Eligibility Rules, Okay

[ArdeeBhoy]

Bizarre, dear.

In your case it's way beyond that. And that's just the spelling...
:rolleyes:

As is your 'claim', re. the 'British' royal family.
;)

[gastric]

Interesting article considering the present debate!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/1129/1224327257259.html

[bwagner]

Tom Flanagan is another player that Noel King was looking at but turned out for the under 21s of the North

[DannyInvincible]

Interesting article considering the present debate!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/1129/1224327257259.html


Historians have highlighted that none of the nationalist Irish leaders appeared to understand the Ulster unionist identity, what Peter Robinson described as an “identifiably distinct people”. The dominant nationalist figure of the 20th century, Éamon de Valera, suggested: “People who are opposed to unity and who do not want to be Irish, could be transferred out of Ireland if they preferred to be British rather than Irish.” Not a lot of empathy there.

Surely the level of understanding is more sophisticated now so as to render De Valera's half-a-century-old view irrelevant in the contemporary context? Nobody of even remote significance trots out lines like the above any more, or do they? :confused:


Does the South really comprehend this “identifiably distinct people”, this idea of being British as well as Irish? Our school history is a tortuous journey to an independent Ireland. Independent meant definitively non-British.

Can they be British and Irish? Mary Lou McDonald welcomed Martin McGuinness’s handshake with the queen but referred pointedly to the “queen of England”. Declan Kearney speaks of reaching out to unionists. For the thousands of unionists lining the streets during the queen’s jubilee, the handshake was not the main event. It was seeing their queen. Do Martin, Mary Lou and Declan acknowledge her as their queen?

Do they have to acknowledge her as their queen? She's of no positive cultural relevance or value to them. A Dublin journalist (former international rugby player?) can wax lyrical about indulging unionism (is this general phenomenon indicative of a southern guilt complex or something?), but what about simultaneously understanding the northern nationalist/republican identity if understanding is atop his list of priorities? I don't want to come across as if I'm engaging in whataboutery; rather, it just appears like double standards to me. MacNeill presents unionists with their differences as "identifiably distinct" whilst nationalists/republicans, due to their differences, are presented as antagonistic.

Seeing through some mild and emotive hyperbole, I thought this comment beneath the piece made a good overall point in line with what I'm saying:


"Historians have highlighted that none of the nationalist Irish leaders appeared to understand the Ulster unionist identity". Maybe so but none of the post-partition leaders of the 26 counties or of NI have understood the Irish national identity of the 6 counties. We are the forgotten (part of the) people. The entire public discourse in the north is again phrased in unionist terms, in the south in partitionist terms (the south is Ireland, northerners are 'Northern Irish'). Southern politicians from the 60s on have made plenty of moves in a pro-British and pro-unionist direction. The 2 nations theory has become the (usually) unstated credo of FF/FG/Lab. Unionists have yet to make such concessions to our identity. Even in this piece, Unionists are presented as constructive thinkers but no nationalists. Mary Lou McDonald is singled out for saying the 'queen of England'. That is common parlance worldwide but she is held up as an example of anti-unionist hate speech. "Sinn Féin, the SDLP and others pursuing constitutional change have to build such a new society, respecting an “identifiably distinct people”. When will the Irish Times make a similar call for the Unionist parties and the main southern parties to do the same for that part of the Irish Nation stranded beyond the border? I suspect the answer is never as they all just want us to dissolve away and become nice peaceable west britons, good for spending a few bob on holiday in Donegal but certainly not good enough to join Ireland, all glorious 26 counties of it.

[DannyInvincible]

Came across these tidbits on OWC and thought them interesting...

The first relates to FIFA's ratification of former England youth international Emmanuel Frimpong's eligibility to represent Ghana, the country of his birth: http://sports.peacefmonline.com/soccer/201211/147927.php


Ghana have been handed a massive boost just weeks before the Africa Cup of Nations as FIFA is on the verge of ratifying Emmanuel Frimpong’s nationality switch to enable him play for the Black Stars, GHANAsoccernet.com can exclusively reveal.

