Eligibility Rules, Okay

[ifk101]

The first it that the IFA getting players from other associations and the IFA losing players to the FAI isn't always the same thing, and shouldn't be compared as though they are.

But the FAI are losing players to the IFA and that is the same thing and should be compared as such. 3 promising players from Derry recently make the switch after coming through FAI structures. I doubt if the IFA asked the FAI if these players were still in their "plans" or brought up the issue of compensation.

[osarusan]

But the FAI are losing players to the IFA and that is the same thing and should be compared as such. 3 promising players from Derry recently make the switch after coming through FAI structures. I doubt if the IFA asked the FAI if these players were still in their "plans" or brought up the issue of compensation.

If it is the case that these three switched to the IFA knowing they were still part of the FAI's plans, then it would be the same, yes.

I've not said that it doesn't happen, indeed DannyInvincible pointed out that Sean Scannell is/was a good example of the IFA looking at a player who was an active FAI underage player.

I've just argued that the line that 'the IFA complain about the FAI but they're happy to take England's rejects' oversimplifies the issue, in my opinion.

[ArdeeBhoy]

We, er, know...

[DannyInvincible]

McClean was wanted by the IFA at the time he declared for the FAI, usually the IFA pick from the scraps of the unwanted players, those born outside NI.
Therein lies a difference and is used as one cause of annoyance. Whether you put much credence on that cause, is another matter.

What about Patrick McEleney's switch from the FAI to the IFA? The IFA had no problem whatsoever with the fact that Noel King still had plans for him: http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/sport/football/derry-city/mceleney-joins-big-brother-at-ni-1-4385364


I told Noel King my decision and he tried to get me to reconsider but my mind had been made up. I have talked with Michael O’Neill and U21 boss Stephen Robinson a few times and they were telling me their plans for the future and I was very interested. They both spoke very well and I’m just looking forward to trying to be part of that now.

[DannyInvincible]

The second is that if a player had made up their mind that they are going to represent ROI, but hides that from the IFA and continues to be involved in squads/development, I think that is unfair.

Is it that black-and-white though? What exactly constitutes "making up their mind"? How can a player "make up his mind" in a situation imbued with such uncertainty, where certain factors are beyond his control?

What about those players in the IFA's youth set-up who would support Ireland and who would jump at the chance to play for the FAI if it ever arose, but who aren't sure if their abilities would ever enable the realisation of such an aspiration, so, for now, and perhaps for the rest of their playing careers, so long as the FAI ignore them, they're more than happy to contribute to the IFA's cause? The IFA's under-age set-ups are full of such players and the IFA are well aware of this. Should they all drop out in order to maintain some element of integrity, even when the IFA have no issue with selecting them time and time again? It's obvious not even the IFA would want that.

[Charlie Darwin]

McClean was wanted by the IFA at the time he declared for the FAI, usually the IFA pick from the scraps of the unwanted players, those born outside NI.
Therein lies a difference and is used as one cause of annoyance. Whether you put much credence on that cause, is another matter.
I wouldn't put any credence in it. The timing of McClean's declaration for Ireland was incidental - the only reason he decided to switch at that exact time was because the IFA forced the matter.

[DannyInvincible]

Just on McAlinden, a Wolves-supporting friend described him as "one of [their] best academy prospects".

[osarusan]

Should they all drop out in order to maintain some element of integrity, even when the IFA have no issue with selecting them time and time again?

You're developing a bad habit of putting words in my mouth Danny. I never said anything about dropping out of squads to keep their integrity. My point has been about concealment. If a player who has decided that they would take the opportunity to represent the ROI if the opportunity arose, then that player should let the FAI know about their feelings, and should let the IFA know also. Once they've been open with both associations, bothe the FAI and the IFA are fully informed when making whatever decision that want to make regarding that player's involvement in their setups.

[DannyInvincible]

You're developing a bad habit of putting words in my mouth Danny.

Apologies; just trying to tease out your perspective.


I never said anything about dropping out of squads to keep their integrity. My point has been about concealment. If a player who has decided that they would take the opportunity to represent the ROI if the opportunity arose, then that player should let the FAI know about their feelings, and should let the IFA know also. Once they've been open with both associations, bothe the FAI and the IFA are fully informed when making whatever decision that want to make regarding that player's involvement in their setups.

