Eligibility Rules, Okay

[DannyInvincible]

That would certainly have been interesting alright.


Boo.
Ethiopia or Germany, no-one else.

Would you disagree though with Noe Baba's eligibility to play for us on the basis of his parent(s) having acquired Irish citizenship through residence in Ireland and passing that directly to Baba before he turned 18?


Yeah, I think you're correct. Since he didn't represent Germany in a competitive fixture he won't be using his one-time change of association ticket. But presumably he is still currently registered as a German footballer and will now be registered as a USA footballer. So he should still have this one-time change available if he wants to switch in the future and doesn't represent the USA in an official competitive senior match.

I don't think he would be formally considered a German-registered player for FIFA eligibility purposes. Otherwise, players would have to effect or request switches in spite of not having represented countries competitively, but I'm pretty sure we can assume this is not the case, can't we? If he had played for Germany competitively, he would then be formally aligned, but until then or until he represents one of the countries for whom he's eligible, any ties he has to a particular association (be that through friendly/training participation or whatever) will have no meaning as far as FIFA are concerned in terms of his eligibility or right to switch once. Once he represents a country competitively (even if it's not Germany), he'll still have his right to switch intact, unless, of course, he represents that first country in a competitive senior international. That's my understanding anyway.

[DannyInvincible]

u16 games don't count and he only played one u17 friendly, afaia that does not count as playing for Germany.

I'm pretty certain only competitive under-17, under-19, under-21 and full 'A' international games are significant, as far as the eligibility rules are concerned. There are no competitive fixtures outside of those categories as FIFA don't formally recognise other age-brackets or things like 'B' caps.

[Irwin3]

I don't think he would be formally considered a German-registered player for FIFA eligibility purposes. Otherwise, players would have to effect or request switches in spite of not having represented countries competitively, but I'm pretty sure we can assume this is not the case, can't we? If he had played for Germany competitively, he would then be formally aligned, but until then or until he represents one of the countries for whom he's eligible, any ties he has to a particular association (be that through friendly/training participation or whatever) will have no meaning as far as FIFA are concerned in terms of his eligibility or right to switch once. Once he represents a country competitively (even if it's not Germany), he'll still have his right to switch intact, unless, of course, he represents that first country in a competitive senior international. That's my understanding anyway.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure how this works. Is there not something in a footballer's registration details where they have to state their nationality. I'm guessing that 99% of the time this would be taken as their place of birth unless they already had taken on another nationality with intent to represent that country from the beginning.

Well the USMNT have notified FIFA. Presumably Gideon was by default registered as a German footballer since he did appear for them, albeit in non-competitive games.

So my guess would be that the current FIFA process Gideon is involved in is not using his transfer (since he didn't play competitively for Germany), but simply 'updating' his nationality from German to American. This 'updating' process for players who haven't performed in competitive games seems to go a lot faster than for when players have to use their one-time 'transfer' after appearing in competitive games.

Mostly speculation on my part but I think there is some logic to it. The alternative would be that you don't have to make your nationality known to the authorities and simply register for a nation when you intend to become available for competitive fixtures. I'm pretty sure I read before that players had to state their nationality when registering with the footballing authorities.

[DannyInvincible]

The alternative would be that you don't have to make your nationality known to the authorities and simply register for a nation when you intend to become available for competitive fixtures.

I'd have thought this was the case as I'm not sure why it would be of any concern or significance to FIFA otherwise, but you may well be right. I can't say for certain. It's just I don't see how such a declaration would have any substantial meaning, so it would seem superfluous to me. But then, why would the US be in touch with FIFA about setting a transfer in motion?

When or why do/would non-international players have to register with the FIFA in the first place? By "non-international" I mean those who would not have been competing in competitive games recognised by FIFA.

[Irwin3]

I'd have thought this was the case as I'm not sure why it would be of any concern or significance to FIFA otherwise, but you may well be right. I can't say for certain. It's just I don't see how such a declaration would have any substantial meaning, so it would seem superfluous to me. But then, why would the US be in touch with FIFA about setting a transfer in motion?

When or why do/would non-international players have to register with the FIFA in the first place? By "non-international" I mean those who would not have been competing in competitive games recognised by FIFA.

