Eligibility Rules, Okay

[DannyInvincible]

For a sec there, I thought you were saying the Telegraph had claimed Daniel O'Donnell as one of their own, but it wasn't to be... :(

[DannyInvincible]

Dundee United are reported to be considering Michael O'Neill as a replacement for their current manager who'll be leaving at the end of the season: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21173186

[ArdeeBhoy]

You could hardly blame him for leaving.

Also see our own Rotund Fool is accusing another poster of being me on the CA thread...
These people really are Deluded!

[BonnieShels]

Brian Kerr into the breach again?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Again?

Lawrie Sanchez would be more likely. Or even a 'left-wing unionist', FFS.
:rolleyes:

[BonnieShels]

Again?

Lawrie Sanchez would be more likely. Or even a 'left-wing unionist', FFS.
:rolleyes:

I say again in that he's constantly linked with it.

Agent O'Neill has done well. I think Agent Kerr will take it to the next level.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Here's hoping...

[DannyInvincible]

"‘O’Neill will give players a chance’ - states Lafferty": http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/sport/football/round-up/o-neill-will-give-players-a-chance-states-lafferty-1-4683042


BURNLEY’S Danny Lafferty believes that Northern Irish footballers declaring for the Republic of Ireland could be a thing of the past.

The former Derry City full back and current international believes that with Northern Ireland you have more of a chance of playing at the highest level.

“On a personal point of view there is a lot more opportunities with Northern Ireland rather than playing with the Republic of Ireland,” conceded Lafferty.

“With Michael O’Neill as manager, he will give youth a chance and won’t be afraid to bring them into the squad.”

The attack minded left-back has now gone on to make two appearances for Northern Ireland coming up against Azerbaijan and powerhouses of international football Holland.

He has featured at all levels of football for Northern Ireland and is one part of a Londonderry trio – Paddy McCourt and Shane Ferguson - who have featured in recent Northern Ireland squads.

With a lot of players declaring for the Republic of Ireland in the past and Michael O’Neill recently coming out in the press declaring he doesn’t want any more defections.

Lafferty believes that the footballers playing options would be limited if they went to play for the Republic of Ireland.

One of the main features of the Northern Ireland team under Michael O’Neill is the wide selection of players used and considered, with O’Neill scouting and improving his squad selection.

“In my opinion, the majority that declare for the South are more optimistic than realistic. With the North you’ll be given a chance to play.

“Michael’s been doing a lot of work in increasing the size of player pool that he has for selection.

“He has done this through better communications with places like the North West which will no doubt improve and benefit the future campaigns and squads of Northern Ireland.”

[BonnieShels]

So it's the opportunity of playing international football rather than a chance of playing for your country is what young guys playing football who were born in Derry/Fermanagh/Tyrone/Antrim/Down/Armagh that should have as their priority?

Seem's legit.

[DannyInvincible]

Just saw that Predator mentioned this guy, Shane O'Neill, in the 'U21 VS Holland' thread: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_O%27Neill_%28soccer%29

Had never heard of him before. He was born in Cork but has represented the US at under-20 level. Have we ever have a player born in Ireland (excluding those born north of the border) represent another international team?

[BonnieShels]

Just saw that Predator mentioned this guy, Shane O'Neill, in the 'U21 VS Holland' thread: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_O%27Neill_%28soccer%29

Had never heard of him before. He was born in Cork but has represented the US at under-20 level. Have we ever have a player born in Ireland (excluding those born north of the border) represent another international team?

Surely over the years there must have been someone who represented Scotland/Wales/England?

EDIT: Now I understand the question. Forgeddaboudit.

[DannyInvincible]

Not England anyway, by the looks of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_international_footballers_born_out side_of_England

Willie Maley from Newry played for Scotland in 1893: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scotland_international_footballers_born_ou tside_Scotland

Anyone heard of a William Harrison? Represented Wales but was Irish, apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wales_international_footballers_born_outsi de_of_Wales

[The Fly]

"‘O’Neill will give players a chance’ - states Lafferty": http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/sport/football/round-up/o-neill-will-give-players-a-chance-states-lafferty-1-4683042

Thank you Danny (Lafferty, not Invincible) for stating the obvious.

[BonnieShels]

You're missing the word "bleedin'" there lad.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Wonder how soon McLaughlin will regret his decision...

[Bungle]

Big pity if McLaughlin plays for the north. He's meant to be a big republic fan, but I suppose he's built up friendships in the north's system and doesn't want to let people down or maybe he doesn't want to put his family in any bother by declaring for us. Anyhow, good luck to the lad.

[Olé Olé]

Big pity if McLaughlin plays for the north. He's meant to be a big republic fan, but I suppose he's built up friendships in the north's system and doesn't want to let people down or maybe he doesn't want to put his family in any bother by declaring for us. Anyhow, good luck to the lad.

