Eligibility Rules, Okay

[ArdeeBhoy]

He was selected but he still had to choose to come.

Having a pop at Lawrenson over his use of the "we" is about as corny and ignorant and as it gets for an Irish supporter. He's English born and bred, had an Irish grandparent. He was the classiest player ever to declare for us, he could have been with England for 2 world cups, and he has NEVER expressed a regret about his choice to declare for us and has always stated his pride in playing for us through the thick and the thin. That answers the question that was asked.

So does anyone FFS. You could say the same about McGrath, who was clearly ahead of Lawro & O'Leary IMO.

And ML does say the 'the Irish team' or '(Republic of ) Ireland' or similar, in the third person, when talking about us and 'we' about the Ingles...
No problem with that, but at least be honest...

[Grafter]

Kevin Gallens case is different but not unique -in fact Brian McDermott is in the same boat where basically pressure was applied directly by the clubs involved to accept call ups to England underage squads for the clubs own good reasons. It's a pity -but that's where they found themselves.

Kevin Gallen came full circle didn't he around Kerr's time in charge... looking for a call-up. To be fair to Gallen, there was a time around late 1994 when he was considered on a par with the likes of Fowler in terms of potential... the pressure exerted on those guys to declare for England must have been immense. Kilbane has stated how Allardyce effed and blinded him out of his office at Preston when he said he was Irish.

Sam Allardyce, such a shy, retiring gentleman afterall:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[third policeman]

I lived in liverpool back then. There used to be Celtic-Rangers chants among different groups of people in the Kop. Normally it was good natured and to be honest there was probably a bit more support for Celtic, but among the Rangers fringe of Scousers, there was a very anti-irish feeling. Ronnie definitely got a bit of that. Though I do remember Rush getting a lot of Welsh stick in his first breakthrough season when he was pretty crap.


Very true, It was better by the time that Ronnie was playing, but was more evident when Heighway was playing a decade or so earlier. It was also possible to see Red Had of Ulster banners - occasionally with loyalist paramilitary emblems as well in the 70's on the Kop. It was always a minority and thankfully that hardcore element has now vanished completely. The Liverpool team had a very strong Irish core through the 80's and 90's and the old sectarian support base for Liverpool and Everton had well broken down by then too.

On the slightly related Lawro issue, I was told this story by a cousin who swears to have had this conversation with him when he was still playing. Along with Chris Hughton, Lawrenson was supposed to have been active in fringe Left politics and wrote a football column for the News Line which was a paper produced by the Workers Revolutionary Party in the UK. When asked whether he regretted not holding out for an England cap, Lawrenson allegedly replied that he would not have felt comfortable playing for an "imperialist nation." I found it hard to believe when first told, and it seems even less likely now, but my cousin is adamant it's true.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Encountered Lawro' outside Eamonn Doran's but he basically ran off when he was recognised. Didn't strike me, when I made a remark about him being in Paul Rowan's 'The Team that Jack Built'​, as a very sociable type...

[geysir]

So does anyone FFS. You could say the same about McGrath, who was clearly ahead of Lawro & O'Leary IMO.

And ML does say the 'the Irish team' or '(Republic of ) Ireland' or similar, in the third person, when talking about us and 'we' about the Ingles...
No problem with that, but at least be honest...
Now you are getting as pedantic and circular as Gather Round.
I wouldn't say the same about McGrath because he didn't declare for Ireland and patently obvious that he's not is the same category as an English born and bred player declaring for Ireland. I don't listen to every word of what Lawrenson says, I imagine he would say the Republic of Ireland and they, when talking about the team in England to an English audience.
Whoever claimed that he underwent a national baptism and was reborn a 100% pure Irishman, where do you get these ethnic purity ideas from? He was an English born footballer who declared for us on a grandparent connection, he was proud to do so and he has no regrets about it.
What a narrow, cynical judgemental outlook you have.

Encountered Lawro' outside Eamonn Doran's but he basically ran off when he was recognised. Didn't strike me, when I made a remark about him being in Paul Rowan's 'The Team that Jack Built'​, as a very sociable type...
This demonstrates two things,
1.the silliness of anybody to post such a story
2. Good judgement from Lawrenson, he probably foresaw another inebriated Irish fan going to ask me about how many times I said "we" in the past year. Lawro always had a good nose and a good turn of foot.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha.
But wrong, so so wrong on this one fella. Listen to him on the BBC next time the English national team play...
Tbf also, Lawro wasn't exactly sober as a judge either...

