Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Crosby87]

North Dakota has long wanted to drop the "North" part b/c they feel it makes it sound like a cold, remote place with a high alcoholism and abuse rate, (of course it is/has) while South Dakota gets more tourism. (North Dakota is last). So it would just be "Dakota." Which sounds more romantic. Ireland gets plenty of tourism but maybe you should be Southern Ireland while Northern Ireland is just Ireland. Southern Ireland sounds like a fine destination to the uninitiated. For example Stutts last year you went to the beaches and hot tubs of Sweden on Holiday but maybe you would have just investigated spending your money in Southern Ireland.

[Stuttgart88]

We are regulars to West Cork which is lovely. It makes east Cork sound horrible by implication though.

My family got tired of the rain though hence more imaginative destinations in recent years.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Cork and Kerry are beautiful places. If a foreigner asked me where to go in Ireland, they would be top of the list. In fact, I would tell them to skip the towns and cities and just do a rural, scenic holiday. Architecturally, Ireland's towns and cities are put to shame by other developed countries.

[geysir]

We are regulars to West Cork which is lovely. It makes east Cork sound horrible by implication though.

My family got tired of the rain though hence more imaginative destinations in recent years.
Would Ystad rate as one of your more imaginative destinations?

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, I think so. Nice spot actually. Since our last trip to Cork we've also been to Mallorca and Annecy in France. The latter wins.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Scottish born Paul Paton has been called up for Northern Ireland.

Looked up his Twitter for sh*ts and giggles..

https://twitter.com/zebacowie/status/439857032418426880

[DannyInvincible]

Scottish born Paul Paton has been called up for Northern Ireland.

Looked up his Twitter for sh*ts and giggles..

https://twitter.com/zebacowie/status/439857032418426880

His father's from Larne so I don't think his eligibility was ever in question.

[Stuttgart88]

Exactly, he's one of ours.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well, I suppose any of their 'triallists' can later jump ship and join us!
;)

Even Alex Bruce...
:rolleyes:

[DeLorean]

The Adnan Januzaj saga is pretty interesting. Just looking at this, Kosovo have their eye on a few more as well, should they gain recognition... Shaqiri, Xhaka, Behrami and Cana. I presume the 'special circumstances' apply because Kosovo wasn't previously an option and they'd be entitled to switch should the situation chance?


Kosovo to persist with Januzaj (http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/287265.html)

Kosovo football federation officials will continue their pursuit of Adnan Januzaj, despite comments from the Manchester United winger's father that he would not make his international debut for the country next month.

Kosovo is currently not recognised by the United Nations and until then cannot be admitted to FIFA. World football's governing body, however, has granted the nation permission to play against full FIFA members who recognise its independence - although such meetings would not qualify as full international fixtures.
Januzaj was reportedly set to play for the country - where the majority of his family hail from - in its first-ever full international against Haiti on March 5.

Kosovo manager Albert Bunjaki told ESPN FC on Wednesday: "The players must decide by themselves. I want them in the team, but the most important thing is that they - not their parents, their managers or anyone else - make their decision. If they can do that, I know they'll have high motivation to come with us."
But Eroll Salihu, secretary general at the FFK, said he would continue to pursue the 19-year-old.

"We cannot force him, but it would be very symbolic if Adnan would play for 15 or 20 minutes," he said. "He would not be asked to do anything beyond that. Unfortunately he is just 19 and we don't have any official statement from him, but I think [Januzaj's camp] should give positive signals to meet with our officials."
The midfielder is wanted by a host of different countries, with Belgium, Albania, Turkey, Serbia and England all hoping to persuade him to represent them.

Bunjaki said he would also pursue Bayern Munich's Xherdan Shaqiri and Borussia Monchengladbach's Granit Xhaka, who will both play for Switzerland in this summer's World Cup, as well as Swiss teammate Valon Behrami, of Napoli, and Albania captain Lorik Cana, of Lazio.

"The most important thing is that we start building the team with the players available to us now, who are all of good quality, and creating some competition within the group. After that, if we play in the World Cup qualifiers then of course I want the best players for Kosovo - that includes Shaqiri, Xhaka, Behrami, Januzaj, all of them," he said.

Friendly matches do not commit a player to one country, but FIFA's statute, article 17, allows for changes in national representation by athletes only in special circumstances.

Last week, Januzaj's father told Kosovan TV station Kohavision that he would like his son to play for Kosovo, but added that "the matter is delicate, because the Kosovo FA is not yet a member of FIFA."

"Maybe one day Adnan will play for Kosovo, but for now, this will not happen. And we have a lot of time to think about everything."



