Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Not Brazil]

Alex Bruce.

The problem with mercenary Bruce is that he refused a callup previously, making patronising/disparaging comments in the process...and when he found out he wasn't good enough for the South, he thought we'd all forget.

Perhaps someone has had a word in Nigel's ear - no Bruce in our squad for the forthcoming games v Serbia and Estonia.

So, any eligible player who wants to commit their future to our senior international side is more than welcome (provided they didn't turn their nose up at us earlier).

[Not Brazil]

Except it's :rolleyes: your goofy statements about players who're eligible for other teams and the political stance of the Northern electorate.


I don't consider I have made any "goofy comments" about "players who're eligible for other teams and the political stance of the Northern electorate".

It is, of course, your perogative to consider my comments "goofy".

That will not concern me in the least.

[DannyInvincible]

Our underage teams should be geared towards players who wish to progress and represent Northern Ireland at senior international level.

What if such a player's dream is never realised because of some English-born Johnny-come-lately taking the place he would have occupied, thereby also hampering his development?

[ifk101]

The problem with mercenary Bruce is that he refused a callup previously, making patronising/disparaging comments in the process...and when he found out he wasn't good enough for the South, he thought we'd all forget.

Alex Bruce. "I'm very flattered that Northern Ireland and the Republic are both showing an interest in me. But I think I'm going to pick the Republic purely because I think they are a better team.”

Patronising/ disparaging comments?


Perhaps someone has had a word in Nigel's ear - no Bruce in our squad for the forthcoming games v Serbia and Estonia.

Think again.


So, any eligible player who wants to commit their future to our senior international side is more than welcome (provided they didn't turn their nose up at us earlier).

...... and provided they don't keep you waiting for an answer.

[Not Brazil]

What if such a player's dream is never realised because of some English-born Johnny-come-lately taking the place he would have occupied, thereby also hampering his development?

Our senior squad being bettered by players wishing to commit to playing senior international football for Northern Ireland - eg, Lee Camp - is fine by me - provided they haven't previously snubbed us previously.

If an "English-born-Johnny-come-lately" was in our underage ranks, and had realistic ambitions of playing senior international football with another Association, I'd want him weeded out.

You never know - maybe some of your Northern Ireland born young starlets will have their dreams shattered, regarding playing senior international football for the South, by "English-born-Johnny-come-lately"s.

How do you feel about that?

[DannyInvincible]

I have libeled nobody.

I consider PSF & PIRA to be part of the same movement ie. the Provisional Movement.

That wasn't the issue, as you know. Yes, Sinn Féin are part of the provisional movement, but we were debating whether or not it was acceptable or appropriate to refer to McClean as a "provo" because of his stated support for Sinn Féin on his Facebook. You seem to think it's fine. I don't. I happen to feel that the intent to insult or offend behind what was a slur in the context was crucial. In the context, the derisive connotation was to insinuate that McClean was probably sectarian and of questionable moral fibre; it may as well have been an abbreviated form of "provo b*stard" such was the tone. It was intended as a smear or personal attack on the lad in an environment where such crap, if not lapped up by a sorry few, wouldn't cause much of a stir, pure and simple.

[Not Brazil]

Alex Bruce. "I'm very flattered that Northern Ireland and the Republic are both showing an interest in me. But I think I'm going to pick the Republic purely because I think they are a better team.”

Patronising/ disparaging comments?


"It was pleasing that I was wanted by national teams and Ive always had allegiances to the Republic because of the way I was brought up, so I supported them as well. When the chance came to play for the Republic, there was no decision really"

Funny how there's a decision now Alex, ain't it?

No thanks.

He wasn't in the squad named this morning.

[DannyInvincible]

Our senior squad being bettered by players wishing to commit to playing senior international football for Northern Ireland - eg, Lee Camp - is fine by me - provided they haven't previously snubbed us previously.

But why do the other poor deprived souls who've had their dreams so cruelly crushed by mercenaries no longer matter to you at this point?


You never know - maybe some of your Northern Ireland born young starlets will have their dreams shattered, regarding playing senior international football for the South, by "English-born-Johnny-come-lately"s.

How do you feel about that?