[Gather round]

Now you are getting as pedantic and circular as Gather Round

He seems to be blowing off a fair amount of hot air and all.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Clearly GR was looking in the mirror...also, has anyone told Greenpeace?
;)

[SkStu]

Kevin Gallen came full circle didn't he around Kerr's time in charge... looking for a call-up. To be fair to Gallen, there was a time around late 1994 when he was considered on a par with the likes of Fowler in terms of potential... the pressure exerted on those guys to declare for England must have been immense. Kilbane has stated how Allardyce effed and blinded him out of his office at Preston when he said he was Irish.

Sam Allardyce, such a shy, retiring gentleman afterall:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The Gallens were cousins of one of my best friends in school and the story with Kevins decision not to play for us is something that I have documented here before, namely Alan McDonald, as QPR club captain at the time of Kevin's breakthrough, put an enormous amount of pressure on all the Gallens not to play for us, told them he would ensure they didn't play while he was captain and from what I was told was quick with a sectarian put down when he needed to be. The Gallens put it almost entirely down to McDonald and his influence. Kevin was also under the microscope of the British media at the time (as you pointed out) and under a lot of pressure to play for them. The other two brothers were quick to tell McDonald to get effed but Kevin, as the player who was under most pressure, caved.

[SkStu]

Ha ha.
But wrong, so so wrong on this one fella. Listen to him on the BBC next time the English national team play...
Tbf also, Lawro wasn't exactly sober as a judge either...

Commitment in the green jersey and pride in the green jersey is far more important to me than saying "we" to a prescribed audience..

I always noticed him say we on BBC interchangeably when talking about England or Ireland though it is clear to me that he feels more English. Who cares though? He also feels Irish and was proud to don the green jersey.

Will never forget his goal against Scotland (even though I barely remember it). The excitement at school the next day was incredible.

[Sheridan]

Kevin Gallen came full circle didn't he around Kerr's time in charge... looking for a call-up. To be fair to Gallen, there was a time around late 1994 when he was considered on a par with the likes of Fowler in terms of potential... the pressure exerted on those guys to declare for England must have been immense. Kilbane has stated how Allardyce effed and blinded him out of his office at Preston when he said he was Irish.

Sam Allardyce, such a shy, retiring gentleman afterall:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Allardyce contributed more to Irish football than Kilbane ever did.

[Charlie Darwin]

Allardyce contributed more to Irish football than Kilbane ever did.
Don't bite... don't bite... don't bite...

[sadloserkid]

Tbf also, Lawro wasn't exactly sober as a judge either...

And you still doubt his Irish credentials? :eek:

[Paddy Garcia]

The Gallens were cousins of one of my best friends in school and the story with Kevins decision not to play for us is something that I have documented here before, namely Alan McDonald, as QPR club captain at the time of Kevin's breakthrough, put an enormous amount of pressure on all the Gallens not to play for us, told them he would ensure they didn't play while he was captain and from what I was told was quick with a sectarian put down when he needed to be. The Gallens put it almost entirely down to McDonald and his influence. Kevin was also under the microscope of the British media at the time (as you pointed out) and under a lot of pressure to play for them. The other two brothers were quick to tell McDonald to get effed but Kevin, as the player who was under most pressure, caved.

Credit to the two brothers, a shame Kevin took a ticket from an Irish supporter at the Italy game in the Giants Stadium.

[ArdeeBhoy]

See post#5987.
Actually happened when a pal of mine, former Sports editor the I.P.when round to his house to interview KG.

[DannyInvincible]

I don't listen to every word of what Lawrenson says, I imagine he would say the Republic of Ireland and they, when talking about the team in England to an English audience.

Even Martin O'Neill refers to us only as "the Republic (of Ireland)". I've never heard him refer to us by any other term, be that in front of an Irish audience as our manager or whilst discussing us in England or elsewhere. He's probably conscious of the fact that the football association of the team he once captained (and its fans) might take issue with him referring to us as "Ireland".