Incidentally, they are drawing 0-0 at home to Haiti at half time in their first international (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/mar/04/kosovo-international-football-debut-haiti-friendly).


Edit:
Full time:- Kosovo 0-0 Haiti

[Olé Olé]

When he states that he wants Xhaka, Behrami and Shaqiri to play for Kosovo, is he rambling? It's not possible for these players to switch to Kosovo having appeared competitively for Switzerland, is it?

[Charlie Darwin]

They seem to be banking on there being an amnesty, although I can't see where in history there is a precedent unless they represented a nation that no longer exists.

[BonnieShels]

They seem to be banking on there being an amnesty, although I can't see where in history there is a precedent unless they represented a nation that no longer exists.


Surely Yugoslavia and the USSR are the pertinent precedents here.

Eg. Boban played for Yugoslavia and then played for Croatia which subsequently came into being. And Yugoslavia existed after this date also. The USSR FA continued on as the Russian FA.

[geysir]

This bit from that article is not correct
"Kosovo is currently not recognised by the United Nations and until then cannot be admitted to FIFA."
That admission to FIFA can also depend on the parent FA giving their permission/favour for the application.
If Kosovo got the backing of Serbia FA, they could become a FIFA member without having UN membership.
But that would be as unlikely as an Orange parade standing to attention for AnbF.

[geysir]

Surely Yugoslavia and the USSR are the pertinent precedents here.

Eg. Boban played for Yugoslavia and then played for Croatia which subsequently came into being. And Yugoslavia existed after this date also. The USSR FA continued on as the Russian FA.
Serbia and Montenegro is a better example, but the 'amnesty' as such only concerned the countries directly affected.
In Kosovo's case, none of their players play with their mother FA, in fact they hate Serbia. Their international standard players are with Albania and Switzerland.
Kosovo's case is breaking new ground.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Fair point about 'new ground', though without being contrary, be surprised if this is the first ever case?

[geysir]

Be surprised then:) It's (hypothetically) unprecedented.
Where you have a new FIFA member from a new breakaway region/country, whose players are not playing with the 'mother' FA, but with other countries in Europe.
And hypothetically (on being accepted as full member), Kosovo are looking for an amnesty for those capped players.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Don't know if it's ever been mentioned but Harry Kane of Spurs is allegedly eligible through an Irish father.

[CraftyToePoke]

Don't know if it's ever been mentioned but Harry Kane of Spurs is allegedly eligible through an Irish father.

He was mentioned in the usual rounding up of the usual suspects in the papers recently alright. Galway I think.

[Charlie Darwin]

Surely Yugoslavia and the USSR are the pertinent precedents here.

Eg. Boban played for Yugoslavia and then played for Croatia which subsequently came into being. And Yugoslavia existed after this date also. The USSR FA continued on as the Russian FA.
Yugoslavia in 1990 and Yugoslavia in 1992 were the same in name only. A new republic was formed and a new FA applied to join FIFA and UEFA. That's not in any way applicable to Kosovar footballers who are cap-tied to Switzerland.

[IsMiseSean]

He was mentioned in the usual rounding up of the usual suspects in the papers recently alright. Galway I think.

He has cousins back in the arse end of Connemara.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

"I went to Galway a few summers ago." "I had a few pints of Guinness." "It would be an honour to play for the country."

Harry Kane

Sometime in 2018.

[gastric]

"I went to Galway a few summers ago." "I had a few pints of Guinness." "It would be an honour to play for the country."

Harry Kane

Sometime in 2018.

Can you stop this rubbish! You bring up Kane as having Irish roots and then ridicule him to let us know, yet again, of your opinion on this issue. Why ridicule him when he hasn't even mentioned playing for us? We know your point of view, get over yourself!

[CraftyToePoke]

"I went to Galway a few summers ago." "I had a few pints of Guinness." "It would be an honour to play for the country."

Harry Kane

Sometime in 2018.

How does this unprovoked ridicule of the guy tie in with your springing Zat Knight in the other thread ?

Which way are you kicking here TWOK'er ? Or do you even know yourself.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I was just trying to be funny. Obviously, it went down like a lead balloon. Sorry.

I brought up Zat Knight as a joke because someone else brought up Jutkiewicz, who has shown similar ambivalence to declaring for Ireland as Knight. Both scored yesterday for Bolton.

And I am no Zat Knight fan but the guy was a beast a few years ago and people were excited about the possibility of his playing for us, until he made a few ill-advised TOWK-esque comments.

Sorry guys. I know I can rub people the wrong way but this time I was genuinely just trying to be funny.

I'll get my coat.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And donate it to a scarecrow?

[IsMiseSean]

I'll get my coat.

