Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Predator]

Perhaps that's a rabbit in Gary's hat that he will produce to maximum effect at the appropriate time - rather than disclosing his source and evidence to someone on the Internet?

Just a thought.Or maybe he made it up?

Just a thought.

[BonnieShels]

Perhaps that's a rabbit in Gary's hat that he will produce to maximum effect at the appropriate time - rather than disclosing his source and evidence to someone on the Internet?

Just a thought.

You are putting too much faith in Gary's ability I would say. Gary strikes me (and unlike you I don't know the guy and only have his public utterances to base this on) as the sort of guy who couldn't wait to produce the rabbit. No way he would allow it to stay in his pants that long.

[Not Brazil]

Or maybe he made it up?

Just a thought.

Time will tell, no doubt.

[Not Brazil]

You are putting too much faith in Gary's ability I would say. Gary strikes me (and unlike you I don't know the guy and only have his public utterances to base this on) as the sort of guy who couldn't wait to produce the rabbit. No way he would allow it to stay in his pants that long.

He's a good card player.

[BonnieShels]

He's a good card player.

Snap or Old Maid?

[ifk101]

Perhaps that's a rabbit in Gary's hat that he will produce to maximum effect at the appropriate time - rather than disclosing his source and evidence to someone on the Internet?

Just a thought.

Let's get this straight. Your friend Gary has evidence that certain parties are pressurising, abusing, intimidating and maybe even threatening players to represent the FAI in international competition. And he is keeping it to himself for the most opportune time. And you believe this.

[Not Brazil]

Let's get this straight. Your friend Gary has evidence that certain parties are pressurising, abusing, intimidating and maybe even threatening players to represent the FAI in international competition. And he is keeping it to himself for the most opportune time. And you believe this.

Let's get this straight - I offered an opinion as to why Gary may not wish to disclose such information to people, like Danny, on the Internet.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I am not privy to any evidence to back up such claims - however, if Gary were to say he has such evidence, I would be inclined to believe him...based on past experiences.

Whether you believe that, frankly, is irrelevant

[Not Brazil]

Snap or Old Maid?

Jack change it.

[ifk101]

Let's get this straight - I offered an opinion as to why Gary may not wish to disclose such information to people, like Danny, on the Internet.

Quite a far fetched opinion you formed .....


Nothing more, nothing less.

I wouldn't dismiss accussations of players being forced or pressurised into playing for the FAI against their open free will so lightly.


I am not privy to any evidence to back up such claims

Of course not.


- however, if Gary were to say he has such evidence, I would be inclined to believe him...based on past experiences.

Gary says he has such evidence. Page 123 of this thread.


Whether you believe that, frankly, is irrelevant

I'll bear that in mind. ;)

[geysir]

I'd concur with Danny, the evidence is that the NI fan reps have stepped over fully into the realms of the sinister conspiracy.
The type of bogeyman adventures that a 7 year old would find believable, entertained and excited.
Hard to credit some of stuff that once passed as being very believable to a 7 year old's fantasy.

[Not Brazil]

Quite a far fetched opinion you formed .....

You think it's "far fetched" that Gary would not wish to disclose his source or evidence to some random ROI fan on the Internet?

Right.

[Not Brazil]

I wouldn't dismiss accussations of players being forced or pressurised into playing for the FAI against their open free will so lightly.

Gary says he has such evidence. Page 123 of this thread



And I don't think Gary would dismiss such allegations lightly either.

As I stated - if he says he has evidence, then I'd be inclined to believe him.

If/When and how he discloses the source and evidence is entirely within his gift.

[ifk101]

You think it's "far fetched" that Gary would not wish to disclose his source or evidence to some random ROI fan on the Internet?

Gary had no problem in making the accussations. Yet was unwilling to follow through in backing them up. Wonder why? :rolleyes:


Right.

Left?


And I don't think Gary would dismiss such allegations lightly either.

As I stated - if he says he has evidence, then I'd be inclined to believe him.

If/When and how he discloses the source and evidence is entirely within his gift.

Gary's playing to his audience.

[Not Brazil]

Gary had no problem in making the accussations. Yet was unwilling to follow through in backing them up. Wonder why? :rolleyes:


Maybe he will back them up - when it suits him to do so, and to whom he wishes to do so?