Maybe the USMNT are getting in touch with FIFA to make sure he's available for competitive fixtures. Perhaps he'd be free to appear in friendlies right away but you'd have to notify FIFA before the player appears in competitive games.

Well, my theory would be that every player registered in a jurisdiction would have their nationality on their registration paperwork. This would be held by the association they are playing in and would be under the ultimate supranational authority of FIFA. Otherwise, surely every player including eg Irish-born citizens would have to go through a FIFA process of registering. This obviously isn't the case, and I presume that it is because their nationality is already known from their player registration. Only players 'updating' or 'transferring' have to go through a FIFA process.

Those are my thoughts anyway. May be wrong or half-right. Probably spent to much time already thinking about it as I doubt it could be 'settled' without inside info.

[DannyInvincible]

Just having a look around, but do articles 5-9 in this document, Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players, relate do the registration of players with associations simply for the purposes of playing for a club or might they also apply to players who might want to participate in, say, an under-age friendly for a particular association?: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/01/95/83/85/regulationsstatusandtransfer_e.pdf

I scanned through them quickly but it seems to me that they relate to players who wish to play for a club only. It does mention about switching association, but I get the impression it's referring to a situation where a player might be transferring between two clubs who operate under different associations.

[DannyInvincible]

As the association to whom a player would be aligned for club and international purposes might not always be the same seeing as players will often play for clubs abroad, it is surely fair to assume that players can be registered with FIFA in terms of under which association they play for a club and, separately, for which association they play international football? I think this would suggest that the above document/articles 5-9 relate(s) only to club football.

[Irwin3]

As the association to whom a player would be aligned for club and international purposes might not always be the same seeing as players will often play for clubs abroad, it is surely fair to assume that players can be registered with FIFA in terms of under which association they play for a club and, separately, for which association they play international football? I think this would suggest that the above document/articles 5-9 relate(s) only to club football.

Going through that it seems clear that player registration details probably contain a host of information on players including their nationalities. When using the 'Transfer Matching System' (TMS), details including both 'Proof of identity and nationality – player' and 'Proof of identity and nationality – player’s parents' are to be included. Presumably when players sign up for a club for the first time they give these details on their registration papers which are held by the association that the club is a member of.

[DannyInvincible]

Going through that it seems clear that player registration details probably contain a host of information on players including their nationalities. When using the 'Transfer Matching System' (TMS), details including both 'Proof of identity and nationality – player' and 'Proof of identity and nationality – player’s parents' are to be included. Presumably when players sign up for a club for the first time they give these details on their registration papers which are held by the association that the club is a member of.

Whether or not the provision of such details to FIFA by associations/clubs/players sees players automatically aligned to or registered with particular associations on the basis of their nationality for the purposes of international football isn't clear though.

[Irwin3]

A player's registration would be held by the club/the association that the club is a member of. Ultimately every association is within FIFA. It would be updated every time a player is transferred. Likewise, it makes sense to me that it may well need to be updated if and when a player changes their nationality in certain circumstances.

The fact that player's may well have to give their and their parent's nationalities upon registering as a footballer for the first time makes some sense to me. My impression is that when player's move between their birth or their parent's nationalities the 'transfers' go through fairly quickly. On the other hand, when players choose to represent a country through a grandparent or naturalisation, the 'transfer' appears to take a bit longer. My guess is that this would be because this is brand new information that wasn't already on their player registration and their registration has to be fundamentally updated.

[DannyInvincible]

Discussion of dual citizens in other sporting fields has cropped up in this thread from time to time, so just thought I'd post this here too.

'Katie Kirk will answer Ireland's call to Rio Olympics': http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/katie-kirk-will-answer-irelands-call-to-rio-olympics-30908958.html


Middle distance star Katie Kirk has embarked on the process of a switch from Great Britain qualification to Team Ireland to boost her Olympic dream.

The 21-year-old 800m specialist, famously chosen by gold medal-winning Dame Mary Peters to carry the Olympic torch at the London 2012 opening ceremony, had hoped to return to the biggest stage competing in GB colours.

But now she believes her best hopes lie in the green of Ireland and the Holywood athlete doesn't believe her potential move will come as a shock to many people in the sport.

"I applied for my Irish passport but I had it rejected because I'd got the picture wrong or something," explained Katie. "I'm trying to get that sorted at the minute and then I'll have my proof of nationality sorted but there is nothing official as yet. I think the move was pretty inevitable and a lot of people sort of expected me to do it but nothing has happened so it'll be a while before anything is confirmed either way."