No problem with it whatsoever. Our diaspora is a fundamental and defining aspect of our national identity too. If another Irishman is a better footballer and more worthy of a place in our team than any other, fair enough. That's always been the way.

[Not Brazil]

That wasn't the issue, as you know. Yes, Sinn Féin are part of the provisional movement, but we were debating whether or not it was acceptable or appropriate to refer to McClean as a "provo" because of his stated support for Sinn Féin on his Facebook. You seem to think it's fine. I don't..

It's of little concern to me whether you find it "acceptable" or not.

I clarified my comments in detail.

I make no apology for them.

McClean is not "a Provo", on the basis that I don't believe him to be a member of the Provisional Movement.

He is, clearly, a Provo supporter, in that he expresses support for the Provisional Movement.

I'm happy to reword to "Provisional Movement supporter" - I told you that yesterday.

I suggest you google "Provisional Movement".

I don't know if McClean is sectarian or not- I do not claim that he is sectarian.

Nor do I consider all supporters of the Provisional Movement to be "*******s".

[ArdeeBhoy]

Keep on digging...

[Not Brazil]

But why do the other poor deprived souls who've had their dreams so cruelly crushed by mercenaries no longer matter to you at this point?


I thought we'd been through this.

Lee Camp never played for Northern Ireland, whilst harbouring ongoing ambitions to represent another Assocation at senior international level.

[Not Brazil]

Keep on digging...

Keep on throwing out meaningless chirps, to hide your seeming inability to deal with the substance.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm, if you say so....

More like you keep repeating the same contradictions & factual errors which is tedious enough in itself.

[Not Brazil]

Hmm, if you say so....

More like you keep repeating the same contradictions & factual errors which is tedious enough in itself.

It seems you are unwilling to, or incapable of, highlightling these "contradictions" and "factual errors" you speak of.

You're good at the "you're wrong" and "keep digging" stuff, but don't ever substatiate such comments - that's a shame really.

[Predator]

I thought we'd been through this.

Lee Camp never played for Northern Ireland, whilst harbouring ongoing ambitions to represent another Assocation at senior international level.Lee Camp is playing for NI as a second choice, occupying a space that you feel should be reserved for those who see NI as first choice. Stop whinging about the denial and deprivation of dreams if you're willing to accept it at senior level.

[Not Brazil]

Lee Camp is playing for NI as a second choice, occupying a space that you feel should be reserved for those who see NI as first choice. Stop whinging about the denial and deprivation of dreams if you're willing to accept it at senior level.

None of which counters/negates these sentiments, which you appear to be unable to grasp.

"Players in our under age set up who harbour realistic ambitions of switching to another Association at senior international level should be weeded out.

Our underage teams should be geared towards players who wish to progress and represent Northern Ireland at senior international level".

I really can't be any clearer than that.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It seems you are unwilling to, or incapable of, highlightling these "contradictions" and "factual errors" you speak of.

You're good at the "you're wrong" and "keep digging" stuff, but don't ever substatiate such comments

Except I (and more importantly numerous others) have done. You just choose to :rolleyes: ignore certain responses.

And certain points are so obvious eg. SF voters, except to the average passing ostrich or completely paranoid, they don't need substantiating...
;)

[awec]

Lee Camp is playing for NI as a second choice, occupying a space that you feel should be reserved for those who see NI as first choice. Stop whinging about the denial and deprivation of dreams if you're willing to accept it at senior level.
Oh. my. god.

PS: Disappointed this forum has no smiley smashing his head off a wall.

[Not Brazil]

Except I (and more importantly numerous others) have done. You just choose to :rolleyes: ignore certain responses.

And certain points are so obvious eg. SF voters, except to the average passing ostrich or completely paranoid, they don't need substantiating...
;)

I do my best to answer challenges as honestly as I can.

I believe there are, indeed, completely panarnoid passing ostriches commenting on the thread - but I'm not one of them.;)

[Predator]

None of which counters/negates these sentiments, which you appear to be unable to grasp.

"Players in our under age set up who harbour realistic ambitions of switching to another Association at senior international level should be weeded out.

Our underage teams should be geared towards players who wish to progress and represent Northern Ireland at senior international level".

