Eligibility Rules, Okay

[ArdeeBhoy]

Don't what your day job is, but you should working for The FAI...

[paul_oshea]

All these wannabe Rossies....
;)

The only prominent one I know is a former Roscommon football star now a publican in Tottenham, N.London and a massive Man.U. fan to boot.
:eek:

I did a good interview with him for a programme last year, he does love both forms of football alright - and was a handy player too at both.

DI i take it you're from Derry, there is another well known poster on here who has a mother from North Roscommon also from Derry, he also posts quite long detailed posts. I reckon there must be a connection somewhere.

Please explain what this over the years of 18 thing means, ive not heard that one before, surely if you acquired nationality through residency after 5 years living there that is enough? Or is it a case of stopping lads "country hopping"?!

[Charlie Darwin]

Sorry to have to go back on-topic here, but... :p

(And it's nothing to do with northern players either. *Awaits a collective sigh of relief.*)

I meant to enquire about this a while back when I first came across a guy playing for Portsmouth's academy called Chinedu Vine. I'd happened to do a player search on Football Manager 2011 for players of Irish nationality and this youngster of Nigerian birth showed up. Quite a handy resource, it is, although not completely infallible. There's no mention of the likes of Richard Stearman or Kyle Naughton being eligible even though it appears they are in real life.

Anyway, dragging myself away from Football Manager, I did a bit of research on the lad to get his story. Vine's parents moved to Ireland when he was a toddler. He went on to play for Home Farm at under-15 level before Portsmouth, who have a partnership with Home Farm, snapped him last year.

There's not much on him online really but there's a bit about the Portsmouth academy here where he features briefly in a few clips posing for club scholarship photos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJrz8inD6MM

He was eligible to play for Ireland according to the game but would he be eligible to play for us in real life given that his citizenship - he holds an Irish passport, according to reports - would have been dependent on residence, all his roots are Nigerian and he hasn't lived in Ireland for five years after reaching the age of 18 given that he only turned 17 last Thursday, as it would happen? I'm guessing he wouldn't be.
It depends on whether he or (more specifically) his parents have citizenship. If they've been here for 10+ years, my guess is that they do so he should be eligible. Nedum Onuoha is in a similar situation with England.

[tetsujin1979]

his nationality is listed as Irish on wikipedia (I know, I know): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portsmouth_F.C._Reserves_and_Academy
Anyone know anything about the other two listed players - Carl Walshe and Matthew Gledhill?

[Charlie Darwin]

Walshe is also from Home Farm - I remember reading a few articles when they first went over as it was the start of a relationship with the English club a la Home Farm Everton. Then things went kaput but apparently Home Farm are sticking with them.

Gledhill's previous listed club is Corinthians - a UCC-linked team it appears.

[BonnieShels]

Better the Roscommonist takeover than a Northern one in these eligibility threads!

It's northern. ;)

[DannyInvincible]

Don't what your day job is, but you should working for The FAI...

Not sure whether to receive that as a compliment or an expression of bewilderment. ;)


DI i take it you're from Derry, there is another well known poster on here who has a mother from North Roscommon also from Derry, he also posts quite long detailed posts. I reckon there must be a connection somewhere.

From there or thereabouts. I'm actually Letterkenny-born to a Roscommon mother and a Tyrone father but grew up a few minutes outside of Derry and also attended St. Columb's College in the city, so whatever that makes me. Derry seems a convenient description when asked where I'm from as that's where I tend to be most of the time when I'm home. While I'm at it, I'm not a qualified lawyer either, as has been suspected, nor do I work for the FAI, ha. (If they had a job going though...) I did study law for a few years in Dublin but decided not to pursue it as a career path, if you will, although I think my interest in the statutes really stems from an interest in the interpretation of language, word-play and other literary techniques and devices, obviously mixed with an uncompromising view that northern-born Irish nationals who seek to represent Ireland internationally be acknowledged as just as Irish as those born south of the border, of course. ;) At present, I'm living in Manchester trying to do something totally different in the world of visual arts. So, a brief bio there for anyone who could care less.