The world governing body has submitted all the documents required for the ex-England youth international’s switch to be approved its Player Status Committee for its endorsement.

This means the on-loan Charlton midfielder could be cleared in time to play for the Black Stars at the 2013 Africa Cup of Nations which starts in South Africa on 19 January.

This comes after the Northern Ireland FA submitted its letter to the football’s world governing body confirming that Frimpong has not played for the country at senior level.

The England FA, Scotland FA and Wales FA had all provided documents confirming that Frimpong has not played for them at senior level but the Northern Ireland FA delayed in providing its document, stalling the midfielder’s quest to play for the country of his parents.

With the last letter confirming that he has not played for any of the countries in the Great Britain, FIFA says the department responsible for ratifying nationality switches is now considering the matter.

Interesting that the IFA, FAW and SFA all had to submit documents along with the FA in light of Frimpong's British citizenship, in spite of the fact he was never eligible for the former associations anyway.

The second piece relates to Qatari citizenshp - which was touched upon in recent discussion over Noe Baba's eligibility - and what it means for sport/football there: http://theyouthradar.com/2011/08/07/aspire-academy-the-future-of-football-in-qatar/


One may ask the question that if Qatar is recruiting from around the world, how does that benefit their national football team? Qatari citizenship is generally very hard to secure, most people will have to wait 25 years before they can be considered Qatari. However the state can grant a passport and citizenship to anyone they want and in the past they have taken advantage of this by nationalizing Kenyan steeplechasers, Bulgarian weightlifters and Chinese chess players. The state will look to make the best talent from the Aspire Academy into Qatar nationals in order to develop and expand the talent of their squad leading up to the 2022 World Cup where they will be pressurized to make a huge impression. This may be the wrong way to make an impression on the world scene, but Qatar is all about making a name for themselves in the world and with such pressure to produce, maybe this is the only way?

Here is the poster's comment:


I was doing an article on eligibility for Uni and one of the countries I looked at was Qatar because I know they've a few players who weren't born in the country playing for them. Their last squad had 13(!) out of 23 players who were born outside Qatar, mostly in Senegal and Kuwait etc but also one or two Brazilians. I remember the Aspire Academy from Qatar coming over and ripping everyone apart in the Milk Cup not long ago and I'm pretty sure there were a few Senegalese etc in that team. Anyway, found this online, copied and pasted the paragraph I found most interesting.


Would that imply that Qatar are in fact granting Qatari citizenship to footballers under the age of 18 in the hope they'll develop into fully-eligible senior internationals? Will FIFA see a problem with this?

[Irwin3]

Very interesting Danny. And to think I was laughed at recently for suggesting that this loophole might be exploited when it may indeed already have started to be so.

[ArdeeBhoy]

That was sort of a point I'd also raised before. In the Noe Baba thread and elsewhere. Albeit far more clumsily than the ever eloquent DI.

[SwanVsDalton]

Would that imply that Qatar are in fact granting Qatari citizenship to footballers under the age of 18 in the hope they'll develop into fully-eligible senior internationals? Will FIFA see a problem with this?

I'd say Qatar will if they can, despite what the Aspire guys might claim: http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5933045/how-qatar-became-player-world-soccer

Seems there's a bit of plagiarism between this article and the one you highlighted! But relevant pars:

"In fact, if the program director's rhetoric is any clue, building the national team pool might well have been an auxiliary goal at the onset of the Football Dreams program, though it's not something those affiliated with the program are willing to talk about now.

"When making agreements, we are not requiring them to play for Qatar," Aspire sports director Andreas Bleicher told reporters two years ago in Africa. "We leave it up to them. A player might be here for five years, and if he wants to play for Qatar, it is upon the player concerned."

Several international Aspire students have since represented their countries of birth, and the recruiting rhetoric has been toned down considerably. The Football Dreams website now includes a phrase explicitly stating that the goal of the program is not to recruit players for Qatar. But at least one international Aspire graduate, Daniel Goma of Guinea, has recently been called into camp with the Qatari side -- according to FIFA rules, no player can play for a national team, even in a friendly, without citizenship -- and his international future would seem to lie with the Annabi."