If he's making it up, there's nothing for you to be getting exercised about.

[Predator]

Maybe he will back them up - when it suits him to do so, and to whom he wishes to do so?So, basically, the alleged victim is a mere pawn (or Jack). You think that McAllister, the main man at the AONISC, might be willing to exploit the alleged victim's plight in an attempt to strengthen his argument?

Surely the player's welfare should come first and so, he should act in a mature :o manner and act in the player's interests, not his own selfish interests.

[Not Brazil]

So, basically, the alleged victim is a mere pawn (or Jack). You think that McAllister, the main man at the AONISC, might be willing to exploit the alleged victim's plight in an attempt to strengthen his argument?


Like you, I'll wait and see what transpires.

I don't answer for (or to) Gary Mac.

I am unaware of the specific nature of the allegations and I am unaware of the numbers of players involved or their identity(ies).

[SwanVsDalton]

I am not privy to any evidence to back up such claims - however, if Gary were to say he has such evidence, I would be inclined to believe him...based on past experiences.

Whether you believe that, frankly, is irrelevant

He has no evidence. It's a fantasy. Let's not get caught up in this non-story - it would be fairly evident around Derry if this was the case, far more evident than it would be in, say, IFA HQ or Gary McAllister's bedroom.


Having originally decided to side with the South, did Doherty ever formally let the IFA know that he would be interested in playing for Northern Ireland?

IF you're suggesting Doherty would've received a call-up by now simply by dint of declaring, you are being disingenuous. He clearly hasn't been on the radar imo. It's simply my belief NI have approached players when they're good enough/in need of a player and I believe Doherty is one who should have been considered by now. That's all.

[Not Brazil]

He has no evidence.
IF you're suggesting Doherty would've received a call-up by now simply by dint of declaring, you are being disingenuous.

If you say he has no evidence, I respect your right to hold that opinion.

I don't know if he does, or doesn't.

Regarding Doherty, basically you're saying he didn't formally advise the IFA that he would consider a call up - having previously nailed his colours to the FAI mast.

[Not Brazil]

it would be fairly evident around Derry if this was the case


Why would it only be evident in Derry?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Don't always agree with Sv.D., but he's totally on the money here. And Thanks to him for that.

Gary Mac sounds a yet another aranoid eejit, along with yer man Gamble.
And they're the OWB 'intelligensia' ?

Truth is, it's got to the stage where NB and even, er, our currently absent Rotund friend are seen as 'moderate voices of reason'. :rolleyes:
Which in at least one case, probably doesn't say much for the rest...

[Not Brazil]

'moderate voices of reason'. :rolleyes:
Which in at least one case, probably doesn't say much for the rest...

Don't worry AB - it's not a label you're ever likely to be accused of.

[BonnieShels]

Jack change it.

Funny, down here we call that "Switch".
How apt.

[SwanVsDalton]

Why would it only be evident in Derry?

Small town syndrome not to mention the proliferation of (generally reliable) channels of info between Derry fans means it would be evident if true. Put simply too many know James and his family personally for an instance like that to elude them but, somehow, not Gary McAllister.

[Olé Olé]

Regarding Doherty, basically you're saying he didn't formally advise the IFA that he would consider a call up - having previously nailed his colours to the FAI mast.

Michael O'Neill expressly stated that he was going to consider anyone eligible for NI. I'm sure if Doherty was on O'Neill's radar he'd have contacted Doherty, in the same manner that James McClean and Marc Wilson were.

Whatever about the evidence that Gary McAllister may or may not have, there are quotes attributable to the likes of Armstrong and O'Neill to show that they've contacted players who have declared for ROI; the aforementioned pair, as well as Anton Rodgers. If this evidence actually does exist and McAllister has it, then not to produce it while these quotes are easily accessible could well be a shot in the foot, could it not?

[Not Brazil]

Funny, down here we call that "Switch".
How apt.

We were on the same wavelength then.

[Not Brazil]

Small town syndrome not to mention the proliferation of (generally reliable) channels of info between Derry fans means it would be evident if true. Put simply too many know James and his family personally for an instance like that to elude them but, somehow, not Gary McAllister.

So you presume the allegations relate solely to Derry based players?

