Eligibility Rules, Okay

[ArdeeBhoy]

Really? Why not...if they are willing?

[DannyInvincible]

we shouldnt fast track any body just to tie him to us

I wouldn't advocate the unconstrained fast-tracking of anyone and everyone who might be eligible (say, the likes of Daniel Crowley, for example) - so I agree in that sense - but if a willing someone is at or very near to the level of where they can make a committed contribution to the squad, I don't see the harm in getting them in the mix and nipping any potential media distraction over lingering dual eligibility in the bud. Grealish, Naughton and Kane are all playing at a level where they can add something.

Edit: I suppose, if they're ready, that's not really fast-tracking, is it?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

So you're saying he's a mercenary? Well I never. What does TOWK think of this?

It would somewhat prove what I am saying, wouldn't it? Houghton and McGeady also declared for Ireland partly because of ineptitude on the part of the Scottish set up. Even some of our Northern lads have toed a similar line.

McGeady and McCarthy are more than good enough to play for Scotland so their situation is very different to some (all?) of our English declarees. Then there is the fact that there is nothing disingenuous about their attachment to this country. They did grow up with Irish family on both sides and strongly identify as Irish.

I would sympathise with Scottish fans who are/were angry about their defection, though there is no need for them to bring religion or sectarianism into it.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Clearly you don't know how a sizeable minority of Scottish unionists feel, or operate...

[Charlie Darwin]

Clearly you don't know how a sizeable minority of Scottish inionists feel, or operate...
Let me guess: you do know, and if we want to find out we'll have to google it?

[DannyInvincible]

It would somewhat prove what I am saying, wouldn't it? Houghton and McGeady also declared for Ireland partly because of ineptitude on the part of the Scottish set up. Even some of our Northern lads have toed a similar line.

What does it prove exactly? Any decision a dual national/citizenship professional international footballer takes will obviously be coloured by a multitude of factors; some factors more so than others and possibly including things like national identity, benefit to career long-term and who has treated him well or given him opportunities. For every James McClean or Shane Duffy there's a Paddy McCourt or a Niall McGinn. You seem to live in a purist world of cartoonish polar extremes where such players are either unscrupulous mercenaries or potential patron-saint-of-Ireland material. Even if the SFA's ineptitude contributed to the decisions of Houghton and McGeady in declaring for us, it's not as if they hadn't simultaneous deep-rooted attachments to Ireland. SFA ineptitude doesn't contaminate their decision to declare.

As for the northern lads, they've pretty much universally expressed that their dream was to play for Ireland. If the IFA ever cocked up, as they seemingly did in the case of Darron Gibson, it only made any decision to declare for us easier.


McGeady and McCarthy are more than good enough to play for Scotland so their situation is very different to some (all?) of our English declarees. Then there is the fact that there is nothing disingenuous about their attachment to this country. They did grow up with Irish family on both sides and strongly identify as Irish.

Whose attachment is disingenuous? It seems you'll always make the unfair and groundless assumption that (all?) our England-born declarers are simply choosing us as back-up because competition is sterner with England or because they'll never be good enough to play for them. Even when guys like Grealish have been playing for us from the age of 14, you'll doubt their motivations. How do they win with you?


I would sympathise with Scottish fans who are/were angry about their defection, though there is no need for them to bring religion or sectarianism into it.

Who defected? McGeady and McCarthy have always been FAI players. Why the sympathy exactly?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Let me guess: you do know, and if we want to find out we'll have to google it?

Well, it is pretty universal knowledge. Google, not required !
If you don't know by now, we'll award you the appropriate trophy in your own name...
;)

[DannyInvincible]

Burnley's Marvin Sordell is not only eligible for us, but is also plenty experienced at international level... That is according to the rather confused Alan Parry: http://balls.ie/football/knew-burnley-player-experienced-irish-international/


Irish sports fans are forever giving out about English sports commentators propensity for calling Irish sports stars English (not to mention English sports fans tendency to wonder aloud as to why Irish strikers aren’t being called up to the England squad).

Well, tonight we had the opposite problem.

Experienced commentator Alan Parry introduced Marvin Sordell to the Sky audience as an ‘experienced Republic of Ireland international’ who Sean Dyche knew from their days playing together with Millwall. Sordell, evidently a precocious talent, was 12 when Dyche was at Millwall.

