Eligibility Rules, Okay [Archive] - Page 120

Gather round

16/11/2013, 7:53 PM

Gillespie's promotion of his new autobiography. Does that imply he also has an old one?

No, it's a sensible of marketing of the book to stress how new it is (in terms of date of issue, rather than content). The latter is the usual, predictable mix of birds, booze and big gambling debts found in most books of its type.

Could Keith Gillespie possibly have enough material to keep the punters buying two autobiographies?

Probably not, he's insufficiently celebrated on the field or badly behaved off it. But nobody's touting volume two, except you.

I'm not sure how those statements can be reconciled. Supporting any international side and embracing an identity are inherently political acts, surely?

Not really. He started supporting NI aged seven or eight, as many of us do, through initial excitement, influence of family and school friends etc. Not because he recognised it as part of the same process as vote transfers in Donaghadee.

If Gillespie, or anyone else for that matter, was to "admit" that their politics coloured their football-thinking, what'd be the harm in that?

From Keef's POV, intent on at least a part-time career in football punditry, it might be thought best not to overdo the party politics. Blandness is safer.

Why does "politics" have to be a dirty word, as if this "malign" influence of politics upon our motives renders them impure or something?

He's not saying it's malign, merely that he's not really interested in it.

Lionel Ritchie

16/11/2013, 9:58 PM

I'm not sure how those statements can be reconciled. Supporting any international side and embracing an identity are inherently political acts, surely? If Gillespie, or anyone else for that matter, was to "admit" that their politics coloured their football-thinking, what'd be the harm in that? Why does "politics" have to be a dirty word, as if this "malign" influence of politics upon our motives renders them impure or something?

I dunno Danny, I don't think he's being especially coy here. He may genuinely not give a toss about the politics and yet his "default" disposition is Norn Iron much the same as mine is Ireland. He might not care less if loyal wee Ulster is subsumed and consumed by the potatoe-munching papist Republic tomorrow provided the team he cares about and which, from his perspective, so many love and have shared history with keeps going.

I can relate to that and I guess, in a sense, I agree with his analysis. I don't envisage a time when there'll be a single team representing Ireland -not even in the event of a politically agreed all-island, all-Ireland administrative arrangment (Jesus I nearly said 'Final Solution' there! :p). We HAVE an all Ireland team and anyone who wants to from Ireland can play for it. That's enough for me.

By the by, in the equally likely (as far as I can see) event we (grand "we", "royal we" even) rejoin the UK I'd expect to retain our team as well.

DannyInvincible

16/11/2013, 11:36 PM

I didn't mean it in the narrow sense of party politics. I meant it in the broader sense of an individual coming under the influence of and supporting a certain social structure or order, if you will, never mind an international football team. That's inherently political to me. "Default" dispositions can be political too. Not wanting his identity changed is an explicitly political stance, no? It's not even a passive stance in that it requires a degree of proactive thought. Not that I'm saying it's a bad thing or anything, nor was I accusing Gillespie of coyness at all. I think he just misuses the term, probably unwittingly, in conforming with the received wisdom. It was just the way he dismissed politics with his concerned clarification that caught my attention, lest anyone might think his motives were tainted, God forbid! If he didn't care about it, he wouldn't have mentioned it. If he said he was a die-hard loyalist and that supporting NI was part of such an identity for him, that'd be nothing to be ashamed of.

I'm just being a pedant. :)

DannyInvincible

17/11/2013, 12:48 PM

I happened to be having a look through the Equatoguinean football team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_team#Current_s quad) in light of their friendly against Spain last night and found it interesting that only three players of their 25-man squad were actually born in Equatorial Guinea. The remainder of the team hail variously from Spain, Brazil, Colombia and Cameroon with another from Côte d'Ivoire. Those from Spain are generally of Equatoguinean descent whilst the others tend to be naturalised citizens.

I think something might well have been lost in translation here, as the reference is in the Spanish language, but, rather amusingly, the Wikipedia article of one of the Colombian-born players, Jimmy Bermúdez, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Berm%C3%BAdez) outlines the following:

In May 2013, Bermúdez was purchased by the Equatoguinean football team, which he will represent and will get € 3,000 for each match played.

