Eligibility Rules, Okay

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why wait until February?
Surely if it's any month when they start to get excited, it's when it gets to March...

[Newryrep]

The anthem issue has made it onto Sky News (http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16118511)

comments section is pretty funny, though not half as funny as the BT one

[Predator]

Countries have to agree. My point is the one week u dont want is Fa youth cup final week as u have high chance of irish player involvement. Do you think it is accidental that the brits dont play qualifiers in the fa youth cup week? This is surely Doolins responsibility you cant expect some official in the fai to know when an fa youth cup final is. He was not left out of one squad he was left out of the squad for the finals and then again this season the squad for the qualifiers. I think Doolin is makin it clear McGinty wont play again under him. Hopefully the kid does not let that kind of bitterness put him off.Two players who were also dropped for the finals, namely Brady and Duffy, subsequently made the step up to under 21 level under King and have been flourishing. McGinty should bury the hatchet with Doolin and instead focus on getting himself into Noel King's squads if he really wants to play for Ireland.

[Charlie Darwin]

Countries have to agree. My point is the one week u dont want is Fa youth cup final week as u have high chance of irish player involvement. Do you think it is accidental that the brits dont play qualifiers in the fa youth cup week? This is surely Doolins responsibility you cant expect some official in the fai to know when an fa youth cup final is. He was not left out of one squad he was left out of the squad for the finals and then again this season the squad for the qualifiers. I think Doolin is makin it clear McGinty wont play again under him. Hopefully the kid does not let that kind of bitterness put him off.
He's played for Doolin since the Euros! You've imagined this entire thing.

[BonnieShels]

comments section is pretty funny, though not half as funny as the BT one

Heaven save us.

[DannyInvincible]

You have to love this line:



That's right. All them there nationalists are only supporting Ireland because they have qualified for the Euros. The breathtaking ignorance is unbelievable. This entire issue is ridiculous anyway and it's just this months issue. Come February there'll be a new angle to digest.

Christ on a bike.

It's a strange article that appears to confuse two separate issues as one and the same. I don't know if it's intentional or just carelessness given the fact Ian Woods himself is originally from Belfast. Some of the comments only compound the apparent ignorance on display in the article itself. These, for example:


as part of the united kingdom should they wish to have a local anthem as do the welsh and scots when they represent their country thats ok. when they represent UK&NI then the national anthem should stay.


"God save the King/Queen" is the anthem of the Union, not England (Which is "Land of hope and glory")

Frankly, both England and NI should consider changing!


How someone can supposedly be 'deeply offended' be a 40 second song which in essence is tribute to a family who have served our country well over the years is beyond me. GSTQ


In the irish rugby team there is catholic & protestants play and they stand for the soldier song, why can't the catholics & protestants stand for the Queen in Northern Ireland matches or is it just one sided? The catholic way or no way? You should be proud of your county whatever side you come from .... GOD SAVE THE QUEEN......


Solve the issue English national anthem- land of hope and glory, give Ulster its own & keep God Save The Queen as a British anthem for state occasions nad those few events when we all participate as a country - like strikes


This constant fragmentation makes a complete mockery of the term "UNITED KINGDOM".

Erm, to use such terms, the ultimate point of Irish nationalism kind of is to make "a complete mockery" of the present conception of the UK...

The way the article attempts to explain the situation by comparison with Scotland and Wales having their own anthems would appear to demonstrate an essential misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the specific issue raised by McVeigh and paves the way for such clueless assumptions as those highlighted above. When it refers to "Irish nationalists" after having described NI as "the Irish", an external reader with little background knowledge could be forgiven for assuming this was a reference to what we might understand as something completely different; something mildly or loosely akin to loyalist Ulster nationalism (except not so explicitly separatist). Certain NI fans might not associate with 'God Save the Queen' because they'd rather an anthem that best represents or strengthens the identity of NI (as a constituent country within the UK) irrespective of what those from a nationalist background might think, whereas Irish nationalists don't associate with 'God Save the Queen' because they simply don't identify culturally as British nor do they see NI as "their country". What the article fails to emphasise is this vital distinction; that Irish nationalists do not channel their identity through NI or the UK at all. Rather, they channel their identity through the idea of an independent united Ireland or Irishness as a national identity (rather than a regional/subsidiary British identity) as espoused by the state south of the border. That's my reading of it anyway.

