Eligibility Rules, Okay

[DannyInvincible]

I'm of the opinion that if an olympic medal isn't the highest award a participant in a sport can try and win, then that sport shouldn't be an olympic sport.

In the sense it devalues the Olympics?


Some might think you're taking the píss out of the merits of golf as an olympic sport, dragging up a comparison with the Long Jump for Horses event ...... or vice versa perhaps?

Oi, I see what you did there! ;)

Why do you think it strange though? I have no opinion on its supposed "strangeness" either way; to clarify my position, it's as "normal" or "strange" as any other Olympic sport, surely. Is your thinking along the same lines as osarusan and do you see Olympic football as similarly strange then?

On McIlroy, I wonder what McIllroy's NI faithful make of his wavering? Will he too be accused of being a bigot if he declares for Ireland?...

McDowell reckons a denial of choice is the solution: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/22291923


As an aside but still on track, I wonder what the eligibility rules were for those horses and did the winning horse take home the medal?

I heard they were fairly lax; being born in a stable does not make one a horse.

[DannyInvincible]

On McIlroy, I wonder what McIllroy's...

Jaysis, how did I manage that?

[gastric]

Jaysis, how did I manage that?

Lack of editing, something I am forever gulity of!

[Gather round]

On McIlroy, I wonder what McIllroy's NI faithful make of his wavering? Will he too be accused of being a bigot if he declares for Ireland?...

McDowell reckons a denial of choice is the solution: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/22291923.

Not that bothered. Play for whoever will select you, lads. Realistically one or both of them might not have a choice of suitors, but if they both do I think they'll accept the British team offer.

Denial of choice is a bit silly.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except most of their fanbase in the North are paranoid. So what's new?

And it will be none or all who have the choice;though ultimately any selection criteria is down to the IOC and that sport's governing body.

But golf shouldn't be in the Olympics anyway;just another tournament. Like the tennis.

[Not Brazil]

On McIlroy, I wonder what McIllroy's NI faithful make of his wavering? Will he too be accused of being a bigot if he declares for Ireland?...


McIlroy enjoys cross community support amongst the golfing fraternity in Northern Ireland - I play golf at a "mixed" Club, and in a "mixed" fourball most Saturdays - we'll all be supporting McIlroy whoever he decides to play for -if he plays at all.

I suspect most of the venim directed at him when (if) he makes his choice of whom to represent will come from those who don't care much for golf - it'll come from those for whom "themuns" and "usuns" is about the limit of their understanding of "identity" in this part of the world.

[gastric]

McIlroy enjoys cross community support amongst the golfing fraternity in Northern Ireland - I play golf at a "mixed" Club, and in a "mixed" fourball most Saturdays - we'll all be supporting McIlroy whoever he decides to play for -if he plays at all.

I suspect most of the venim directed at him when (if) he makes his choice of whom to represent will come from those who don't care much for golf - it'll come from those for whom "themuns" and "usuns" is about the limit of their understanding of "identity" in this part of the world.

While I appreciate why you have used the term 'mixed', it just brings home to me how removed many aspects of life in NI are from most other societies. It both saddens me and angers me.

[Not Brazil]

While I appreciate why you have used the term 'mixed', it just brings home to me how removed many aspects of life in NI are from most other societies. It both saddens me and angers me.

It saddens me too gastric, but that's how it is.

For example, our kids are seperated along religious lines, in many cases, from their first day at school.

However, it's not all doom and gloom.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The religious divide is all down to old principle of 'divide-and-rule' as practiced by a certain dubious empire, amongst others.

[gastric]

This article, I feel, encapsulates the opinions of many on McIllroy and golf in the Olympics. It is interesting for me, as I do not experience all the hype and debate surrounding McIllroy.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/hes-our-paddy-hes-not-your-paddy-29246542.html

[Charlie Darwin]

I was disturbed to find myself broadly agreeing with Ian O'Doherty but luckily he padded the article with enough inane nonsense to allow me to continue to sleep peacefully.

McIlroy clearly identifies more with Britain than Ireland, as is his wont. I don't really understand why since being Irish is ****ing deadly, but we all have our minor eccentricities. But most of all he identifies with himself and his flip-flopping over the nationality issue is primarily an attempt to balance the commercial tightrope that is his life as a professional sportsman. It's hard to imagine McIlroy playing in the Olympics at all if there weren't millions of sponsorship dollars to be made from it.

[Irwin3]

These are the ages at which the following players started representing Ireland: Wilson (16), McCarthy (16), Gibson (15), Duffy (18). Very lazy journalism. McCarthy never switched from anyone, Gibson only played for the schoolboy team and they're all very young in the first place.

[BonnieShels]

I was disturbed to find myself broadly agreeing with Ian O'Doherty but luckily he padded the article with enough inane nonsense to allow me to continue to sleep peacefully.