DannyInvincible

18/11/2013, 12:27 PM

I read TheScore.ie's follow-up piece on Gillespie's autobiography yesterday and he described himself as "very patriotic". That's political, isn't it? :)

ifk101

18/11/2013, 12:46 PM

liamoo11

18/11/2013, 1:24 PM

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/1117/487176-n-ireland-boss-struggling-to-find-new-players/

Might be of interest to some. O'Neill comments on the north's unsuccessful recruitment drive.

so david bell can be added to the group of irish internationals the IFA poached along with scannell, bruce, o gorman

DannyInvincible

18/11/2013, 4:38 PM

Scannell hasn't switched, nor has he expressed any present intention to do so, to the best of my knowledge.

The list of players going the other way is lengthy enough. Just off the top of my head, there's been Alex Bruce, Gerard Doherty, Shane McEleney, Paddy McEleney, Johnny Gorman and Ryan Brobbel. Tony Kane and Michael O'Connor also reverted back after joining up with our set-up for a spell each. Am I missing anyone?

Or more importantly, can we howl that the floodgates have opened yet?

Charlie Darwin

18/11/2013, 5:01 PM

Hands off our boys!

NeverFeltBetter

18/11/2013, 5:56 PM

It's a disgrace Joe.

Charlie Darwin

01/12/2013, 2:19 PM

Ulster's Alex Bruce isn't looking too bad in a three-man defence vs Liverpool.

Gather round

01/12/2013, 3:05 PM

Ulster's Alex Bruce isn't looking too bad in a three-man defence vs Liverpool

Excellent news. He must be challenging for a place in our back three ahead of Rory McArdle or Ryan McGivern.

I met the latter briefly while passing through George Best airport the other day. "Who's that in your pocket Ryan- Nani or Ronaldo?"

ArdeeBhoy

01/12/2013, 4:48 PM

Yes, this is only the third time you've told this 'story' in a public domain...
:rolleyes:
Originally you told me, you happened to just spot him.

DannyInvincible

01/12/2013, 5:00 PM

Could one be 100 per cent certain they weren't just looking at the beacon light atop the air traffic control tower?

http://e0.365dm.com/13/04/660x350/McGivern_2935803.jpg?20130716101338

Gather round

01/12/2013, 5:59 PM

Could one be 100 per cent certain they weren't just looking at the beacon light atop the air traffic control tower?

http://e0.365dm.com/13/04/660x350/McGivern_2935803.jpg?20130716101338

He's much less bleached/ albino in reallife :cool:

ArdeeBhoy

01/12/2013, 7:05 PM

Hmm. We don't share the same fixation or fascination though.
:eek:

SkStu

03/12/2013, 11:41 PM

This fell off the main page. For shame.

Wanted to post about Paddy McCourt who scored another wonder goal today (by all accounts, haven't seen it). From my perspective, of all the players born in the north who might have wanted to play for us, he is the one that got away. Glorious talent.

ArdeeBhoy

04/12/2013, 3:39 AM

And totally inconsistent.

Stuttgart88

04/12/2013, 7:02 AM

Stu, McCourt's goal is on the score.ie.

SwanVsDalton

04/12/2013, 8:19 AM

Worth basking in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LA20on3dTc

nigel-harps1954

04/12/2013, 11:42 AM

Interview with Shane O'Neill of USA u-20 team, born in Cork in the Star today. A decent read. Himself and his brother Darragh both harbour hopes of playing for Ireland, but Shane may yet get a call up to the USA team for the World Cup.

DannyInvincible

04/12/2013, 6:26 PM

Any more info on his brother Darragh? He seems to be better known for his American football ability if this is him?: http://www.buffzone.com/cu-news/ci_22918762/football-cu-buffs-darragh-oneill-aiming-high

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site21/2013/0401/20130401__02DCSBUFW.jpg

NeverFeltBetter

04/12/2013, 10:41 PM

Is it still a thing in American Football where High schools and colleges headhunt Europeans for kicking duties?

DannyInvincible

05/12/2013, 11:40 AM

Are there many Europeans, who wouldn't have moved to the US during infancy or childhood, playing in the NFL? Didn't British sprinter Dwayne Chambers play NFL at one point? Was Darragh O'Neill born in Ireland like his brother? He may well have been, but it certainly seems he was raised in the US from an early age.

Charlie Darwin

05/12/2013, 12:18 PM

Chambers played in NFL Europe, as well as trying out rugby league. He had a lot of time on his hands.