I really can't be any clearer than that.What I have expressed is not an attempt to counter what you have said there. You are the one who is dodging the sentiment I raise. The problem I have is that you appear to be so worked up about those such as McClean/Duffy who are said to be denying dreams at underage level, but are willing to accept those English born lads who are also arguably (certainly, if the notion is to be taken seriously) denying dreams.

It completely undermines the alleged moral high-ground that many among the NI fanbase are trying to claim to support them.


Oh. my. god.

PS: Disappointed this forum has no smiley smashing his head off a wall.Thanks for the insight awec, you rarely let us down. Well done.

[osarusan]

The problem I have is that you appear to be so worked up about those such as McClean/Duffy who are said to be denying dreams at underage level, but are willing to accept those English born lads who are also arguably (certainly, if the notion is to be taken seriously) denying dreams.

The fundamental difference between the two cases (and it is a fundamental difference, however you look at it) is that in the case of the former, they are denying another player a place in a squad / team despite being unwilling to represent NI at senior level, while those in the latter category are denying others a place in the team /squad because of their willingness to represent NI at senior level.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So denials all round then??
;)

[DannyInvincible]

It's of little concern to me whether you find it "acceptable" or not.

Not to worry. Don't even mention it. I hadn't been the issue, thank God. :confused:

You've caught me somewhat tired and cranky this morn, however, and I do resent your running deceit with regard to this matter, along with the insincere accusation of paranoia you've since thrown at me. Rather than thinking of it as paranoid, think of it as being not completely pig-****ing-thick when I perceive this ( http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1522519&viewfull=1#post1522519) to be a shot directed at myself along with your attempted smoke-machine defence of the reference to James McClean as a "provo" as an insult to the intelligence of anyone who has bothered following your brazen efforts to obfuscate the issue and worm your way around it.


McClean is not "a Provo", on the basis that I don't believe him to be a member of the Provisional Movement.

I'll interpret that as an admission that the reference to McClean as a "provo" was inappropriate then...

And in case there's still some unwillingness on your part to acknowledge this, or a residual confusion as to why it was inappropriate - although I suspect it's more likely you're just playing dumb here - it was absolutely not because the idiot who disparaged McClean would and should have been "more accurate" in referring to an open Sinn Féin supporter as a "Provo/Provisional Movement supporter", a twisted and irrelevant straw man you've since spent a number of pages attempting to erect. We all know that was not the connotation behind the label used as it was on OWC. It was inappropriate for the following number of reasons; don't necessarily think of them as exhaustive.

Sinn Féin refer to themselves officially as just that; Sinn Féin. Note the missing word/letter. You won't find one mention of the word "Provisional" on their home page. They also outline the following in an introductory document (http://www.sinnfein.org/documents/intro.html):


The Sinn Fein which emerged in 1970 - popularly known at the time as 'Provisional' Sinn Fein - was to evolve through the '70s and ' 80s to the party we know today.

Couldn’t be more clear.

The PIRA are effectively defunct as an organisation and have been for a number of years. Take your pick from since either 1997 or 2005; whichever you prefer. Republican Sinn Féin, in terming themselves as they do, officially do any necessary distinguishing from Sinn Féin for you in their own title, thereby making it wholly surplus to requirements for you or anyone else to continue referring to Sinn Féin as "PSF". There is no ambiguity in the simple use of Sinn Féin nowadays. It is especially unnecessary outside of an intra-republican context where the two organisations aren't even being discussed at once, if even extra clarification would be necessary within such a context, except to also make some political point. Everyone knows who Sinn Féin are and to which organisation one would be referring when using that title. And do you really believe that RSF are a genuine political force or anything other than a peripheral organisation within contemporary Irish republicanism, never mind Irish politics generally? Or was your reference to their apparent increasing strength merely another attempt to further lead us down the garden path; to pretend that they have a level of popularity and influence (indeed miniscule in reality) approaching something that might even nearly challenge Sinn Féin's claim over the Sinn Féin title, thereby invoking some need for disambiguation? The whole need for distinction by use of "Provisional" or "P" has become redundant with time, yet you still try to hoodwink myself and others here that you adhere to the strict use of a completely superfluous and outmoded distinction at all times. Are we supposed to believe that you genuinely fear people might think you're actually referring to a virtual non-entity when you mention Sinn Féin without a prefix? I certainly don’t.