McIlroy clearly identifies more with Britain than Ireland, as is his wont. I don't really understand why since being Irish is ****ing deadly, but we all have our minor eccentricities. But most of all he identifies with himself and his flip-flopping over the nationality issue is primarily an attempt to balance the commercial tightrope that is his life as a professional sportsman. It's hard to imagine McIlroy playing in the Olympics at all if there weren't millions of sponsorship dollars to be made from it.

Me too. Phew. He's bsng on the money for the Olympics part. I ignored everything after that.

[Stuttgart88]

I play golf at a "mixed" Club, and in a "mixed" fourball most Saturdays Is that one where it doesn't matter what faith or political hue you are, just as long as you're a misogynist? :)

[Not Brazil]

Is that one where it doesn't matter what faith or political hue you are, just as long as you're a misogynist? :)

:D

We really value our female members - we even give them time on the course, on their own, (5AM to 6AM everyday, the 1st tee is reserved for Ladies only)...helps us lads not being held up.

[Fixer82]

This article, I feel, encapsulates the opinions of many on McIllroy and golf in the Olympics. It is interesting for me, as I do not experience all the hype and debate surrounding McIllroy.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/hes-our-paddy-hes-not-your-paddy-29246542.html

Brutal article.
While I understand how cringeworthy it can be to claim Obama and Muhammad Ali, comparing it to Gibson, McCarthy etc is ridiculous

[gastric]

Will be interesting to see what McIllroy does.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/rory-mcilroy-considering-world-cup-appearance-after-switch-to-melbourne/story-e6frfgax-1226642627657

[Irwin3]

The plot thickens...

http://www.irishgolfdesk.com/news-files/2013/5/15/there-is-only-one-irish-team-incorporating-north-and-south-a.html

[BonnieShels]

Will be interesting to see what McIllroy does.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/rory-mcilroy-considering-world-cup-appearance-after-switch-to-melbourne/story-e6frfgax-1226642627657


Harrington is the highest-ranked player from Ireland.
Eh? Rory McIlroy is.

In saying that Aussie's aren't known for their geographic prowess.

[gastric]

Eh? Rory McIlroy is.

In saying that Aussie's aren't known for their geographic prowess.

Bonnie, While the Herald Sun is a bit of a rag, the point they are making is that Harrington would be the No1 player for Ireland, if McIllroy and McDowell represented Northern Ireland in the World Cup event.

[BonnieShels]

Bonnie, While the Herald Sun is a bit of a rag, the point they are making is that Harrington would be the No1 player for Ireland, if McIllroy and McDowell represented Northern Ireland in the World Cup event.

But Harrington isn't the highest ranked player from Ireland.

[gastric]

But Harrington isn't the highest ranked player from Ireland.

You're being awkward for the sake of it, methinks!

[BonnieShels]

You're being awkward for the sake of it, methinks!

Who's the highest ranked player from Ireland?

[gastric]

Who's the highest ranked player from Ireland?

If the article was correct, and it seems it's not, Harrington would be the highest ranked player from Ireland, if the two Macs represented NI, that is what the Sun is referring to. If you want to be pedantic about it, fine.

[BonnieShels]

If the article was correct, and it seems it's not, Harrington would be the highest ranked player from Ireland, if the two Macs represented NI, that is what the Sun is referring to. If you want to be pedantic about it, fine.

The HorseShoite was referring to a hypothetical that doesn't exist and involves them interpreting a statement ar$eways.

[gastric]

The HorseShoite was referring to a hypothetical that doesn't exist and involves them interpreting a statement ar$eways.

So I take it from your reply that you did get it wrong! :o

[BonnieShels]

So I take it from your reply that you did get it wrong! :o

I don't know how you could do that.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Just to add to the 'debate'...
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/northern-society-slowly-diversifying-census-shows-1.1396172

[co. down green]

Swansea's Belfast born striker Rory Donnelly as informed the IFA that he currently no longer wishes to be considered for selection to IFA teams.

Wolves striker Liam McAlinden has switched to the FAI.

[DannyInvincible]

Presumably, Donnelly is open to selection by the FAI then?

[Sullivinho]

Presumably, Donnelly is open to selection by the FAI then?

Rang Dublin the second he hung up with Belfast, no doubt.

[DannyInvincible]

More here: http://balls.ie/football/meet-the-latest-northern-ireland-youth-player-who-has-declared-for-the-republic


Liam McAlinden of Wolves has declared for the Republic of Ireland despite playing for Northern Ireland at youth level and after being named in their U-21 squad to play Cyprus this week. The striker was born in England and qualifies for the North through his grandmother. He had the option of declaring for the North, the Republic and England. Northern Ireland manager Michael O’Neill was very disappointed in McAlinden’s decision telling the BBC:

“Liam is a player who we had high hopes for and we’ve tried everything to keep him, I even went down to meet Liam and his agent Stephen. Could you imagine Giovanni Trapattoni doing that?

