Eligibility Rules, Okay

[geysir]

From what I could read, the article by Rogan on WSC is just bland. He doesn't demonstrate that he has actually read/understood the statutes, or have the first notion about Irish identity, yet he doesn't stick his foot in too deep either. He appears to swallow the claptrap scare theory of sectarian divisions being entrenched.
He does incorrectly claim the IFA have taken several unsuccessful cases to the CAS. And we all know, that while it is a believable notion that the IFA would be quite capable of going repeatedly to the CAS against all known wisdom, they could only afford to finance one such folly.

If WSC prints that, it can't be too difficult to get an article on there.
Except for Danny, being restricted to a 1000 words would severely cramp his style.

[ArdeeBhoy]

'Interesting' assertion by Linfield's 'finest' upthread about Aaron Rogan being 'an ROI supporter'?
Are you sure of that, despite the name? And surely by default he must also then be a 'provo'?
:rolleyes:


The views of the NI fans interviewed are so ignorant: This "play for where you're born" stuff is very insular.
Not to mention the 'blind' hypocrisy.


Blind fury is the default response when "your" players opt for the FAI.
But when did their ignorance or paranoia ever stop them exhibiting such archaic views??

[DannyInvincible]

How do we know this Aaron Rogan is an Ireland fan? To be honest, I wouldn't get that impression from the slant he takes; describing James McClean's "defection" as having been executed in a "particularly galling manner" and failing to understand the nature of Irish nationality amongst other things.

A few points:


The "defections" may be more high-profile in recent times, but it isn't accurate to say the FAI has begun selecting an increasing number of northern-born players.
Armstrong's role clearly is not only to persuade players to remain within the IFA's set-up; the scope of his role also extends to convincing players currently registered with other associations to declare for the IFA, or what many NI fans like to call poaching.
The Carling Nations Cup boycott organised by the AoNISC that eventually became a reality was solely down to disgruntlement over the travel arrangements for NI fans; some bright spark on OWC then suggested after the fact that they try and play it off as if the boycott was also provoked by the player eligibility issue. Certain parties then began pushing this fabrication in the media. If this was "barely publicised", that was probably due to the fact that it wasn't the real issue. The reality was that ideas for an initial boycott over the player eligibility issue had already failed miserably.
I'm not sure I understand what he means by an "opportunistic approach taken by the FAI". Every association is free to take the opportunity to operate within the legal framework set out by FIFA. It's not as if the FAI have struck lucky and are operating shrewdly through some unique loophole applicable only to them.
"FIFA statutes do not inhibit their decision to represent the Republic, even without geographic or familial ties." - Clearly, Rogan has never read the relevant statutes. The general eligibility principle has absolutely nothing to do with "geographic or familial ties".
As geysir points out, I don't know what these "several" cases taken against the FAI to the CAS are.

[Gather round]

How do we know this Aaron Rogan is an Republic of Ireland fan?

Aaron's previous articles for WSC:

March 2011: RoI wary of having a Macedonia

November 2010: Shamrock Rovers win the League of Ireland

October 2009: Decisive Dublin Derby

July 2009: Shamrock Rovers to take on Galacticos

March 2009: Crisis over for League of Ireland

There does sem to be a recurring theme...

[geysir]

How do we know this Aaron Rogan is an Ireland fan? To be honest, I wouldn't get that impression from the slant he takes; describing James McClean's "defection" as having been executed in a "particularly galling manner" and failing to understand the nature of Irish nationality amongst other things.

A few points:


The "defections" may be more high-profile in recent times, but it isn't accurate to say the FAI has begun selecting an increasing number of northern-born players.
Armstrong's role clearly is not only to persuade players to remain within the IFA's set-up; the scope of his role also extends to convincing players currently registered with other associations to declare for the IFA, or what many NI fans like to call poaching.
The Carling Nations Cup boycott organised by the AoNISC that eventually became a reality was solely down to disgruntlement over the travel arrangements for NI fans; some bright spark on OWC then suggested after the fact that they try and play it off as if the boycott was also provoked by the player eligibility issue. Certain parties then began pushing this fabrication in the media. If this was "barely publicised", that was probably due to the fact that it wasn't the real issue. The reality was that ideas for an initial boycott over the player eligibility issue had already failed miserably.
I'm not sure I understand what he means by an "opportunistic approach taken by the FAI". Every association is free to take the opportunity to operate within the legal framework set out by FIFA. It's not as if the FAI have struck lucky and are operating shrewdly through some unique loophole applicable only to them.
"FIFA statutes do not inhibit their decision to represent the Republic, even without geographic or familial ties." - Clearly, Rogan has never read the relevant statutes. The general eligibility principle has absolutely nothing to do with "geographic or familial ties".
As geysir points out, I don't know what these "several" cases taken against the FAI to the CAS are.


