Eligibility Rules, Okay

[EalingGreen]

Looks like the North are going with Tommy Wright as their new manager. After Michael O'Neill created a more welcoming environment for those of Catholic/Nationalist backgrounds, it will be interesting to see if UDR-supporter Wright can keep up that work: https://twitter.com/ChuckReboots/status/1059219904191066112?s=19
Vincent Sweeney (ex-DCFC) thinks Tommy would be great for the job:

“Tommy was amazing for me and he changed my career,” he said. “He took a special interest in me at Limavady and he took my game to a different level.

“He had a massive impact on me,” he said. “He demanded a lot from you, but I loved every moment playing under Tommy.

“It doesn’t surprise me that he has gone on to do what he’s done in management and that he’s now being linked with an international job.
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tommy-wright-changed-career-deserves-18311783

They must be in the same lodge...

[geysir]

Vincent Sweeney (ex-DCFC) thinks Tommy would be great for the job:

“Tommy was amazing for me and he changed my career,” he said. “He took a special interest in me at Limavady and he took my game to a different level.

“He had a massive impact on me,” he said. “He demanded a lot from you, but I loved every moment playing under Tommy.

“It doesn’t surprise me that he has gone on to do what he’s done in management and that he’s now being linked with an international job.
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tommy-wright-changed-career-deserves-18311783

They must be in the same lodge...
That's Tommy's alibi, his catholic friend who stands by him to the end.

[EalingGreen]

That's Tommy's alibi, his catholic friend who stands by him to the end.
I'm not sure whether that is some sort of clever reference which I don't get, or whether it's meant to be taken as read.

Assuming it's the latter, then by the presumption of innocence which everyone deserves - even evil Black Prods - it should be for Tommy's detractors to find Catholics who do consider him a bigot, rather than his admirers to list all those who don't.

Though when I say "Catholics" (plural), I'd accept even one out of the hundreds he has worked with during his long career in NI, ROI and Scotland.

You know, to set against all those who have only good things to say about him, incl those who happily apply to work for him.

[geysir]

I'm not sure whether that is some sort of clever reference which I don't get, or whether it's meant to be taken as read.

Assuming it's the latter, then by the presumption of innocence which everyone deserves - even evil Black Prods - it should be for Tommy's detractors to find Catholics who do consider him a bigot, rather than his admirers to list all those who don't.

Though when I say "Catholics" (plural), I'd accept even one out of the hundreds he has worked with during his long career in NI, ROI and Scotland.

You know, to set against all those who have only good things to say about him, incl those who happily apply to work for him.

Still the same old Ealing Green, absent of humour.:)
Did you really 100% think I was serious? perhaps it was just 96%. You really need to listen more to the 4%.

[seanfhear]

I'm not sure whether that is some sort of clever reference which I don't get, or whether it's meant to be taken as read.

Assuming it's the latter, then by the presumption of innocence which everyone deserves - even evil Black Prods - it should be for Tommy's detractors to find Catholics who do consider him a bigot, rather than his admirers to list all those who don't.

Though when I say "Catholics" (plural), I'd accept even one out of the hundreds he has worked with during his long career in NI, ROI and Scotland.

You know, to set against all those who have only good things to say about him, incl those who happily apply to work for him.
Would that be good for their Health.

Perhaps we should get Neil Lennon’s Opines on the Northern Ireland situation ?

[EalingGreen]

Still the same old Ealing Green, absent of humour.:)
Did you really 100% think I was serious? perhaps it was just 96%. You really need to listen more to the 4%.
Nope, wasn't sure about the original post.

Still not completely sure about this one, tbh.

Oh well.

[EalingGreen]

Would that be good for their Health.Er, what do the likes of Vincent Sweeney have to lose? That makes no sense, since anyone worried about consequences could always just keep quiet.

Instead, we have people from all backgrounds queuing up to vouch for him, even work for him.



Perhaps we should get Neil Lennon’s Opines on the Northern Ireland situation ?"Whataboutery" - the last resort when someones case has been exposed as nothing more than ignorant, uninformed prejudice.

Btw, which "Neil Lennon" are you referring to? The one whose first six years playing for NI coincided with the last six years of a certain "Tommy Wright"?

Or the one who has crossed swords with Tommy manys a time on the touchline in the SPL, without any evidence whatever of personal animosity?

You should quit while you're behind.

[DCWA]

Er, what do the likes of Vincent Sweeney have to lose?