[Charlie Darwin]

Wee turncoat.

[DannyInvincible]

Interesting as I'd be stunned if her background was remotely nationalist. Incidentally, she attended the same secondary-level school as Rory McIlroy.

[Gather round]

Interesting as I'd be stunned if her background was remotely nationalist. Incidentally, she attended the same secondary-level school as Rory McIlroy.

indeed, Sullivan Upper School in Holywood doesn't have a particularly nationalist catchment (North Down voters gave SDLP and SF combined a whopping 3% in the last General Election).

That article reads like a puff piece by her mate. 13th in her event in the (British) national rankings last year isn't star quality I'm afraid.

Still, good luck and hopefully she isn't kept out of your team by the coach's niece or similar ;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

People of unionist heritage declaring for Irish sports teams?
Whatever next...

[tetsujin1979]

Spurs striker Dominic Ball has signed for Cambridge United on loan. Wouldn't normally get a mention here, but according to the report on BBC's website - http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30936286 - he has underage caps for the North, and changed allegiances to England last year. One quick google turned up a mention of him here before too - http://foot.ie/threads/132063-Player-eligibility-row?p=1367547&viewfull=1#post1367547
Can't remember who posted that this (a Northern Ireland player changing to England) was unlikely, might have been Gather Round or Ealing Green, just wondering what the reaction to this was, and how did it compare to the reactions to McClean, Duffy, Gibson, etc?

[Charlie Darwin]

A fine lat of wee beggars they are so they are themmuns in England.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Huh?

In all honesty they probably didn't care, or more likely didn't notice...

Double standards? Surely not...

[DannyInvincible]

Spurs striker Dominic Ball has signed for Cambridge United on loan. Wouldn't normally get a mention here, but according to the report on BBC's website - http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30936286 - he has underage caps for the North, and changed allegiances to England last year. One quick google turned up a mention of him here before too - http://foot.ie/threads/132063-Player-eligibility-row?p=1367547&viewfull=1#post1367547
Can't remember who posted that this (a Northern Ireland player changing to England) was unlikely, might have been Gather Round or Ealing Green, just wondering what the reaction to this was, and how did it compare to the reactions to McClean, Duffy, Gibson, etc?

That's a juicy one alright. Ball hasn't really occupied my realm of consciousness as there's not been much brouhaha about him at all. I'd say the reaction registered about 0.1 on the OWC Outrage Scale.

[geysir]

Spurs striker Dominic Ball has signed for Cambridge United on loan. Wouldn't normally get a mention here, but according to the report on BBC's website - http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30936286 - he has underage caps for the North, and changed allegiances to England last year. One quick google turned up a mention of him here before too - http://foot.ie/threads/132063-Player-eligibility-row?p=1367547&viewfull=1#post1367547
Can't remember who posted that this (a Northern Ireland player changing to England) was unlikely, might have been Gather Round or Ealing Green, just wondering what the reaction to this was, and how did it compare to the reactions to McClean, Duffy, Gibson, etc?

Curious, I checked out a 2 page Dominic Ball thread on the 'are we a country' site and there just two posts over the 2 pages who registered some form of protest.


"Sad to see especially as he looked like one of our brightest young talents!"

The most rabid outraged comment still just about managed to remain in the domain of politeness.

"balls to that and to him!"

[DannyInvincible]

What do the remainder say?

[Gather round]

Evening all. Quiet week at the OWC Rapid Rebuttal Unit is it?

Ardee's right, I've never previously heard of him. But good luck in the career anyway ;)

[Fixer82]

Re the athlete declaring for Ireland, I don't think nationality is as big a deal in athletics.
It's all about getting the opportunity to compete.
Sure wasn't Cóbh's finest (sorry Stephen) Sonia O'Sullivan trying to get Australian citizenship so she could run in the commonwealth games..