I'm not sure what planet that Mark McIntosh chap who makes the "it's only 40 seconds" remark is living on. Things like sentiment, identity, expression and personal integrity are essential elements to what makes people human. Symbolism is very important to people, and especially so in NI where countless lives have been lost down through the years over the constitutional status of the place and the various symbols related to that. Someone (especially a journalist) from Lisburn shouldn't be so pig ignorant as to why there's a big deal over something like 'God Save the Queen'. As I've said, it makes little difference to me personally as a change of anthem wouldn't make the IFA, as a British association, any less irrelevant than it already is to myself and many people I know, but if the IFA wish to prevent alienating certain nationalists who would otherwise be prepared to play for them, changing the anthem to something more neutral and less explicitly British would probably be something worth considering.

As for the following loaded statements:


The Irish Football Association (IFA) has recruited another former international to act as a mentor to young Catholic players and stop them being poached by their rivals in Dublin.


There are other issues such as the venue and the national flag which are also said to deter nationalists from cheering on the country of their birth.


But, perhaps, the biggest reason they prefer the Republic at the moment has nothing to do with politics.

The Republic have just qualified for the Euro 2012 finals, while Northern Ireland have slumped to 89th in the Fifa rankings and are currently looking for a new manager.

... Good grief. Way to trivialise the national identity of a couple hundred thousand people and decades/centuries of ethno-political division!

[bwagner]

Uncle Tom Armstrong in the Sunday Life about how God save the queen never bugged him and how he even whistled the sash many a time...He is just a total fool and lick ass

[Sullivinho]

Frankly, both England and NI should consider changing!

It'd be gas if the English ditched it first and NI became that kid who carried their goth phase on a bit longer than is cringingly acceptable.

[geysir]

Uncle Tom Armstrong in the Sunday Life about how God save the queen never bugged him and how he even whistled the sash many a time...He is just a total fool and lick ass
'The Sash' is alright, a good tune and a good song.
About the only loyalist folk song I know, maybe there are no others.

[Charlie Darwin]

I randomly came across this gem today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAztkmBLaAY

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAztkmBLaAY)Nothing screams "No Surrender!" quite like a Bette Midler tune.

[Fixer82]

'The Sash' is alright, a good tune and a good song.
About the only loyalist folk song I know, maybe there are no others.

It's the same air as 'Roddy McCorley' and 'Sean Sabhat from Garryowen' which is certainly not a loyalist song!

[geysir]

Is there more than one Irish air?
someone should tell Big Tom.




I randomly came across this gem today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAztkmBLaAY

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAztkmBLaAY)Nothing screams "No Surrender!" quite like a Bette Midler tune.

That's closer to mopery, the Bigot Blues genre.

"Some say our religion is going down
There'll be no church parades, no oranges marches, no demonstrations, no IFA
And ssssoooooon they'll have their way"

[BonnieShels]

I randomly came across this gem today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAztkmBLaAY

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAztkmBLaAY)Nothing screams "No Surrender!" quite like a Bette Midler tune.

that is painful stuff. I'd even have Ireland's Call over that and that's saying something. I have to admire the imagination of the "uber-Prod" as they imagine the Fenian Armageddon!

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's a strange article that appears to confuse two separate issues as one and the same. Some of the comments only compound the apparent ignorance on display in the article itself.


The way the article attempts to explain the situation by comparison with Scotland and Wales having their own anthems would appear to demonstrate an essential misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the specific issue raised by McVeigh and paves the way for such clueless assumptions as those highlighted above. When it refers to "Irish nationalists" after having described NI as "the Irish", an external reader with little background knowledge could be forgiven for assuming this was a reference to what we might understand as something completely different; something mildly or loosely akin to loyalist Ulster nationalism (except not so explicitly separatist). Certain NI fans might not associate with 'God Save the Queen' because they'd rather an anthem that best represents or strengthens the identity of NI (as a constituent country within the UK) irrespective of what those from a nationalist background might think, whereas Irish nationalists don't associate with 'God Save the Queen' because they simply don't identify culturally as British nor do they see NI as "their country". What the article fails to emphasise is this vital distinction; that Irish nationalists do not channel their identity through NI or the UK at all. Rather, they channel their identity through the idea of an independent united Ireland or Irishness as a national identity (rather than a regional/subsidiary British identity) as espoused by the state south of the border. That's my reading of it anyway.