[Predator]

DUP's Diane Dodds said she "highlighted the Northern Ireland player eligibility issue" recently: https://twitter.com/#!/DianeDoddsMEP/status/165009288543223809

I can't seem to access the video. Perhaps she's taking a leaf out of McAllister and Gamble's book and blocking me?

[Not Brazil]

If this evidence actually does exist and McAllister has it, then not to produce it while these quotes are easily accessible could well be a shot in the foot, could it not?

I'm not sure what quotes attributable to Messrs Armstrong & O'Neill have to do with the discussion, in the context of Gary's allegations?

[DannyInvincible]

DUP's Diane Dodds said she "highlighted the Northern Ireland player eligibility issue" recently: https://twitter.com/#!/DianeDoddsMEP/status/165009288543223809

I can't seem to access the video. Perhaps she's taking a leaf out of McAllister and Gamble's book and blocking me?

Mentioned it here: http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1570843&viewfull=1#post1570843

The video may work in Internet Explorer for you. Didn't work in Google Chrome for me initially. Needless to say, Dodds was well and truly barking up a wrong tree in relation to her supposed interpretation of part AH of the Report on the European Dimension in Sport:


"[W]hereas national teams have a key role to play, international competitions continue to constitute a reference model and action should be taken against 'naturalisations of convenience'."


Of course, Irish nationals born north of the border are Irish nationals as of birthright; they're not naturalised Irish nationals, never mind being naturalised nationals of convenience.

[DannyInvincible]

Perhaps that's a rabbit in Gary's hat that he will produce to maximum effect at the appropriate time - rather than disclosing his source and evidence to someone on the Internet?

Just a thought.

The thing is, he was rather ambiguous and left the allegations open-ended (imaginations can run wilder that way), but if illegal threats have been made or intimidation has occurred, he'd be best reporting such behaviour to the police - if player welfare really is a genuine concern of his - along with any evidence he might have, rather than throwing me innuendo on Twitter and then running off to hide. Likewise for Gamble, rather than making silly threats about reporting Foot.ie to the police.

I think McAllister was bluffing and resorted to making vague accusations as he ran out of fuel in the argument. I suspect he's making a bigger deal than is warranted out of something like a community representative offering words of support or advice to a player mulling over a switch, if even that happened. Much ado about nothing and little to do with the FAI. Ultimately, is the suggestion that James McClean has opted to play for the FAI against his will?


So, in summary.

If you have represented an Association in only friendlies, you don't have to "request a change" in order to represent another Association for which you are eligible?

In other words, "switching" doesn't happen in that scenario?

That appears to be so. James Wallace and Gerard Kinsella, for example, represented the FAI in a non-competitive under-age fixture but Predator is fairly certain they weren't even eligible at all (http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1568994&viewfull=1#post1568994).


So you presume the allegations relate solely to Derry based players?

Sam Gamble stated the following in the comments section of his blog:


"This would not be the correct place to state some of the fairly reliable rumours that came out of the Maiden City around the McLean [sic] issue."

[ArdeeBhoy]

Don't worry AB - it's not a label you're ever likely to be accused of.

Fine.
Clearly though, research, is not a strong local attribute. Well in one part of the community!
;)


Michael O'Neill expressly stated that he was going to consider anyone eligible for NI.

Wouldn't that say, be pretty much anyone born on the island under the GFA?
And the IFA's determination to, er, widen their search...

[Predator]

Mentioned it here: http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1570843&viewfull=1#post1570843
Cheers. I'm surprised that I missed that. I wonder who advised her to raise FIFA's eligibility rules (it is not an "eligibility issue" - that would suggest that it's ongoing, but we've gained closure)?

[ifk101]

Maybe he will back them up - when it suits him to do so, and to whom he wishes to do so?

Sure.


If he's making it up, there's nothing for you to be getting exercised about.

Injustice, immoral, integrity ..... these are words your friend Gary scribbles in his demands of others. I'd urge your friend Gary to follow his own example and do right by his position.

[Not Brazil]

Fine.
Clearly though, research, is not a strong local attribute. Well in one part of the community!
;)

Wouldn't that say, be pretty much anyone born on the island under the GFA?
And the IFA's determination to, er, widen their search...

No, it would not be "pretty much anyone born on the island under the GFA."

In spite of having it explained to you on at least one occasion previously, you still don't grasp a basic tenet of eligibility to play for Northern Ireland ie. it is a prerequisite that you have British Citizenship.