But that’s what we need to do because we have such a small pool of players to choose from.

Sadly for us the pull of the Republic was too strong. Liam qualifies for us through his grandfather born in Northern Ireland but most of his family are from the Republic.
I think they’ve been in his ear and obviously family means a lot to a player, and he’s chosen to go and try his luck with the Republic.”

McAlinden joins the likes of James McClean and Darron Gibson in declaring for the Republic ahead of the North.

Another two players Middlesbrough midfielder Jordan Jones and Swansea forward Rory Donnelly have also said they do not wish to be considered for selection for Northern Ireland.

[BonnieShels]

More here: http://balls.ie/football/meet-the-latest-northern-ireland-youth-player-who-has-declared-for-the-republic


Could you imagine Giovanni Trapattoni doing that?

He desn't have to.

http://torc.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/trapattoni-100-La-Gazzetta-dello-Sport.jpg

He whistle; they come, if they have the personality.

[DannyInvincible]

And some more from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22745927


Wolves striker Liam McAlinden has become the latest player to switch allegiance from Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland.

The teenager, who has represented NI at youth level, follows players including James McClean to make the move.

Meanwhile, Middlesbrough midfielder Jordan Jones and Swansea forward Rory Donnelly do not wish to be considered for selection for Northern Ireland.

The trio had been named in the U21 squad to play Cyprus on Thursday night.

"We've made these players feel very welcome, but ultimately it's their decision and now we must concentrate on the players who do want to play for Northern Ireland," Northern Ireland senior manager Michael O'Neill told the Sunday Life.

Darron Gibson, Shane Duffy, Marc Wilson and Daniel Kearns also opted for the Republic after playing for Northern Ireland at youth level.

They took advantage of a Fifa ruling that allows players from the island of Ireland to choose which national side they represent, provided they have not played for the other in a competitive senior international.

This ruling did not apply to McAlinden, who is English-born and had the option of playing for Northern Ireland, the Republic and England.

Where do they concoct this nonsense?

It seems Donnelly's future intentions are still uncertain, however...


It is believed Jones, born on Teeside, wants to play for England while the international intentions of former Cliftonville forward Donnelly are unclear.

"He hasn't ruled anything out in the future and certainly hasn't closed the door on playing for Northern Ireland," said Donnelly's agent Gerry Carlisle.

[Paddy Garcia]

Glad to see this thread get back to its core purpose - breaking news on international newcomers.

[CraftyToePoke]

Wolves striker Liam McAlinden has switched to the FAI.

Good news, a guy with a chance from early showings.

[BonnieShels]

And some more from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22745927



Where do they concoct this nonsense?




I presume a strongly worded response is in the offing Danny?

[BonnieShels]

Couldn't resist:


The article regarding the switching of Liam McAlinden's "allegiance" to the FAI from the IFA contains a comment which is factually incorrect and is also a common error contained within most articles pertaining to eligibility of Irish citizens who wish to play for their country.

The following is the inaccurate paragraph:
"Darron Gibson, Shane Duffy, Marc Wilson and Daniel Kearns also opted for the Rep. after playing for N. Ireland at youth level.
They took advantage of a Fifa ruling that allows players from the island of Ireland to choose which national side they represent, provided they have not played for the other in a competitive senior international. This ruling did not apply to McAlinden..."

There is no such ruling. Darron Gibson and Daniel Kearns et al chose to play for their senior national team based on FIFA statutes that apply to EVERY national team on the planet.
There may be some confusion stemming possibly from the CAS ruling against the IFA re Daniel Kearns right to play for the representative teams of the FAI.
I would suggest that as the primary news resource for Britain that maybe you guys could brush up on the very basics of the FIFA statutes when discussing them in relation to Irish nationals who wish to switch "allegiance".

May I point you to:
http://playereligibilityinireland.blogspot.ie/2011/06/fifa-player-eligibility-in-context-of.html
and the Daniel Kearns CAS ruling:
http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/4385/5048/0/Award202071.pdf

[DannyInvincible]

Ha, good job! You saved me the time, which I don't have a lot of at the minute.

[DannyInvincible]

Actually, the BBC's wording also gives the impression that anyone born anywhere on the island can play for either side, which, of course, is not the case. A Dublin-born Irish national with no connection to NI as stipulated in the statutes cannot declare for the IFA, for example. I just can't understand how they can still be so ignorant and misinformed in relation to the eligibility issue.

[BonnieShels]

Actually, the BBC's wording also gives the impression that anyone born anywhere on the island can play for either side, which, of course, is not the case. A Dublin-born Irish national with no connection to NI as stipulated in the statutes cannot declare for the IFA, for example. I just can't understand how they can still be so ignorant and misinformed in relation to the eligibility issue.