Of course, there is a possibility that Parry got mixed up between Sordell and current Burnley player, ex-Irish international and former playing colleague of Sean Dyche at Millwall, Steven Reid.

An Andre Mariner mistake if ever there was one.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Harry Kane aiming for I̶r̶e̶l̶a̶n̶d̶ England call up.

​http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2728603/Harry-Kane-hopes-break-England-squad-impressive-start-season-Tottenham.html

[DannyInvincible]

Where was Paul Rowan getting his info from the other day?

[Charlie Darwin]

Probably Kane's agent. We've seen before when a player is rumoured to be considering declaring for Ireland that suddenly the newspaper articles appear with him expressing his hope of playing for England.

[Stuttgart88]

Ed Joyce in TOWK wind up attempt

http://www.thescore.ie/ed-joyce-interview-switch-england-ireland-1644688-Aug2014/

I have to say it'd wind me up to, and I was just having fun with my first line. "I'd have preferred to have played for Ireland but England was better for my career" is one thing from the kid of an Irish grandfather, but not from a 35 year old Dubliner. In fairness, what he probably meant was that England offered him Test cricket and top level ODI exposure, and cricket is pretty unique in this regard. I think rugby is in danger of following suit, with countries like Ireland and NZ able to "buy" pacific islanders via the 3 year residency rule.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well, the residency rule when it's fully exploited in soccer, will 'kill' smaller countries inc.Ireland.

Yet more evidence of FIFA/UEFA being idiots.

[Stuttgart88]

How fully exploited do you envisage the residency rule to become? I feel it'll still be exceptional / marginal.

[DannyInvincible]

I know you keep saying that AB, but I'm not convinced either. The "residency rule" is nothing new. Why isn't it being "fully exploited" now if the supposed conditions for its exploitation have long been there? It has been in place for years, but I'm not aware of even one example of an Irish player refusing to play for us and then declaring for another country after five years of residence there and upon acquiring citizenship of that country. For it to pose a problem for us, an Ireland-born player would have to repeatedly reject Irish call-ups for years after the age of 18 whilst living in another country and then later declare for that country. How might someone exploit it at our expense? I just don't see how it would threaten our player pool really. What talented Irish player is going to decide to repeatedly reject selection and forego all international football, from youth level to senior, for at least five years post the age of 18 with the specific intention of declaring for another country after five years of residing there? I just can't envisage that happening.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I hear you gents and you're probably right, just have a very bad (substantial!) gut feeling about it all.
:(

[DannyInvincible]

I hear you gents and you're probably right, just have a very bad (substantial!) gut feeling about it all.
:(

I wouldn't fret about it, to be honest. Who do you fear is going to benefit from it at our expense? Most Irish players who play outside of Ireland play in the UK, but, by virtue of the special status of the four British associations, the four uniquely require that any player who might qualify to play for one of them through residency must have completed five years of education in the territory of the association for whom he wishes to play before reaching the age of 18. Even if the British associations were to collectively rid themselves of that agreed stipulation (they'd be entitled to do so by virtue of FIFA's regulations as "associations sharing a common nationality") and, instead, were to decide to adhere to the general residency principle, it shouldn't make any real difference as far as we'd be concerned.

If you imagine how a young footballer might think or if you consider the combination of factors that would be required for such a player to have the opportunity of playing for an adopted country through residency at the age of 23 or later, there's just no credible reason to fear the death or injury of smaller associations by virtue of what is already a longstanding clause. If a player wants to play international football and is eligible for only one country - the one in which he was born - he'll usually accept a call-up by his country at the first opportunity. He'll surely jump at the chance; it's the only option he'll have.

There's no way any player who wants to play international football will continuously reject repeated call-up attempts by his native association and, instead, decide that he's going to try and realise his dream of playing international football by playing for some other country in which he hasn't yet resided, of which he does not yet possess citizenship or in which he has only been residing for a short period of time via relying on spending five continuous years living/playing there and developing his ability to a level where, by the age of 23 (at the earliest), he will be considered talented enough to challenge for a place in his adopted country's senior international team. It would be to rely on the coming together of too many unlikely and unpredictable circumstances.

The reason why there was (misguided) talk of Adnan Januzaj potentially becoming eligible to play for England, for example, was because he'd not played international football for any team as a result of his rather rare situation; it seems he might have been holding out for Kosovan recognition for a period. Even if it had been possible for him to have become eligible for England at some point, the chances of him actually opting to play for them down the line would have been extremely remote considering he had invites coming in from other associations for whom he was actually eligible. As it happened, he accepted a call-up by Belgium.