But we all know the IFA travel arrangement security plan was a very convenient excuse for the OWC fans to bottle out of witnessing the inevitable drubbing of a weakened NI team :)
I think it's fair enough for Rogan to write about the boycott (that world famous Fenian act of protest).
Some sort of a boycott plan existed, whilst it was not the reason why the OWC fans did not travel, talk and support of the sentiments involved in the boycott was in many ways representative of how OWC perceived the eligibility issue.
It's a difficult one for the OWC to understand, that nationhood is not partitioned.

[SwanVsDalton]

The article was written by Aaron Rogan - an ROI supporter, from the Republic Of Ireland.

Seems you were wrong.

He's from the South. So I'll withdraw what I said and instead underline he's an even bigger idiot than I realised.

[geysir]

Just because he is from the South means jack.
He could be from Dublin or worse, Cork.
He could be a member of the average ignorant southern gobs community that look upon anything north of the border, with condescension.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aaron's previous articles for WSC:


November 2010: Shamrock Rovers win the League of Ireland

October 2009: Decisive Dublin Derby

July 2009: Shamrock Rovers to take on Galacticos

March 2009: Crisis over for League of Ireland

There does seem to be a recurring theme...

He's a Shams fan?

[Sullivinho]

..or worse, Cork.

He didn't wlk out he wuz sent home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!

/rage

[geysir]

Typical Corkonian, too lazy to use the appropriate smilie but want to subvert what passes for discussion board norms.

[Mr_Parker]

Yet more nonsense from Gerry Armstrong on Radio Ulster this morning. They were doing a piece on yesterdays documentary, when the interviewer and another contributer pushed Armstrong on his "immoral approaches" of 14 & 15 year olds, he had to conceed that he didn't have any evidence of such that tied anyone allegedly talking to them of having any connection to the FAI whatsoever!

Oh, and he was still waffling on about the GFA.

[Not Brazil]

He's from the South. So I'll withdraw what I said and instead underline he's an even bigger idiot than I realised.

Fair play Swan.

[Not Brazil]

The Carling Nations Cup boycott organised by the AoNISC that eventually became a reality was solely down to disgruntlement over the travel arrangements for NI fans; some bright spark on OWC then suggested after the fact that they try and play it off as if the boycott was also provoked by the player eligibility issue. Certain parties then began pushing this fabrication in the media. If this was "barely publicised", that was probably due to the fact that it wasn't the real issue. The reality was that ideas for an initial boycott over the player eligibility issue had already failed miserably.


The Northern Ireland fans who claimed the boycott was in relation to the eligibility issue (which it wasn't, as you correctly state) have been rather quiet about the "poaching" of Alex Bruce by the IFA.

I wonder if/when he is named in a Northern Ireland squad will they boycott the fixture?

[Not Brazil]

Oh, and he was still waffling on about the GFA.

Dear God.:(

[Not Brazil]

'Interesting' assertion by Linfield's 'finest' upthread about Aaron Rogan being 'an ROI supporter'?
Are you sure of that, despite the name?


Yes, quite sure.

[ifk101]

The Northern Ireland fans who claimed the boycott was in relation to the eligibility issue (which it wasn't, as you correctly state) have been rather quiet about the "poaching" of Alex Bruce by the IFA.

Who exactly?


I wonder if/when he is named in a Northern Ireland squad will they boycott the fixture?

Hopefully. The last boycott worked a treat.

[Not Brazil]

Who exactly?


The Northern Ireland fans who claimed the raison d'etre of the Carling Cup boycott was because of the eligibility issue.

[ifk101]

The Northern Ireland fans who claimed the raison d'etre of the Carling Cup boycott was because of the eligibility issue.

And who are they since they "have been rather quiet about the "poaching" of Alex Bruce by the IFA"? Or were you generalising?