I'm not sure what planet that Mark McIntosh chap who makes the "it's only 40 seconds" remark is living on. Things like sentiment, identity, expression and personal integrity are essential elements to what makes people human. Symbolism is very important to people, and especially so in NI where countless lives have been lost down through the years over the constitutional status of the place and the various symbols related to that. Someone (especially a journalist) from Lisburn shouldn't be so pig ignorant as to why there's a big deal over something like 'God Save the Queen'. As I've said, it makes little difference to me personally as a change of anthem wouldn't make the IFA, as a British association, any less irrelevant than it already is to myself and many people I know, but if the IFA wish to prevent alienating certain nationalists who would otherwise be prepared to play for them, changing the anthem to something more neutral and less explicitly British would probably be something worth considering.

Unfortunately DI, you're making the rather big and even simplistic assumption about a wider cultural group whose knowledge of history, geography and even the language they espouse is highly questionable, if not entirely dubious.


It's the same air as 'Roddy McCorley' and 'Sean Sabhat from Garryowen' which is certainly not a loyalist song!

Having sung both "The Sash" (with specially adapted lyrics!) and "Sean South" rather more frequently, in past years I can assure you not even the bass line is the same!!

[SolitudeRed]

All the talk of loyalist tunes and Windsor park reminds me of when I was heading into the ground in summer last year to see Cliftonville play the croatian side HNK Cibalia in the Europa league. I was about 5 mins late and as I walked up the grim looking barbed wire tunnel that was mentioned already there was a group of half a dozen or so kids all about 10 years old and presumably from the loacal area were standing in the adjoining olympia leisure centre grounds and were singing 'f**k the pope and the IRA' and throwing stones at the fence as I walked along and after I had reached the end of the tunnel a bottle they threw over the wall landed on a pile of gravel/stones just beside me. Whilst hardly a major incident it was a depressing reminder of the problems that still persist in Northern Ireland even amongst those that aren't old enough to know the troubles and also that the area around windsor park is hardly neutral/welcoming for all sections in the North.

[Fixer82]

Having sung both "The Sash" (with specially adapted lyrics!) and "Sean South" rather more frequently, in past years I can assure you not even the bass line is the same!!

You're dead right. My apologies. I'm mixing it up with another song though that definitely is the same air and is an uber-prod song.

[SolitudeRed]

This is the cringiest of loyalist tunes I think, its about the Red Hand Commandos and is to the tune of rhinestone cowboy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Z87lrT7yE

[ArdeeBhoy]

You're dead right. My apologies. I'm mixing it up with another song though that definitely is the same air and is an uber-prod song.

No bother. Though mildly perturbed by your knowledge of the latter!
;)

[Newryrep]

Delaney on Radio Ulster this morning stating that the FAI will not be proactive in recruiting northern born players and its up to the player to make themselves available - no problem with that myself

[DannyInvincible]

Delaney on Radio Ulster this morning stating that the FAI will not be proactive in recruiting northern born players and its up to the player to make themselves available - no problem with that myself

What show/time was he on?

[DannyInvincible]

Found it here from 2:54 onwards: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15935932.stm

Transcribed the interview below.


Mark Carruthers: "The issue of new players is an interesting one and you'll be aware of the fact that there'll be many people in NI who think that, perhaps, you've got your eye down there on too many players who could play for NI. The IFA, of course, has got Gerry Armstrong seeking to persuade young players in NI to stay and play for the NI team. How much of a hot potato do you think that issue is?"

John Delaney: "Well, first of all, I want to say we've got a very good relationship with the IFA. There is, of course, the issue of eligibility which only comes up when we meet. My own view and the FAI's view is that it's really up to the player; whoever the player wants to play for, we've got to respect his or her choice."

MC: "Yeah, but you are overtly trying to persuade players to play for the Republic, are you?"

JD: "Oh, I wouldn't agree with that at all. I would not agree with that at all. I think if a player makes it known to us that he wants to play for the Republic, then we'll look at him, but we're certainly not on a recruitment campaign."

MC: "Yeah, well, why not, John? Of course, there are some people who support the Republic of Ireland who would live in NI and they would say that's precisely what you should be doing!"

JD: "No, I think it's up to the player. The player decides that he wants to play for the Republic or the IFA. Then, it's a matter for the association to get involved but only at that stage. I don't think any player should be pressurised into playing for either country or whoever it is. This applies across Europe for different countries as well. It's up to the player."