Even if a player was a pure mercenary whose desire to play international football was driven only by careerism rather than by any sense of national pride, it would be just too uncertain and risky a career plan for him to, in pursuance of his goal, try and rely on the aforementioned scenario being realised. If a player is going to be good enough to play at international level, his native association will almost always have secured his services by the time he's turned 23 or before he could have become eligible for the other country in which he is resident anyway.

The residency clause benefits those players in whom a native association have never had an interest. It gives such "surplus" players a second option after a period of five years (at the very least) of non-interest in them post the age of 18 by their native association. When these players might acquire a new nationality, they'll be eligible to play for the association of their adopted country primarily because their native association will never have had any serious interest in them in the first place. So, there's no reason to worry that the clause will kill off smaller associations. Is there even one example in world football of a minor association losing out to a bigger power by virtue of the residency clause? I can't think of any.

I know Diego Costa switched to Spain with the aid of the residency clause after having played in two senior friendlies for Brazil, but Brazil are a major association with such an array of firepower that even a player of Diego Costa's ability had received no international recognition from them until after his 23rd birthday.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Bloody hell, Danny!
:)

Fair enough!

[DannyInvincible]

Ha, I was trying to imagine scenarios in which it might pose a problem and how it actually plays out in practice, so that was as much musing as anything else, but I'm pretty sure I've covered all possibilities.

[DannyInvincible]

No if your have 2 Irish grandparents then you have 50% Irish blood so you either have and one english and one Irish parent or you have 2 parents who are 50% Irish.
I suspect he has one parent of each nationality, that is the way I look at it anyway, blood if thicker than water.

But both of Noble's parents were born in England. Anyway, I don't think it's something that can be simply quantified by a mathematical formula like that. I mean, how would you quantify Noe Baba's Irishness using the same simplistic methodology as you outline above? Irishness is a feeling (that can, of course, be legally certified; meaning you're either an Irish national or you're not); it isn't something that can be quantified as a specific number, fraction or percentile.


England have been a flop for 50 years, under achievers for 50 years, the evidence is staring you in the face, ie Mark Nobel, were he 100% English
I have little doubt he would have been capped by now. Exhibit #2 is Kevin Nolan, the Nolan sisters made him unselectable for England. I rest my case!!!

But that's not evidence of anything. It's just conjecture. Or conspiracy theory, even. More likely, Mark Noble has been overlooked for the English senior team because he has never been deemed good enough by whatever managers they've had in charge. The same applies to Kevin Nolan. If the FA had a problem with Noble's "diluted" English identity, why would he have been allowed to captain their under-21 side? As I've demonstrated, they've had absolutely no problem with regularly selecting players of mixed heritage.


Well, yeah. The link he was drawing was that if an Irish player is half-arsed then they're a waste of time. Same principle applies for a half-arsed English-born player playing for Ireland. On the other hand, a fully-committed, English-born player would be, in Sadlier's view, worth pursuing and in spite of the comments that Noble has made of late.

What puzzled me was that Noble isn't fully committed, yet Sadlier is all for his inclusion.

[DannyInvincible]

Not sure where exactly this one fits, but it's an odd one that relates to the statutes, according to Platini: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2014/0907/642034-platini-tells-ribery-he-cant-quit-france/


Franck Ribery could face a suspension if he refuses to represent his country again, according to UEFA president Michel Platini.

Ribery announced his retirement from international football after injury ruled him out of the World Cup finals.

But according to Platini, a player cannot refuse a summons to national duty if there is no physical problem impeding them from doing so.

Ribery's retirement at the age of 31 would therefore be unenforceable should France coach Didier Deschamps still want to select the Bayern Munich winger.

"If Deschamps calls him up, then he has to come to the national team," Platini told Bild am Sonntag.

"That's written in the FIFA statutes. If he doesn't report for duty, then he would be banned for three matches for Bayern Munich.

"It is not the player's decision whether he represents his country, it's the decision of the coach.

"Ribery cannot simply decide for himself whether he wants to play for France or not."