It is fairly obvious that anyone who derisively dubs someone a "provo" in the current political climate is doing so to make a snide political point. In the context of OWC, it was so obviously anything but neutral and was loaded with contemptuous and slanderous innuendo that I can't believe you're still trying to defend it via unrelenting faux-denial. I mean, why else would anyone even mention the term if not to make some cheap point? Could you imagine Sinn Féin assembly members being referred to as "provos" by their unionist counterparts up in Stormont? Of course not. Well, OK, I admit I wouldn’t put it past the likes of Jim Allister, but other than that...

Have a read of this: http://www.tuv.org.uk/press-releases/view/700/the-maze---another-massive-dup-climbdown-and-provo-victory

A story about the proposed conflict resolution centre on the old Maze site, and it's even tagged under "terrorism". It's abundantly clear the baggage the term "provo" carries in unionist circles, especially eccentric ones.

You’d think I was having a laugh if I started insulting you with various slurs that might be offensive to a unionist in certain contexts and then made it worse by blaming your sensitivity and paranoia for you taking offence because, after all, a unionist is exactly what you are. It'd be the height of ignorance and denial on my part. You surely must be aware that certain labels can have different meanings when used within different contexts and, depending on the intent behind them, might be considered pejorative in certain scenarios but not in others. I go back to the famous distinction between a white man referring to a black man as a "n*gger" and a black man referring a black man as a "n*gger". You think it would be acceptable for the white man to turn around and feign ignorance to the black man claiming, "But how can you get all worked up about this when a n*gger is exactly what you are?" You grew up in a region dogged by violent political conflict where verbal nuance was a public necessity in order to ensure various identities and sensitivities were respected, for God’s sake! It is important that unionists relinquish any last vestiges of that infamous culture of denial y'know. ;)

Now, it would help if you acknowledged what you've been doing.


Nor do I consider all supporters of the Provisional Movement to be "*******s".

Subtle. Only some of them then, aye? :rofl:

[Predator]

The fundamental difference between the two cases (and it is a fundamental difference, however you look at it) is that in the case of the former, they are denying another player a place in a squad / team despite being unwilling to represent NI at senior level, while those in the latter category are denying others a place in the team /squad because of their willingness to represent NI at senior level.That's obvious. However, there is absolutely no difference between the two cases when it comes to the notion of "dream-snatching".

[DannyInvincible]

That's obvious. However, there is absolutely no difference between the two cases when it comes to the notion of "dream-snatching".

Think of cries of dream-snatching as emotive masks to conceal self-interest when it suits.

[Predator]

Think of cries of dream-snatching as emotive masks to conceal self-interest when it suits.I've been coming to that conclusion all right. Just like the fairness argument.

[osarusan]

That's obvious. However, there is absolutely no difference between the two cases when it comes to the notion of "dream-snatching".
If your entire argument is only that they are both 'dream-snatching', without any interest whatsoever in any context which might make one seem acceptable and the other acceptable, then you are right, but only in the sense and to the extent that every footballer in the world who has earned an international cap, is 'dream-stealing.'

[Predator]

If your entire argument is only that they are both 'dream-snatching', without any interest whatsoever in any context which might make one seem acceptable and the other acceptable, then you are right, but only in the sense and to the extent that every footballer in the world who has earned an international cap, is 'dream-stealing.'Indeed, which is why it is redundant to complain about dream denial, as Not Brazil has done.

[osarusan]

Indeed, which is why it is redundant to complain about dream denial, as Not Brazil has done.
You choose not to differentiate between a player taking another player's place in a squad because he wants to play senior football for that country, and a player taking another player's place in a squad despite not wanting to play senior football for that country.

I think your decision not to differentiate is nonsense in the extreme.

[DannyInvincible]

a player taking another player's place in a squad despite not wanting to play senior football for that country.

Who actually does that though?

[Predator]

I think your decision not to differentiate is nonsense in the extreme.Yes I don't differentiate, because the principle of denying a dream is the same. You can think it's nonsense all you wish.