MC: "But the IFA is aggressively going out - I'm sure Gerry Armstrong wouldn't use the word "aggressively" - but is in an up-front fashion going out there and targeting players who could play for either team saying, 'We want you to play for NI.' You're saying, you're sitting back and waiting until the player makes a decision and then falling into line; different approach..."

JD: "Yeah, different approach, but it's up to the IFA, and I respect the IFA if they want to appoint Gerry Armstrong if they want to do that. That's a matter for themselves. Our approach is quite simple. What you want is, you want the players who want to play for you, Mark. You don't want to coerce them or make them play for us. That's our approach and our approach is very simple; if a player declares for the Republic of Ireland, then we'll assess them and bring them into the squad if he's up to sufficient quality but we're certainly not going out, 'We want you to come and play for us.' It's a matter for the player to make his or her decision and at that stage then, we'll take it from there."

Not a bad interview. I'll be honest; I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be actively seeking out eligible Irish nationals everywhere, irrespective of where they were born on the island of Ireland or around the world, especially given the IFA's severe breach of the accord agreed between Jim Boyce and Bernard O'Byrne in 1999 by dragging Daniel Kearns off to CAS. Still, we don't want to be coercing players into playing for us; we want players who want to play for us and if that's the official rationale, I won't make too big a deal out of it. It's a confident and secure approach and makes the IFA's current approach appear rather insecure and desperate in comparison. Interesting to hear Delaney's thoughts on the matter and the direction in which Carruthers takes the interview inadvertently turns the tables on the IFA in a way, which is somewhat amusing given the accusations they and NI fans have been flinging at the FAI of late. One thing though, is Delaney correct in asserting that the FAI don't actively recruit any dual nationals? At least, that appears to be what he's saying when he mentions their approach applying across Europe, or did I pick him up incorrectly?

[Olé Olé]

Yeah, that seems to be what Delaney is insisting and I think there may be a few cases still active where this would see an interesting application. For instance, Tierney and Pilkington at Norwich. Tardelli quite openly states the interest he has in the two players, one of whom has never appeared for Ireland prior to this and the other who appeared for the under 21's, with speculation that he was unaware of his eligibility. The question would be has Tierney expressed an interest to someone in the FAI that he would be willing to appear for the Republic? Or are the FAI pursuing him?

I suppose in the instance of players such as Tierney, O'Hara and Noble where the players have seemingly improbable chances of England call-ups, the distinction between the FAI every attempting to pursue these players and players who have represented the North couldn't be clearer.

Also, there are examples of English-born players eligibility or interest in playing for the Republic being expressed by way of an intermediary, such as Kevin Doyle, Mick McCarthy and Shane Long in recent times in relation to Stearman and Alex Pearce. Perhaps the reason why players like Stearman haven't received a call-up when Ireland became aware of his eligibility long ago is because the FAI don't throw the passport at him and tell Trap 'Call him up!' and perhaps do wait for the player to pro-actively show interest and/or committment.

Somewhat speculative because I don't know what goes on behind closed door, only what is reported.

[SwanVsDalton]

Gerry Armstrong encourages debate over anthem (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15936970.stm).

At least someone at the IFA isn't take the usual dismissive line and recognises there's a need for debate - know that's Gerry's job at this point but still. He does say he doesn't see why it's an issue - really? - but at least he's listening to what people are telling him.

However the pars in the middle of the article appear to be when the eligibility row finally tumbled into the parody void:

"Armstrong has held informal discussions with Snow Patrol songwriter and Northern Ireland fan Gary Lightbody about the anthem issue. "I know Gary Lightbody and it was a possible way out in terms of what we could do. We looked at the Scottish solutions and the Welsh situations where they have their own national anthems."

Never mind nationalists, will anyone declare if having to listen to Lightbody's moist middle rock before a game?

[Charlie Darwin]

Perhaps they should think about changing their colours to beige to go with it. Green being a nationalist colour and all.

[TrapAPony]

Not a bad interview. I'll be honest; I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be actively seeking out eligible Irish nationals everywhere, irrespective of where they were born on the island of Ireland or around the world

Exactly. If the likes of Jack Charlton didn't take the '''We want you to come and play for us'' attitude we wouldn't be heard or tell of now and certainly wouldn't have qualified for any tournament - IMO. Don't see why Trapattoni can't go on a mini recruitment drive to get the best squad he possibly can.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think it's the same thing. We're attracting players from NI at underage level, but any English-born players we bring in will probably be older and more likely to win a place in the squad for the finals. Any NI-born player who fits the profile of Tierney/Pilkington/O'Hara would have played for their full team by now.