His position draws interesting comparisons with someone like Niall McGinn. McGinn is an ROI fan playing for the North. But McGinn's development was mostly in Ireland, whereas McLaughlin's potential is being lauded at one of the (historically) biggest clubs in England. As it stands, McLaughlin is far more likely to win senior caps for Ireland than McGinn was at his age, and probably even is now.

It's not too late for McLaughlin anyway, as we've seen in the past courtesy of Shane Duffy's switch. But being under Michael O'Neill's wing could sway him to commit to the North.

[Predator]

As has been noted previously, O'Neill and the IFA's strategy now has seemingly become one of 'dream-dashing'. In order to persuade those who are currently in and around the FAI set up to switch to the IFA, or those who are considering changing, they must be in constant contact, reminding the player that they are not good enough to achieve their dream.

"He was torturing me for a wee while to be honest (about switching association), but now I'm going to go see what it's all about." - Shane McEleney

Both the McEleney brothers had been relatively active at under age level for the FAI, earning a fair few U19 caps between them and one U21 cap for Shane. As far as I understand, they had both been on stand by for the previous U21 campaign and I'm almost certain that Patrick would have been included in the recent U21 squad had he not switched.

Enter O'Neill, who sells playing for Northern Ireland as a pragmatic choice rather than one of passion. It's a simple, but effective, strategy and one feels that it is arguably what is keeping McLaughlin within the NI set up at present. The OWC used to talk about the seedy FAI supposedly having their 'tongue in the ear' of young so-called nationalist players. Perhaps O'Neill picked up that habit in Dublin with Shamrock Rovers. :rolleyes:

[DannyInvincible]

Noel King tried to persuade McEleney not to switch, so he definitely had future plans for him.

[Olé Olé]

Enter O'Neill, who sells playing for Northern Ireland as a pragmatic choice rather than one of passion. It's a simple, but effective, strategy and one feels that it is arguably what is keeping McLaughlin within the NI set up at present. The OWC used to talk about the seedy FAI supposedly having their 'tongue in the ear' of young so-called nationalist players. Perhaps O'Neill picked up that habit in Dublin with Shamrock Rovers. :rolleyes:

Interesting one that. The issue of identity gets kicked around here quite a lot. It's an interesting one to identify as nationalist but play for NI. Clearly, pragmatism and careerism provide the foundation for the decisions of the McEleney's et al. But is it really possible to identify as nationalist, whilst representing a side that in range of aspects, could be deemed completely at odds with your own beliefs? I've had a few posters jump down my throat when I make inferences like this, because this sort of attitude could be viewed as being contrary to someone's right to an identity.

If someone is a nationalist and supports Ireland, whilst living in the North, yet pull on the NI jersey, can they really be deemed nationalist? Does the term 'nationalist' not owe a significant degree of it's meaning and significance to the notion of a united Ireland? In which case someone saying their nationalist and pulling on the NI can't be referred to as such, no?

[DannyInvincible]

I would find it impossible to reconcile playing for NI with my own nationalist identity. But then, identity is a complex realm, professional football isn't my career and playing football for a certain team doesn't necessarily have to amount to an expression of that team's national identity for the player concerned.

Some interesting comments from Eugene Ferry, Shane McEleney and Niall McGinn on their experience as nationalists playing for NI: http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1619124&viewfull=1#post1619124

[Olé Olé]

Reading those comments, I just can't help but think why McGinn doesn't just abstain from playing for the North. If it's only a game of football then why doesn't he get these same mates around for a game of 5 a-side when he makes the trip home to Tyrone? Players might want to receive international recognition, but if a player also identifies themselves as a nationalist, then consequently, they themselves can not view playing for NI as 'international' recognition, can they?

I can't help but wonder what fuels Michael O'Neill to whisper into the ear of these types of players. Is he seeking to have the best players at his disposal in a calculated fashion for the interests of his career? Or does he simply Northern Irish and views himself as such?

[Sullivinho]

I would find it impossible to reconcile playing for NI with my own nationalist identity. But then, identity is a complex realm, professional football isn't my career and playing football for a certain team doesn't necessarily have to amount to an expression of that team's national identity for the player concerned.


Reading those comments, I just can't help but think why McGinn doesn't just abstain from playing for the North. If it's only a game of football then why doesn't he get these same mates around for a game of 5 a-side when he makes the trip home to Tyrone? Players might want to receive international recognition, but if a player also identifies themselves as a nationalist, then consequently, they themselves can not view playing for NI as 'international' recognition, can they?