He is a moron. Has become social media “famous” in Derry the past 8 weeks due to his rambling nonsensical videos and having well broadcast fight in a shopping complex with another local personal trainer in the middle of it all before you go telling others to quit while they are behind you may want to validate the source of the opinion you are quoting because there is no one would put any stock in what the man says.

[Olé Olé]

Er, what do the likes of Vincent Sweeney have to lose? That makes no sense, since anyone worried about consequences could always just keep quiet.

Instead, we have people from all backgrounds queuing up to vouch for him, even work for him.

"Whataboutery" - the last resort when someones case has been exposed as nothing more than ignorant, uninformed prejudice.

Btw, which "Neil Lennon" are you referring to? The one whose first six years playing for NI coincided with the last six years of a certain "Tommy Wright"?

Or the one who has crossed swords with Tommy manys a time on the touchline in the SPL, without any evidence whatever of personal animosity?

You should quit while you're behind.

Did you not resort to utter "whataboutery" in response to my post i.e. well if Tommy Wright is seen wearing a loyalist badge, what about former LOI nobody saying he got on with Wright? It was an absolute stab in the dark at "whataboutery". In fact, it was based on prejudice too because you had to dig so deep to find someone with an Irish surname that played for Derry City to provide some semblance of evidence.

I'm all for alternative points of view. I feel, however, you veer so far into the territories of double standards that it renders your alternative points of view laughable all too frequently.

[EalingGreen]

He is a moron. Has become social media “famous” in Derry the past 8 weeks due to his rambling nonsensical videos and having well broadcast fight in a shopping complex with another local personal trainer in the middle of it all before you go telling others to quit while they are behind you may want to validate the source of the opinion you are quoting because there is no one would put any stock in what the man says.Whether a "moron" or otherwise, how does that invalidate his opinion that TW treated him very well during his time working for him?

[seanfhear]

Er, what do the likes of Vincent Sweeney have to lose? That makes no sense, since anyone worried about consequences could always just keep quiet.

Instead, we have people from all backgrounds queuing up to vouch for him, even work for him.

"Whataboutery" - the last resort when someones case has been exposed as nothing more than ignorant, uninformed prejudice.

Btw, which "Neil Lennon" are you referring to? The one whose first six years playing for NI coincided with the last six years of a certain "Tommy Wright"?

Or the one who has crossed swords with Tommy manys a time on the touchline in the SPL, without any evidence whatever of personal animosity?

You should quit while you're behind.
I meant players that are playing for Northern Ireland or going to (possibly ) play for Northern Ireland !

I believe as Neil Lennon went through some of the bad consequences of playing for Northern Ireland that his opines would be good and does he regret playing for Northern Ireland etc etc.

[EalingGreen]

Did you not resort to utter "whataboutery" in response to my post i.e. well if Tommy Wright is seen wearing a loyalist badge, what about former LOI nobody saying he got on with Wright? It was an absolute stab in the dark at "whataboutery". In fact, it was based on prejudice too because you had to dig so deep to find someone with an Irish surname that played for Derry City to provide some semblance of evidence.
No I did not.

Whataboutery is when discussing "X" (in this case Wright), someone comes back with "Y" (in this case Lennon).

Whereas when we were discussing Wright, I pointed to all the numerous examples of Wright working happily and successfully with literally hundreds of people with a CNR background over two decades in NI, ROI and Scotland, many of whom are now vouching for him, Wright.


I'm all for alternative points of view. I feel, however, you veer so far into the territories of double standards that it renders your alternative points of view laughable all too frequently.The only thing which is "laughable" is your inability to understand a simple concept like Whataboutery.

[EalingGreen]

I meant players that are playing for Northern Ireland or going to (possibly ) play for Northern Ireland !
So you're basing your case on your speculation that some unnamed, unidentified player or players might not want to play for NI under Wright.

You have absolutely no evidence for same, while I have the counter-evidence of literally hundreds who have worked for, alongside and over* him, not one of whom has ever cast any aspersions, even obliquely, on his character. On the contrary, many are speaking up for him voluntarily (eg Sweeney), and/or applying to work for him (eg Maybury).


* - People who have employed TW include eg Michael O'Neill, who took him to Shamrock Rovers to be their Goalkeeping Coach. That's the Shamrock Rovers who play in Dublin btw. In the LOI. In the Irish Republic.