[Not Brazil]

And who are they since they "have been rather quiet about the "poaching" of Alex Bruce by the IFA"? Or were you generalising?

Some of those who post on NI fans' forums.

[ifk101]

Some of those who post on NI fans' forums.

There's a poll on the OWC's facebook page where 209 votes out of 270 votes in total (77% of all votes) were for the option "I do not agree with the nicking of players by the FAI" to the question "Why are you not attending the Carling Nations Cup?".

[Not Brazil]

There's a poll on the OWC's facebook page where 209 votes out of 270 votes in total (77% of all votes) were for the option "I do not agree with the nicking of players by the FAI" to the question "Why are you not attending the Carling Nations Cup?".

Funny that 6,000 Northern Ireland fans attended the Scotland game.

Anyway, I wonder will these 209 fans boycott Northern Ireland matches because they "do not agree with the nicking of players by the IFA" eg, Alex Bruce.

[ArdeeBhoy]

But didn't you say you'd refuse to attend if Bruce was selected for a squad?
Not that it should matter anyway.

[Not Brazil]

But didn't you say you'd refuse to attend if Bruce was selected for a squad?


That's correct.

I will not attend any Northern Ireland International match where Bruce is named in the squad.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So were you one of the 209 then??
;)

[Not Brazil]

So were you one of the 209 then??
;)

No, I wasn't.

[ifk101]

Funny that 6,000 Northern Ireland fans attended the Scotland game

Apparently. If memory serves me correctly the behaviour of a tiny few NI "fans" (allegely) lead to more restrictive travel arrangements for the game with Ireland. Pricing for these travel arrangements was also an issue. This lead to calls for a boycott which was hijacked by those wishing to highlight the eligibility issue. As the poll on the OWC facebook page suggests, this hijack was successful in gaining support.


Anyway, I wonder will these 209 fans boycott Northern Ireland matches because they "do not agree with the nicking of players by the IFA" eg, Alex Bruce.

Probably a question more suited to the NI fans forums. But perhaps you should not assume they are opposed to the nicking of players per se as the option they selected was "I do not agree with the nicking of players by the FAI"

[ArdeeBhoy]

No, I wasn't.

So no hypocrisy there then??
:rolleyes:

[Not Brazil]

Apparently. If memory serves me correctly the behaviour of a tiny few NI "fans" (allegely) lead to more restrictive travel arrangements for the game with Ireland. Pricing for these travel arrangements was also an issue. This lead to calls for a boycott which was hijacked by those wishing to highlight the eligibility issue. As the poll on the OWC facebook page suggests, this hijack was successful in gaining support.


That's about the height of it.

The OWC poll would not have been indicative of a broader spectrum of NI fans - 209 fans compared to the 6,000 who attended the Scotland game.

On another forum, the majority of NI fans who chose not to attend the games v the South and Wales cited their reasons as being the travel restrictions imposed by the IFA and the costings.

[Not Brazil]

So no hypocrisy there then??
:rolleyes:

No - none at all.

[ifk101]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15237909

More....

[Mr_Parker]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15237909

More....

That appears to have been quotes lifted from the radio broadcast this morning that I mentioned.

[Not Brazil]

Also from today's Belfast Telegraph, Alan McDonald gives his tuppence worth on eligibility matters.

“When I was working with the Northern Ireland Under-21s the problem of keeping players in the set-up always existed but I find the Fifa ruling unbelievable as it goes against their own dictates.

“I don’t know how a team of lawyers could come up with that decision.”


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/worthington-must-go-says-old-pal-alan-mcdonald-16061534.html#ixzz1aNWPYM6r

[BonnieShels]

This page is always handy for quotable lobotomies.

What I always have a vision of in my head when confronted with this idiocy is of that scene in the Simpsons where Homer is in charge of a carnie game and Wiggum is trying to bribe him.

It's a ring-toss game!

[Not Brazil]

It'll be interesting to see what Ferguson does, when NW steps down* after tomorrow night's match.

*As confirmed within the last hour.

[BonnieShels]

Link?

[Not Brazil]

Link?



http://irishfa.com/news/item/6831/irish-fa-statement-nigel-worthington/

[boovidge]

Why is it ok for ireland or northern ireland to approach young players from, say, england who are eligible to play for them but suddenly it's a moral outrage if the roi approach eligible players born in ni? If they don't want to play for us then they won't.