[Predator]

Spurs striker Dominic Ball has signed for Cambridge United on loan. Wouldn't normally get a mention here, but according to the report on BBC's website - http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30936286 - he has underage caps for the North, and changed allegiances to England last year. One quick google turned up a mention of him here before too - http://foot.ie/threads/132063-Player-eligibility-row?p=1367547&viewfull=1#post1367547
Can't remember who posted that this (a Northern Ireland player changing to England) was unlikely, might have been Gather Round or Ealing Green, just wondering what the reaction to this was, and how did it compare to the reactions to McClean, Duffy, Gibson, etc?
Don't worry, I'm sure a hand delivered letter is currently on its way to FA HQ. Stripping the northern Ireland team of its multicultural identity? Let's see if the sneaky FA can play Ball in Lausanne!

[geysir]

What do the remainder say?
Are you still on the banned list?

The rest say féck all worth repeating, unless you are into vacuos. Like Gather Round, when it comes to deferring to the big brother Brit, they just express (or feign) ignorance/apathy.

The one who was politely sad
"Sad to see especially as he looked like one of our brightest young talents!"

if it was a reply to Duffy or McClean, he would be drooling, sticking his head in the letterbox and shouting out "No Surrender to the FAI"

[Gather round]

The rest say féck all worth repeating, unless you are into vacuos. Like Gather Round, when it comes to deferring to the big brother Brit, they just express (or feign) ignorance/apathy

Brits? OK, they can join the list. But first I have to defer to the sage of Keflavik blowing smoke out of his arse ;)

[liamoo11]

The 17s had gadet a French lad and the Belgian lad Walsh in for friendlies last week and Anthony scullys son from west ham played he was named in England squad earlier this season. Scully and the French lad are under 16

[ArdeeBhoy]

Brits? OK, they can join the list. But first I have to defer to the sage of Keflavik blowing smoke out of his arse ;)

Really? How so...

[DannyInvincible]

Are you still on the banned list?

Aye, you bet! Still serving my time. It was an 8-year suspension initially, I think. 96 long months. I dunno how many years ago that was now. Maybe four or five? I've lost count. But I'd imagine it's been increased to at least life now (if not more), without notice (the cheek of it!), considering I've since tried using:

i) other IP addresses;
ii) accounts through which I haven't even posted at all;
iii) accessing via proxies (east Belfast-based);
iv) bogus accounts expressing inoffensive and mildly pro-NI sentiment ("Possibly, 'Danny Boy' would be an alright anthem maybe, y'know, whaddayasthink, like? Aye, naw?..."), lest overcompensating or something too over-the-top like "GSTQ 4 lyf n no sirendur 2 da fuppin FAI/SF/IRA ajenda!" would give the game away;
v) fake email addresses with fairly innocuous names (iain_1690, owc_mervyn, reggie1872, sevco_sammy, curry-my-yoghurt2k14...).

You name it!... I even sat at my laptop one day dressed up as Ian Paisley and wore my trousers up to my chin just to get into the spirit of things. But they always seem to catch on somehow and ban me again. What's a poor craitur to do? :angel:

[DannyInvincible]

In other news (sort of citizenship-related), after a few weeks of being sans passport, I finally received my nice, shiny new one last week and decided to have a proper look/read through it (does anyone actually do that?) as the design has changed. The current design was introduced towards the end of 2013, it seems, but some of the inclusions in this new document are interesting.

On the page opposite the photo page, there's now a topographical depiction of the entire island of Ireland (Tom Elliott wasn't a fan (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/ulster-unionist-tom-elliott-says-republic-of-irelands-decision-to-use-map-of-island-on-new-irish-passport-is-a-stupid-decision-29622521.html)) with accompanying text from Article 2 of an Bunreacht na hÉireann, as Gaeilge agus as Béarla:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/10726640_10204597546353224_917657019_n_zpsa3751ccb .jpg

GR might wish to write to the Passport Office in Dublin to have them update future versions with a clause-laden asterisk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-seventh_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland) after that! :P

There are also some charming cultural prints to be found on the visa pages.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/10933140_10204597545713208_1973437471_n_zps9f30d5c 8.jpg

An Grianan of Aileach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grianan_of_Aileach), which is an old stone ring-fort atop a hill at the gateway to the Inishowen peninsula just two minutes up the road from my family home, is depicted, so it's nice to have that reminder of the familial locality in there. Some claim you can see Scotland from An Grianan on a clear, sunny day, although I think that sounds a bit dubious, to be honest; everyone knows there are no such things as clear, sunny days in Ireland.