[geysir]

Not a bad interview. I'll be honest; I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be actively seeking out eligible Irish nationals everywhere, irrespective of where they were born on the island of Ireland or around the world, especially given the IFA's severe breach of the accord agreed between Jim Boyce and Bernard O'Byrne in 1999 by dragging Daniel Kearns off to CAS. Still, we don't want to be coercing players into playing for us; we want players who want to play for us and if that's the official rationale, I won't make too big a deal out of it. It's a confident and secure approach and makes the IFA's current approach appear rather insecure and desperate in comparison. Interesting to hear Delaney's thoughts on the matter and the direction in which Carruthers takes the interview inadvertently turns the tables on the IFA in a way, which is somewhat amusing given the accusations they and NI fans have been flinging at the FAI of late. One thing though, is Delaney correct in asserting that the FAI don't actively recruit any dual nationals? At least, that appears to be what he's saying when he mentions their approach applying across Europe, or did I pick him up incorrectly?

I just read what you quoted, Carruthers turned the table on purpose, a standard ploy to extract some ambivalence on Delaney's position.
In general, JD gives a good interview and a good account of himself, as he should do. On the eligibility issue, he has always been sound and diplomatic, at least what I have heard from him.
I'd have full confidence that he'd wipe the floor in any BBC Ni debate with the IFA mopes.

[SwanVsDalton]

I'd have full confidence that he'd wipe the floor in any BBC Ni debate with the IFA mopes.

He would, easy. It's been said a few times around here, but, despite some big problems with his regime (particularly regarding LOI), I'm glad he's on our side. Smooth operator, just a touch of the machiavellian.

[geysir]

Gerry Armstrong encourages debate over anthem (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15936970.stm).

At least someone at the IFA isn't take the usual dismissive line and recognises there's a need for debate - know that's Gerry's job at this point but still. He does say he doesn't see why it's an issue - really? - but at least he's listening to what people are telling him.


The article starts with
Gerry Armstrong believes the Irish FA should consider whether finding a new national anthem to replace God Save the Queen would encourage more nationalists to play for Northern Ireland.

If the IFA want to change the football anthem then they should do so for reasons such as respect etc.
Somehow, seeing as how they have dismissed/procrastinated on this obvious issue for years, it seems to me that the horse has bolted a long time ago.
And now that expressed motivation for change (to stop the exodus), at this stage just sounds cynical.

[SwanVsDalton]

The article starts with
Gerry Armstrong believes the Irish FA should consider whether finding a new national anthem to replace God Save the Queen would encourage more nationalists to play for Northern Ireland.

If the IFA want to change the football anthem then they should do so for reasons such as respect etc.
Somehow, seeing as how they have dismissed/procrastinated on this obvious issue for years, it seems to me that the horse has bolted a long time ago.
And now that expressed motivation for change (to stop the exodus), at this stage just sounds cynical.

I think any sentiment beyond the usual 'problem? what problem?!' is good to hear.

[Scooby Doo]

Cheers Danny for transcribing the interview. Have to say, I'm a little bit miffed that Delaney gave any sort of airtime and credence to the 'issue'. From our perspective, its not broken, so don't fix it. He's now acknowledged their whinging and made a 'pledge' of sorts that the FAI won't actively recruit northern-born Irish nationals - a pledge that I don't think he needed to make. Don't see why we can't co on a recruitment drive/set up camps etc in the north.

And the fact that he has possibly contradicted himself in that of course it is policy for the FAI to seek to recruit eligible players outside of the FAI jurisdiction - its called 'scouting' and every country does it. In any case, the last thing we should be doing is trying to 'ease the fears' of the IFA. They made their bed over the years....

[DannyInvincible]

I don't think it's the same thing. We're attracting players from NI at underage level, but any English-born players we bring in will probably be older and more likely to win a place in the squad for the finals. Any NI-born player who fits the profile of Tierney/Pilkington/O'Hara would have played for their full team by now.

Is it any different in principle though? It's difficult (impossible?) to quantify a player's potential future value to any association. What does age matter? The progression, development and success of our under-age squads are also vital aspects of the FAI's commitment to football in Ireland, just as the success of the senior team is.