Ah don't go, you're great craic!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/jason-mcateer-ireland-1361123-Mar2014/

McAteer thinks we should target Granny rule players. "The talent is out there".

Don't know about that.

[Stuttgart88]

I hate when someone like that is wheeled in to spout ill informed nonsense.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Who? A bit harsh on TOWK...

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Meanwhile, Davies, doesn’t hold out much hope of being called up for the Republic of Ireland either following Roy Keane’s comments he wasn’t good enough to make Roy Hodgson’s World Cup squad.

“With the Ireland thing, it’s something which has come from afar. It was a possibility but it’s something i’ve not really pursued because, basically, my nan was born in Ireland but she’s English, as such. She grew up in England and had English parents so it’s not really a passionate Irish connection,” he added.

“I don’t know if Keano [Roy Keane (http://talksport.com/roy-keane)] would have me after his comments yesterday and i don’t know if Martin O’Neill would have me.”

Read more at http://talksport.com/football/exclusive-disappointed-davies-admits-his-england-world-cup-dream-over-14031082882#U5hpZXqIQAXDdARu.99

[Stuttgart88]

He didn't pass my gut test even before that interview. I hope they don't pursue him.

There's an even deeper issue here over and above issues such as devaluing international football etc. The FAI need to be aware of the BIG's brand value and ability to connect with the public. Playing people like Davies would distance the team from the public. I think most people can tell which granny rulers are genuine enough and which are taking the mickey.

[geysir]

To paraphrase Curtis Davies himself, he didn't pursue the FAI, he wasn't looking to pass any ethnic test, he admitted he has virtually no connection to Ireland nor has he ever expressed a desire to play for Ireland. We are not remotely on his radar. Curtis Davies is a non-issue for us.

On Roy Keane, seeing as he's our assistant manager, is it appropriate for him to passing belittling barbed comments, in public on tv, about the English national team aspirations of a player?

[CraftyToePoke]

There's an even deeper issue here over and above issues such as devaluing international football etc. The FAI need to be aware of the BIG's brand value and ability to connect with the public. Playing people like Davies would distance the team from the public. I think most people can tell which granny rulers are genuine enough and which are taking the mickey.

Yeah, key point in it all and something the FAI would do well to be aware of in any trawling for recruits, these fellas need to be able to credibly represent Irish people out there as I see it, and this guy wouldn't come close. And in fairness to him, I don't think he is saying anything different.

[Stuttgart88]

Yep, there's no suggestion Davies is doing anything wrong here at all. I think the "credibly represent Irish people" thing is key.

Wrt Keane's punditry, he'd be useless as a pundit if he couldn't speak his mind, not that that has ever stopped scores of his predecessors from sitting on the fence uttering banalities for a living. Is it appropriate? I'll sit on the fence if I may, in a banal way.

[liamoo11]

='[/Fair play to davies they are fantastic comments and sum the issue up well. He had no irish family and irish heritage growing up. It was just an accident(boom boom!) that his gran was born in Ireland. Totally different to the vast majority of lads who grow up in england with an irish family background

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Forde (Westwood, Given); Coleman (Keogh, McShane) , Dunne (Duffy, Hoban) , O'Shea (Delaney, Clark), O'Brien (Ward, Wilson); McGeady (Brady, Pilkington), McCarthy (Hendrick, Meyler), Gibson (Whelan, Green), Hoolahan (Reid, O'Kane), McClean (Quinn, Treacy); Long (Keane, Stokes)

Bunn (Lonergan); Naughton (Stearman), Chambers (Davies), Gerrard, Flanagan (Tierney); Redmond (Buckley), Noble, O'Hara, Hammill; McGoldrick (Jutkiewicz), Kane

Some of our best options in one list.

The most higher profile Granny Rule players in the other list.

Some (Naughton, Gerrard, Redmond, Flanagan) there are serious doubts over eligibility.

Some have expressed disinterest all the way up to ambivalence about declaring (Bunn, Lonergan, Noble, O'Hara, Jutkiewicz). I must qualify that O'Hara is on record in saying that he is aware and proud of his Irish heritage but identifies as English and doesn't want to take the place of someone who is Irish.

Some (Stearman, Tierney) are nowhere near the required level.

That leaves Redmond, Chambers, Gerrard and a couple of others. I really would love to know where these players McAteer is alluding to are hiding.

Focus on tying down the players that are already playing/having played at underage level (Grealish, Carruthers, Mason, Murray) by all means but I don't think they should stretch resources looking for the next Paul Green.

And before getting hung-up on any one player like Redmond, it is worth noting that Sean Morrison was supposedly eligible for Ireland to the point where even Irish teammates at Reading were talking about prospective call-ups and then a couple of months later "Yeah, not eligible. Don't know where that came from".