As for Lawro, and England-born-and-bred players like him with Irish heritage, surely it would only be natural for him, or them, to exhibit a dual sense of pride in both the English and Irish aspects of their identity simultaneously. Affiliating with one doesn't have to negate an affiliation with the other. Lawro's never expressed any regrets with regard to his decision to represent us, as far as I know. How exactly has he been dishonest? It's even been suggested anecdotally that he wouldn't have wanted to represent an "imperialist nation" anyway. Not sure how seriously that claim by third policeman's cousin can be taken, but maybe Lawro even harboured hopes of playing for either England or Ireland before ever being capped; that would be perfectly reasonable given his background, no?

[Deckydee]

The Gallens were cousins of one of my best friends in school and the story with Kevins decision not to play for us is something that I have documented here before, namely Alan McDonald, as QPR club captain at the time of Kevin's breakthrough, put an enormous amount of pressure on all the Gallens not to play for us, told them he would ensure they didn't play while he was captain and from what I was told was quick with a sectarian put down when he needed to be. The Gallens put it almost entirely down to McDonald and his influence. Kevin was also under the microscope of the British media at the time (as you pointed out) and under a lot of pressure to play for them. The other two brothers were quick to tell McDonald to get effed but Kevin, as the player who was under most pressure, caved.

And every time you post it, I will confirm that that is 100% true.





http://www.wearetherangersboys.com/forum/showthread.php?8501-Good-story-%28Qpr-related-%29

[DannyInvincible]

Saw this (somewhat relevant) story about County Down-born Bethany Firth, who represented Ireland in swimming at the Paralympics, on RTÉ: http://www.rte.ie/sport/paralympics/2013/1218/493662-firth-changes-nationality-to-gb/


Paralympic gold medallist Bethany Firth has changed nationality to Great Britain, it has been confirmed.

The application was formally approved by the International Paralympic Committee today.
The 17-year-old was born in from Seaforde in County Down and won gold in the 100 metres backstroke final last year.

A statement from Paralympics Ireland read: “It is always a moment of great pride for Team Ireland when the athletes in whom we have invested so much energy, time and training achieve such great results as those achieved by Bethany.

“Bethany’s progress under the Paralympics Ireland High Performance Swimming Programme since joining us serves as a shining example of the potential within us all to achieve greatness.

“Bethany was and is one of the success stories of London 2012 for Team Ireland winning as she did our first gold medal of the Games in the S14 100m backstroke final.

“As recently as August she brought home three silver medals from the IPC Swimming World Championships in Montreal, a further indication of her immense talent, of her progress under the Paralympics Ireland system and we have no doubt that she would have delivered further success and been an exemplary role model for Team Ireland over the next three years and beyond.

“Ultimately this is a personal decision for Bethany and we in Team Ireland would like to express our gratitude to her for all that she has achieved in her time competing with Team Ireland and we wish her all the very best in the future.”

[ArdeeBhoy]

TI took it well.
Not losing any sleep over her mind.

[Deckydee]

Saw this (somewhat relevant) story about County Down-born Bethany Firth, who represented Ireland in swimming at the Paralympics, on RTÉ: http://www.rte.ie/sport/paralympics/2013/1218/493662-firth-changes-nationality-to-gb/


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Y_ODcECzxGQ/T4sMKffGa8I/AAAAAAAAA88/LnQ8Dvynqbg/s1600/michael-scott-no.gif

[Charlie Darwin]

Rafael Da Silva seriously considered defecting from Brazil to play for England before the controversial “nationality” debate exploded around Adnan Januzaj, his Manchester United team-mate.Rafael, who could be eligible to represent England under a five-year residency rule, told his United team-mates in September that he was mulling over the idea of declaring his allegiance for his adopted country.

Although the defender, 23, has played twice in friendlies for Brazil and represented his country’s under-23 team at the Olympic Games in London last year, he could qualify for England on the grounds that he has spent at least five years at United — whom he joined from Fluminense in 2008 — though Fifa would have to ratify the move.

The idea is thought to have been floated to Rafael by a third party and initially appealed to the right back, who is eager to play in the World Cup in his homeland next summer.

Yet only weeks after mentioning it to team-mates, the debate over dual or split nationalities took on new life when it emerged that the FA hoped to persuade Januzaj, United’s teenage winger, to represent England.