That seems fair enough.

[BonnieShels]

I am not aggrieved about it in any way.

Well you sure as hell are going on like you are.

Is there something else we don't know?


I've made two points.


I am aware of the two points you made and in making those points I have responded with what I see as the next logical progression of what you said.

I think what you're saying is cr@p. Though you are perfectly valid in holding those opinions.


The first it that the IFA getting players from other associations and the IFA losing players to the FAI isn't always the same thing, and shouldn't be compared as though they are.

Why are the FAI "different"? Just because the IFA have a small pool to choose from, as we keep being reminded, doesn't mean the FAI should look on Our Wee Neighbours with a sense of sympathy.

The FAI are merely allowing Irish Citizens to play for the nation of their birth.

I don't understand how the input of the IFA's training strucures (whilst a contributor to some players development) is held up as the reason why these players should consider their futures as it was the IFA who had the most input into their development? Pure bull. The clubs are the ones who develop players. Associations merely take on the cream of the crop. Usually.


The second is that if a player had made up their mind that they are going to represent ROI, but hides that from the IFA and continues to be involved in squads/development, I think that is unfair.

Ah the famous "decision cut-off point" argument.


I made no reference to players being hindered, or apologies to the IFA, so I have no idea why you mention it.

I mentioned apologies because in essence if you do something unfair the next stage is usually an apology I would think.

But that's not really the nub of the argument.



And of the ideas you suggest, the first has already been mentioned on this thread before. The others are just retarded.

All of the ideas I mentioned were retarded. That's the point. They were said with my tongue firmly wedded to the inside of my cheek.

NISFA are the body responsible for schoolboy football in the Province. Playing for them in no way intimates that you are representing the IFA. It just means you are good at football and happen to attend school in FATDAD.

If anyone asked my child at such a young age who they wished to play for when they were older I would be liable to put them through a wall.

Same as that if the attendance at an IFA Summer Soccer School was predicated on your leanings t'wards Norn Iron or with us Mexicans.


If the IFA want to call eligible players to their teams then so be it. If the players don't want to play for them then so be it. Are we gonna get snooty when Michael Keane (eventually) gets his English senior debut or if Jack Grealish decides to throw his lot in with the Three Lions... no. We won't because we haven't got this bizarre insular paranoid mentality that is pervasive throughout Windsor Avenue.

[BonnieShels]

You're developing a bad habit of putting words in my mouth Danny. I never said anything about dropping out of squads to keep their integrity. My point has been about concealment. If a player who has decided that they would take the opportunity to represent the ROI if the opportunity arose, then that player should let the FAI know about their feelings, and should let the IFA know also. Once they've been open with both associations, bothe the FAI and the IFA are fully informed when making whatever decision that want to make regarding that player's involvement in their setups.

This seems to have developed since I composed my last post.

So essentially you feel it's the player who is being unfair to the IFA and not the FAI for picking them.

I understand, now, what you are getting at but like Danny I don't think it's as simple as "knowing". We have to bear in mind that a lot of the time these are young men who still aren't sure about anything in their lives (don't you remember being 19?) I think the IFA should be more understanding of that.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Spot on.

Don't think 'self-righteousness' figures very strongly in their decision-making.
With the possible exception of McClean.
;)

[osarusan]

This seems to have developed since I composed my last post.

So essentially you feel it's the player who is being unfair to the IFA and not the FAI for picking them.

I understand, now, what you are getting at but like Danny I don't think it's as simple as "knowing". We have to bear in mind that a lot of the time these are young men who still aren't sure about anything in their lives (don't you remember being 19?) I think the IFA should be more understanding of that.

Nothing has developed since your last post. I've said the same thing over the last 24-36 hours. I'd say I made it perfectly clear in post 5378 that there was no blame attached to the benefiting association - the FAI.



Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Does it affect your moral judgment of the players concerned, or of the benefiting association?
Originally Posted by Osarusan
Regarding the player, possibly, if they've been concealing their intentions from the IFA. Not the benefiting association.