Most intriguing of all, however, is the inclusion of a wee bit of Ulster-Scots verse in there by James Orr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orr_%28poet%29):

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/10947593_10204597547153244_1516195631_n_zpsc581d64 d.jpg


The hedge-hauntin' blackbird, on ae fit whyles restin'
Wad fain heat the tither in storm-rufflet wing

I hadn't heard of him before, but, believe it or not, Orr was a Presbyterian of Scottish descent from Ballycarry in Antrim and participated in the 1798 rebellion as a member of the United Irishmen.

[punkrocket]

I thought the inclusion of the Aviva in all it's bedpan glory was a bit naff.
And is that picture of the boys in the boat supposed to represent the Giants Causeway (either on steroids or when there was less water to go around)?

[osarusan]

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/10726640_10204597546353224_917657019_n_zpsa3751ccb .jpg

Apart from the fact that the words come from the 19th amendment to the constitution, what exactly is the 'birthright and entitlement of every person born in the island of Ireland'....beyond a vague right to 'be part of the Irish Nation'?

The 27 amendment to the consitution made something of a lie of that, or am I missing something?

[DannyInvincible]

And is that picture of the boys in the boat supposed to represent the Giants Causeway (either on steroids or when there was less water to go around)?

I was wondering that myself but assumed it was a depiction of men out in a currach. Men of Aran, perhaps? The hexagonal rocks of the Giant's Causeway aren't actually as tall, steep and sharp as those in the print; even the ones on steroids!

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/20150126_162330_zps020ac755.jpg

Can anyone shed any light?


Apart from the fact that the words come from the 19th amendment to the constitution, what exactly is the 'birthright and entitlement of every person born in the island of Ireland'....beyond a vague right to 'be part of the Irish Nation'?

The 27 amendment to the consitution made something of a lie of that, or am I missing something?

No, you're completely right, which was my point and why I found the inclusion interesting. GR is always quick to correct anyone who commits the foul of repeating or paraphrasing the age-old stock line for the sake of brevity in argument. It always tickles me, but he is technically correct. :)

[geysir]

Apart from the fact that the words come from the 19th amendment to the constitution, what exactly is the 'birthright and entitlement of every person born in the island of Ireland'....beyond a vague right to 'be part of the Irish Nation'?

The 27 amendment to the consitution made something of a lie of that, or am I missing something?
Birthright is much more than a vague right, it a right bestowed upon by virtue of place of birth.
This birthright refers specifically to irish nationality and the 27th amendment to the constitution did not make a lie out of that, but merely added a condition.

[peadar1987]

The Skelligs maybe? World Heritage Site and all that.

[osarusan]

No, you're completely right, which was my point and why I found the inclusion interesting. GR is always quick to correct anyone who commits the foul of repeating or paraphrasing the age-old stock line for the sake of brevity in argument. It always tickles me, but he is technically correct. :)

Do you (or anybody else) know when this was added to the passport design? It seems like the kind of thing that would have been added in 1999, and removed in 2004 (unless it would be decided to put an asterisk or some other symbol to note that such birthright was now conditional).

Seems strange to design a passport with such a piece of text, in the knowledge that the text is now somewhat misleading, or does not give the full picture.

So I'm wondering when that became part of the design.

[Gather round]

GR is always quick to correct anyone...paraphrasing the age-old stock line for the sake of brevity in argument

That's the problem Danny. Your brief, snappy soundbites just don't cover all the details ;)

It may be the resolution on my old laptop, but the map in yer passport looks a bit odd. The Shannon seems to be flowing two ways, both South through Limerick and North into the Erne?

[peadar1987]

That's the problem Danny. Your brief, snappy soundbites just don't cover all the details ;)

It may be the resolution on my old laptop, but the map in yer passport looks a bit odd. The Shannon seems to be flowing two ways, both South through Limerick and North into the Erne?

There's a canal don'tcha know http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Erne_Waterway

[BonnieShels]

I was wondering that myself but assumed it was a depiction of men out in a currach. Men of Aran, perhaps? The hexagonal rocks of the Giant's Causeway aren't actually as tall, steep and sharp as those in the print; even the ones on steroids!

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/20150126_162330_zps020ac755.jpg

Can anyone shed any light?



It's the Skelligs.

http://derrynane.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/skelligMain.jpg

Anyone who has ever seen the (tiny) Giants Causeway in real life could never confuse it with that image.