Could I suggest you research the CAS conclusion more thoroughly?

[Not Brazil]

Injustice, immoral, integrity ..... these are words your friend Gary scribbles in his demands of others. I'd urge your friend Gary to follow his own example and do right by his position.

As I am unaware of his alleged source, and the nature of any supporting evidence, I am not in a position to comment on how he could do right by his position.

However, it is quite plausible that his source (and evidence) might be a player (s), and that he is respecting their wishes at this point in time.

It's certainly a massive allegation to make, with potentially huge fallout, if proven.

If he is making it up, and it is proven that he is making it up, his position within the AONISC would be, in my opinion, untenable.

I don't believe Gary is that stupid, based on my dealings with him.

What he will do, as he always does, is what he believes to be best for the future of the Northern Ireland international teams.

Anyway, "urge him" directly, if you wish.

[ifk101]

As I am unaware of his alleged source, and the nature of any supporting evidence, I am not in a position to comment on how he could do right by his position.

If you truly believe his accussations to have foundation which you say you do, you should be able to grasp the serious of his accussations and the need to address this asap. Nobody wants players "switching" under the circumstances your friend Gary says he is privy to.


However, it is quite plausible that his source (and evidence) might be a player (s), and that he is respecting their wishes at this point in time.

Sure.


It's certainly a massive allegation to make, with potentially huge fallout, if proven.

If he is making it up, and it is proven that he is making it up, his position within the AONISC would be, in my opinion, untenable.

Absolutely.


I don't believe Gary is that stupid, based on my dealings with him.

What he will do, as he always does, is what he believes to be best for the future of the Northern Ireland international teams.

There is no doubt method behind Gary's madness, and why he won't follow through with his accussations.


Anyway, "urge him" directly, if you wish.

Gary's no friend of mine.

[Not Brazil]

If you truly believe his accussations to have foundation which you say you do, you should be able to grasp the serious of his accussations and the need to address this asap. Nobody wants players "switching" under the circumstances your friend Gary says he is privy to.


Yes, of course I have grasped the seriousness of the allegations....that's why I said:

"it's certainly a massive allegation to make".

Gary will deal with it as he see's fit. I would imagine if he has sources, and they have requested anonymity at this time, that he would wholly respect that.

If/When the exact details of the allegations emerge into the public domain, that's the time for discussing them.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No, it would not be "pretty much anyone born on the island under the GFA."

In spite of having it explained to you on at least one occasion previously, you still don't grasp a basic tenet of eligibility to play for Northern Ireland ie. it is a prerequisite that you have British Citizenship.

So how do you explain the IFA sniffing round anybody and everybody, out of pure desperation then? And that the GFA allows for duel citizenship.Or easier access to it.

And clearly you've forgotten how unselective the Brits are when it comes to handing out passports. Especially when it comes to their sports teams...

Though I guess it would help even more so if you're a white South African!

[Closed Account]

ArdeeBhoy, are you suggesting that someone born in Connemara or Dingle is eligible for NI under the GFA?


Wouldn't that say, be pretty much anyone born on the island under the GFA?
And the IFA's determination to, er, widen their search...
If you are, I suggest you pull your oar in, you're not going to win that one.

[DannyInvincible]

If he is making it up, and it is proven that he is making it up, his position within the AONISC would be, in my opinion, untenable.

His Twitter profile does contain the following with attached proviso:


"Press Officer and Chairman of the Amalgamation of Official Northern Ireland Supporters' Clubs. Views are my own."


But, I do agree; the nature of these allegations are too serious for him to admit to having made them up for the sake of an argument and not be held accountable for that.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No JD, I'm suggesting they'll use whatever grounds they can to recruit players, however tenuous. Which in many cases they're entitled to do, but their hypocrisy is staggering. Not least of the fans.

[ArdeeBhoy]

the nature of these allegations are too serious for him to admit to having made them up for the sake of an argument and not be held accountable for that.

Or the paranoia is too deep-rooted...

[punkrocket]

Perhaps that's a rabbit in Gary's hat that he will produce to maximum effect at the appropriate time - rather than disclosing his source and evidence to someone on the Internet?

Just a thought.

Macallisterian intrigue.

[geysir]

Could the Gary & Sam stage act be taking their cue from this politician?