[BonnieShels]

Nothing has developed since your last post. I've said the same thing over the last 24-36 hours. I'd say I made it perfectly clear in post 5378 that there was no blame attached to the benefiting association - the FAI.

I always regret posting twice in a row. It means you get to ignore the first one. Rookie mistake on my part.

It has developed because namely I missed it when you first posted it and now thanks to Danny teasing it some more I understand more what you mean.

I still don't know why you hold this frankly bizarre stance, but each to their own.


Spot on.

Don't think 'self-righteousness' figures very strongly in their decision-making.
With the possible exception of McClean.
;)

Eh... Self righteousness and feeling aggrieved is the default position. :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Self righteousness and feeling aggrieved is the default position.

Isn't that, er, certain supporters from the island of Ireland?
:)

[geysir]

What about Patrick McEleney's switch from the FAI to the IFA? The IFA had no problem whatsoever with the fact that Noel King still had plans for him: http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/sport/football/derry-city/mceleney-joins-big-brother-at-ni-1-4385364
Derry whataboutery?? :)
I wrote "usually" they have to make deals with the unwanted scraps of the international scene, very few would chose to go there if they were wanted elsewhere.
Surely you don't think I give a flying f'eck about the oft scorned IFA and their contradictions. They would poach and lure with the morals of a 1930's Berlin pimp and now some talk of paying a ransom before releasing their captive taigs.

[osarusan]

I always regret posting twice in a row. It means you get to ignore the first one. Rookie mistake on my part.

It has developed because namely I missed it when you first posted it and now thanks to Danny teasing it some more I understand more what you mean.

I still don't know why you hold this frankly bizarre stance, but each to their own.



Eh... Self righteousness and feeling aggrieved is the default position. :)

I thought that seeing as how your first post was before you got what I was talking about, it was ok not to reply to it.

And I am interested in what you see as so bizarre in the two points I have made.

[BonnieShels]

Isn't that, er, certain supporters from the island of Ireland?
:)

I assumed that's who you were referring to. The sun is getting to me. :)

[BonnieShels]

I thought that seeing as how your first post was before you got what I was talking about, it was ok not to reply to it.

And I am interested in what you see as so bizarre in the two points I have made.

Well I was more interested in responses to some of the things I mentioned in my first post. This discussion can evolve. It doesn't just have to stagnate at the point of your problem with Irish born Nationals having their cake and eating it as it were.


The part I find bizarre is your continued declaration of how it's unfair to the IFA and why it matters to you so much.

[osarusan]

Well I was more interested in responses to some of the things I mentioned in my first post.

Which things?



The part I find bizarre is your continued declaration of how it's unfair to the IFA and why it matters to you so much.Again, it doesn't matter to me so much, or at all. To quote yourself, Is there something else we don't know? Why do you insist it matters so much to me?

I think it's unfair if a player who is currently involved in training/squads with association A, but who has ambitions of playing for association B, conceals those ambitions from association A so that he doesn't run the risk of being left our of future training/squads. I can't see anything so bizarre about that.

[paul_oshea]

To quote yourself

I've nothing meaningful to add to this post, much like 269 odd pages of this thread, but that bugs me.

I think Osarusan is a champion of the "downtrodden". He always seems to pick off trivial sub-arguments or detract from the main argument, in the pursuit of taking the non-populous view.

[BonnieShels]

Agreed. Hence my regret for making that second post. Dang.

[osarusan]

I think Osarusan is a champion of the "downtrodden". He always seems to pick off trivial sub-arguments or detract from the main argument, in the pursuit of taking the non-populous view.
When the key issue is the idea theat the IFA are guilty of hypocrisy by taking players like Alex Bruce, arguing that I don't think that makes them guilty of hypocrisy is hardly a trivial sub-argument, is it?

Agreed. Hence my regret for making that second post. Dang.
I've already asked you to highlight the parts of that post which are still valid after you realised I wasn't blaming the FAI for anything. You've chosen not to.

[BonnieShels]

When the key issue is the idea theat the IFA are guilty of hypocrisy by taking players like Alex Bruce, arguing that I don't think that makes them guilty of hypocrisy is hardly a trivial sub-argument, is it?