[SkStu]

Focus on tying down the players that are already playing/having played at underage level (Grealish, Carruthers, Mason, Murray) by all means but I don't think they should stretch resources looking for the next Paul Green.

This is spot on.

[NeverFeltBetter]

On Roy Keane, seeing as he's our assistant manager, is it appropriate for him to passing belittling barbed comments, in public on tv, about the English national team aspirations of a player?

It's always going to be an issue with someone like him. It's not in his nature to restrain himself from such commentary.

[ArdeeBhoy]

If anyone ever thought he didn't have the capacity to be an eejit, they need to catch themselves on then...

Personally though, will take anyone who's eligible, who'll play for us...

[CraftyToePoke]

Even if eligible, calling up the likes of Jon Flanagan, Will Buckley or Richard Stearman begs the question of whose place in the team/squad they would be taking and would they be satisfied not being a guaranteed starter; as the likes of Mark Noble and Jamie O'Hara patently weren't.



I must qualify that O'Hara is on record in saying that he is aware and proud of his Irish heritage but identifies as English and doesn't want to take the place of someone who is Irish.


So, re O'Hara, which is it ?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Really amuses me how people feel the need to trawl the site to try and catch me in a lie or a contradiction over something inconsequential as the precise reason a League One player doesn't want to play for Ireland.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11699_7245325,00.html

http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/ohara-decides-hes-not-irish-after-all/

I may have been hard on O'Hara in the first quoted post but my opinion - and just my opinion - he would play for Ireland if he was guaranteed starts but his heart clearly isn't in it and like Davies, his frankness is refreshing.

[CraftyToePoke]

I didn't trawl much indeed, I just remembered you saying it as I was involved in that discussion at the time. And for a player so inconsequential, it is you, and not I who has now brought him up. Twice.

I am glad you are amused, I'm amused too, almost as much as when you flit between aggressor and victim depending on how discussions develop.

Why no mention of McManaman at Wigan or Bamford, out of interest ?

[ArdeeBhoy]

But are Bamford/McManaman even remotely interested/likely...
Because if on a par with the likes of Kevin Nolan/Mark Noble, is there even much point discussing...

[Stuttgart88]

It amuses me how TOWK still doesn't know what "begs the question" really means, especially as he's a master of sophistry :)

[DannyInvincible]

I really would love to know where these players McAteer is alluding to are hiding.

I'd imagine someone stuck a microphone to McAteer's mouth and he spouted the generic stock "expert/ex-player opinion" on the "granny rule".


I may have been hard on O'Hara in the first quoted post but my opinion - and just my opinion - he would play for Ireland if he was guaranteed starts but his heart clearly isn't in it and like Davies, his frankness is refreshing.

Aren't you contradicting yourself again there though? Previously, you'd said O'Hara "identifies as English and doesn't want to take the place of someone who is Irish". He'd be taking the potential place of someone else if he was guaranteed starts, but you say he would play for us under those circumstances? True, he's fairly inconsequential, but both conclusions can't be correct; it's indicative of your habit of jumping to flimsy conclusions seemingly based on whim or flighty preference rather than solid evidence.

[Dunners]

Eamon (TOWK) Dunphy

Is it really you ? or has Eamon got himself a rival in the popularity stakes

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

.....

[CraftyToePoke]

But are Bamford/McManaman even remotely interested/likely...
Because if on a par with the likes of Kevin Nolan/Mark Noble, is there even much point discussing...

There is little or no value discussing any number of the players on the post I was responding to, in terms of either being interested or being good enough, but in a contribution which saw fit to mention Lonergan, Bunn, Tierny and the likes, I thought it strange to omit two of the better, younger 'possibles', was all AB.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

There is little or no value discussing any number of the players on the post I was responding to, in terms of either being interested or being good enough, but in a contribution which saw fit to mention Lonergan, Bunn, Tierny and the likes, I thought it strange to omit two of the better, younger 'possibles', was all AB.

It's a fair point, Crafty.

Bamford played once for the U18's when he was at Nottingham Forest. He is now owned by Chelsea, playing for the England U21's and is firing in the goals for Derby. It's pointless talking about him. Maybe he will become relevant to this discussion again when he is in his mid to late twenties and depending on his career trajectory. McManaman is being discussed as a possible for the England WC squad so, again, pointless and irrelevant to the discussion.

But you are right about Lonergan, Bunn and Tierney. They are not very good options but it's hard to flesh out a list of tenable options from the Granny rule pool. I shouldn't have bothered naming Redmond either because he is too young, has too much potential, too tenuous and is too disinterested to be a realistic option either.