Eligibility Rules, Okay

[The Fly]

As a teacher, my ongoing understanding of young people is that many can't make life decisions until they are often in their mid 20s. This must be respected and should not involve undue pressure.

Just to humour you, at the age of 16 you are allowed to do the following:

Get married or register a civil partnership with consent
Drive a moped or invalid carriage
You can consent to sexual activity with others aged 16 and over
Drink wine/beer with a meal if accompanied by someone over 18
Leave school on the official school leaving date
Get a National Insurance number
Join a trade union
Work full-time if you have left school
Be paid national minimum wage for 16/17 year olds
Join the Armed Forces with parental consent
Change name by deed poll
Leave home with parental consent
In certain circumstances you must pay for prescriptions, dental treatment and eye tests
Choose a GP
Consent to medical treatment
Buy premium bonds
Pilot a glider
Buy a lottery ticket
Register as a blood donor, but you won't be called to give blood until you're 17
Apply for a passport without parental consent

The net widens at 17:

Drive most vehicles and pilot a helicopter or plane
No longer be subject to a care order
Become a blood donor
Be interviewed by the Police without an adult present.

The magic milestone of 18 bestows the following privileges:

The right to vote
Sue or be sued
Open a bank account in your own name
Perform professionally abroad
Serve on a jury
Get a tattoo
Buy cigarettes and tobacco
Buy and drink alcohol in a bar
See an 18 certificate film at the cinema
Buy fireworks
Leave home
Marry or register a civil partnership
Make a Will
Leave your body for medical study if you die
Carry an organ donor card
You cannot be made a ward of the court
Own land, buy a house or flat & apply for a mortgage
If you are adopted, you can apply to see a copy of your original birth certificate
Ride a motorbike above 125cc with a licence
Drive lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer up to 750kg (with the appropriate licence)

Finally, at 21 you are permitted to:

Be elected as a Member of Parliament, local councillor or a mayor
Adopt a child
Hold an airline transport pilot's licence for an aeroplane, helicopter and gyroplane
Apply for a provisional licence to drive a large passenger vehicle or heavy goods vehicle
Supervise a learner driver (providing you have held a full licence for the same type of vehicle for at least three years)


I wonder where the choice of national football team comes in???

[DannyInvincible]

On the issue of an agreement, I'm not sure the idea that NB has suggested is much of a solution. I understand that a few players would decide to represent ROI, and they would make that declaration a year or 3 earlier than they otherwise would have, thus freeing up space for other players.
But when asked, players could just say they don't know who they truly want to represent at senior level, and what are the IFA going to do? Exclude anybody who doesn't say they want to represent NI? That's not very likely.

Agree completely regarding potential for uncertainty/dishonesty.


Likewise, I don't think that FIFA are going to entertain any notions of a rule change in the IFA's favour.

Agreed.


In my opinion, the IFA's best bet is to try and come to some agreement (gentleman's agreement?? :cool:) with the FAI regarding a point after which the FAI would agree not to call up any player who had previously played at underage level with NI. This point could be simply based on age, or it could be agreed that if a player had been capped at a certain underage level (U-19 or U-21, for example), the FAI would agree not to call him up in the future.


To the best of my knowledge, the oldest player yet to have switched between the two associations is Alex Bruce who was 26 when talk first arose of his intentions to switch from the FAI to the IFA. Anyway, some form of internal agreement between the two associations without FIFA approval would amount to an infringement on the right of players not party to such an agreement to switch association once. Unless it was an unwritten "rule", I suppose, but how do you enforce that?


The question is whether the FAI, who clearly have all the cards in their favour at the moment, would be willing to come to any such agreement. They have already done so once, regarding not making the first move in contacting a player.

I'm not so sure it's as simple as saying the FAI have all the cards in their favour. The rules apply universally and the IFA benefit from article 8 (Lee Camp and Oliver Norwood, for example) in the same way it could be said that the FAI suffer from it (Alex Bruce, Johnny Gorman, Ryan Brobbel, Shane Lowry and Sean McGinty/Michael Keane(?), for example).


What's in it for the FAI? Are they willing to do this simply for the sake of harmony with a close neighbour? To stop the stream of mainly seriously ill-informed criticism coming their way from media (and even politicians) in NI?