I believe as Neil Lennon went through some of the bad consequences of playing for Northern Ireland that his opines would be good and does he regret playing for Northern Ireland etc etc.
OK, I'll bite.

Here are two examples of what NL has had to say, the first was in 2001 while he was playing for NI, the second was after he retired in 2011.


Neil Lennon paid tribute to the Northern Ireland fans after he received nothing but cheers from the supporters in Saturday's World Cup qualifier against the Czech Republic.

However, the Celtic midfielder was "gutted" by Northern Ireland's 1-0 defeat after what he described as a "tremendous performance".

"I'm really sorry for the lads because the efforts they put in were magnificent.

"But the support out there today from the fans was brilliant.

"That is what Northern Ireland football should be all about.

"The atmosphere today was as good as it's ever been since I've been involved with Northern Ireland," added Lennon.

The home fans sang `There's only one Neil Lennon' at the end and manager Sammy McIlroy was delighted at the response of the 10,000 crowd.

"The crowd were 100% behind every player, Neil Lennon included," said McIlroy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2002/1240496.stm

and

“People like Stewart [McAfee, of 'Football For All'] are the Unsung Heroes who have been brave enough to challenge sectarianism and who have actively created a more fun, safe and family orientated atmosphere at international games. Fans like Stewart have made the atmosphere at Northern Ireland football games in recent years the envy of Fans across not only Europe but World Football. From a personal point of view I would like to thank them for their efforts.”
(The above is from a video message NL sent to an IFA Awards Evening in Belfast, which NL couldn't attend since he was on Celtic duty)

Then again, I'm sure Neil is capable of distinguishing between some scumbag who threatens him and the great majority of ordinary, decent fans who are really only interested in football, if only because he knows the latter. Unlike you.

And he also knows - and has played with - Tommy Wright, yet has never to my knowledge had a problem with him. Which considering the volatile nature of both men, who currently have to operate in a bearpit like the SPL, must be unique.

But maybe you know better. :rolleyes:

[seanfhear]

Doth Thou Protest Too Much ? ? ? Ealing Green !

[EalingGreen]

Doth Thou Protest Too Much ? ? ? Ealing Green !Er, it was 'Ole Ole' in post #7590 who first "protested" about TW possibly being up for the NI manager's job in this, a thread dealing with Player Eligibility, nine months after the previous post.

And it was you who piled in the same evening, to add your own protest.

And if I am contributing, it is only in response to such ignorant, ill-informed and prejudicial protests.

As I'm having to do now, sadly.

[DCWA]

Whether a "moron" or otherwise, how does that invalidate his opinion that TW treated him very well during his time working for him?

Someone being an absolute buffoon removes credibility from basically every opinion they provide imo.

Anyway if NI hire Wright then it won’t be his politics that further helps the FAI get the pick of talented players from nationalist backgrounds it will be the crap football and inevitable return to the doldrums.

[EalingGreen]

Someone being an absolute buffoon removes credibility from basically every opinion they provide imo.

So Sweeney isn't even capable of judging that TW treated him very well during his time working for him?

Aye, right.

P.S. Anything to say about VS's postscript to his comment on Wright?
“It’s the same with Stephen Kenny. I worked under both and they were inspirational figures. It was a privilege playing for two successful managers like that.”



Anyway if NI hire Wright then it won’t be his politics that further helps the FAI get the pick of talented players from nationalist backgrounds it will be the crap football and inevitable return to the doldrums.
We'll take our chance on that, thanks very much.

[DCWA]

.

P.S. Anything to say about VS's postscript to his comment on Wright?
“It’s the same with Stephen Kenny. I worked under both and they were inspirational figures. It was a privilege playing for two successful managers like that.”

ch.

Absolutely I do and thanks for asking, he played for a brief period (and very rarely) under SK in our year in the first few months of our season in the 1st division so in truth knows little about him but likes to massage his ego by being associated with the Ireland national manager in a Belfast news source (for the want of a better term).

Anyway I don’t really care about Tommy Wright at all and my original comment was designed to point out that the man who’s opinion you were using as the sole basis for your argument should be taken with a bottle as opposed to a pinch of salt.

[EalingGreen]

Anyway I don’t really care about Tommy Wright at all and my original comment was designed to point out that the man who’s opinion you were using as the sole basis for your argument should be taken with a bottle as opposed to a pinch of salt."Sole basis"?