Rafael, who also has Portuguese citizenship and had previously indicated an interest in representing Portugal, opted not to pursue the England option and will instead try to force his way into Brazil’s World Cup squad.

The FA is known to be exploring in depth the issue of dual and split nationalities but, unlike Januzaj, the Rafael case is not thought to be one they were pursuing.

Januzaj is already eligible to represent Belgium, Albania, Turkey and Serbia. Nonetheless, the FA is hoping to persuade him to play for England eventually. Fifa rules state a player is eligible if “he has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant association.”

Januzaj joined United in 2011 but only turned 18 in February so if the rules were strictly applied the player would have to wait until 2018 to represent England, provided he remained in the country.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/football/article3953916.ece

I'm assuming this is another misunderstanding. According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Pereira_da_Silva_(footballer_born_1990)), Rafael played 12 times for Brazil U17s, so he would be ineligible for England as he didn't have English nationality at the time he played underage competitive football.

[geysir]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/football/article3953916.ece

I'm assuming this is another misunderstanding. According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Pereira_da_Silva_(footballer_born_1990)), Rafael played 12 times for Brazil U17s, so he would be ineligible for England as he didn't have English nationality at the time he played underage competitive football.
There's that and there's the minor detail that even if he had not played for Brazil, he still wouldn't be eligible for England unless he had some parent/ grandparent connection. The UK associations dropped the residency option in 2009.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, but the Brit.media don't think so...

[tetsujin1979]

Bradley Smith, who made his debut for Liverpool today, could be in the middle of an eligibility row between his native Australia and England, who he's represented at underage levels qualifying through residency: http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/socceroos/socceroos-could-enter-fight-with-england-over-liverpool-defender-brad-smiths-eligibility/story-e6frf4l3-1226791132501

[Charlie Darwin]

Bradley Smith, who made his debut for Liverpool today, could be in the middle of an eligibility row between his native Australia and England, who he's represented at underage levels qualifying through residency: http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/socceroos/socceroos-could-enter-fight-with-england-over-liverpool-defender-brad-smiths-eligibility/story-e6frf4l3-1226791132501
This is what confuses me. He moved to England aged 14. He played U17 for England, so he was in England three years max. He couldn't possibly have qualified under residency rules, so he must have an English parent or grandparent.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

England born Northern Ireland International Oliver Norwood is being linked with a move to Celtic.

[BonnieShels]

England born Northern Ireland International Oliver Norwood is being linked with a move to Celtic.

Is this relevant to this thread?

There are no doubts about Norwoods eligibility for the IFA.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Is this relevant to this thread?

There are no doubts about Norwoods eligibility for the IFA.

My bad.

[BonnieShels]

My bad.

Entries into the quagmire that is this thread should be made with consideration to all who have all gone before you.

As you are new here I would suggest you avoid it like the plague.

Failing that, read this (http://playereligibilityinireland.blogspot.ie/2011/06/fifa-player-eligibility-in-context-of.html) and maybe dip into some previous pages of this thread for a flavour of the hell you're about to impart upon yourself grasshopper.

And may God have mercy on your soul.

[Gather round]

There are no doubts about Norwoods eligibility for the IFA

I first read that as "eligibility for the IRA" ;)

Can't see him in the latter stages of Champions' League to be honest.

[Yard of Pace]

England born Northern Ireland International Oliver Norwood is being linked with a move to Celtic.

He's a lazy sod anyhow. One of the most infuriating players I've seen play for Huddersfield.

[Newryrep]

This is what confuses me. He moved to England aged 14. He played U17 for England, so he was in England three years max. He couldn't possibly have qualified under residency rules, so he must have an English parent or grandparent.

possibly the educational route ?

[Charlie Darwin]

possibly the educational route ?
Still has to be 5 years.

[SolitudeRed]

Whilst doing a bit of research on stat site transfermarkt I noticed that David McGoldrick the Ipswich forward is listed as Irish however his place of birth is Nottingham. I have never heard him mentioned before on here anyone know if he is eligible? he seems to be having a decent enough season with 11 goals so far.

[SkStu]

Whilst doing a bit of research on stat site transfermarkt I noticed that David McGoldrick the Ipswich forward is listed as Irish however his place of birth is Nottingham. I have never heard him mentioned before on here anyone know if he is eligible? he seems to be having a decent enough season with 11 goals so far.