I'm not sure who you're referring to though. I know my brother has an account on here and reads through the various sub-forums fairly regularly, but he posts rarely enough, as far as I know anyway. Who's this other fellow you speak of? Maybe a long-lost cousin or something my mother didn't tell us about...


Please explain what this over the years of 18 thing means, ive not heard that one before, surely if you acquired nationality through residency after 5 years living there that is enough? Or is it a case of stopping lads "country hopping"?!

Here are the FIFA statutes (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/01/29/85/71/fifastatuten2010_e.pdf) I think particularly relevant:


15) Principle
1. Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that country.

...

17) Acquisition of a new nationality
Any Player who refers to art. 15 par. 1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art. 15 par. 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfi ls one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.


It depends on whether he or (more specifically) his parents have citizenship. If they've been here for 10+ years, my guess is that they do so he should be eligible. Nedum Onuoha is in a similar situation with England.

Vine has an Irish passport, according to the material I've found on him online anyway, so, yes, he appears to be an Irish citizen alright. He was born in Nigeria, just as his parents were, and moved to Ireland with them, so I'm assuming they were granted citizenship at the same time as he was. I don't know what age he was when he arrived here, but anything I've read says he was a toddler, so presumably it was before the ago of two or three. Having left for Portsmouth at the age of 15/16, he seems to indeed have been resident in Ireland for ten years. Under which rule would he be eligible to play for us though, given that his citizenship was clearly dependent on residency? Similarly, I understand that Onouha has represented England at under-21 level but have absolutely no idea how he might qualify for them either.

[Predator]

In response to the revelation that Shane Ferguson has indeed been in contact with an FAI representative, a poster on a certain forum reckons that they [the IFA, fans etc.] need a new approach. I know that these guys feel strongly about the issue, but some of the things they come out with are utterly risible.


The way we approach this issue has to change. The decision is made, players from NI can represent the ROI, there is nothing we can do about this. This has to become, on one level, a moral issue about players, in effect, stealing caps from those that want them. It needs to be stressed again and again that these people DID choose to play for Northern Ireland at any number of levels, no-one forced them, they showed up of their own freewill and did so knowing what anthem was going to be played and what flag flown.

In addition, the IFA has to take some action. I sometimes get the impression that there are those in the IFA who view the NI team as an inconvenience and are simply waiting for the day that we are forced into an all-island team.

Of course, FFA must continue and the IFA must continue to pick players solely on merit, but all call-ups for all levels must include a note that accepting the call-up means that they are explicitly committing themselves to NI. Anyone not willing to make this public and signed commitment should not be picked until they are prepared to do so. If someone wants to bide their time, that is their perogative, but it should also be made clear that any acceptance of a call-up from any other international association from- and this is crucial- a NI born player will, regardless of FIFA rules, mean that they will not be selected for NI at any level again. We are not obliged to pick people who qualify for us, were born in NI and think that they can chop and change their allegience. If we lose a couple of players this way, so be it, there is more at stake. Anyone who switches should be required to return their caps and shirts. Perhaps we should appeal to players' self-interest and draw up a database of current and former ROI players in the top two flights of English football (the top division in Scotland). There will be lots of them, but most will have won only a handful of caps, yet still play at a high level (Paddy Kenny and Rory Delap, spring to mind, and would certainly still be playing for us).

We also, unfortunately, need a public statement from the FAI that they will not select anyone who has played for NI at u19, u21 or full international level, regardless of their technical eligibility for the ROI. The IFA should publicly demand a meeting with the FAI on this issue, and in the name of continued cross-border co-operation, ask for this. If it is not forthcoming, then the IFA has to ask very loudly "Why not?" after all, it would not be conceding the principle that NI born players can play for the ROI team, merely that the FAI do not select those that have already freely and willingly represented us. At this point, all ties should be broken and the FAI treated just like any other foreign association. The IFA can take the moral high-ground on this issue if it chooses, and, again, it should be stressed that these players were happy enough to represent NI at various youth levels, but if the FAI (and it is a big "IF") has any sense of decency it should sign up to this. (Perhaps it should be pointed out to them that if the next Robbie Keane signs apprenticeship forms with an English club and lives there for a couple of years he is eligible for England. Anyway, I digress.)