As someone who'd rather play strip twister in prison than a game on behalf of the North, I have to wonder how much is 'international recognition' by a minnow worth, professionally? Would McGinn and co. be able to use it as leverage during contract negotiations and such? I know potential international caps are often included in transfer agreements as regards a player's future value. Professional tact > personal ambition?

[Not Brazil]

As for your own flag, it's a modified Union flag that, with the exception of one colour, adheres to the exact design specifications of a Union flag for obvious reasons; to convey a message that NI is British and proud. Or do you possess it for some other reason?

I see Cliftonville fans were portraying to Sky viewers yesterday evening how "British and proud" they are.

Look at the modified Union flag that, with the exception of one colour, adheres to the exact design specifications of a Union flag for obvious reasons:

http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy337/Mr_Parker2009/20130126_193109_zps76e57b01.jpg

[DannyInvincible]

Maybe Cliftonville have some supporters who are proud to identify as British. Or it's more likely a p*ss-take.

[Bungle]

I can understand how alot of lads declare for the North, if they know in their hearts they aren't going to get game time for us. From a career perspective, it is better for you to play for the North against Portugal or Spain, then be sitting on your sweeney at home. I keep a close eye on the academies in England, from an Irish perspective, and I would say that McLaughlin is one of the stand out players in the youth system in England. If he keeps his progression, he has the class to be an excellent player in the future. It would be a great shame not to get him on board for us, as he would appear to be a big ROI fan. Anyhow, all is not lost and he may still end up playing with us. Regardless, good luck to the lad.

[Olé Olé]

I can understand how alot of lads declare for the North, if they know in their hearts they aren't going to get game time for us. From a career perspective, it is better for you to play for the North against Portugal or Spain, then be sitting on your sweeney at home. I keep a close eye on the academies in England, from an Irish perspective, and I would say that McLaughlin is one of the stand out players in the youth system in England. If he keeps his progression, he has the class to be an excellent player in the future. It would be a great shame not to get him on board for us, as he would appear to be a big ROI fan. Anyhow, all is not lost and he may still end up playing with us. Regardless, good luck to the lad.

In light of the recent craic with the McEleney's et al, I wish someone from the FAI would just pick up the phone and express interest. Although, I'd imagine it's been done already.

Brendan Rodgers being the manager at Liverpool, in light of his comments last year regarding Anton, could be another obstacle to this.

[Newryrep]

In light of the recent craic with the McEleney's et al, I wish someone from the FAI would just pick up the phone and express interest. Although, I'd imagine it's been done already.

Brendan Rodgers being the manager at Liverpool, in light of his comments last year regarding Anton, could be another obstacle to this.I

I believe the FAI do accept incomming calls

[Olé Olé]

I

I believe the FAI do accept incomming calls

That's re-assuring. Give me one moment to practice my best Nordie accent and leave a voicemail saying I'm Ryan McLaughlin and to get back to me asap.

[DannyInvincible]

'Michael O'Neill: I would never criticise James McClean for turning down Northern Ireland': http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/ireland/2013/01/28/3706755/michael-oneill-i-would-never-criticise-james-mcclean-for-turning-


Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill has said that he would not criticise James McClean for choosing to play for the Republic of Ireland and stressed that he would speak with 'any player at any age level' in order to persuade them to play for Northern Ireland.

Since taking over the reins from Nigel Worthington, O'Neill has been actively encouraging players to opt for Northern Ireland at senior international level and has succeeded in persuading former Republic of Ireland youth internationals David McDaid Shane McEleney and Patrick McEleney to switch association.

"I deal with any player at any age level," O'Neill told the Derry Journal. "I will meet with that player and if necessary I will meet with his parents to outline why I believe they'd be better served to play for Northern Ireland.

"I took this approach with Shane and Patrick McEleney and they both agreed to play for Northern Ireland."

However, the former Shamrock Rovers boss failed to convince Sunderland winger James McClean that his interests would be 'better served' with the Northern Ireland team. Nevertheless, O'Neill conceded that the former Derry City player had 'every right' to make the decision to play for Giovanni Trapattoni's Boys in Green.

He continued: "I did the same with James McClean but unfortunately I wasn't successful. James had already made his decision before I was able to talk to him.

"James has every right to make his own decision and I would never criticise him for that. I'd hoped he would reconsider and play for Northern Ireland but that wasn't the case.

"It's part of football and you have to deal with it in a professional manner and move on. I have spoken to James subsequently and I have wished him well in his career," added the Northern Ireland boss.

[BonnieShels]

BLAH!!!

Hands of our kids etc.

[Gather round]

]If someone is a nationalist and supports Ireland, whilst living in the North, yet pull on the NI jersey, can they really be deemed nationalist?

Aye, no contradiction there. They're playing for a football team, not joining a UKIP/ DUP cabinet.