As for FIFA - they awarded the WC to the same tiny country seemingly without even considering playing football there in summer might kill someone. So I wouldn't have much faith they'll crackdown on an eligibility issue.

[peadar1987]

FIFA won't crack down on it. I doubt they want the embarrassment of handing the World Cup to a country who then proceed to get caned every match. Although I suppose they've already had the embarrassment of handing the World Cup to a country with the population of Clonmel whose population isn't particularly interested in football.

[BonnieShels]

I require knowledge of Irish Nationality Law in my new job.

Easy.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Although I suppose they've already had the embarrassment of handing the World Cup to a country with the population of Clonmel whose population isn't particularly interested in football.

Did you misread the figures?? Only a 100 times more in Qatar.
Though I take the point it's all about the money and feck all to do with football.


http://population-of.com/en/Ireland/26/Clonmel/

https://www.google.co.uk/url?url=/publicdata/explore%3Fds%3Dd5bncppjof8f9_%26met_y%3Dsp_pop_tot l%26idim%3Dcountry:QAT%26dl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26q=qat ar,+population&rct=j&sa=X&ei=mFq9UMDOB7GV0QW2m4GABQ&ved=0CC4Q6xYwAA&q=Qatar,+population&usg=AFQjCNFC8bjCtD96PUuOS0Z01DHBPOMWdw

[peadar1987]

Did you misread the figures?? Only a 100 times more in Qatar.
Though I take the point it's all about the money and feck all to do with football.


http://population-of.com/en/Ireland/26/Clonmel/

https://www.google.co.uk/url?url=/publicdata/explore%3Fds%3Dd5bncppjof8f9_%26met_y%3Dsp_pop_tot l%26idim%3Dcountry:QAT%26dl%3Den%26hl%3Den%26q=qat ar,+population&rct=j&sa=X&ei=mFq9UMDOB7GV0QW2m4GABQ&ved=0CC4Q6xYwAA&q=Qatar,+population&usg=AFQjCNFC8bjCtD96PUuOS0Z01DHBPOMWdw

Hyperbole, my friend! I use it at least twenty million times a day

It's population is slightly less than that of Ulster, still ridiculously small to host a World Cup

[paul_oshea]

Did anyone listen to this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/19969750

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hyperbole, my friend! I use it at least twenty million times a day

It's population is slightly less than that of Ulster, still ridiculously small to host a World Cup

Yes, but the analogy of Clonmel was more than a little odd. Bray would have made more sense...

[DannyInvincible]

Did anyone listen to this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/19969750

Again? No, thanks!

The nonsense spouted was discussed from page 84 of this thread.

[paul_oshea]

go on i missed it, a couple of mates of mines thought it was a good piece.

[DannyInvincible]

go on i missed it, a couple of mates of mines thought it was a good piece.

OK, I have it on in the background and Nigel Worthington stating that young players "have got to be cajoled" around the 13-minute mark was a sweet touch. Happy now? :)

I added my two cents on some of the more prominent blunders here (http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1542448&viewfull=1#post1542448).

Anyone hear how Jim Boyce got on?...

[geysir]

Here is the poster's comment:

'I was doing an article on eligibility for Uni and one of the countries I looked at was Qatar because I know they've a few players who weren't born in the country playing for them. Their last squad had 13(!) out of 23 players who were born outside Qatar, mostly in Senegal and Kuwait etc but also one or two Brazilians. I remember the Aspire Academy from Qatar coming over and ripping everyone apart in the Milk Cup not long ago and I'm pretty sure there were a few Senegalese etc in that team. Anyway, found this online, copied and pasted the paragraph I found most interesting.'