While the FAI's approach may not be deliberately sectarian (although, regardless of intention, the reality is that it is, and particularly provocative a matter of weeks ahead of a meeting between the two teams) or deliberately designed to destroy the NI team, it is becoming increasingly difficult to see that if this is not at least the subtext to their efforts, it also has an impact in NI beyond football as it further divides a society still riven by sectarianism.

We will, however, survive, but whether we can survive as we have always existed as a cross-community team which is entirely representative of the people of Northern Ireland remains to be seen.

[tetsujin1979]

maybe I'm missing something here, but what is the point of a database of Republic players from the top divisions?

[Closed Account]

maybe I'm missing something here, but what is the point of a database of Republic players from the top divisions?
Is he saying that if prospective NI internationals look at the number of players who are eligible for ROI(and only managed a couple of caps), they will realise that they will have a better chance of an international career with NI?

Who knows, you might get the IFA to sponsor your database.....:rolleyes:

[SwanVsDalton]

While the FAI's approach may not be deliberately sectarian (although, regardless of intention, the reality is that it is, and particularly provocative a matter of weeks ahead of a meeting between the two teams) or deliberately designed to destroy the NI team, it is becoming increasingly difficult to see that if this is not at least the subtext to their efforts, it also has an impact in NI beyond football as it further divides a society still riven by sectarianism.

We will, however, survive, but whether we can survive as we have always existed as a cross-community team which is entirely representative of the people of Northern Ireland remains to be seen.

Out of all the misinformation, nonsense and downright pig-headed ignorance peddled around this issue, the idea of the FAI destroying the all-inclusive Norn Iron dream with their evil sectarian selection policy is by a country mile the most infuriating. It's also the kind of attitude which is far more damaging to an all-inclusive NI team than anything the FAI could do.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Fair point, but it's all down to the 'P' word.
And I am of course, not making any wider cultural reference.

[Closed Account]

All call-ups for all levels must include a note that accepting the call-up means that they are explicitly committing themselves to France. Anyone not willing to make this public and signed commitment should not be picked until they are prepared to do so. If someone wants to bide their time, that is their perogative, but it should also be made clear that any acceptance of a call-up from any other international association from- and this is crucial- a France born player will, regardless of FIFA rules, mean that they will not be selected for France at any level again.
Somehow I don't think it'd go down to well.

[DannyInvincible]

In response to the revelation that Shane Ferguson has indeed been in contact with an FAI representative, a poster on a certain forum reckons that they [the IFA, fans etc.] need a new approach. I know that these guys feel strongly about the issue, but some of the things they come out with are utterly risible.

Self-awareness sorely lacking, clearly. I mean, surely the bright spark who devised this detailed and cunning ploy realises that it almost reads like an elaborate kidnap plot.

Generally, I don't really take much issue with the first three paragraphs as the IFA can be as internally hypocritical as they wish for all I care. Bar these bits:


It needs to be stressed again and again that these people DID choose to play for Northern Ireland at any number of levels, no-one forced them, they showed up of their own freewill and did so knowing what anthem was going to be played and what flag flown.

They're also free to choose to play Ireland. No-one's forcing, kidnapping or poaching them. Certainly not the FAI. If anyone has tried to force anything, it was the IFA in trying to limit the choice of these individuals by dragging Daniel Kearns off to CAS. There are a number of reasons as to why a nationalist player might end up playing under the Ulster Banner. It doesn't necessarily have to be seen as contradictory nor does it strike a blow to the notion that they still identify as Irish and would rather play with Ireland first and foremost. For example, I recall Shane Duffy's father stating on the UTV news around the time of Duffy's switch something to the effect that, being from Derry, naturally, Duffy had grown up within the northern footballing system where things snow-balled as figures in authority began to fast-track him through the ranks from an early age, guilting him over potentially letting his team-mates down any time he expressed his desire to play for Ireland. His dream was always still to play for Ireland, even when he was standing awkwardly with head down to 'God Save the Queen' before NI games, would you believe? Obviously, for some others, self-interest will precede national allegiance, but that's their own business.