Does the term 'nationalist' not owe a significant degree of it's meaning and significance to the notion of a united Ireland?

Not necessarily. Most political parties in the South, broadly supported by public opinion, have done next to nothing for 90 years to redraw the border, let alone remove it entirely. So it would be harsh, hypocritical even, to tell someone that an injury time sub appearance in a friendly means they can't be a proper Fenian. No?


how much is 'international recognition' by a minnow worth, professionally? Would McGinn and co. be able to use it as leverage during contract negotiations and such? I know potential international caps are often included in transfer agreements as regards a player's future value. Professional tact > personal ambition?

International caps for England or Italy are worth a great deal commercially, for Northern Ireland or Slovenia much less, the South somewhere in the middle. That said, for a potential future star early appearances can be significant- for example Jonny Evans debuted against a Spain side including Raul, Xavi, Torres and co. and immediately looked at home.


I can understand how alot of lads declare for the North, if they know in their hearts they aren't going to get game time for us

Indeed, see also the numerous players in your squad from outside Ireland- which obviously makes it even harder for guys from NI to get into it.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And this adds exactly what to the debate?
Apart from the sum total of Zero, given you've said all this numerous times before...
:rolleyes:

Though you clearly need to consult an atlas to see there's no European country (or even mediocre football team) with the word 'South' in...
;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Interesting one that. The issue of identity gets kicked around here quite a lot. It's an interesting one to identify as nationalist but play for NI. Clearly, pragmatism and careerism provide the foundation for the decisions of the McEleney's et al. But is it really possible to identify as nationalist, whilst representing a side that in range of aspects, could be deemed completely at odds with your own beliefs? I've had a few posters jump down my throat when I make inferences like this, because this sort of attitude could be viewed as being contrary to someone's right to an identity.

If someone is a nationalist and supports Ireland, whilst living in the North, yet pull on the NI jersey, can they really be deemed nationalist? Does the term 'nationalist' not owe a significant degree of it's meaning and significance to the notion of a united Ireland? In which case someone saying their nationalist and pulling on the NI can't be referred to as such, no?

Hopefully not me? Though notice someone had a go, albeit in a very circular way...


I see Cliftonville fans were portraying to Sky viewers yesterday evening how "British and proud" they are.

Look at the modified Union flag that, with the exception of one colour, adheres to the exact design specifications of a Union flag for obvious reasons:

http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy337/Mr_Parker2009/20130126_193109_zps76e57b01.jpg

It's called 'irony'.

Like Linfailed and their French tricolours...
:rolleyes:

[Gather round]

Just for the record, Professor Ardee has made a whopping 578 posts to this thread. You should publish the edited highlights as a PhD thesis in three volumes.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well even one of my posts would be more fascinating than the aggregate total of the same, erm, circular 'argument'...
;)

Anyway, thought you said you were going elsewhere for 'kicks'?

[DannyInvincible]

Posting habit stats? Where can these be attained? Perhaps I'd be best not looking at mine!

[ArdeeBhoy]

I think someone with too much time on their hands counted mine...
:rolleyes:

[Crosby87]

What would Arthur be getting his PhD in? Is there a doctorate for sexy internet posting?

[ifk101]

International caps for England or Italy are worth a great deal commercially

Not at all. What a player does at club level determines their market value. An international cap for said countries is just recognition of this.


for Northern Ireland or Slovenia much less, the South somewhere in the middle.

Whatever about Slovenia and South Korea, there's absolutely no "commercial" value in a Northern Ireland FA senior cap. Think Johnny Gorman for starters.


I think someone with too much time on their hands counted mine...
:rolleyes:

Worrying if that's the case.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha.

[BonnieShels]

Posting habit stats? Where can these be attained? Perhaps I'd be best not looking at mine!

I am at once, fearful and intrigued.

That he has just under 78% of the amount of posts you have and has managed 578 (16.7%) of those in in this thread I would wager a similar ratio would give you 741 posts in this thread.

Which discounting AB's posts gives you 17% of the remainder.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Whatever you do, don't count them to check...
;)

[osarusan]

Danny: 791.

[DannyInvincible]

So how'd you work it out? :o

[osarusan]

Go to the Ireland forum, then click on the number of posts in the thread - now 4946 - a box will open with a list of posters and post count.

[BonnieShels]

Wow.

266. I would have thought more. This is 267 obviously...

[DannyInvincible]

I'm not actually the most prolific poster in the thread. :eek:

I don't know whether to be relieved or livid with envy...

[BonnieShels]

I'm not actually the most prolific poster in the thread. :eek:

I don't know whether to be relieved or livid with envy...

Quality over quantity... verbosity over succinctness.

[geysir]

I'm way off the pace in 4th place, just about ready to be pulled up, but still about 100m ahead of Bonnie.