The relationship between the IFA and FAI is currently one of harmony, as far as I'm aware. The official/public IFA line in relation to player eligibility is one of acceptance of players' right to switch - they're more than happy to take advantage of it themselves - and they acknowledge that the ball is in their court with regard to making playing for their sides an attractive option for more players from a nationalist background.


If the issue of not making first contact was removed, and the FAI were free to make first contact with players with a view to joining ROI underage squads, both sides would be able to make their case to the player. Would the FAI be more likely to agree not to call up any player who still wanted to represent NI (at the agreed underage level) after the FAI had made efforts to bring him into ROI underage squads?

Not so sure this issue remains relevant considering the IFA took Daniel Kearns, the FAI and FIFA to CAS with the aim of removing players' right to switch. That would amount to a serious breach of any prior agreement in my book.

Anyway, if a player still wanted to represent NI rather than the FAI after the FAI had discussions with him, it's not as if the FAI could compel him to join one of our squads.

[DannyInvincible]

They're all coming out of the woodwork today.

'One soccer team for all Ireland is the way forward – Pat Sheehan': http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/22512?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


Sinn Féin MLA Pat Sheehan has stated that the DUP's Nigel Dodds needs to accept that soccer players in the North have a fundamental right to choose to play for either soccer team in Ireland at international level and that those who choose not to play for one or the other should not be disadvantaged.

The FIFA Court of Arbitration for Sport has already ruled that players from the North have the right to represent either of the teams on the island of Ireland.

Pat Sheehan said:

“This debate has been ruled on by FIFA's Executive Committee who very clearly indicated that soccer players in the north can choose to play for either international team on the island.

“Nigel Dodds cannot force people to play for one team or another just as he cannot force people to choose whether they choose to identify themselves as Irish or British.He would be better calling for talks between the two governing soccer bodies on the island in the hope of having one team represent Ireland.

“It’s a pity that soccer does not learn from other sports when one team represents Ireland in the likes of rugby, cricket and other sports. Having one team from Ireland has witnessed the entire county getting behind them with no mention of divisions North, South, East or West.”

[osarusan]

Anyway, some form of internal agreement between the two associations without FIFA approval would amount to an infringement on the right of players not party to such an agreement to switch association once. Unless it was an unwritten "rule", I suppose, but how do you enforce that?

It wouldn't infringe on their right to switch. They just wouldn't get called up. It would, most likely, have an effect on their desire to switch.





Anyway, if a player still wanted to represent NI rather than the FAI after the FAI had discussions with him, it's not as if the FAI could compel him to join one of our squads.
I never said they could?

My point is, along the lines NB suggested, that allowing players exposure to both the IFA and FAI underage set-ups would allow them to make a more informed choice, maybe even earlier in their career than otherwise. That would be good for both associations. Currently, that doesn't happen as the FAI have to wait to be contacted.

From the IFA's persprective, it would be a lot harder for a player to claim it was their boyhood dream to represent ROI at senior level after representing NI at underage level if they'd had the option to represent ROI at underage level.

[DannyInvincible]

It wouldn't infringe on their right to switch. They just wouldn't get called up. It would, most likely, have an effect on their desire to switch.

Am I correct in interpreting that as meaning the "rule" would be an unwritten one? How would such then be enforced? By mere good will?


I struggle to think of any player who had a bright ROI career in fornt of him but switched to NI. In that sense, the FAI hold the cards.

Hmm, who's to say? Is the principle any different? Might Alex Bruce not have been a potential option for us in the future? I'm not saying he's a world-beater but central defence is an area where we don't have fantastic strength in depth at the minute. Who knows how the likes of Johnny Gorman might develop? And then there's Lee Camp; the position of goalkeeper has long been a problem area for England. Who's to say with any certainty that, in the event of a future goalkeeping crisis, the FA wouldn't have called upon Camp as an option? Sean McGinty has been touted as a hot prospect but there's talk that he's considering a switch from the FAI to the FA. As I said, the rules apply universally, which is the most optimal thing a code of rules can do; everyone benefits or suffers to some degree and it's impossible to try and objectively quantify the degrees to which respective associations are affected.