In addition, the IFA has to take some action. I sometimes get the impression that there are those in the IFA who view the NI team as an inconvenience and are simply waiting for the day that we are forced into an all-island team.

Everyone's up against them. Even themselves. :rolleyes:

That loyalty scheme is a nice idea, mind. It's a business model that works for Tesco and Sainsbury's, isn't it? In seriousness though, it's debatable as to whether such would do them a huge deal of good. Might worsen things, if anything, as it all comes across as a bit stringent and draconian. Anyhow, if they do manage to successfully convince young nationalists that playing for NI is in their best interests, then I'm not going to object to a lad's decision, whatever his reasons may happen to be.

Paragraph four is where things really lapse into farce though.


We also, unfortunately, need a public statement from the FAI that they will not select anyone who has played for NI at u19, u21 or full international level, regardless of their technical eligibility for the ROI.

And he demands this in the name of continued cross-border co-operation? This guy has quite a sense of humour. Things had been very co-operative, fine and dandy until the IFA took it upon themselves to breach that concord (http://foot.ie/threads/132063-Player-eligibility-row?p=1380152&viewfull=1#post1380152) with their CAS appeal. This post (http://foot.ie/threads/132063-Player-eligibility-row?p=1380072#post1380072) of co. down green's from last year is also enlightening. Out of interest, I wonder what the FAI would get in return for shutting out legitimate and eligible volunteers? Decency points? As co. down green also pointed out recently, nationalist taxpayer's money funds the IFA as well.


Perhaps it should be pointed out to them that if the next Robbie Keane signs apprenticeship forms with an English club and lives there for a couple of years he is eligible for England.

:confused: A member of OWC suggesting that the FAI mightn't be up to speed with the eligibility rules? Funny.

Anyhow, the chances of such a scenario occurring would be remote given we'd most likely already have capped such a talent, if even Robbie Keane II would wish to line out for England in the first place. If this hypothetical player did wish to hold out for England, it would be a peculiar case indeed and might elicit disappointment, but he'd be entirely within his rights to do so.


While the FAI's approach may not be deliberately sectarian (although, regardless of intention, the reality is that it is, and particularly provocative a matter of weeks ahead of a meeting between the two teams) or deliberately designed to destroy the NI team, it is becoming increasingly difficult to see that if this is not at least the subtext to their efforts, it also has an impact in NI beyond football as it further divides a society still riven by sectarianism.

Well, it's neither deliberately sectarian nor sectarian in effect in that the FAI are simply accommodating the wish of northern-born players good enough to play for Ireland to realise their ambition. For all the FAI cares, they might as well be Catholic, Protestant or even dissenter. If players from a unionist background wished to embrace the spirit of cross-border co-operation and all that, sure why not they just be done with it and declare for Ireland too? :rolleyes: Nothing the FAI is doing is particularly provocative because of timing either. It shouldn't be seen in a provocative light besides, but the FAI have been calling northern-born Irish nationals into our various teams for a decade and a half. Ferguson is just another in a long line of northern-born Irish nationals. And the FAI aren't to blame for social division. If some people happen to be part of a society but are lukewarm to the notion of partaking in that society's cultural escapades, that's not the fault of the FAI. Telling an Irishman he ought to be denied the right to play for his country and have his choice limited to lining out for a team that is essentially a British entity is what's divisive, provocative and vindictive.

[DannyInvincible]

I just had a look through that hysterical thread on OWC and this gem really stood out as a particular highlight:


Wait until Shay Given (Derry born (ok just adding because I need a keeper in my side :D)), Shane Ferguson (Derry born), Marc Wilson (Aghagallon born), Paul George (Co. Down born), Darron Gibson (Derry born), Daniel Kearns (Belfast born), Adam Barton (Blackburn born :rolleyes:) are all playing against Northern Ireland next month. OK the chances of Kearns playing are slim but the FAI selecting him just to 'rub it in' to the North is quite high!

I'd be hard-pressed to know where to start on that.