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_5XvBYfxU_dM/TVMALiAmozI/AAAAAAAAQV4/F5dr6nBJZOo/Joe McCarthy holding list of Communists[24].png

PS. The fact that Soviet spies were rampant in the US State Department and not purged until Reagan was given a list of their names from French intelligence, does in no way vindicate McCarthy's list, it actually proves McCarty's list was bogus :)

[SwanVsDalton]

So you presume the allegations relate solely to Derry based players?

I got slightly mixed up in my thinking - Sam had named McClean, McAllister hadn't. Having said that the temptation to presume the allegations relate to McClean is very strong since he's the current eligibility poster boy. Regardless I was referring solely to McClean.

[ifk101]

I got slightly mixed up in my thinking - Sam had named McClean, McAllister hadn't. Having said that the temptation to presume the allegations relate to McClean is very strong since he's the current eligibility poster boy. Regardless I was referring solely to McClean.

It's safe to assume the allegations relate to McClean turning down the North's call in August 2011. What happened was as follows. A crack team of FAI Maiden City sympathisers got wind of Nigel's intentions to call on McClean and subsequently set about a distasteful process of abuse and intimidation to which McClean was left with no option but to turn Nigel down and declare "My dream has always been to play for the Republic of Ireland". In a subsequent contact between McClean and Gary AONISC, Gary AONISC became privy to the FAI's Maiden City crack team of abusers and intimidators and their role in poaching McClean to the dark side and the adoration of foot.ie members, a vile site of sectarian filled vitriolic hatred repute. But being a man of integrity, justice and high morals, Gary vowed to McClean not to reveal the duress he is under, evident by his outstanding performances for Sunderland FC to date, but rather to save this information for a more opportune time.

[DannyInvincible]

Just e-mailed the following letter to the Derry Journal, Belfast Telegraph and Irish News in relation to Diane Dodds' silly comments in the European Parliament the other day with the hope of having it published. Thought the comments were worth highlighting to a broader audience if possible.


Sir,

At a sitting of the European Parliament on the 1st of February, 2012, Diane Dodds MEP of the DUP raised the so-called Northern Ireland player eligibility issue within the context of citation AH of the parliament's Report on the European Dimension in Sport. This is in spite of the fact that formal closure was brought to this footballing dispute between the Irish Football Association and the Football Association of Ireland a year and a half ago by the Court of Arbitration for Sport in the July 2010 case of Daniel Kearns.

Citation AH of the aforementioned report reads:

"[W]hereas national teams have a key role to play, international competitions continue to constitute a reference model and action should be taken against 'naturalisations of convenience'."

It was disappointing to listen to a European representative for this part of the world attempt to dismiss as "naturalisations of convenience" the Irish nationality of players born north of the border who opt to play for the FAI. Irish nationals born north of the border are Irish nationals as of birthright; they do not fall under the category of naturalised Irish nationals, never mind their nationality amounting to "naturalisations of convenience". Referring to their Irish nationality in the context of citation AH was thus insulting and wholly inappropriate. Dodds could, of course, plead ignorance as to the nature of the nationality of these players, but she is, after all, an educated woman with years of experience in politics, so one cannot help but suspect she was setting out to broadly offend by her comments.

Over a decade on from the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, is it not long past the time that certain public servants should have acknowledged the undisputed legitimacy of the national identity of the largest minority community north of the border?

Yours.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Trouble is you'd confuse half the readers of The BT.
Not to mention certain others...

[Not Brazil]

So how do you explain the IFA sniffing round anybody and everybody, out of pure desperation then?

The IFA have not been "sniffing round anybody and everybody".

They have been seeking out players that are eligible to play for Northern Ireland - this, by definition, means British Citizens otherwise eligible to play for Northern Ireland, as per FIFA Statutes.

Haven't a clue what point, in context, you were trying to make re: dual nationality, passports and the GFA.

[Not Brazil]

No JD, I'm suggesting they'll use whatever grounds they can to recruit players, however tenuous. Which in many cases they're entitled to do,

More waffle.

The IFA attempt to recruit players who are eligible to play for Northern Ireland.

In the case of British Citizens not born in Northern Ireland, the relevent FIFA statutes must be complied with...parent, grandparent, etc.

In ALL cases, they are entitled to recruit eligible players.