Fixer82

05/12/2013, 2:54 PM

The pass back to him is class

DannyInvincible

05/12/2013, 5:21 PM

The pass back to him is class

Which pass back and to whom?

SkStu

05/12/2013, 5:57 PM

Which pass back and to whom?

the guy who passed the ball back to McCourt for his latest wonder goal.

DannyInvincible

05/12/2013, 6:07 PM

the guy who passed the ball back to McCourt for his latest wonder goal.

Ah, yes, indeed. :)

I like how the defender just outside the box is so mesmerised by McCourt's leg movements (at least, I think they're human legs) that he just falls out of the way.

IsMiseSean

05/12/2013, 6:52 PM

Shane may yet get a call up to the USA team for the World Cup.

Klinsmann hands out caps like they're chocolate, so it could be a real possibility. Hopefully MON or Roy pick up the phone...

DannyInvincible

05/12/2013, 7:17 PM

Charlie Darwin

05/12/2013, 7:40 PM

I think this all hinges on how much Shane O'Neill likes chocolate. If he's a chocoholic, we're in trouble.

SkStu

05/12/2013, 9:10 PM

presumably because our FA is only interested in doling out fudge :)

nigel-harps1954

05/12/2013, 9:55 PM

He might hand out caps like chocolate, but will he be handing out World Cup call-ups like chocolate? Is there some foundation to your speculation, Nigel? I just don't see a competitively-uncapped Colorado Rapids 20-year-old heading to the World Cup, or am I underestimating the next biggest thing since Fraddy Adu?

It was mentioned in the article that he was on the verge of being called up. Take it how you wish from The Star, but he's in the running for MLS young player of the year, or something to that effect.

Grafter

07/12/2013, 8:43 PM

I was reading of our management team's relentless pursuit of Nathan Redmond today and it got me thinking....

Has any player gone on record to say that it is their ambition to represent England, they are holding out for England etc... only for them to select Ireland at a later date? Redmond would be a first wouldn't he if he did declare for us after so categorically nailing himself to England previously....

Charlie Darwin

07/12/2013, 9:14 PM

I can't think of any off-hand, but I'm sure there have been some. There was Alex Bruce's infamous (paraphrasing) "I won't be able to play for England, but I'm eligible for Ireland and Northern Ireland and Ireland are better."

ArdeeBhoy

08/12/2013, 1:39 AM

Has any player gone on record to say that it is their ambition to represent England, they are holding out for England etc... only for them to select Ireland at a later date? Redmond would be a first wouldn't he if he did declare for us after so categorically nailing himself to England previously....

Andy Townsend is perhaps the most obvious example? He even supported them v.us in Euro'88, before ever being selected...

Obviously there's 'Lawro', but don't want to dignify his warped view of the world.

Oh and Kevin Gallen's family called him,'The Brit'...:rolleyes:

gastric

08/12/2013, 4:48 AM

Interesting article about Northern born artists and their description of their identity. Varied, clever and complicated are words that come to mind. And what about the flag, I actually think the colours compliment each other!

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/nailing-their-colours-to-the-mast-1.1619432?page=3

geysir

08/12/2013, 8:48 AM

ArdeeBhoy

08/12/2013, 9:18 AM

geysir

08/12/2013, 10:58 AM

Plenty. Clearly you've not heard his frequent use of 'we' when talking about them...including during games, or tournaments.

And 'classiest player' who declared;he was just selected. He had nothing to 'declare'...
;)
He was selected but he still had to choose to come.

Having a pop at Lawrenson over his use of the "we" is about as corny and ignorant and as it gets for an Irish supporter. He's English born and bred, had an Irish grandparent. He was the classiest player ever to declare for us, he could have been with England for 2 world cups, and he has NEVER expressed a regret about his choice to declare for us and has always stated his pride in playing for us through the thick and the thin. That answers the question that was asked.

peadar1987

08/12/2013, 12:02 PM

Plenty. Clearly you've not heard his frequent use of 'we' when talking about them...including during games, or tournaments.

And 'classiest player' who declared;he was just selected. He had nothing to 'declare'...
;)

Oh come on, just because you can also identify with England doesn't mean you can't also be proud of your Irishness. How many times do I have to say the exact same thing in this thread?!!