Keith Andrews made his debut for us at the age of 28 and has since won 26 senior caps, becoming a mainstay in our central midfield partnership. (I'm ignoring the debate as to whether his place is actually justified for now and looking at this in a functional or utilitarian sense for the sake of argument.) At the age of 25 or 26, whilst playing with MK Dons, many might well have said there was little chance of him ever making our senior squad at all, never mind carving out what has become a very meaningful international career. Say, he'd also been eligible to play for another association and decided to declare for them at that point, I think it would be fair to say we'd have lost out on someone who has become a crucial player for us in hindsight. Of course, any decision he would have made then would all have been within the rules as they currently stand. The same applies to the likes of Alex Bruce. Who knows when he might have come in handy as a future option for us, or as back-up at least? Or the likes of Lee Camp. England have long had trouble in the goalkeeping position and who's to know when a "crisis" might have forced England to look further down the pecking order?

In that sense and in principle, I don't think the FAI contacting the likes of Marc Tierney would be any different from them contacting the likes of Shane Ferguson. It's all above board and within the remit accorded to us by the regulations currently in place. Plus, it's not as if the IFA have been unwilling to select players like Ryan Brobbel, Caolan Lavery and Johnny Gorman (none of them yet 20 years of age) who have also been part of the youth selections of other associations. Johnny Gorman, for example, played for our under-16s before representing the IFA at the same level.

[ifk101]

JD isn't 100% honest as the FAI did approach Shane Ferguson through Mick Martin. Mick Martin played with and coached at Newcastle United so how "active" and "official" the approach was is open to interpretation.

[geysir]

JD isn't 100% honest as the FAI did approach Shane Ferguson through Mick Martin. Mick Martin played with and coached at Newcastle United so how "active" and "official" the approach was is open to interpretation.
Mick Martin is hired by the FAI to scout. Approaching a player to find out the story and trying to persuade a player to switch/declare are 2 different things.
Delaney said the FAI don't try and persuade or coerce players to change allegiance.

[Predator]

The main thrust of what he's saying though is that contrary to Gerry Armstrong and IFA fans' scaremongering, the FAI is not aggressively pursuing players (nets optional). They have always respected the players' choices, rather than hounding them in the way that the IFA has.

[DannyInvincible]

Cheers Danny for transcribing the interview. Have to say, I'm a little bit miffed that Delaney gave any sort of airtime and credence to the 'issue'. From our perspective, its not broken, so don't fix it. He's now acknowledged their whinging and made a 'pledge' of sorts that the FAI won't actively recruit northern-born Irish nationals - a pledge that I don't think he needed to make. Don't see why we can't co on a recruitment drive/set up camps etc in the north.

The first two and a half minutes were actually devoted to discussing Trap's new contract. The eligibility issue seemed to arise as a secondary issue, although it was clearly something still very much on Carruthers' agenda for the interview, so presumably Delaney knew it would rear its head. I've no major issue really with what he said as hounding down players isn't the way to go about it. Delaney gave a good account of the FAI's approach and it's difficult for someone on the IFA's side to complain about that. If northern-born players support us and want to play for us, they know what to do. They won't need any cajoling or recruitment drive to convince them of where their heart is already. It's the IFA who obviously feel the need to be initiating PR campaigns; see the recent visits of Nigel "North of Ireland" Worthington and Gerry Armstrong to St. Columb's College in Derry and the latest brouhaha about changing the anthem so as to potentially deter nationalists from declaring for the FAI in future.

Delaney gives mention to the fact that relations with the IFA are cordial and that's obviously something at the forefront of his mind in his dealings with them. Complaining over such a reasonable policy as was outlined by him in the interview would only make one look like an intransigent stuck-in-the-mud out to curb the individual rights of dual national players. It also means the FAI cannot be accused of "poaching" or acting "unfairly" and in a "predatory" fashion, even if I do think such accusations are way wide of the mark myself. I do think it would be helpful if such loaded, insulting and misguided nomenclature could be removed from the debate entirely as it only enables certain individuals to frame the FAI as something they are not. This interview goes some way towards aiding that. The ball is now in the court of detractors of the FAI to desist from engaging in insincerity.

[geysir]

It also means the FAI cannot be accused of "poaching" or acting "unfairly" and in a "predatory" fashion,
Is this where our Predator got his name from?

[Predator]

Is this where our Predator got his name from?No, but that was transposed onto me during my stint over on OWC where I was (get this) accused of being an FAI employee, logging on to check their forum for "Catholic-sounding" names (whatever that is).