[osarusan]

Who actually does that though?

Although I've been careful to point out that it might be unfair to portray every player who has declared for ROI after some underage enxerience with NI as devious and calculating, I'm of the opinion that it would be naive to suggest that there hasn't been even one player who continued to join even one NI underage squad having decided that his allegiance lay with ROI. As no player so far has (been idiotic enough to) come out and admit this to be the case, I can't give you any name.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Red herring (sushi?) alert...

[Not Brazil]

What I have expressed is not an attempt to counter what you have said there. You are the one who is dodging the sentiment I raise. The problem I have is that you appear to be so worked up about those such as McClean/Duffy who are said to be denying dreams at underage level, but are willing to accept those English born lads who are also arguably (certainly, if the notion is to be taken seriously) denying dreams.


My angst for players like Duffy & McClean is that they represented Northern Ireland at underage levels, whilst harbouring ambitions to play for another Association at senior level.

Such minded players remaining in our underage setup should be weeded out, in favour of those with ambitions to represent Northern Ireland at senior international level.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's a good job for the North then, the English & SFA's amongst others, don't apply these same standards...
;)

[Not Brazil]

You've caught me somewhat tired and cranky this morn, however, and I do resent your running deceit with regard to this matter, along with the insincere accusation of paranoia you've since thrown at me. Rather than thinking of it as paranoid, think of it as being not completely pig-****ing-thick when I perceive this ( http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1522519&viewfull=1#post1522519) to be a shot directed at myself along with your attempted smoke-machine defence of the reference to James McClean as a "provo" as an insult to the intelligence of anyone who has bothered following your brazen efforts to obfuscate the issue and worm your way around it.



I'll interpret that as an admission that the reference to McClean as a "provo" was inappropriate then...

And in case there's still some unwillingness on your part to acknowledge this, or a residual confusion as to why it was inappropriate - although I suspect it's more likely you're just playing dumb here - it was absolutely not because the idiot who disparaged McClean would and should have been "more accurate" in referring to an open Sinn Féin supporter as a "Provo/Provisional Movement supporter", a twisted and irrelevant straw man you've since spent a number of pages attempting to erect. We all know that was not the connotation behind the label used as it was on OWC. It was inappropriate for the following number of reasons; don't necessarily think of them as exhaustive.

Sinn Féin refer to themselves officially as just that; Sinn Féin. Note the missing word/letter. You won't find one mention of the word "Provisional" on their home page. They also outline the following in an introductory document (http://www.sinnfein.org/documents/intro.html):



Couldn’t be more clear.

The PIRA are effectively defunct as an organisation and have been for a number of years. Take your pick from since either 1997 or 2005; whichever you prefer. Republican Sinn Féin, in terming themselves as they do, officially do any necessary distinguishing from Sinn Féin for you in their own title, thereby making it wholly surplus to requirements for you or anyone else to continue referring to Sinn Féin as "PSF". There is no ambiguity in the simple use of Sinn Féin nowadays. It is especially unnecessary outside of an intra-republican context where the two organisations aren't even being discussed at once, if even extra clarification would be necessary within such a context, except to also make some political point. Everyone knows who Sinn Féin are and to which organisation one would be referring when using that title. And do you really believe that RSF are a genuine political force or anything other than a peripheral organisation within contemporary Irish republicanism, never mind Irish politics generally? Or was your reference to their apparent increasing strength merely another attempt to further lead us down the garden path; to pretend that they have a level of popularity and influence (indeed miniscule in reality) approaching something that might even nearly challenge Sinn Féin's claim over the Sinn Féin title, thereby invoking some need for disambiguation? The whole need for distinction by use of "Provisional" or "P" has become redundant with time, yet you still try to hoodwink myself and others here that you adhere to the strict use of a completely superfluous and outmoded distinction at all times. Are we supposed to believe that you genuinely fear people might think you're actually referring to a virtual non-entity when you mention Sinn Féin without a prefix? I certainly don’t.