I was gonna bring that up too but the complaints website limits the amount you can write.

I couldn't complain on the BBC Sport site so submitted an official complaint hence the change in text from what I posted a few minutes ago.

[IsMiseSean]

Would Rory Donnelly be eligible for our upcoming U21 campaign?
We seem to lack strikers maybe Noel could have a word...

[gastric]

Donnelly's position is interesting. O'Neill seems to believe he will not play for us, so why is he not willing to commit to them?
Should King call him up and see what happens? Lots of questioned that will need some sort of answer in the near future. It will certainly kick this thread back into life!

Player profile on Jones, he seems to be a tricky winger type!
Also, Wolves fans seem to really rate McAlinden and many think him joining us is a very good idea!

http://www.questia.com/library/1G1-290892981/banish-the-republic-ni-football-superkid-donnelly

http://www.mfc.co.uk/page/squad/senior/biography/0,,1~63963,00.html

http://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=81991

[Newryrep]

I see Billy Hamiliton has moved on......... from the Befast Telegraph today

'The other problem we have is the North/South issue.

I have no problem whatsoever if a young boy from a nationalist area wants to declare for the Republic, but some of these boys are being brought up through our system – it's like taking a nice piece of fruit, where they come along and say, 'this is ripe for the picking.'

If they want to take a player who has come through the IFA ranks, they should have to pay a compensation fee of somewhere between, say, half a million and a million pounds a player.

If they had to make that payment when they capped the player, it would make them think twice about whether he was worth it.

I know it's a thorny issue, but everyone would benefit.

The Republic would get a promising player, and we would get money that could be put back into the IFA to develop and coach more young players.

If I were involved in the IFA I wouldn't give up on this and would be lobbying Fifa about it.

In terms of the manager Michael O'Neill, I know results haven't gone his way, but I actually think he is doing a good job with the players he has at his disposal.'

[CraftyToePoke]

I have no problem whatsoever if a young boy from a nationalist area wants to declare for the Republic

Lovely turn of phrase in what was left unsaid.

What if the day comes, a lad who isn't from a nationalist area, decides purely from the viewpoint of his football career (as lets face it, several English born lads most likely have done down the years) to exercise his option to play for R.O.I. And the climate has evolved to a point where he would feel ok in doing this.

I realise and accept this will be met with varying responses but I'd view it as a truly wonderful moment for humanity on the island.

[SkStu]

Why would we pay compensation to the IFA? Are they going to pay compensation to the English FA for the number of players they have capped that have been trained exclusively through the english system? Silly Billy.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Amen to the last two posts.

Though tbf, both points have been fairly raised before but worth repeating...

[DannyInvincible]

Player profile on Jones, he seems to be a tricky winger type!

Jones isn't interested in declaring for us. He has his sights set on playing for England.

[DannyInvincible]

I see Billy Hamiliton has moved on......... from the Befast Telegraph today

'The other problem we have is the North/South issue.

I have no problem whatsoever if a young boy from a nationalist area wants to declare for the Republic, but some of these boys are being brought up through our system – it's like taking a nice piece of fruit, where they come along and say, 'this is ripe for the picking.'

If they want to take a player who has come through the IFA ranks, they should have to pay a compensation fee of somewhere between, say, half a million and a million pounds a player.

If they had to make that payment when they capped the player, it would make them think twice about whether he was worth it.

I know it's a thorny issue, but everyone would benefit.

The Republic would get a promising player, and we would get money that could be put back into the IFA to develop and coach more young players.

If I were involved in the IFA I wouldn't give up on this and would be lobbying Fifa about it.

In terms of the manager Michael O'Neill, I know results haven't gone his way, but I actually think he is doing a good job with the players he has at his disposal.'

Seeing as international football is an entirely voluntary endeavour - in terms of an association volunteering to select and train a player if they so wish and a player volunteering to offer his playing services to an association if he so wishes - with no contractual obligations in place, talk of compensation is nonsensical.

It's also hypocritical for NI fans to make such demands, as Stu has pointed out.

There's also the issue of actually quantifying the value of benefits or services exchanged between player and association. It's not the one-way process some appear to think it is from which only the player has benefited to the detriment of the association concerned in the sense that that player will have returned something of value back to the association by partaking in their squad(s) and offering his playing services to them (and the paying supporters who turn up to watch them).

Edit just to add: Where on earth is Hamilton plucking the figure of "somewhere between, say, half a million and a million pounds a player" from? Just how significant is the contribution of an international association to a young player's development anyway? Surely, it's highly unlikely they'll have invested anywhere near such a sum in an individual player. It's not like club football where a player's club will have been paying him wages to justify such amounts when it comes to transfer fees, compensation and whatnot.

[ArdeeBhoy]

A slight update.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22760647