If eg you refer back to my post #7593, you'll see where I replied to the question: "Why would any Catholic/Nationalist/Republican want to play for [Wright]?" with:

"Why don't you ask eg Joe Shaughnessy, Graham Cummings, David McMillan, Patrick Cregg or Tim Clancy? (Those being the ROI players he signed for St.Johnstone)

Or Alan Maybury, who he took on as Assistant Coach a couple of years back.

Or the dozens of CNR players he coached/managed previously eg at Limavady, Ballymena and Distillery, or with NI's under-age teams?

Or if those are too far from your neck of the woods, you could ask any of the players he coached at Shamrock Rovers.

You know, when he was appointed by his good friend and former teammate, Michael O'Neill..."

You see, one of the factors which has distinguished Tommy's career in management is his ability to get the best from his players, even when they're otherwise limited. Which is hardly going to be sustained down the years if the guy's got the unpleasant, bigoted personality which some people try to ascribe to him.

Then again, mere evidence like that probably holds no weight with those self-same small-minded people when they're determined to hold onto their prejudices about "themmuns" no matter what.

[geysir]

Nope, wasn't sure about the original post.

Still not completely sure about this one, tbh.

Oh well.
You can be sure.
It's okay not to be completely sure, but to be 90% sure is a safe bet.

I think Tommy Wright would be a good choice for NI but it's a difficult task at this stage for anyone to pick up the NI baton and expect him to get similar results.

[DCWA]

"Sole basis"?

If eg you refer back to my post #7593, you'll see where I replied to the question: "Why would any Catholic/Nationalist/Republican want to play for [Wright]?" with:

"Why don't you ask eg Joe Shaughnessy, Graham Cummings, David McMillan, Patrick Cregg or Tim Clancy? (Those being the ROI players he signed for St.Johnstone)

Or Alan Maybury, who he took on as Assistant Coach a couple of years back.

Or the dozens of CNR players he coached/managed previously eg at Limavady, Ballymena and Distillery, or with NI's under-age teams?

Or if those are too far from your neck of the woods, you could ask any of the players he coached at Shamrock Rovers.

You know, when he was appointed by his good friend and former teammate, Michael O'Neill..."

You see, one of the factors which has distinguished Tommy's career in management is his ability to get the best from his players, even when they're otherwise limited. Which is hardly going to be sustained down the years if the guy's got the unpleasant, bigoted personality which some people try to ascribe to him.

Then again, mere evidence like that probably holds no weight with those self-same small-minded people when they're determined to hold onto their prejudices about "themmuns" no matter what.

In that case EG I belated apologise and withdraw that remark I obviously wasn’t diligent enough to pay proper attention to your post and certainly not to read previous posts. I will leave you all to it on this one.

[Eirambler]

Well this is an absolute minefield...

https://www.si.com/soccer/2020/08/19/fifa-rule-cap-tie-switch-national-team-international-allegiance

First thought - Obafemi would/will no longer be confirmed for Ireland.

Smallbone could be capped in the Nations League and would still not be confirmed.

It doesn't seem to solve our Johansson/Crowley issue but creates a whole load of new ones.

Trying to find a positve...Marcus McGuane could maybe become eligible again I think. And Grealish I suppose, but that won't be happening.

Don't like the look of this at all to be honest.

[liamoo11]

Well this is an absolute minefield...

https://www.si.com/soccer/2020/08/19/fifa-rule-cap-tie-switch-national-team-international-allegiance

First thought - Obafemi would/will no longer be confirmed for Ireland.

Smallbone could be capped in the Nations League and would still not be confirmed.

It doesn't seem to solve our Johansson/Crowley issue but creates a whole load of new ones.

Trying to find a positve...Marcus McGuane could maybe become eligible again I think. And Grealish I suppose, but that won't be happening.

Don't like the look of this at all to be honest.

Great find thank you. Would like this to happen would stop us been cynical " just play will ferry for a minute in a nations league game so he cant ever switch " which you see so many advocating on ybig with no thought for the actual player.

You would hope you still wouldn't get too many ones like rice who would walk when they were wanted . Great shout on mcguane he played in those euros so he must have a passport ( hard to know how though cause he was brought in last minute that season ) .

I can see why u say it wouldn't solve the crowley or johanson problem but you would hope that a new decree like this would take precedent over that passport bylaw which seemed to have been ignored before the Luxembourgers got upset. Overall I think a positive with potential for crushing heartbreak at some point. I'll take any rule change that brings crowley in as our number 10 nearly 10 years after he first played for us.