Bungle

08/12/2013, 12:03 PM

Read the question AB.
Did Lawrenson ever say (or silently hope) that it was his desire to play for England before he declared for Ireland?
He was the classiest player ever to declare for us. He did that while he was at Preston.
He would have been a first choice player for England and got to 2 world cups. I've not even heard since, state any regrets about his decision to declare for us. What's warped about that?

Agreed. Lawrenson and Hansen were arguably the two best defenders in the world for a long period of the 80's. The guy would have walked into the English team, as would quite a number of our players from that era. I totally understand how he would feel both English and Irish. It is naive and unfair to criticise him for referring to England as "us" or "we"...he does the same when Ireland are playing.

Fixer82

08/12/2013, 12:35 PM

Grafter

08/12/2013, 5:08 PM

I've no huge problem with English born players saying 'we' when referring to England as they grew up there and have a connection to the place. When Dave O'Leary does it though it really irks me. Though we haven't seem him in a while on tv

To be fair, with the likes of O' Leary and Ronnie Whelan I can understand how they'd have an "identity crisis". They've lived over there since mid-teens, possibly wives and children are English born and raised etc.... I certainly think such fellas are more in tune with the UK than Ireland at this stage and that's understandable to some extent. Nurture over nature.

geysir

08/12/2013, 5:48 PM

i'd be with Fixer, the identity stain of your formative years runs deep,
certainly deeper than an acquired crummy english one. :D

Fixer82

09/12/2013, 12:19 AM

To be fair, with the likes of O' Leary and Ronnie Whelan I can understand how they'd have an "identity crisis". They've lived over there since mid-teens, possibly wives and children are English born and raised etc.... I certainly think such fellas are more in tune with the UK than Ireland at this stage and that's understandable to some extent. Nurture over nature.

No way. Not after all them derbies they had in the late 80s and early 90s. There's no way they should be saying 'we' when referring to England. Never heard Ronnie saying it though. Has he referred to England as 'we'?

p.s. i remember reading an article years ago about Whelan's home life when he was nearing the end of his playing days with Liverpool. A human interest story I guess you'd call it. And it said that the kids spoke bits of Irish in the home, 'Dún an doras', that type of thing.
Friends of mine have told me back in the day when they'd go over to Liverpool and if Ronnie did anything wrong on the pitch the anti-Irish stick he'd get from the Kop would be ridiculous.
I think it's safe to say Whelan never had an 'identity crisis'.

Charlie Darwin

09/12/2013, 12:38 AM

I've never heard David O'Leary call England 'we.' Then again, he was born there.

Bungle

09/12/2013, 7:30 AM

No way. Not after all them derbies they had in the late 80s and early 90s. There's no way they should be saying 'we' when referring to England. Never heard Ronnie saying it though. Has he referred to England as 'we'?

p.s. i remember reading an article years ago about Whelan's home life when he was nearing the end of his playing days with Liverpool. A human interest story I guess you'd call it. And it said that the kids spoke bits of Irish in the home, 'Dún an doras', that type of thing.
Friends of mine have told me back in the day when they'd go over to Liverpool and if Ronnie did anything wrong on the pitch the anti-Irish stick he'd get from the Kop would be ridiculous.
I think it's safe to say Whelan never had an 'identity crisis'.

I lived in liverpool back then. There used to be Celtic-Rangers chants among different groups of people in the Kop. Normally it was good natured and to be honest there was probably a bit more support for Celtic, but among the Rangers fringe of Scousers, there was a very anti-irish feeling. Ronnie definitely got a bit of that. Though I do remember Rush getting a lot of Welsh stick in his first breakthrough season when he was pretty crap.

Lionel Ritchie

09/12/2013, 12:17 PM

Andy Townsend is perhaps the most obvious example? He even supported them v.us in Euro'88, before ever being selected...

Obviously there's 'Lawro', but don't want to dignify his warped view of the world.

Oh and Kevin Gallen's family called him,'The Brit'...:rolleyes: Townsend DID say he watched the Euro 88 game in a bar while on holidays and was supporting England. However his case is a poor answer to Grafters question. He did not 'hold out for England'. On the basis of all available evidence he came over to play for us the very first time he was asked and was pleased and honoured to do so.

Neither he nor Lawro owe us any more than the towering effort they put into it when in the green shirt.

Kevin Gallens case is different but not unique -in fact Brian McDermott is in the same boat where basically pressure was applied directly by the clubs involved to accept call ups to England underage squads for the clubs own good reasons. It's a pity -but that's where they found themselves.