What regulation is Platini referring to there? He surely can't be correct in saying that a player can be compelled to play for an international side by the threat of a general suspension... :confused:

[Closed Account]

Not sure where exactly this one fits, but it's an odd one that relates to the statutes, according to Platini: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2014/0907/642034-platini-tells-ribery-he-cant-quit-france/



What regulation is Platini referring to there? He surely can't be correct in saying that a player can be compelled to play for an international side by the threat of a general suspension... :confused:
Annexe 1 here it seems: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/regulations_on_the_status_and_transfer_of_players_ en_33410.pdf

Didn't this rear it's head in 2006 with Makelele prompting Mourinho to call him a slave. Quick browse through that has a Fifa spokesman saying that Makelele could have retired if he wanted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/5298458.stm

Platini should make sure everyone is rowing the same direction on this before he speaks up on it.

[DannyInvincible]

Annexe 1 here it seems: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/regulations_on_the_status_and_transfer_of_players_ en_33410.pdf

Didn't this rear it's head in 2006 with Makelele prompting Mourinho to call him a slave. Quick browse through that has a Fifa spokesman saying that Makelele could have retired if he wanted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/5298458.stm

Platini should make sure everyone is rowing the same direction on this before he speaks up on it.

Annexe 1 imposes a duty upon clubs to release players. It prevents clubs from holding back players who wish to represent their international team. It does not impose a duty upon players to represent their national side if called upon. That's entirely voluntary and always has been. Compelling a player to play would cause all sorts of problems. For one, it could have meant that the IFA called up, say, James McClean and forced him to play a senior competitive fixture in order to permanently tie him. No player would be able to voluntarily retire from international football either if what Platini says is true.

Article 1.7 of the annexe implies that the players themselves do have a choice to comply with a call-up:


"Players complying with a call-up from their association under the terms of this article shall resume duty with their clubs no later than 24 hours after the end of the match for which they were called up."

I think Platini is talking nonsense.

[gastric]

Hard to believe that anyone would think this is enforceable. Might the FAI request that Richard Dunne play for us again? I would hope not as he has been a great servant to Irish football and should be allowed to determine his own career. The only player we could use it for is Stephen Ireland. Call him up and when he refuses, he can be banned from playing three games for Stoke........reserves! ;)

[DannyInvincible]

Just getting another look at this and I see that article 3.1 of annexe 1 states:


"As a general rule, every player registered with a club is obliged to respond affirmatively when called up by the association he is eligible to represent on the basis of his nationality to play for one of its representative teams."

I still don't understand how that can be enforced though. Dual nationals can't be compelled to play for either of the associations for whom they're eligible so as to permanently tie them to one or the other. If I understand the wording correctly, however, when Shane Duffy (friendly against Albania in February of 2010) and James McClean (Euro 2012 qualifier against the Faroe Islands in August of 2011) opted out of IFA squads, after having already been officially selected, with the intention of switching to the FAI, technically-speaking, they were acting in breach of the regulations?

[DannyInvincible]

Ribery has said he'll stick by his international retirement decision in spite of Platini's threat: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/11/franck-ribery-france-michel-platini-pressure


Franck Ribéry has insisted he has no plans to reverse his decision to retire from international football despite pressure from the Uefa president, Michel Platini.

Last month, the Bayern Munich forward announced he had played his final game for France, having been forced to miss the World Cup with a back injury. That decision was heavily criticised by Platini, who also threatened the 31-year-old with a ban if he ignores a future call-up from Didier Deschamps.

But Ribéry believes the issue has already been resolved and is adamant he will not change his mind. “I have already said before I have retired from international duty and I will not go back on my decision,” he told the German newspaper Der Welt.

“I have discussed this with France coach Deschamps and we reached an agreement on it. I want to focus completely on Bayern Munich in the future. That’s all I want to say about the matter. I am not going to get involved in all the politics surrounding my decision.”

Platini threatened Ribéry with suspension if he sticks with his decision, stating that it was not down to the player to decided when to retire. “If Deschamps calls him up, then he has to come to the national team,’’ Platini said. “That’s written in the Fifa statutes. If he doesn’t report for duty, then he would be banned for three matches for Bayern Munich.

“It is not the player’s decision whether he represents his country, it’s the decision of the coach. Ribéry cannot simply decide for himself whether he wants to play for France or not.”