[elatedscum]

How ironic would it be in Kenny got Grealish into the fold...

[CraftyToePoke]

McGuane who's now on loan at Oxford United ?

[ColourfulPeanut]

I think this would definitely solve the Johannsson and Crowley issue. If they're talking about letting players like Oscar play for China then it would have to.

[Olé Olé]

I'm not sure if I like the sound of this.

Again, it demonstrates how utterly ridiculous the ruling on Johansson was (and the impact on Crowley). If only the FAI were in a stronger position internally and externally within UEFA and FIFA then maybe we would have been able to force change there. Because it sounds like the Moroccans are doing their damnedest.

Also, is this the Oscar that was with Chelsea? He has 47 Brazil caps. And he was seeking a switch? Wow.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The PRC is desperate to bulk up their team with foreign imports, so I'd say they were driving a lot of the Oscar discussions.

[ColourfulPeanut]

I'm not sure if I like the sound of this.

Again, it demonstrates how utterly ridiculous the ruling on Johansson was (and the impact on Crowley). If only the FAI were in a stronger position internally and externally within UEFA and FIFA then maybe we would have been able to force change there. Because it sounds like the Moroccans are doing their damnedest.

Also, is this the Oscar that was with Chelsea? He has 47 Brazil caps. And he was seeking a switch? Wow.
He said he'd be open to a switch if FIFA relaxed the rules. But even if they did relax them he still wouldn't come close to meeting the new criteria. Munir seems to be the driving case behind it.

I still don't understand the ramifications fully after reading it. But it would immediately make Crowley and Johansson eligible as far as I know, as well as making Grealish eligible again. I could be wrong, but that's my interpretation.

Hopefully a journalist clarifies it for us!

[tetsujin1979]

This is a real can of worms. As they stand, the eligibility rules are already a mess, and for all the claims from FIFA that they want to change them to make them more favourable to smaller countries, it's these countries that will lose out when a player decides he's happy with one or two friendly caps, and it's better for his career/transfer prospects that he plays for an association higher in the rankings. The wording needs to be completely unambiguous - a player can't have been selected for his national side for three years before initiating the change. Not because he refused all call ups, not because he was an unused substitute in these games, he has to have been omitted from all senior squads for a minimum of three years. And, of course there's nothing stopping a manager from selecting a player after two and a half years in the international wilderness, just to end any chance of them changing allegiance.
Also, the three years feels really short to me. It was the same in rugby for players who wanted to represent another country on residency grounds until recently and was extended to five years. That meant you would definitely miss the next World Cup. A similar length of time in football would make players think twice before beginning the process.

[geysir]

There's alot of over-thinking going on here, inventing problems which don't even exist now but which might materialise out of nothing later on.

I think the proposal to allow players to switch after being capped once at senior competitive level is good move and is more of a fine tuning rather than a rule change. it's a rational progression.
It's in favour of countries outside the elite and favours dual nationals who have been not been used after being capped once at senior competitive level for one of the big shot countries.


That is only one of the FIFA statute change proposals (https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/gv5axxtvu2aydszqfiw6.pdf)
I haven't read them all of them yet

[ColourfulPeanut]

Also, the three years feels really short to me. It was the same in rugby for players who wanted to represent another country on residency grounds until recently and was extended to five years. That meant you would definitely miss the next World Cup. A similar length of time in football would make players think twice before beginning the process.
I've read the whole amendment now so have a bit of understanding.

It's only 3 years if you moved prior to the age of 10. It's still 5 years if you're over 10 and you can't have moved solely to pursue declaring for that nation. I'd imagine the latter will be down to FIFA to decide. They've actually increased the continuous living period of 2 years to 5 too, so it tightens it even more.

The ruling is they can now change if

Fielded in any "A" international. (So any Nations League, qualifier or friendly)
"Held" the nationality of new association when fielded.
The player had to be under 21 during their last appearance.
Played less than 3 games.
Hasn't played in a "final" tournament of the FIFA World Cup or a Confederation Cup (Euros etc.)


It's not ambiguous at all really. Take Michael Obafemi for example. Would now be eligible for England/Nigeria from November 6 2021 unless any of the following things happen



He plays 3 more senior games for Ireland
He plays for Ireland after he turns 21
He plays for Ireland in the Euros/World Cup.


It's not as worm can opening as first thought.