It is fairly obvious that anyone who derisively dubs someone a "provo" in the current political climate is doing so to make a snide political point. In the context of OWC, it was so obviously anything but neutral and was loaded with contemptuous and slanderous innuendo that I can't believe you're still trying to defend it via unrelenting faux-denial. I mean, why else would anyone even mention the term if not to make some cheap point? Could you imagine Sinn Féin assembly members being referred to as "provos" by their unionist counterparts up in Stormont? Of course not. Well, OK, I admit I wouldn’t put it past the likes of Jim Allister, but other than that...

Have a read of this: http://www.tuv.org.uk/press-releases/view/700/the-maze---another-massive-dup-climbdown-and-provo-victory

A story about the proposed conflict resolution centre on the old Maze site, and it's even tagged under "terrorism". It's abundantly clear the baggage the term "provo" carries in unionist circles, especially eccentric ones.

You’d think I was having a laugh if I started insulting you with various slurs that might be offensive to a unionist in certain contexts and then made it worse by blaming your sensitivity and paranoia for you taking offence because, after all, a unionist is exactly what you are. It'd be the height of ignorance and denial on my part. You surely must be aware that certain labels can have different meanings when used within different contexts and, depending on the intent behind them, might be considered pejorative in certain scenarios but not in others. I go back to the famous distinction between a white man referring to a black man as a "n*gger" and a black man referring a black man as a "n*gger". You think it would be acceptable for the white man to turn around and feign ignorance to the black man claiming, "But how can you get all worked up about this when a n*gger is exactly what you are?" You grew up in a region dogged by violent political conflict where verbal nuance was a public necessity in order to ensure various identities and sensitivities were respected, for God’s sake! It is important that unionists relinquish any last vestiges of that infamous culture of denial y'know. ;)

Now, it would help if you acknowledged what you've been doing.


My, you were cranky this morning DI.:D

To cut to the chase, in response to your, somewhat emotional, rant.

(P)SF and PIRA are part of the one movement ie. The Provisional Movement.

They form one body, with two heads. One being military, the other being their political apologists. They are inextricably linked. Many of the movement's political apologists in (P)SF have seen "active service" in PIRA.

There is no splitting of the two.

I acknowledge that the military wing of the Provisional Movement is currently dormant, and that the Movement have decided to persue their objectives through a political strategy only.

On the understanding that the military wing of the Movement would give up it's "armed struggle" and criminality, I was prepared to vote "YES" to the political apologists of the military wing (in some cases, individuals who served in the military wing eg, our Deputy First Minister) helping govern this part of the United Kingdom. I was also prepared to allow members of the military wing to be released from jail, under licence - individuals who committed henious crimes. Some of these individuals now sit in our Assembly, or get cushy jobs at Stormont as advisers.

So, in the interests of a brighter future for all of us, I was prepared to to forgive (for want of a better expression) the past, and "move on".

I will not, however, forget - or bow to those who wish to, conveniently, sweep the history of The Provisional Movement under the carpet.

I remain supportive of the current power sharing arrangements we have in Northern Ireland

However much you sream, whinge, kick up, gurn etc, I will not be changing my opinions about the Provisional Movement (Provos).

I would recommend you read "The Provos: The IRA and Sinn Fein" by Peter Taylor.

[Not Brazil]

It's a good job for the North then, the English & SFA's amongst others, don't apply these same standards...
;)

Ditto, it's a good job for the South.:D

You still don't get it though.

I bet you're a whizz at "Spot The Difference".

[co. down green]

One of the moderators over on 'Are We A Country' seems a little upset by McClean turning down the IFA call-up, although at least he didn't call him a Provo like NB.

Mr McLean abusing the IFA under age system as he touted himself out to John Delaney and the rest of the Tarmac crew

:)

[Not Brazil]

Although I've been careful to point out that it might be unfair to portray every player who has declared for ROI after some underage enxerience with NI as devious and calculating, I'm of the opinion that it would be naive to suggest that there hasn't been even one player who continued to join even one NI underage squad having decided that his allegiance lay with ROI. As no player so far has (been idiotic enough to) come out and admit this to be the case, I can't give you any name.

Shane Duffy:

"No disrespect to Northern Ireland, but I would rather be playing for my country."

Did "his country" only become "his country" after representing another country at Under 16, 17, 19, 21, "B" levels, and being in the squad at senior level?