[tricky_colour]

But both of Noble's parents were born in England. Anyway, I don't think it's something that can be simply quantified by a mathematical formula like that. I mean, how would you quantify Noe Baba's Irishness using the same simplistic methodology as you outline above? Irishness is a feeling (that can, of course, be legally certified; meaning you're either an Irish national or you're not); it isn't something that can be quantified as a specific number, fraction or percentile.



But that's not evidence of anything. It's just conjecture. Or conspiracy theory, even. More likely, Mark Noble has been overlooked for the English senior team because he has never been deemed good enough by whatever managers they've had in charge. The same applies to Kevin Nolan. If the FA had a problem with Noble's "diluted" English identity, why would he have been allowed to captain their under-21 side? As I've demonstrated, they've had absolutely no problem with regularly selecting players of mixed heritage.




Well it depends on your definition or Irishness, everyone will have their own personal definition, including FIFA
but at the end of the day it is FIFA's definition that matters, and of you have to have an official definition otherwise
there would by chaos. Hence officially Irishness is not a feeling it is clearly defined rule set by FIFA.
Of course some will have a problem with that but people would have a problem with the definition in certain
cases however it was defined.
Indeed every manager probably has their own definition or pecking order of Irishness.

Selection (S) probably comes down to: S = (degree of Irishness X technical ability).

Now in England case if they have two player so exactly the same ability but one is 'more English'
than the other I think the more English one is going to get picked, that seems quite obvious to me.

But of course that will be extended slightly I think when a slightly less capable "very English" player is picked
over a slightly more capable "not so English" player. I think that may have happened with Nobel however I
don't have an Encyclopaedic knowledge of the ability of English players over the years to be able to prove that,
and of course it is somewhat subjective, but that is "my theory".

I don't put too much weight by the u21 stuff that is a slightly different kettle of fish and indeed it may actually
confirm my theory because the u21 is not taken so seriously so they may just go purely by player ability,
no many take as much interest in u21. I doubt many could name the England U21 team now.

[osarusan]

Well it depends on your definition or Irishness, everyone will have their own personal definition, including FIFA
but at the end of the day it is FIFA's definition that matters, and of you have to have an official definition otherwise
there would by chaos. Hence officially Irishness is not a feeling it is clearly defined rule set by FIFA.
Of course some will have a problem with that but people would have a problem with the definition in certain
cases however it was defined.


FIFA never really talk about or attempt to define nationality. They only deal with eligibility.

[tricky_colour]

FIFA never really talk about or attempt to define nationality. They only deal with eligibility.

Yes but that ends up as defining nationality, you can only have one nationality at a time as
far as FIFA are concerned, or at least you can't switch, or maybe you can now, I am not up to
date with the latest rules.

[Closed Account]

Well it depends on your definition or Irishness, ........ I doubt many could name the England U21 team now.
Tricky, this is your 4th post in this thread and it's 1 too many ;) I hope this latest one is a result of one too many also.

By the by, do you still subscribe to this world view?

Personally I feel we should scrap the eligibility rules altogether and let players play for whichever country they like
regardless of birth place or nationality.

Initially it sounds like a mad idea, but the more you think about it the more you realise it is the right way to go.

And as osarusun is online, does the following ring true with you in regards to Grealish?

The 'is it fair to criticise' argument is on that I don't accept. He was an adult FFS.

Is it realistic to expect an adult to decide not to represent a team at underage level when he feels uncomfortable representing them and has supported another international team since he was a boy? Yes it is.


If we are to believe that McClean has been a ROI fan since a young boy, then his representing NI at underage level as a 'stepping stone' is something he should definitely be criticised for, and it's something he should be apologising for, rather than seemingly being proud of.

Stirring the pot.....

[osarusan]

And as osarusun is online, does the following ring true with you in regards to Grealish?


Stirring the pot.....
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the relevance of that.

If Grealish starts saying that he only played for Ireland underage teams as a stepping stone, then sure, he should be criticised. Has he said something like that?

I'm not that familiar with Grealish and his comments so far. Are there similarities with McClean?

[Closed Account]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the relevance of that.

If Grealish starts saying that he only played for Ireland underage teams as a stepping stone, then sure, he should be criticized. Has he said something like that?
Was only stirring, i realise the difference in situation. Not that I agree with your opinion about McClean but that horse is well and truely flogged

[DannyInvincible]

Well it depends on your definition or Irishness, everyone will have their own personal definition, including FIFA
but at the end of the day it is FIFA's definition that matters, and of you have to have an official definition otherwise
there would by chaos. Hence officially Irishness is not a feeling it is clearly defined rule set by FIFA.