One interesting caveat that relates to Johansson and Crowley is 5.2. All the below is new

"There is a distinction between holding a nationality and being eligible to obtain a nationality. A playerholds a nationality if, through the operation of a national law, they have:

a) automatically received a nationality (e.g. from birth) without being required to undertake anyfurther administrative requirements (e.g. abandoning a separate nationality); or
b) acquired a nationality by undertaking a naturalisation process."


Sound bad for us with them. Seems like our foreign birth register will be our undoing moving forward even with the amendment. So even though grandkids have the right to a passport from birth, they have to complete "further administrative requirements" to get it. It's a grey area that the FAI could and should argue.

[Eirambler]

Yep, that's Johansson and Crowley 100% screwed along with a whole host of other granny rulers down the line that would previously have been eligible to play for us.


Presumably it can't be retrospectively applied to Callum Robinson.


It's a bit of a disaster all round to be honest. A rule change that is supposedly meant to help smaller nations actually screws Ireland, a smaller nation, over on a number of points


- a number of players who previously qualified for us through ancestry now ruled ineligible
- at least one senior international who was confirmed as an Irish international player no longer confirmed for us
- now difficult, bordering on impossible, for us to confirm any player eligible for any other country in addition to Ireland as an Irish player until they're at least 22 years old.

EDIT - on fully reading the FIFA document, quite a lot of the above is incorrect, please ignore!

[ColourfulPeanut]

Yep, that's Johansson and Crowley 100% screwed along with a whole host of other granny rulers down the line that would previously have been eligible to play for us.

Presumably it can't be retrospectively applied to Callum Robinson.

It's a bit of a disaster all round to be honest. A rule change that is supposedly meant to help smaller nations actually screws Ireland, a smaller nation, over on a number of points

- a number of players who previously qualified for us through ancestry now ruled ineligible
- at least one senior international who was confirmed as an Irish international player no longer confirmed for us
- now difficult, bordering on impossible, for us to confirm any player eligible for any other country in addition to Ireland as an Irish player until they're at least 22 years old.
It'd be their 21st Birthday, not their 22nd. Just for clarification! But yes, bad overall.

We really need to be arguing about the foriegn births thing. It's not part of a naturalisation process. It's literally just telling the country that the child exists.

[geysir]

I beg to differ in interpretation, IMO. Dan would be eligible for a switch.

NR. 9 Change of Association
If the eligible player was under 21 years age when last capped by the first country, there is no need to have already held the nationality of the country he wishes to switch to. Welcome back Dan.

A dual national player still can only request one switch.
However a player who requested a switch but not capped, can reverse the switch. This was the case anyway but now it's in writing.


Nationality acquired via residence is being clarified to allow for migration, "movement of the people".
Most probably these were already practised by FIFA but are now in writing.

[Eirambler]

Ok, interesting, thanks for that.

So let's take Johansson as a (difficult) example. Played for Luxembourg, tried to switch to Ireland and couldn't.

Then switched to Sweden. Hasn't represented them yet.

Could he now switch back to us if he wanted to? Or can he only go back to Luxembourg now?

[ColourfulPeanut]

I beg to differ in interpretation, IMO. Dan would be eligible for a switch.

NR. 9 Change of Association
If the eligible player was under 21 years age when last capped by the first country, there is no need to have already held the nationality of the country he wishes to switch to. Welcome back Dan.

A dual national player still can only request one switch.
However a player who requested a switch but not capped, can reverse the switch. This was the case anyway but now it's in writing.


Nationality acquired via residence is being clarified to allow for migration, "movement of the people".
Most probably these were already practised by FIFA but are now in writing.
Looks like you could be right!

9 B
ii) at the time of being fielded for his first match in an official competition in any kind of football for his current association, he did not hold the nationality of the association which he wishes to represent;Proposal for amendments to the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes 5
iii) at the time of being fielded for his last match in an official competition in any kind of football for his current association, he had not turned 21 years old

This would make Crowley instantly available and Johansson eligible 3 years after his u21 cap for Luxembourg? Or does the 3 years only apply to senior games?

That second part wasn't the case before no? As in Grealish couldn't play for us soon as he submitted the papers, but he now can theoretically?

[geysir]

Ok, interesting, thanks for that.

So let's take Johansson as a (difficult) example. Played for Luxembourg, tried to switch to Ireland and couldn't.

Then switched to Sweden. Hasn't represented them yet.