Why wasn't he playing then for "his country", when he had the choice to do so all along- all he had do was pick up the phone to Dublin?

If there are any other players in the Northern Ireland underage setup who "would rather be playing for their country", they should be helped along the path to their country's FA.

I'd much prefer to have players representing Northern Ireland at underage level, who would rather play for Northern Ireland at senior international level - no disrespect to Duffy et al.

[Not Brazil]

One of the moderators over on 'Are We A Country' seems a little upset by McClean turning down the IFA call-up, although at least he didn't call him a Provo like NB.


I didn't call McClean a Provo.

I called him a Provo Supporter, later moderated to a supporter of the Provisional Movement (following discussion with DI), in line with comments posted by McClean himself on his Facebook page

[co. down green]

If there are any other players in the Northern Ireland underage setup who "would rather be playing for their country", they should be helped along the path to their country's FA.


It's clear that Lee Camp would rather be playing for his country !!!

Lee Camp January 2010 "Absolutely it is something I would aim for in the future, I would love to play for England," he said. "I have played at every level asides from the senior leve"l.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ditto, it's a good job for the South.

You still don't get it though.
Don't get what?
Your tedious repetitive hypocritical whinging? Or constant dysgeographica?

As for the 'comedy', don't give up the day job...
:rolleyes:

[Not Brazil]

It's clear that Lee Camp would rather be playing for his country !!!

Lee Camp January 2010 "Absolutely it is something I would aim for in the future, I would love to play for England," he said. "I have played at every level asides from the senior leve"l.

Yes, indeed.

Having become clear in his mind that he wasn't going to represent his country at senior international level, he decided to commit to our senior international team.

At no point did he represent our country whilst harbouring realistic ongoing ambitions to represent his country.

Therein lies the difference.

[ArdeeBhoy]

How do you know though??


As in the above point. The one this is immediately, er, below. Doh.

[Not Brazil]

How do you know though??

How do I know what?

[Not Brazil]

As in the above point. The one this is immediately, er, below. Doh.

That Camp decided to commit to our senior team?

Erm, because I watched him play for our senior team, which ended any ongoing ambitions he might of had of playing for England's senior international team.

Doh.

[co. down green]

Yes, indeed.

Having become clear in his mind that he wasn't going to represent his country at senior international level, he decided to commit to our senior international team.

At no point did he represent our country whilst harbouring realistic ongoing ambitions to represent his country.

Therein lies the difference.

http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/554/original/facepalm.jpg?1248715065

[ifk101]

At no point did he represent our country whilst harbouring realistic ongoing ambitions to represent his country.

Perhaps that's the point when NI born players switch - ie when their ambitions to represent their country become realistic. Otherwise they can't be accused of being any different from the Lee Camps of this World. Like Lee Camp, they perhaps feel their ambitions to represent their country are out of their reach (let's be honest about it - it's a massive step up from representing NI) so they settle for second best.

[Not Brazil]

Perhaps that's the point when NI born players switch - ie when their ambitions to represent their country become realistic. Otherwise they can't be accused of being any different from the Lee Camps of this World. Like Lee Camp, they perhaps feel their ambitions to represent their country are out of their reach (let's be honest about it - it's a massive step up from representing NI) so they settle for second best.

If Northern Irish born lads want to play for the South, the first step is for them to contact the FAI as their first port of call. Don't bother at all with the IFA.

Chase the dream. That's realistic.

Don't wear our shirt unless you want to play senior international football for Northern Ireland.

If it doesn't work at at underage level with the FAI, then they can let the IFA know they'd consider a switch, with ambitions of representing our senior international team.

Our underage setup cannot be allowed to continue being a breeding ground for bigger Association's senior international sides.

Actions to stop/limit this happening must be put in place.

Lee Camp wanted to play for England, and did so, until it became clear to him he wasn't likely to play at senior level for them.

[Mr_Parker]

http://www.thesocialclubni.com/the-social-club-ni#!__the-social-club-ni/blog/vstc6=mark-mcintosh/vstc13=the-enemy-within

Mark McIntosh is a leading sports journalist in NI for those that don't know him.