Irishness is a concept that is not strictly defined (everyone's view of it may indeed vary, as you point out), but Irish nationality is defined by Irish law; not by FIFA. FIFA merely legislate for eligibility for national football teams. Their eligibility regulations operate on the basis of pre-existing recognised nationalities.


Now in England case if they have two player so exactly the same ability but one is 'more English'
than the other I think the more English one is going to get picked, that seems quite obvious to me.

Why would that seem obvious? To me, it's quite an extraordinary claim that doesn't really stand up to serious challenge.


But of course that will be extended slightly I think when a slightly less capable "very English" player is picked
over a slightly more capable "not so English" player. I think that may have happened with Nobel however I
don't have an Encyclopaedic knowledge of the ability of English players over the years to be able to prove that,
and of course it is somewhat subjective, but that is "my theory".

So, which is it; an obvious fact to you or merely conspiracy theory/your opinion?


I don't put too much weight by the u21 stuff that is a slightly different kettle of fish and indeed it may actually
confirm my theory because the u21 is not taken so seriously so they may just go purely by player ability,
no many take as much interest in u21. I doubt many could name the England U21 team now.

Who doesn't take under-21 level seriously? Why would the FA employ a distinct selection policy for their youth teams and another for their senior team? Not that they do anyway. The evidence demonstrates that they're very happy to select players for the senior team who are of mixed heritage. Wayne Rooney (of strong Irish heritage) is their current captain. How do you explain that?


Yes but that ends up as defining nationality, you can only have one nationality at a time as
far as FIFA are concerned, or at least you can't switch, or maybe you can now, I am not up to
date with the latest rules.

Hehe, aren't you aware that Shane Duffy and James McClean once played for IFA teams? And weren't we just discussing the prospect of Mark Noble switching, ye madman ye?! :p

[tricky_colour]

Tricky, this is your 4th post in this thread and it's 1 too many ;) I hope this latest one is a result of one too many also.

By the by, do you still subscribe to this world view?


Actually that world view is pretty much the status quo in the premiership, no Man U player comes form Manchester, so why should English players
have any association with England (and indeed many don't ;))

[tricky_colour]

Irishness is a concept that is not strictly defined (everyone's view of it may indeed vary, as you point out), but Irish nationality is defined by Irish law; not by FIFA. FIFA merely legislate for eligibility for national football teams. Their eligibility regulations operate on the basis of pre-existing recognised nationalities.



Why would that seem obvious? To me, it's quite an extraordinary claim that doesn't really stand up to serious challenge.



So, which is it; an obvious fact to you or merely conspiracy theory/your opinion?



Who doesn't take under-21 level seriously? Why would the FA employ a distinct selection policy for their youth teams and another for their senior team? Not that they do anyway. The evidence demonstrates that they're very happy to select players for the senior team who are of mixed heritage. Wayne Rooney (of strong Irish heritage) is their current captain. How do you explain that?



Hehe, aren't you aware that Shane Duffy and James McClean once played for IFA teams? And weren't we just discussing the prospect of Mark Noble switching, ye madman ye?! :p

Yes well the rule is you can switch if you have not played a full international I think, I think you can also switch if you change your nationality whcih anyone
can do hence my idea of a free for all it not to far off I think, it is only a matter of time. I expect switching mid competition will be ruled out as it is in
the FA cup.

THe McClean and Duffy thingis interesting as they merely played for the country they live in, however with Grealish he went over to Ireland
which is a positive sign I guess.

[DannyInvincible]

Actually that world view is pretty much the status quo in the premiership, no Man U player comes form Manchester, so why should English players
have any association with England (and indeed many don't ;))

Aye, but that's kind of, y'know, the crucial and intended distinction between club football and international football... The whole point is the national connection. Would you rather Ireland's squad featured players from all around the globe with no tie to the nation whatsoever? :confused:

Which current England players have no association with England?


Yes well the rule is you can switch if you have not played a full international I think, I think you can also switch if you change your nationality whcih anyone
can do hence my idea of a free for all it not to far off I think, it is only a matter of time. I expect switching mid competition will be ruled out as it is in
the FA cup.