Would that imply that Qatar are in fact granting Qatari citizenship to footballers under the age of 18 in the hope they'll develop into fully-eligible senior internationals? Will FIFA see a problem with this?
Svan has already made some points. The Qatar national team has some foreign born players but they have been resident and playing in Qatar for at least 5 years.
The Aspire Academy has not provided one foreign born graduate to the national team despite its existence for many years. The Senegal born striker who scored against Man U when they were trounced by the Academy in the Milk Cup final is a Senegalese underage international, should he wish to play for Qatar (and there is no indication that he does), I suspect he would have to have been resident in Qatar for 5 years.


Very interesting Danny. And to think I was laughed at recently for suggesting that this loophole might be exploited when it may indeed already have started to be so.Irwin, I don't remember anybody laughing at your questions, in fact it was stated that you raised a good question. Any possible loophole in any possible situation might be exploited but if you remember the reply to this question was that it's not a problem until that time we see that it is being exploited. There is no evidence at all of the Aspire Academy being used by Qatar to exploit this loophole.
Just because someone disagrees with your opinion does not mean they are laughing at you.

[Irwin3]

Laughing at / making glib comments. Why else would you bring kidnapping into it unless you were trying to be humorous?


Until that happens (Qatar - kidnapping minors) there is not a problem existing, therefore there is no statute black hole.

[geysir]

Laughing at / making glib comments. Why else would you bring kidnapping into it unless you were trying to be humorous?

Trying to be humourous and 'laughing at', are not synonymous. I was not 'laughing at'.



This is what I replied to



So the concensus appears to be that it's a statute black hole where minors who acquire a new nationality are given some kind of leeway. Seems strange to me as what's to stop the likes of Qatar targeting under 18 prospects and giving them passports?
Then FIFA might have to legislate and I get the feeling that Danny is just itching to propose some legislation :)
Until that happens (Qatar - kidnapping minors) there is not a problem existing, therefore there is no statute black hole.

[Irwin3]

So you were shooting down the (implied) suggestion of pre-emptive legislation by being humorous. Hmm. Where could I possibly have got the idea that you were laughing at me/ the idea I proposed from...

[geysir]

So you were shooting down the (implied) suggestion of pre-emptive legislation by being humorous. Hmm. Where could I possibly have got the idea that you were laughing at me/ the idea I proposed from...

Seeing as you have remembered a perceived slight all this time, did not mention it in the thread at the time and still cannot accept when I say I was not poking fun at you, then I say take your pick from the following possibles.
a. Cynicism, taking the worst possible meaning.
b. Oversensitivity to perceived criticism.
c. Hypersenstivity to perceived reprimand.
d. You like holding grudges.
e. You are perfect and no shadow of doubt should ever be cast upon your judgements.

[Irwin3]

Attack the post, not the poster. Is that not the unwritten rule for a discussion forum?

I'm not a goldfish. I can remember my last post on a topic when new information is brought to my attention and I make my next post.

Have fun with your psycho-babble. I only deal with the facts of a situation, i.e. what a poster actually writes, rather than making up baseless speculation about them from the comfort of my keyboard in an attempt to discredit them and make myself look good.

And we come full circle as you cannot refute that this is indeed an attempt to laugh at me. Maybe point that psychoanalytic finger of yours at yourself next time.

[Paddy Garcia]

I require knowledge of Irish Nationality Law in my new job.

Easy.

Do you work for the English FA?

[Charlie Darwin]

Well he certainly doesn't work for the IFA.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Do you work for the English FA?

No. Qatar's.
:eek:

[BonnieShels]

Well he certainly doesn't work for the IFA.

That is the dream job. one day. one day.

[gastric]

That is the dream job. one day. one day.

Bloody Protestants, always get together! :D

[Charlie Darwin]

That is the dream job. one day. one day.
In that case your knowledge of Irish nationality law with not only be useless, it will be an impediment.

[geysir]

Any knowledge would be an impediment in that case.
But, Bonnie has just stated that knowledge (of Irish nationality law) is a requirement in his job, he doesn't claim to have acquired such knowledge.

[peadar1987]

Exactly, it was a requirement of my job not to turn up drunk, and to wear trousers every day. Ha!