AFAIR he's one of those ones that falls into the category of "it's been mentioned here a few times and someone's probably answered but no one really remembers or cares enough to check themselves but sure we'll lay a claim to him anyways".

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Ah one of those middle of the road Championship standard players with a vaguely Irish surname i.e. McGugan, so he must be eligible.

Soccerbase has loads of Irish born players down as Scottish, English and Northern Irish so I wouldn't be using any of these sites as a litmus test for eligibility.

[samhaydenjr]

According to the end of this article, David McGoldrick is eligible (Irish grandparents) and as of mid-December was planning to contact the FAI to make them aware of this.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/spartak-open-to-offers-as-hull-join-hunt-for-mcgeady-29843312.html

[ArdeeBhoy]

I first read that as "eligibility for the IRA"

By definition that's Anyone who ever played for the North.
Hmm.

[SolitudeRed]

According to the end of this article, David McGoldrick is eligible (Irish grandparents) and as of mid-December was planning to contact the FAI to make them aware of this.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/spartak-open-to-offers-as-hull-join-hunt-for-mcgeady-29843312.html

He scored again yesterday although it was admittedly this was only after the keeper saved his initial penalty shot! if he keeps this goal scoring form up he would be worth a call up for one of the up coming friendlies. Up front seems like its going to be a problem area for us especially once Robbie Keane calls it a day.

[geysir]

This is what confuses me. He moved to England aged 14. He played U17 for England, so he was in England three years max. He couldn't possibly have qualified under residency rules, so he must have an English parent or grandparent. At least one of his parents is English born, therefore he can.
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/news/1172097/kop-kid-smith-keeps-australia-in-mind

[Charlie Darwin]

But then he didn't qualify by residence but through parentage.

[geysir]

But then he didn't qualify by residence but through parentage.
As there is no residency eligibility option, then it would have to be so. :)
Though I suppose the 5 year compulsory education (age 5 to 17) option would include residency.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You'd have thought so.

[Olé Olé]

Caolan Lavery has popped up with a brace for Sheffield Wednesday against Leeds today (the 5th and 6th of a 6-0 drubbing admittedly).

This is on the back of a loan spell at Plymouth where he bagged 3 goals in 4 starts and 4 substitute appearances.

Looks like he's starting to come good on his potential, at the age of 21. Call him up, Marty!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Caolan Lavery has popped up with a brace for Sheffield Wednesday against Leeds today (the 5th and 6th of a 6-0 drubbing admittedly).

This is on the back of a loan spell at Plymouth where he bagged 3 goals in 4 starts and 4 substitute appearances.

Looks like he's starting to come good on his potential, at the age of 21. Call him up, Marty!

That won't be happening unfortunately. It's already clear that a Catholic Irishman is going to be reticent about calling up Catholic Irishmen for the Irish national team because he doesn't want to upset the bigots.

[Olé Olé]

That won't be happening unfortunately. It's already clear that a Catholic Irishman is going to be reticent about calling up Catholic Irishmen for the Irish national team because he doesn't want to upset the bigots.


http://www.blather.net/careful_now.jpg

[Olé Olé]

2 very good goals by Lavery too. Both individual efforts. First one he went one a great run and threw in a few step-overs and fire it in (by way of deflection) and he capitalised on poor defending for the second, before firing a great shot into the keepers far corner from distance.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

What a rancid season it's been for Irish strikers in The Championship.

Best, Madden (now at Scunthorpe), Hunt, Sammon and Keogh not getting any football.

[ArdeeBhoy]

They're all Championship/Div.2 level at best so unsurprising?

And Lavery eligible for 3 teams, hmm.

[DannyInvincible]

That won't be happening unfortunately. It's already clear that a Catholic Irishman is going to be reticent about calling up Catholic Irishmen for the Irish national team because he doesn't want to upset the bigots.

What makes you say that? Your assertion contrasts with the words of Tony Leen in the Examiner a few months ago (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/oneill-takes-up-republic-of-ireland-reins-despite-delay-in-inking-the-deal-612004.html).


[O'Neill] has already identified a number of promising youngsters whom he hopes will declare for the Republic over Northern Ireland. Liverpool's Ryan McLoughlin [sic] is one such talent.