On the left-hand outcrop of the passport illustration you can make out the spiraling pathway snaking up the side.


Do you (or anybody else) know when this was added to the passport design? It seems like the kind of thing that would have been added in 1999, and removed in 2004 (unless it would be decided to put an asterisk or some other symbol to note that such birthright was now conditional).

Seems strange to design a passport with such a piece of text, in the knowledge that the text is now somewhat misleading, or does not give the full picture.

So I'm wondering when that became part of the design.

I got one of the new-fangled biometric passports in 2009 and it was the same design in essence on the visa pages as all of the previous versions of the "burgundy" passports. Same as my EC one from 1996 and my other from 2003.


There's a canal don'tcha know http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Erne_Waterway

Sure, the Shannon and the Erne have been confused for an age. The etymology of Ballyshannon would indicate as much. The same warrior and/or Celtic goddess could well be convenient disguises for this error.

---

Any thoughts on the new passport card whilst we're at it?

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/passportcitizenship/Passport-Card-front-460x280px.jpg

https://www.dfa.ie/news-and-media/press-releases/press-release-archive/2015/january/minister-flanagan-announces-new-passport-card/

[Charlie Darwin]

No way that woman is 26.

[Eminence Grise]

Has nobody in the Passport Office heard of Georgia Salpa?

[DannyInvincible]

I got one of the new-fangled biometric passports in 2009 and it was the same design in essence on the visa pages as all of the previous versions of the "burgundy" passports. Same as my EC one from 1996 and my other from 2003.

My old one was valid from July of 2005, but I don't recall the constitutional passage being on it. In saying that, I didn't look at it all that closely when I last had it and it is now back in Ireland, so I might have completely missed it all this time. The novelty of a new one sparked my curiosity as to what was actually contained on those inner pages, so I suppose I took greater stock of what's in the new one. Do you mean that the "birthright and entitlement" passage has been on passports since at least 2003 then?

The present passport design was introduced in October of 2013.

[Charlie Darwin]

It's not on my 2012 passport.

[geysir]

The old hardback green one was a true flexible friend. The pages were sewn together with thread. If you had a page with a black mark to get rid of, or needed a page with a visa, you could replace a double fold page with a suitable one (with the right number) from another passport,sew it back together again and glue on the cover. It could look a few degrees more shoddy, but still within the realms of innocent wear and tear.

[Fixer82]

Was just looking at the new passport yesterday. Very classy indeed. Like the inclusion of Ulster Scots as well as nice sprinkling of verse in English and as Gaeilge and nice illustrations of Aviva Stadium, GAA, Aileach's Grianán etc.

[BonnieShels]

My old one was valid from July of 2005, but I don't recall the constitutional passage being on it. In saying that, I didn't look at it all that closely when I last had it and it is now back in Ireland, so I might have completely missed it all this time. The novelty of a new one sparked my curiosity as to what was actually contained on those inner pages, so I suppose I took greater stock of what's in the new one. Do you mean that the "birthright and entitlement" passage has been on passports since at least 2003 then?

The present passport design was introduced in October of 2013.

That might not have been clear. It's not on any older design.

The design of the pre-2013 edition has remained the same since the EC change over. ie. My 1996 (EC), 2003 (EU) and 2009 (EU-biometric) are all the same design inside. Bar the photo page and the addition of certain other European languages to the passport since EC-12.

[DannyInvincible]

An interesting piece by Malachy Clerkin on the origin and reception of 'Ireland's Call': http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ireland-s-call-standing-tall-for-20-years-1.2085759

[DeLorean]

What are the chances of Ireland's Call being used if Rory McIllroy wins gold in Rio? :o

I'm not mad about the song but it serves it's purpose I suppose. Sung passionately by supporters it just about gets away with it, maybe. Coulter was never the greatest lyricist from my fairly limited knowledge of him. This line out of The Town I Loved So Well always grated on me!


while the men on the dole played a mother's role, fed the children and then trained the dogs

[geysir]

In derryspeak that probably just means taking the dog for a walk.

The TILSW is quite simply an Irish ballad masterpiece and it has a sentiment that can travel and be deeply appreciated in any corner of the globe.

[DeLorean]

Yeah because in some versions they actually say "walk the dogs". I think it's a terrible line either way. I quite like the song otherwise.