Could he now switch back to us if he wanted to? Or can he only go back to Luxembourg now?
I'm not bothered about Ryan too much, he has chosen his nest of convenience.

Afaiu, Ryan can only reverse the switch, if uncapped at any level he can switch back to his original country Luxembourg.
That falls under 9.5.

To me it looks like he would not be allowed to switch to Ireland. Maybe FIFA are only thinking dual nationals here and not for players like Ryan who is trio national. Maybe we need another new rule for Trio Nationals:).

[Diggs246]

I've read the whole amendment now so have a bit of understanding.

It's only 3 years if you moved prior to the age of 10. It's still 5 years if you're over 10 and you can't have moved solely to pursue declaring for that nation. I'd imagine the latter will be down to FIFA to decide. They've actually increased the continuous living period of 2 years to 5 too, so it tightens it even more.

The ruling is they can now change if

Fielded in any "A" international. (So any Nations League, qualifier or friendly)
"Held" the nationality of new association when fielded.
The player had to be under 21 during their last appearance.
Played less than 3 games.
Hasn't played in a "final" tournament of the FIFA World Cup or a Confederation Cup (Euros etc.)


It's not ambiguous at all really. Take Michael Obafemi for example. Would now be eligible for England/Nigeria from November 6 2021 unless any of the following things happen



He plays 3 more senior games for Ireland
He plays for Ireland after he turns 21
He plays for Ireland in the Euros/World Cup.


It's not as worm can opening as first thought.

One interesting caveat that relates to Johansson and Crowley is 5.2. All the below is new

"There is a distinction between holding a nationality and being eligible to obtain a nationality. A playerholds a nationality if, through the operation of a national law, they have:

a) automatically received a nationality (e.g. from birth) without being required to undertake anyfurther administrative requirements (e.g. abandoning a separate nationality); or
b) acquired a nationality by undertaking a naturalisation process."


Sound bad for us with them. Seems like our foreign birth register will be our undoing moving forward even with the amendment. So even though grandkids have the right to a passport from birth, they have to complete "further administrative requirements" to get it. It's a grey area that the FAI could and should argue.

Are u saying someone could play in a full qualifier ie Slovakia and still switch? that sounds ridiculous are u sure?

[tetsujin1979]

I'm not bothered about Ryan too much, he has chosen his nest of convenience.

Afaiu, Ryan can only reverse the switch, if uncapped at any level he can switch back to his original country Luxembourg.
That falls under 9.5.

To me it looks like he would not be allowed to switch to Ireland. Maybe FIFA are only thinking dual nationals here and not for players like Ryan who is trio national. Maybe we need another new rule for Trio Nationals:).

That's a bit harsh. He wanted to play for Ireland, and was going through the procedures, until the Luxembourg FA stepped in and alerted FIFA to his ineligibility. He was eligible for Sweden, so he's decided to declare for them.

[ColourfulPeanut]

I'm not bothered about Ryan too much, he has chosen his nest of convenience.

Afaiu, Ryan can only reverse the switch, if uncapped at any level he can switch back to his original country Luxembourg.
That falls under 9.5.

To me it looks like he would not be allowed to switch to Ireland. Maybe FIFA are only thinking dual nationals here and not for players like Ryan who is trio national. Maybe we need another new rule for Trio Nationals:).
This is only the case if he has formally requested a switch to Sweden or if he needed to? If he hasn't made an official request yet then there's nothing tying him to Sweden moreso than us.


Are u saying someone could play in a full qualifier ie Slovakia and still switch? that sounds ridiculous are u sure?
Yeah, that's the new rules if it gets approved.

[geysir]

Hopefully a journalist clarifies it for us!
Au contraire, the odds are that the more screwed on journalists will be on here to find out what's what. One our most learned members, Danny Invincible wrote the treatise on FIFA eligibility.
Now he'll probably have to update it, hopefully he will return here.

[geysir]

This is only the case if he has formally requested a switch to Sweden or if he needed to? If he hasn't made an official request yet then there's nothing tying him to Sweden moreso than us.

Eirambler's question assumed Ryan had already applied to FIFA for the switch. And Ryan would have to apply to FIFA to switch from Luxembourg, no question.

[geysir]

That's a bit harsh. He wanted to play for Ireland, and was going through the procedures, until the Luxembourg FA stepped in and alerted FIFA to his ineligibility. He was eligible for Sweden, so he's decided to declare for them.