[geysir]

That loyalty scheme is a nice idea, mind. It's a business model that works for Tesco and Sainsbury's, isn't it? In seriousness though, it's debatable as to whether such would do them a huge deal of good. Might worsen things, if anything, as it all comes across as a bit stringent and draconian.

I don't know Danny, that loyalty scheme is not such a stretch, is it?

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/images/news/LoyaltyCard.JPG

[DannyInvincible]

Trying to get a bit more info on Chinedu Vine, I happened to stumble across this somewhat different video, for want of a better description, on the lad:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wklbOmonr80&feature=share

It's a fairly amateur production but it features some camcorder footage of him playing and showcasing his various medals and things to an odd mix of epic-cinematic, fervently upbeat and particularly solemn music with dubbed commentary from John Champion, Andy Townsend and Jim Beglin in the background. He also speaks very briefly about experiences of his that have been documented in the local media between the action footage and, of obvious and vital importance, appears aged about eight collecting an award at a kid's soccer school wearing what must have been an Ireland World Cup 2002 supporters T-shirt at 3:21. ;)

[tetsujin1979]

odd one this (also not sure where to post it, so feel free to move/delete)
Northern Ireland's Daniel Devine made his first start for Preston on Saturday against Ipswich. He was most recently included in their U21 squad last February against Wales: http://www.irishfa.com/news/item/6265/u21-boys-to-take-on-wales/
(side note Shane Ferguson was in the same squad)
But he was also included in an U19 Republic of Ireland training squad in 2010: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100694:mccaffrey-unveils-u19-squad-for-training-camp&catid=4:under-19&Itemid=12
He didn't make the final squad for the U19 qualifiers in the Ukraine: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100965:u19-squad-named-for-uefa-elite-qualifiers&catid=4:under-19&Itemid=12
and as far as I can tell, hasn't represented the Republic at any level since then
Is there anymore information on this?

[BonnieShels]

Good spot. It looks like he's 'ours'! :)

[DannyInvincible]

If I remember correctly, Devine played for NI at some level prior to announcing he wanted to declare for us; that being around the same time Daniel Kearns announced he wanted to switch (I think, although I'm open to correction and may have him confused with someone else).

Still, though, don't the IFA realise that repoaching players is twice as bad?!

[DannyInvincible]

I can find that he's played 6 minutes of a competitive European Under-19 Championship qualifying game for NI against Switzerland at least: http://www.uefa.com/under19/teams/player=250024166/index.html

That was in October of 2010.

Oddly, this has his place of birth down as Dublin, but surely it can't be right: http://www.worldfootball.net/spieler_profil/daniel-devine/

Then, there appears to be another Daniel Devine of Aston Villa and formerly of Crumlin United who is about half a year younger, which is probably the source of some confusion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Villa_F.C._Reserves_and_Academy#Current_Acad emy_squad

[ifk101]

Place of birth is Belfast according to wikipedia which would be consisted with the clubs he played youth football with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Devine_%28footballer%29

[tetsujin1979]

It does appear that there are two Daniel Devine's (queue the terrace chants "there's only two Dan Devine's" and "we all dream of a team of Dan Devine's")
Preston's Daniel Devine is from Belfast according to his club profile: http://www.pnefc.net/page/YouthsProfiles/0,,10362~1730302,00.html
Aston Villa's Daniel Devine is from Dublin: http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/ReservesProfile/0,,10265~2091238,00.html
He was recently named in the U19 squad to play Croatia in February: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=101508:u19-squad-for-croatia-double-header-named&catid=4:under-19&Itemid=12
But he didn't appear in either game
Most recent report of him I can find on Villa's site is from the first leg of the FA Youth Cup Semi Final against Sheffield United, he was sent off late on for an off the ball incident: http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2317643,00.html

If anyone is an Aston Villa tv subscriber, there's an interview with him here: http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/TV/InterviewsDetail/0,,10265~2306814,00.html

[SwanVsDalton]

Miles off topic but the Villa Devine is quite highly regarded - thought to be a first-teamer in the making and been a lynch-pin of successful Youth squads.