I've already asked you to highlight the parts of that post which are still valid after you realised I wasn't blaming the FAI for anything. You've chosen not to.


I've chosen to enjoy the sun.

[osarusan]

I've chosen to enjoy the sun.
Fair enough, enjoy.

Any comments on my attempt to explain my bizarre position:




I think it's unfair if a player who is currently involved in training/squads with association A, but who has ambitions of playing for association B, conceals those ambitions from association A so that he doesn't run the risk of being left our of future training/squads. I can't see anything so bizarre about that.

[BonnieShels]

I'll comment tomorrow when I'm in a less cider compromised position if you don't mind. Peace out!

[SkStu]

Any comments on my attempt to explain my bizarre position:

I think the only explanation is that you're a northern Irish Protestant masquerading as an Ireland and Limerick fan.

Mods, ban this imposter.

[gastric]

Fair enough, enjoy.

Any comments on my attempt to explain my bizarre position:

I personally don't find your point of view bizarre, just compassionate and there is no problem with such an opinion. Just on that, does anyone on here really want to see NI reduced to a level where it might be deemed a Luxembourg or lower in terms of competitiveness? I ask this because we are acquiring many of their best talent, and where I just wonder they are going to end up long term?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha. Keep him and all his fellow self-righteous begrudgers, if only for the 'comedy' value...

[DannyInvincible]

I personally don't find your point of view bizarre, just compassionate and there is no problem with such an opinion. Just on that, does anyone on here really want to see NI reduced to a level where it might be deemed a Luxembourg in terms of ability?

They're pretty lowly as it is, but I don't really concern myself with their fortunes. Not that I wish them any misfortune either, for that matter. Indifference would best describe any feelings I have towards them.


I ask this because we are acquiring many of their best talent, and where I just wonder where long term they are going to end up?

Who said dual national players were theirs? And "many"? The quantity of players deciding to make the switch between the IFA and the FAI amounts more to a trickle than a tidal wave. This thread hasn't seen such life as it's witnessed of late in a good while. Don't believe the hype. Likewise, the majority of the promising talents currently playing in their youth set-ups will remain with the IFA. Shane Ferguson decided he'd be best served by sticking with the IFA, for example. Most of their other talents won't even remotely or seriously consider a switch.

[gastric]

Danny, I feel you are being a little pedantic. I was using the word 'theirs' in relation to players who have represented them at some level, just as I would have referred to say Jack Grealish as being 'ours.'
If we were losing players to say England who might help our cause, I would probably feel angry and frustrated too that is why I referred to compassion in the above post. At the same time, I welcome all who play for us, and as I mentioned previously, Ryan McLaughlin would be a great addition to our squad. I suppose compassion is an emotional response, while happily accepting any player who plays for us is an acceptance of the reality of the situation.

[DannyInvincible]

I know you didn't use it with malicious intent or to stir the pot, but I think it's important not to fall into a casual habit or mindset of seeing dual nationals in terms of being theirs, as if these players have some lesser right to play for us or as if we have some lesser right to facilitate their wishes.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28026545.jpg

The FAI are as entitled as the IFA to select eligible players, irrespective of whether the players concerned have represented the IFA at some level or not.

[BonnieShels]

The FAI are as entitled as the IFA to select eligible players, irrespective of whether the players concerned have represented the IFA at some level or not.

This is the nub of the argument of what I was saying yesterday.

I can see how someone might perceive it to be unfair (osarusan, gastric) on the basis of us "taking" players that once played for their teams. And on the face of it it may appear that way. But you also have to consider that a lot of the active posters in this thread, namely myself, Danny, geysir, ifk and Sullivinho strictly adhere to the idea that a dual national is eligible regardless of the staus of them playing for underage teams etc.

We must accept that for one reason or another, and I would definitely put geography in the mix, that a player may have initially have chosen to play for an IFA team at a young age out of expediency but their intent would be if they were ever good enough that they would wish to play for the FAI. I don't think that you can class these kids as being devious or malicious, just a cold hard fact that playing for the NISFA or training for local clubs in FATDAD mean it is likely that they would be picked up by the IFA first before the FAI even knew they existed.