[DannyInvincible]

Mick Martin is hired by the FAI to scout. Approaching a player to find out the story and trying to persuade a player to switch/declare are 2 different things.
Delaney said the FAI don't try and persuade or coerce players to change allegiance.

I think that's quite a good distinction. I'm very much in favour of the FAI keeping an eye out on eligible players, ensuring the player is aware of their options and finding out their potential interest to play for us, but if they then appear ambivalent or indifferent to the idea, it would only look desperate trying to hound them into playing for us. That includes the likes of Shane Ferguson and Jamie O'Hara so I can see where Delaney is coming from when he makes the reference to Europe.

[Scooby Doo]

Excellent post DI. Although I'm inclined to think that it is a 'debate' that we should ignore. I'm loath to speak so crassly about something that many people on here (not to mention measured and informed NI posters here such as NB and GR) feel so strongly does warrent discussion and reconcilliation, but as far as I'm concerned, the IFA and the OWC brigade can go f***. They've tried to fabricate that the freedom of choice of young Irish men and women is something negative that exists because of some loophole. Something that I find reprehensible.

Good on 'Gerry the Catholic' if he had no problem singing GSTQ or whistling the Sash or standing to attention to the Union Jack or playing his football in a stadium and an atmosphere that has for decades epitomised the staunchest and ugliest uber-Loyalist and anti-Irish nationalist settlement - but don't try and dress that up now with a big 'Football for All' banner and a clever little ditty by Gary Lightbody and suggest that nationalists should cast aside their natural alliegence totheir country and nation.

[ifk101]

Mick Martin is hired by the FAI to scout. Approaching a player to find out the story and trying to persuade a player to switch/declare are 2 different things.
Delaney said the FAI don't try and persuade or coerce players to change allegiance.

The point JD made is that the FAI willl have a look at a player if the player makes his interest known. This is consistent with an agreement the FAI and the IFA have from 1999. In the case of Shane Ferguson, the FAI made the first approach which is inconsistent with what JD said. However given Mick Martin's connections to Newcastle United, this approach could simply have been an innocent crossing of paths. Shane Ferguson didn't give a definite answer and there are no indications the FAI subsequently sought to persuade or coerse him into playing for Ireland.

[DannyInvincible]

No, but that was transposed onto me during my stint over on OWC where I was (get this) accused of being an FAI employee, logging on to check their forum for "Catholic-sounding" names (whatever that is).

Ridiculous. Didn't someone at a NI youth game once accuse this chap of being you?

http://www.instructables.com/image/FL3YLLEGFRWPEGB/Shrub-Bush-Plant-costume.jpg

Obviously, they'd missed seeing Jackie Fullerton wearing his green supporters wig to games before that.

[DannyInvincible]

The point JD made is that the FAI willl have a look at a player if the player makes his interest known. This is consistent with an agreement the FAI and the IFA have from 1999. In the case of Shane Ferguson, the FAI made the first approach which is inconsistent with what JD said. However given Mick Martin's connections to Newcastle United, this approach could simply have been an innocent crossing of paths. Shane Ferguson didn't give a definite answer and there are no indications the FAI subsequently sought to persuade or coerse him into playing for Ireland.

The GAWA has tweeted the following:


thegawa Green & White Army
Evidence to the contrary: Eunan O'Kane bbc.in/vt089d Shane Ferguson bit.ly/lubktS & Mark McKeever bit.ly/u1qJL0 #gawa

[punkrocket]

I liked the bit when Mark Carruthers asked him about the cost of the new contract and Delaney replied "...he recognised the tough economic climate that we all live in.." do you now John, do you now?

This was fun as well http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017jk00
Jump to 41 mins if you want to avoid the poor grammar exhibited during the first article, which dealt ironically enough with educational issues.

[Newryrep]

Excellent post DI. Although I'm inclined to think that it is a 'debate' that we should ignore. I'm loath to speak so crassly about something that many people on here (not to mention measured and informed NI posters here such as NB and GR) feel so strongly does warrent discussion and reconcilliation, but as far as I'm concerned, the IFA and the OWC brigade can go f***. They've tried to fabricate that the freedom of choice of young Irish men and women is something negative that exists because of some loophole. Something that I find reprehensible.