[Predator]

Still, though, don't the IFA realise that repoaching players is twice as bad?!Shane Duffy was in one of Sean McCaffrey's training camps 3 or 4 years back. Afterwards, having not received a call up he remained with the IFA for a while before switching - so Devine is not lost yet!

However, on the notion of poaching and repoaching, since the player could not have possibly made his own mind up, it must have been the IFA with their 'dirty tongue in his ear' (honestly, these terms are ridiculous) who persuaded him to go back - morally suspect crowd that they are!

[ArdeeBhoy]

all call-ups for all levels must include a note that accepting the call-up means that they are explicitly committing themselves to NI. Anyone not willing to make this public and signed commitment should not be picked until they are prepared to do so. If someone wants to bide their time, that is their perogative, but it should also be made clear that any acceptance of a call-up from any other international association from- and this is crucial- a NI born player will, regardless of FIFA rules, mean that they will not be selected for NI at any level again. We are not obliged to pick people who qualify for us, were born in NI and think that they can chop and change their allegience.

DI, Predator etc,
Would such a 'signed declaration', be legal, in the context of the CAS ruling?? As in if it wasn't a competitive game, would this actually be 'worth' anything??


We also, unfortunately, need a public statement from the FAI that they will not select anyone who has played for NI at u19, u21 or full international level, regardless of their technical eligibility for the ROI. The IFA should publicly demand a meeting with the FAI on this issue, and in the name of continued cross-border co-operation, ask for this. If it is not forthcoming, then the IFA has to ask very loudly "Why not?" after all, it would not be conceding the principle that NI born players can play for the ROI team, merely that the FAI do not select those that have already freely and willingly represented us. At this point, all ties should be broken and the FAI treated just like any other foreign association. The IFA can take the moral high-ground on this issue if it chooses, and, again, it should be stressed that these players were happy enough to represent NI at various youth levels, but if the FAI (and it is a big "IF") has any sense of decency it should sign up to this

Again, this is contrary to the CAS Ruling? If you read certain posters on here, they are very emphatic that we are completely 'foreign', have no eligibility to 'merge' etc.
So the FAI should ignore this bleating. If the IFA so desperately want these players, cap them in a competitive game.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think the purpose proposed was that if a player commits to NI and then decides to declare for the Republic, he'd do so knowing that the IFA wouldn't select him again.

[Not Brazil]

If the IFA so desperately want these players, cap them in a competitive game.

Not quite as simple as that AB.

I'm a supporter of fast tracking FAI targets into the Northern Ireland Senior squad for competitive matches* - this is in full knowledge that it makes the player declare his hand, so to speak.

The player, of course, does not have to accept the invitation to the Senior squad.

*On the proviso that the player is good enough to make the step.

[ifk101]

How does the IFA determine if a player is a "FAI target"?

[Not Brazil]

How does the IFA determine if a player is a "FAI target"?

If, for example, they are aware the FAI are sniffing around.

Some good clues to be found on here from time to time.:D

Ferguson is an example - but we missed a trick there. Hopefully lesson learnt for next time.

[ifk101]

If, for example, they are aware the FAI are sniffing around.

But how would they become aware?


Ferguson is an example - but we missed a trick there. Hopefully lesson learnt for next time.

He hasn't switched - or given any public indication of his desire to do so.

[Not Brazil]

But how would they become aware?

He hasn't switched - or given any public indication of his desire to do so.

It's a small place.

I know he hasn't.

We do know the FAI are sniffing - He should have been called up by the IFA for the recent qualifiers. Unfortunately, in not doing so, I think the IFA missed a trick.

The next competitive game for Northern Ireland will come to late, I fear, for the IFA to put Ferguson's commitment to the test.

But - other opportunities will arise, and hopefully the lesson learnt.

[geysir]

But how would they become aware?
They phone Don Givens.

[ifk101]

Don would give them a straight answer, that's for sure.

[DannyInvincible]

DI, Predator etc,
Would such a 'signed declaration', be legal, in the context of the CAS ruling?? As in if it wasn't a competitive game, would this actually be 'worth' anything??