Aye, you can switch association once if you've not yet played a competitive senior international. It's why Alex Bruce was OK to switch to the IFA. He'd only played in senior friendlies for us. If you acquire a new nationality and seek to switch association, however, you must have parents or grandparents from the territory of your new association or you must have resided in that territory for at least five continuous years. Players can't just select a new nationality and switch association at whim, so no need to fear a free-for-all just yet, ha. As you correctly expect though, switching mid-competition is also prohibited in the sense that any switching player will be effectively "cup-tied", although that only applies to under-age competitions for obvious reasons, as playing in a competitive senior fixture would see a player already tied to an association and unable to switch.


THe McClean and Duffy thingis interesting as they merely played for the country they live in, however with Grealish he went over to Ireland
which is a positive sign I guess.

Loads of England-born players have "went over" to Ireland. It's not as if Grealish's case is unprecedented.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.thescore.ie/paddy-mcnair-manchester-united-west-ham-1689552-Sep2014/

[SwanVsDalton]

http://www.thescore.ie/paddy-mcnair-manchester-united-west-ham-1689552-Sep2014/

If he's from Ballyclare, then there's almost certainly no chance he'll be declaring for us.

[DannyInvincible]

He's played for NI at under-16, under-17, under-19 and under-21 level, as far as I can make out. Is there talk he's considering switching? I thought you weren't a fan of idle speculation/name-bandying of this sort, Knockers.

[liamoo11]

http://www.thescore.ie/paddy-mcnair-manchester-united-west-ham-1689552-Sep2014/

There is no reason to think this lad is anything but commited to the north. Until FIFA revoke the membership of NI, scotland and wales and force paddy to choose between Britain and ireland this is a non story

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

He's played for NI at under-16, under-17, under-19 and under-21 level, as far as I can make out. Is there talk he's considering switching? I thought you weren't a fan of idle speculation/name-bandying of this sort, Knockers.

When you can find a cultural or socio-economic correlation between someone like Paul Green and someone like James McClean let me know.

[liamoo11]

When you can find a cultural or socio-economic correlation between someone like Paul Green and someone like James McClean let me know.
both their grandmothers were born in ireland. both paul and james culturally wished to represent their country namely ireland.socio- economically they both are championship footballers on salaries greater than 500 thousand sterling a year making them both comfortably middle to upper class.

[DannyInvincible]

When you can find a cultural or socio-economic correlation between someone like Paul Green and someone like James McClean let me know.

What's your point exactly? Is there some cultural/socio-economic correlation between Paddy McNair and James McClean that's missing from any connection between Paul Green and James McClean?

[SwanVsDalton]

both their grandmothers were born in ireland. both paul and james culturally wished to represent their country namely ireland.socio- economically they both are championship footballers on salaries greater than 500 thousand sterling a year making them both comfortably middle to upper class.

They're both ginger too. Which, you could say, is a cultural factor. But mainly it's just hair colour.

[Gather round]

There is no reason to think this lad is anything but commited to the north. Until FIFA revoke the membership of NI, scotland and wales and force paddy to choose between Britain and ireland this is a non story

Maybe they'll revoke the membership of RoI instead and he can look for a granny in Gibraltar or that disputed bit between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

I'd never previously heard of him tbh. Our U-21 squad is even more pants than usual at the moment.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why would they do that? At least Ireland is a country, unlike the other three...two of which are never likely to be!!

[Gather round]

Why would they do that? At least Ireland is a country, unlike the other three...two of which are never likely to be!!

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz196/BillMcComish/ultonia/zuidirland_zpsa73c0bbb.jpg (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/BillMcComish/media/ultonia/zuidirland_zpsa73c0bbb.jpg.html)

[tetsujin1979]

sauerland - more like sour-land, amirite, eh, eh??

I'll get me coat.

[ArdeeBhoy]

'EnchantedLearning' ? More like retarded. Based on the Gibberish-Deutsch used.
And at least credit the source that was stolen from.

That said, would happy to be an offshoot of the current Deutsch, they have a healthy economy and mind set and the best beer...just get this qualification campaign out of the way.
Whereas the rump colonial outposts of Britain are destined to suck on its teat, in the main. Only Alba is a viable entity.

[ArdeeBhoy]

http://www.thescore.ie/paddy-mcnair-manchester-united-west-ham-1689552-Sep2014/

Doesn't look like he'll be heading our way, anytime soon...

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialIrishFA/photos/a.469137795829.251720.11267345829/10153166520320830/?type=1&theater