[Stuttgart88]

I think an important point is that it's far more likely to represent the association nearest to you in your teens, especially when you know it's not a binding decision.


If I was the nationalist parent of a talented kid I'd be slow to allow him to represent the IFA at any level if I felt it 'd rule him or her out of ever representing the FAI. The IFA is possibly better off having FAI "inclined" players play for them and have some chance they'll stick, rather than cut them off altogether.

I don't wholly support the argument that its cutting off an opportunity for another IFA player. The track record of underage teams feeding the senior teams is relatively poor I'd say. Or rather the attrition rate of under age players is fairly high.

Of course one can sympathise with the IFA but they, more than anyone, should recognise that nothing is straightforward when it comes to national identity in Northern Ireland. If they ( a broad "they" including hangers on and media) stopped spouting inaccurate nonsense then I'd have more sympathy, but I don't.

[gastric]

This is the nub of the argument of what I was saying yesterday.

I can see how someone might perceive it to be unfair (osarusan, gastric) on the basis of us "taking" players that once played for their teams. And on the face of it it may appear that way. But you also have to consider that a lot of the active posters in this thread, namely myself, Danny, geysir, ifk and Sullivinho strictly adhere to the idea that a dual national is eligible regardless of the staus of them playing for underage teams etc.

We must accept that for one reason or another, and I would definitely put geography in the mix, that a player may have initially have chosen to play for an IFA team at a young age out of expediency but their intent would be if they were ever good enough that they would wish to play for the FAI. I don't think that you can class these kids as being devious or malicious, just a cold hard fact that playing for the NISFA or training for local clubs in FATDAD mean it is likely that they would be picked up by the IFA first before the FAI even knew they existed.

Bonnie, I dont think it is unfair (rules are rules and I fully accept them), more I feel O'Neill is doing his utmost to try and build a team and it must be absolutely frustrating to lose players who could be potentially good. I felt his comments about catching up with McAlinden (I think it was) to talk about the future, something he intimated Trap wouldn't do, is true and shows his commitment to his job. If this was happening to us, I would feel aggrieved that is why I mentioned the word compassion. In no way, do I feel any sympathy for those NI supporters who try to politicize and use football for sectarian purposes, but I am sure there are many supporters who see it primarily as a sport, and for them, it must be very frustrating also.

[BonnieShels]

I think an important point is that it's far more likely to represent the association nearest to you in your teens, especially when you know it's not a binding decision.

Bingo.



If I was the nationalist parent of a talented kid I'd be slow to allow him to represent the IFA at any level if I felt it 'd rule him or her out of ever representing the FAI. The IFA is possibly better off having FAI "inclined" players play for them and have some chance they'll stick, rather than cut them off altogether.

Say Stutts, that one of your children harboured an ambition to play for Ireland but the fact that they lived in London meant that they were unlikely to get involved with an FAI team for a while I'm sure you would see the pragmatism of them being involved with the FA's youth set-up.

I wouldn't think that when they declared for the FAI at a later date that they were stringing the FA along or believe it to be unfair. Not that I would ever think that such a scenario would be allowed happen in your house! :)

Exactly how I feel about anything to do with the IFA. The simplistic notions that you should play for the team where you were born or the team you played underage football with fails to take into consideration all the complex feelings and ideas behind nationality.


I don't wholly support the argument that its cutting off an opportunity for another IFA player. The track record of underage teams feeding the senior teams is relatively poor I'd say. Or rather the attrition rate of under age players is fairly high.

Again I agree. This is a fallacy. An argument concoted by the bands of OWC heads to justify a reason for not calling up a talented Nationalist. Any players good enough will get into the team. Provided they are spotted. James McClean's presence in an undrage squad didn't limit the chances of another player that was good enough. James just happened to be better than anyone in that position at the time.


Of course one can sympathise with the IFA but they, more than anyone, should recognise that nothing is straightforward when it comes to national identity in Northern Ireland. If they ( a broad "they" including hangers on and media) stopped spouting inaccurate nonsense then I'd have more sympathy, but I don't.