I'm not sure what the legality of such a declaration or an "agreement" with an individual would be under FIFA's rules. Whilst a signed legal document might be enforceable under the law of the state on a contractual basis, I'd be pretty certain that FIFA would sanction the IFA over such a move. I'm not sure what exact rule might apply in such an instance and don't really have time to go searching through the statutes right now for something that mightn't be there, but I can't imagine FIFA would look upon it favourably, as, essentially, it would amount to an attempt to transcend or subvert their rules, whichever way one wants to view it. Maybe it would fall under that "governmental interference" sphere to which FIFA staunchly object? Either way, it's unrealistic. If the declaration had a contractual standing, I'm pretty sure FIFA would clamp down on it immediately, whereas, if it was a mere declaration with some unofficial but no contractual standing, there'd be no legal obligation on the player to adhere to it. Once signed, they could always switch after receiving a cap. Devious it may be, but who would have the power to stop them?

In saying that, if the IFA were to pursue an "unofficial policy" of refusing to select players who had wavered or made a switch only to declare an interest in returning to the IFA's fold, I'd imagine they'd be perfectly within their rights to not select such a player, with or without some written agreement. There's no obligation on any association to select certain players, unless FIFA were to enforce some rather ambiguous and subjective rule in relation to selecting the strongest team available, like the one under which the Premier League punished Wolves/Mick McCarthy when he rested a few "first-teamers" for a game against Manchester United they were likely to lose anyway so they'd be in better shape for an approaching relegation battle. Weren't Blackpool punished for similar reasons this season? It's very dodgy territory though - I think the Premier League were way out of order there, all things considered - and would be virtually impossible to enforce in international football where the concept of a regular seasonal or registered team doesn't come into play beyond a once-off selection for each international. And what use would that be anyway if the unwelcome players concerned weren't included in the squad selection anyway?

[DannyInvincible]

How does the IFA determine if a player is a "FAI target"?

That's very subversive thinking there, but I like it. ;)

[DannyInvincible]

I also meant to add that I don't think FIFA are obliged to adhere to CAS rulings, but they generally tend to as they'd appear less accountable that way than they already do. I'm open to correction on that though, but I am aware that the Gibralter Football Association, for example, applied for UEFA membership and had it refused after the Spanish association kicked up a fuss and threatened to boycott competition. This was in spite of Gibralter taking their case to CAS who ruled that they did in fact have valid grounds for UEFA membership and satisfied FIFA's criteria for confederation membership. More about it on Wiki here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_official_football_team#Application_for_m embership_of_FIFA_and_UEFA).


On August 25, 2006, it was proposed that Gibraltar will become a provisional member of UEFA. However, a decision on granting this was postponed in October 2006. The decision was made on December 8, 2006 that Gibraltar will be made provisional members of UEFA: FIFA had announced two days earlier that their executive committee had "ruled that Gibraltar does not meet the statutory requirements to become a FIFA member", despite the fact that the Court of Arbitration in Sport had already ruled to the contrary.

On January 26, 2007 Gibraltar membership had been rejected by the UEFA Board with only 3 out of 52 votes supporting Gibraltar's claim. Spain was the strongest opponent to Gibraltar joining UEFA, even threatening to boycott any competition in which the Gibraltar national team would compete.

The issue has again been referred back to the Court of Arbitration for Sport for a ruling.

[DannyInvincible]

It would appear then that FIFA will follow CAS rulings, unless one of the big boys object. If the IFA had the stature of the FA or FFF, FIFA might be more sympathetic to their cause - money talks and all that - although it wouldn't mean that the CAS ruling was incorrect, nor would it mean that it would be fair to disallow certain Irish nationals by birth the right to represent their country. It would merely be indicative of FIFA's rather corruptible nature.

[Predator]

I'm a supporter of fast tracking FAI targets into the Northern Ireland Senior squad for competitive matches* - this is in full knowledge that it makes the player declare his hand, so to speak.A form of positive discrimination? Are the IFA going to open up the FAI's 'Big Book of Catholic names' in order to ween out the dual nationals?

[BonnieShels]

That's very interesting re Gibraltar. I used to take a great interest in smaller non-FIFA nations and regions however I haven't in a while.
I wonder if the Spanish objection to their status is from the FEF or actually (which I suspect) from the Spanish government.
Seems like "political interference" to me.