Also not brazil, why is playing alex bruce worse than playing maik taylor? At least bruce has some sort of connection to ni.

[Newryrep]

Caught a bit of the morning ulster broadcast this morning even Cathal Dervan mentioned the GFA - I think it is a wind up at this stage will.. try and catch it on bbc player

[BonnieShels]

http://irishfa.com/news/item/6831/irish-fa-statement-nigel-worthington/

Cheers... could a career in the LOI beckon with MON and Madge taking over the IFA's representative team?

[Not Brazil]

Cheers... could a career in the LOI beckon with MON and Madge taking over the IFA's representative team?

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Magilton appointed.

Don't think MON will be in the frame this time round - his day will come.

I'd like to see Brian Kerr in charge.

[Not Brazil]

Also not brazil, why is playing alex bruce worse than playing maik taylor? At least bruce has some sort of connection to ni.

I believe I dealt with that issue earlier in the thread.

[geysir]

From that Belfast telegraph article, where I learn some new snippet of ignorance every day.

'Northern Ireland’s selection woes are deepened by the eligibility ruling that allows anyone up to the age of 28 with an Irish passport to play for the Republic of Ireland as long as they haven’t played a competive game for Northern Ireland.'

[Stuttgart88]

Good lord, that one is astonishing.

[BonnieShels]

The BT just keeps on giving doesn't it

[DannyInvincible]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15237909

More....


"If you are born in part of Northern Ireland that is your country of birth and usually, under FIFA or UEFA rules, that would be the country you would play for.

"Because of the Good Friday Agreement if you are born in Northern Ireland you can play for Northern Ireland or you can play for the Republic of Ireland."

Dear Jesus. Reading that, I'd have to question whether Armstrong has even read the statutes. Neither the general principle nor the other statutes relevant to player eligibility dictate anything about a country of birth usually being the country you play for. Besides, one can be born an Irish national throughout the whole island of Ireland anyway.


Also from today's Belfast Telegraph, Alan McDonald gives his tuppence worth on eligibility matters.

“When I was working with the Northern Ireland Under-21s the problem of keeping players in the set-up always existed but I find the Fifa ruling unbelievable as it goes against their own dictates.

“I don’t know how a team of lawyers could come up with that decision.”


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/worthington-must-go-says-old-pal-alan-mcdonald-16061534.html#ixzz1aNWPYM6r

:confused: What FIFA ruling? The FIFA "ruling" (or, more correctly, rules) is/are the same thing as FIFA's "dictates".


From that Belfast telegraph article, where I learn some new snippet of ignorance every day.

'Northern Ireland’s selection woes are deepened by the eligibility ruling that allows anyone up to the age of 28 with an Irish passport to play for the Republic of Ireland as long as they haven’t played a competive game for Northern Ireland.'

Baffling. Where do they get this stuff? Has it something to do with Alex Bruce being 27 and those at the BT being extremely thick?

[Mr_Parker]

Also from today's Belfast Telegraph, Alan McDonald gives his tuppence worth on eligibility matters.

“When I was working with the Northern Ireland Under-21s the problem of keeping players in the set-up always existed but I find the Fifa ruling unbelievable as it goes against their own dictates.

“I don’t know how a team of lawyers could come up with that decision.”


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/worthington-must-go-says-old-pal-alan-mcdonald-16061534.html#ixzz1aNWPYM6r

If he keeps that up the IFA will give him a job. :D

[Mr_Parker]

Baffling. Where do they get this stuff? Has it something to do with Alex Bruce being 27 and those at the BT being extremely thick?
Journalist is a Crusaders fan, so you conclusion is probably correct. :)

[co. down green]

If he keeps that up the IFA will give him a job. :D

:)

Some brilliant reading over the last couple of days from Armstrong and the other thickos

[Drumcondra 69er]

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Magilton appointed.

Don't think MON will be in the frame this time round - his day will come.

I'd like to see Brian Kerr in charge.

I think there's a fair chance of Kerr. His Da was fom Belfast and all wasn't he?

Can't see MON this time or in the future tbh.

[Sullivinho]

Nigel gave us four great years. A misunderstood genius who won't be fully appreciated until his biopic wins minds, steals hearts and earns Adam Sandler an oscar.