Good on 'Gerry the Catholic' if he had no problem singing GSTQ or whistling the Sash or standing to attention to the Union Jack or playing his football in a stadium and an atmosphere that has for decades epitomised the staunchest and ugliest uber-Loyalist and anti-Irish nationalist settlement - but don't try and dress that up now with a big 'Football for All' banner and a clever little ditty by Gary Lightbody and suggest that nationalists should cast aside their natural alliegence totheir country and nation.

SD if somebody born in NI has to be perssuaded to play for Ireland then maybe...............they shouldnt bother The number of the FAI is readily available, they accept incomming calls from the north

[DannyInvincible]

I liked the bit when Mark Carruthers asked him about the cost of the new contract and Delaney replied "...he recognised the tough economic climate that we all live in.." do you now John, do you now?

This was fun as well http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017jk00
Jump to 41 mins if you want to avoid the poor grammar exhibited during the first article, which dealt ironically enough with educational issues.

Gerry Armstrong: "I only want people who want to play for NI or for Ulster."

Play for Ulster? Erm, I'm from Ulster; representing Ireland and representing Ulster (not that international football is about provincial identity anyway) are not mutually exclusive.

Some of the callers' comments are priceless. Where has the notion arisen that nationalists are demanding this change of anthem? It's not about nationalists being "offended" by 'God Save the Queen' either; it's about the dirge being completely irrelevant to them. That's not intolerance or bigotry; it's just a symbol with which they don't associate because it's as irrelevant and alienating to them as 'La Marseillaise' would be if they played under that anthem.

[Sullivinho]

Ridiculous. Didn't someone at a NI youth game once accuse this chap of being you?

http://www.instructables.com/image/FL3YLLEGFRWPEGB/Shrub-Bush-Plant-costume.jpg


Predator, although a suspicious character with an obvious pro-Irish agenda, is nothing more than an innocent patsy in the assimilation. In exhibit 'A' above, the unmistakable shape of Mick Martin can clearly be seen poaching from the grassy knoll in the background. Witnesses on the day reported hearing three distinct FAI offers yet only two defections were identified. From the IFA's p.o.v. they can be seen moving back, and to the South...back, and to the South...back, and to the South.

[geysir]

The point JD made is that the FAI willl have a look at a player if the player makes his interest known. This is consistent with an agreement the FAI and the IFA have from 1999. In the case of Shane Ferguson, the FAI made the first approach which is inconsistent with what JD said. However given Mick Martin's connections to Newcastle United, this approach could simply have been an innocent crossing of paths. Shane Ferguson didn't give a definite answer and there are no indications the FAI subsequently sought to persuade or coerse him into playing for Ireland.
As Mick Martin is an employee of the FAI and Givens (his immediate boss) reported the approach made to Ferguson, we can only assume that Mick Martin made the approach on behalf of the FAI. Regardless, in that interview JD did not rule out an enquiry to find out the players's intentions. He said that the FAI were not into coercion, recruitment or pressurizing players into a declaration. So, JD was being honest in that interview.

Is JD being entirely honest in regards to the 1999 agreement, is another question.
In 1999 there was some agreement for the FAI not to approach NI born players first. Approaching Ferguson first in that (1999 agreement) context, raises a question.
Despite that 1999 agreement, the IFA have sought every means to thwart a (NI born) players right to declare for the FAI. They made public campaigns about young kids, derided their aspirations and also encouraged NI fans to deride their aspirations.They made repeated nonsensical public statements about the eligibility situation and fostered a hostile public ignorance on the issue. And now they are cajoling pressurizing players not to declare for the FAI. You might say well they have every right to do all that, then I would say the FAI have every moral right to approach a NI born player and ask if he is interested to declare for the FAI.

[Scooby Doo]

SD if somebody born in NI has to be perssuaded to play for Ireland then maybe...............they shouldnt bother The number of the FAI is readily available, they accept incomming calls from the north

Ideally, yes. But when you're 12-18 years old and and Big Gerry arrives to your school/club/(home!!??) with all his fanfare and rhetoric of inclusiveness, then you can see how young nationalists, unsure of their future prospects might be cajoled into declaring for the IFA. Especially when there is no concrete FAI presence locally as an alternative to the in-your-face 'NI-ism'!

[co. down green]

Play for Ulster? Erm, I'm from Ulster; representing Ireland and representing Ulster (not that international football is about provincial identity anyway) are not mutually exclusive.


Gerry's getting good at the old 'unionist speak' - mainland, ulster, play for your own country etc...

Heard him using the ROMAN Catholic term last week also.

He's learning the IFA lingo quick since he got his new job!