[Not Brazil]

A form of positive discrimination? Are the IFA going to open up the FAI's 'Big Book of Catholic names' in order to ween out the dual nationals?

It's not discriminating in any way.

I haven't a notion what your talking about with the "Big Book of Catholic names" comment.

[DannyInvincible]

I wonder if the Spanish objection to their status is from the FEF or actually (which I suspect) from the Spanish government.
Seems like "political interference" to me.

I suppose emotional influence, or however you'd put it, as opposed to de jure influence may have been at play, but obviously it's very difficult to prove something if it's not in writing. Seeing FIFA threaten the Spanish federation with sanction or expulsion would indeed be interesting drama considering Spain are the current World Cup and European champions.

[BonnieShels]

Ne'er mind their current status as jammy wc winners. Non-members haven't a hope really.

[Predator]

It's not discriminating in any way.How is it not? It is a process of "flushing out", as you say, "waverers" - distinguised by their dual nationality and hearsay. Why don't you just let players get on with it? If they want to change they will do so in their own time - suspected individuals shouldn't be singled out for special treatment.

The FFF had a similar incident just recently where some proposed a 'quota' on dual nationals (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0502/1224295868481.html).


I haven't a notion what your talking about with the "Big Book of Catholic names" comment.I'm poking fun at the OWC accusations of the FAI being sectarian. I recall one poster suggesting that the 'men in the FAI jackets' had a child-catching kit, with a big net and book of Catholic sounding names.
In seriousness, how do you know who is an FAI target and who is not? Or who may be in two minds about the FAI and the IFA?

[Charlie Darwin]

That's very interesting re Gibraltar. I used to take a great interest in smaller non-FIFA nations and regions however I haven't in a while.
I wonder if the Spanish objection to their status is from the FEF or actually (which I suspect) from the Spanish government.
Seems like "political interference" to me.



Probably both, but it's not as if the FEF would need any encouragement to complain. Granting Gibraltar association status would sent the Catalans and the Basques into fits. Possibly the Valencians too.

[Not Brazil]

How is it not? It is a process of "flushing out", as you say, "waverers" - distinguised by their dual nationality and hearsay. Why don't you just let players get on with it? If they want to change they will do so in their own time - suspected individuals shouldn't be singled out for special treatment.


What????

We are told, constantly, that all players eligible are welcome to the ranks of the FAI.

All Northern Ireland players are Dual Nationals.

I give you the example of Shane Ferguson.

Is he good enough for the Northern Ireland senior squad? Absolutely.

Are the FAI sniffing? Yes Sir.

Should the IFA have selected him for the recent senior qualifiers squad? Yes.

Should that be a lesson? It should be - but it's the IFA we're talking about here.

Where is the problem with this?

[Not Brazil]

I'm poking fun at the OWC accusations of the FAI being sectarian. I recall one poster suggesting that the 'men in the FAI jackets' had a child-catching kit, with a big net and book of Catholic sounding names.
In seriousness, how do you know who is an FAI target and who is not?

Oh right - fair enough. I remember poking fun on here at the knob who told us that David Healy was receiving sectarian abuse from Northern Ireland fans, because he was a "Catholic". (Healy being a "Catholic" name....apparently!)

With regards to FAI targets - The evidence produced so far by the FAI indicates criteria of a player being from a "nationalist background".:D

[DannyInvincible]

What evidence? Is there any evidence that the FAI target particular players? I remember EG claimed something with regard to Chris Baird a long time ago - not even sure if there was a source cited - but other than that...

[Charlie Darwin]

It would be interesting to see what the FAI would do should a young Protestant sensation come through the NI ranks. I suppose Jonny Evans was the last one?

[DannyInvincible]

And I think what Predator is getting at is the idea that if the IFA are to begin attempting to pre-empt the switching of players to the FAI that they might fear due to socio-cultural background and demographic reality, they could very easily fall victim to the same accusations the FAI do from NI fans when they're being lambasted for apparently targeting young nationalist footballers on a sectarian basis.