I wouldn't sympathise with them tbh. When I was younger I had more of an affinity with the IFA team. Not now. Their antics over the years culminating in the Kearns case shows that they are worthy of nothing more than ambivilance.


Bonnie, I dont think it is unfair (rules are rules and I fully accept them), more I feel O'Neill is doing his utmost to try and build a team and it must be absolutely frustrating to lose players who could be potentially good. I felt his comments about catching up with McAlinden (I think it was) to talk about the future, something he intimated Trap wouldn't do, is true and shows his commitment to his job. If this was happening to us, I would feel aggrieved that is why I mentioned the word compassion. In no way, do I feel any sympathy for those NI supporters who try to politicize and use football for sectarian purposes, but I am sure there are many supporters who see it primarily as a sport, and for them, it must be very frustrating also.

If O'Neill is doing his utmost then so be it. But constantly referring to the FAI and Trap for making his job harder or the fact that they wouldn't care as much strikes me as him looking for blame.
It's the same tired mantra employed by the former EPN.

[DannyInvincible]

I think Trap is more than happy to reassure players of his plans for them, so not sure why O'Neill has this idea in his head that Trap wouldn't be prepared to do what he does. Remember James McCarthy prior to the Euros? Thing is, O'Neill appears to be leveling a mild criticism at Trap whilst bigging himself up, but you can be sure he'd be even more critical if Trap was found to be sounding out youth internationals in the IFA's set-up and trying to convince them to switch to the FAI by telling them about what great plans he had for them; no-win for Trap.

[osarusan]

I can see how someone might perceive it to be unfair (osarusan, gastric) on the basis of us "taking" players that once played for their teams.
Again, my sympathy (I wouldn't go so far as to call it compassion) isn't because of 'us' taking their players. It's if and when a player continues to be involved with underage training after he's made his mind up, but hasn't let the IFA know. Obviously not all players do this, but I'd say it's naive to think that none do. No blame is attached to the FAI, who, by agreeing to wait to be contacted, are clearly showing a willingness to compromise.

I think that the IFA are in a position where, as Danny mentioned, some percentage of their underage players have, to varying degrees probably, dreams/ambitions of playing for the ROI if they give the chance. And, as both Danny and Stuttgart pointed out, it's not really a course of action for them to weed them out either - they'd prefer them to stay and take their chances that the player will, for whatever reason, stay with the IFA. That is a very frustrating position in which to be.

And, like Stuttgart, my sympathy would be stronger if the IFA and/or hangers on didn't talk sh!te at seemingly every available opportunity.

[BonnieShels]

Again, my sympathy (I wouldn't go so far as to call it compassion) isn't because of 'us' taking their players. It's if and when a player continues to be involved with underage training after he's made his mind up, but hasn't let the IFA know. Obviously not all players do this, but I'd say it's naive to think that none do. No blame is attached to the FAI, who, by agreeing to wait to be contacted, are clearly showing a willingness to compromise.

Until they play for us nothing "unfair" has happened.

What would you say about a young nationalist, like say Niall McGinn who obviously harbours an ambition to play with the FAI but who perceived himself that he wasn't good enough and decided to stick with the IFA? He's partaking in such skullduggery. If he mentioned that he wishes to play forthe FAI and stood out of IFA squads on that basis he would be depriving himself of intl football and the IFA of a decent footballer.

[Gather round]

I think it's unfair if a player who is currently involved in training/squads with association A, but who has ambitions of playing for association B, conceals those ambitions from association A so that he doesn't run the risk of being left out of future training/squads. I can't see anything so bizarre about that

Excellent point, well made.


does anyone on here really want to see NI reduced to a level where it might be deemed a Luxembourg or lower in terms of competitiveness? I ask this because we are acquiring many of their best talent, and where I just wonder they are going to end up long term?

I imagine many of your fans- like almost all of Luxembourg, Azerbaijan or Portugal's- want us to be less competitive, if not to the point of the games being a complete waste of time. We're all rivals in the same two competitions after all.