It is more likely that Ryan's request to transfer to ireland was halted at the FIFA office, regardless of any intervention by Luxembourg FA.. FIFA would have been presented with a list of Ryan's Luxembourg games and a copy of his irish passport.

Since he has personally stated his declaration for Sweden and has been quoted how happy he is with that decision, with their style of play and longs to play for them at a Finals, perhaps offering an indirect little barb at Ireland's style of play and lack of Finals appearances.

I think it's fair enough to opine that he has chosen his nest and not likely to reconsider, even if he was eligibile to.

[CraftyToePoke]

It is more likely that Ryan's request to transfer to ireland was halted at the FIFA office, regardless of any intervention by Luxembourg FA.. FIFA would have been presented with a list of Ryan's Luxembourg games and a copy of his irish passport.

So why wouldn't Callum Robinson have been halted too so ?

As I understood it Luxembourg kicking up has caused all this.

[ColourfulPeanut]

So why wouldn't Callum Robinson have been halted too so ?

As I understood it Luxembourg kicking up has caused all this.
It's all down to quirk in our national law with the foreign births register, which I imagine FIFA were entirely unaware of prior to Luxembourg kicking off alright.

[Eirambler]

Decided to go and read the full document before posting further, so that hopefully what I post from here on is correct...

So it appears that there are positives and negatives to what's in the document from an Irish POV - hopefully we can benefit from the positives and defend ourselves as best we can against the negatives.

The positives as I see it:

- It seems to resolve the Irish foreign birth register issue for the most part
- Dan Crowley can now play for us
- The likes of Bamford and Mikey Johnston, among others potentially caught by the FBR issue can also play for us if they decided they wanted to (doubt either of those two will)
- Also, some previous switchers can, if they wished to, switch back to us (if they have never played for the country they switched to competitively at underage level or won any senior caps)
- Future granny rule qualifiers won't be ruled out of playing for us if they play underage for another country, only if they represent that country's senior team
- If someone like Joe Hodge decided to switch to England, he wouldn't automatically be lost to us, it would only happen if he played a competitive underage game for them or got a senior cap
- Callum Robinson is actually eligible to play for us now, which is nice!

The negatives:

- Obafemi is no longer Irish confirmed - as things stand he could be capped by England or Nigeria from November next year onward
- We can't confirm the likes of Smallbone by playing him in the Nations League or playoffs, until he's capped after his 21st birthday or we cap him four times.
- We can't confirm any dual national aged under 21 for us unless we cap them four times (possibly including at least one competitive cap?) or cap them at a tournament finals
- If Johansson has sent through his paperwork for Sweden he now can't play for us (if he hasn't sent it through he would now be eligible for Ireland, although that ship has sailed I think)
- Someone like Marcus McGuane, who played competitively for us at underage and then played competitively for England at underage, still cannot switch back to us because of those competitive appearances. This seems to rule out Grealish for us as well (unlikely he was going to switch back anyway).
- it's just a lot harder to understand overall
- there's likely to be a lot more South Americans playing for middle east and far east nations as a result of this

Obviously all this is subject to the document being ratified by FIFA next month, though that will most likely be a formality.

All in all, not as bad as I had originally feared. Feel free to correct me if any of the above is wrong, it really is a minefield now with so many different rules for different situations.

[Diggs246]

But jack grealish like Johansson sent in his paperwork. Surely they are either both gone or both available ?

[Eirambler]

But jack grealish like Johansson sent in his paperwork. Surely they are either both gone or both available ?

Apparently not. Grealish hasn't yet played for England so would be allowed to switch back to Ireland.

Similarly Johansson hasn't played for Sweden so would be allowed to switch back to Luxembourg.

The problem for us with Johansson is that, if his Sweden switch has gone through, we're now his third country and there doesn't seem to be any provision for a third country in the new regulations.

Edit: Looks like Grealish is ineligible also after playing for England under 21s. So they're probably both ineligible, but for different reasons!

[ColourfulPeanut]

Decided to go and read the full document before posting further, so that hopefully what I post from here on is correct...
- Someone like Marcus McGuane, who played competitively for us at underage and then played competitively for England at underage, still cannot switch back to us because of those competitive appearances

This is the only one I interpreted differently. Why can't he switch back? He hasn't played 3 times at senior level or played for England over the age of 21. My interpretation is he can switch after 3 years have passed since his last England appearance? Why is he different to Grealish?

I could be wrong too!