[geysir]

And, dare we mention,
that's it's a requirement of the job not to log onto discussion boards.

[BonnieShels]

And, dare we mention,
that's it's a requirement of the job not to log onto discussion boards.

I've managed, somehow to avoid logging on during the day. Killed with the busy.

The requirement isn't as in-depth as it was first mooted. Pretty annoyed.

[paul_oshea]

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/protestantcatholic-gap-narrows-3323445.html

so NB only fits into 8% of the population.

[Not Brazil]

Interesting that more people in Northern Ireland consider themselves "Northern Irish Only" or "British & Northern Irish Only", than those who consider themselves "Irish Only".

[as_i_say]

Interesting that more people in Northern Ireland consider themselves "Northern Irish Only" or "British & Northern Irish Only", than those who consider themselves "Irish Only".

What's all that got to do with us continuing to nick your best players?

[Not Brazil]

What's all that got to do with us continuing to nick your best players?

Which of our "best players" have you "nicked"?

[as_i_say]

Which of our "best players" have you "nicked"?

Well we tried to nick Kyle Lafferty early in his career but decided against it cos he was crap.

[Not Brazil]

Well we tried to nick Kyle Lafferty early in his career but decided against it cos he was crap.


Oh.....right.

I think Kyle Lafferty might just have "decided against" your imaginary approaches, had they ever happened.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Interesting that more people in Northern Ireland consider themselves "Northern Irish Only" or "British & Northern Irish Only", than those who consider themselves "Irish Only".

Well, they are a majority, albeit on the basis of an enforced situation.


As for 'nicking' players, had they been bothered, Duffy, Gibson & McClean would all have been selected.

[DannyInvincible]

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/protestantcatholic-gap-narrows-3323445.html

so NB only fits into 8% of the population.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/252253_466631523383392_449218397_n.jpg


Interesting that more people in Northern Ireland consider themselves "Northern Irish Only" or "British & Northern Irish Only", than those who consider themselves "Irish Only".

How do you figure that?

Percentage identifying as "Northern Irish Only": 21%
Percentage identifying as "British & Northern Irish Only": 6%
Percentage identifying as "Irish Only": 25%

Unless I'm reading something incorrectly...

Edit: Are you combining the two former figures? What's interesting about it exactly?

[ifk101]

NB is summing the "Northern Irish Only" and "British & Northern Irish Only" categories, and using that sum to make a comparison with the "Irish only" category. Why? Because NB thinks it is interesting and by posting this interesting observation here he's presumably hoping to get some interesting debate on his interesting observation. By interesting I understand NB as meaning pointless.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha, to ifk's post and DI's diagram.

In the former's case, what about the other 48%...
:rolleyes:

[Not Brazil]

As for 'nicking' players, had they been bothered, Duffy, Gibson & McClean would all have been selected.

Well nicked. Well done.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No problems. Well, in the main...

Here's to many more.

[DannyInvincible]

In the former's case, what about the other 48%...
:rolleyes:

A combination of the above presumably, along with other identities from around the world.

Or maybe "Northen Irish"...

http://assets.u.tv/galleries/2/1/5/101512/598x448/pacemaker_broadway_protest_06.jpg

[ArdeeBhoy]

Come now, on the basis of their ropey spelling on here, the alumni of the unionist education system would appear to have much to answer for...
;)

Though am presuming that eejit is additionally one of the '6%' from that census?

[The Fly]

Come now, on the basis of their ropey spelling on here, the alumni of the unionist education system would appear to have much to answer for...
;)


I await the arrival of the 'No To Foreign Games' poster.

[Not Brazil]

the alumni of the unionist education system would appear to have much to answer for...


On the contrary, mo chara....our Minister for Education here in Northern Ireland can claim a lot of credit:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20678866

Well done Johno.

[geysir]

From last place to first in a year, O'Dowd must be a miracle worker. Sinn Fein rocks!
NI education status 'an enduring myth' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15074060)