Only many in your case though, because obviously plenty others of your fans want the NI team to be abolished. Whether as bored sh*t-stirrers, daydreaming Shinners or just numbskulls who think that merging a mediocre team with a bad one will make the new entity a potential World-beater almost by definition.

Long term, I worry that international football will become even more of a poor relation to the club game than at present. That will hurt NI as a small country even before you consider limited players, poor coaching or halfwitted media pundits. On the other hand, if we can limp ahead of Lux and Azer into fourth place, that will actually be an improvement on Euro 12 qualifying. Onwards and upwards, potentially.


We must accept that...a player may have initially have chosen to play for an IFA team at a young age out of expediency but their intent would be if they were ever good enough that they would wish to play for the FAI. I don't think that you can class these kids as being devious or malicious

As you say, that's the nub of the argument. We're looking at different perceived unfairnesses.

D- on the literary reference btw.

http://pics.librarything.com/picsizes/36/de/36de11386eef68b597745435467434d414f4141.jpg

[osarusan]

Until they play for us nothing "unfair" has happened.

What would you say about a young nationalist, like say Niall McGinn who obviously harbours an ambition to play with the FAI but who perceived himself that he wasn't good enough and decided to stick with the IFA? He's partaking in such skullduggery. If he mentioned that he wishes to play forthe FAI and stood out of IFA squads on that basis he would be depriving himself of intl football and the IFA of a decent footballer.

Nobody mentioned any player staying out of IFA squads. McGinn tells the IFA of his ambitions, and tells the FAI too, so they can select him. The IFA can then choose or omit him as they see fit, but either way, can't complain about it.

[Crosby87]

Osa, the mayor of Hachioji is Ishimori Takayuki?

[ifk101]

I'm sure the IFA are perfectly aware of the players in its ranks that wish to be elsewhere but select these players regardless as (a) they make their respective team selections stronger and (b) they can work on convincing these players to stay put.

[osarusan]

Osa, the mayor of Hachioji is Ishimori Takayuki?

Yes. Actually he went to the same university I work at.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm sure the IFA are perfectly aware of the players in its ranks that wish to be elsewhere but select these players regardless as (a) they make their respective team selections stronger and (b) they can work on convincing these players to stay put.

Indeed, that is exactly how the IFA operate.

[Not Brazil]

I'm sure the IFA are perfectly aware of the players in its ranks that wish to be elsewhere

I would encourage those players who "wish to be elsewhere", to go elsewhere...at the earliest opportunity.

For example, if they want to play for the FAI, then it might be an idea for them to make the FAI aware of their desire at, say, Under 19 level.

The IFA cannot complain about players going elsewhere, when the IFA allow themselves to be treated like a stepping stone to a Senior International career with another Association.

As I have said previously, when the IFA start to focus primarily on players who want to have a Senior International career with the IFA, they might not have to gurn about defections as much in future.

[Bungle]

What is the craic with Ryan McLaughlin? Is he likely to declare for us? He sounds an amazing talent from what I've heard.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Fair enough NB, but as we've discussed many times before, there ain't ever going to be any time or age limits, rightly IMO.
And the door(s) will remain firmly open. In 'all' directions...

Which benefits teams with smaller pools generally.

[Not Brazil]

Fair enough NB, but as we've discussed many times before, there ain't ever going to be any time or age limits, rightly IMO.
And the door(s) will remain firmly open. In 'all' directions...


More a case of helping a young player decide which door he wants to through AB, before selecting him.

Big, grown up, conversations with footballers (and their parents, possibly?) when they are in the frame for selection at Under 19 Level isn't against any rules, nor is it creating any new ones.

[BonnieShels]

More a case of helping a young player decide which door he wants to through AB, before selecting him.

Big, grown up, conversations with footballers (and their parents, possibly?) when they are in the frame for selection at Under 19 Level isn't against any rules, nor is it creating any new ones.

Provided they walk through the door leading with their right foot... or correct foot? :)

Seriously though I don't think there would be any harm in that but I think you have to tread carefully as it would appear that the IFA are "weeding" people out if done wrongly or insensitively. I wouldn't put it past them to make a hames of it. I think the current situation is fine and would be better if the constant bleating from the IFA, OWC and MON was put to bed.