I never said they could?

This bit confused me:


"Would the FAI be more likely to agree not to call up any player who still wanted to represent NI (at the agreed underage level) after the FAI had made efforts to bring him into ROI underage squads?"

If a player wanted to play for the IFA rather than the FAI, there'd be nothing the FAI could do to force him to play for them, so there'd be no need for the FAI to agree not to call such a player up. Or am I still misunderstanding you? :confused:


My point is, along the lines NB suggested, that allowing players exposure to both the IFA and FAI underage set-ups would allow them to make a more informed choice, maybe even earlier in their career than otherwise. That would be good for both associations. Currently, that doesn't happen as the FAI have to wait to be contacted.

Regarding your latter point, Noel King suggested otherwise the other day. He asserted that it was well within his realm of rights to approach players eligible to play for the FAI. But I do agree with what you say otherwise.


From the IFA's persprective, it would be a lot harder for a player to claim it was their boyhood dream to represent ROI at senior level after representing NI at underage level if they'd had the option to represent ROI at underage level.

Agreed.

[osarusan]

Am I correct in interpreting that as meaning the "rule" would be an unwritten one? How would such then be enforced? By mere good will?

If any other kind of agreement would infringe on player's rights as outlined in CAS, then yes, an unwritten rule. If both parties were agreed upon it, it would be easily adhered to, by mere good will.




This bit confused me:


"Would the FAI be more likely to agree not to call up any player who still wanted to represent NI (at the agreed underage level) after the FAI had made efforts to bring him into ROI underage squads?"

If a player wanted to play for the IFA rather than the FAI, there'd be nothing the FAI could do to force him to play for them, so there'd be no need for the FAI to agree not to call such a player up. Or am I still misunderstanding you? :confused:

Ah, I see.

What I'm saying is that both the IFA and FAI have until an agreed upon time (age, underage level etc) to convince a player to play for them. Once a player had made the decision, the other association would agree not to call them up at any future point (in an attempt to change their mind) before a senior competitive cap ended the issue for once and for all. Of course, if the player was completely happy with the original decison, then the agreement would be redundant. It would come into play when a player started to have second thoughts after the original decision.

[EastTerracer]

I think what NB is proposing wouldn't even be an unwritten rule - just a selection policy by the IFA. They don't need any agreement from the FAI either. It doesn't change the rights of any player but it does address the issue raised by some IFA fans about players who they feel are not wholly committed.

They will ask a player at 18 if he is fully committed to playing for the IFA team, if he says yes, then he is available for selection, if he says no, then the IFA can decide not to select him. If he subsequently changes his mind then the IFA will live with that risk and can't stop him switching to another football association if he qualifies elsewhere.

[Not Brazil]

Hang on, you mentioned a figure of 18, like a hundred times.


Indeed - but not in any context that would breach existing FIFA eligibility rules.

[Not Brazil]

But when asked, players could just say they don't know who they truly want to represent at senior level, and what are the IFA going to do? Exclude anybody who doesn't say they want to represent NI? That's not very likely.


I would expect them to give first preference to those who are sure, with the door firmly open to the others if/when they've had a think and expressed their preference to represent Northern Ireland.

[Not Brazil]

They're all coming out of the woodwork today.

'One soccer team for all Ireland is the way forward – Pat Sheehan': http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/22512?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

The bold Paddy is some pup.

He bangs on about the fundamental right to choice (quite right too), and then offers a solution which takes away choice.

Top man.:rolleyes:

[Not Brazil]

From the IFA's persprective, it would be a lot harder for a player to claim it was their boyhood dream to represent ROI at senior level after representing NI at underage level if they'd had the option to represent ROI at underage level

Going forward, that's no longer an issue.

They all have that option - from Day 1.

[Not Brazil]

I think what NB is proposing wouldn't even be an unwritten rule - just a selection policy by the IFA. They don't need any agreement from the FAI either. It doesn't change the rights of any player but it does address the issue raised by some IFA fans about players who they feel are not wholly committed.

They will ask a player at 18 if he is fully committed to playing for the IFA team, if he says yes, then he is available for selection, if he says no, then the IFA can decide not to select him. If he subsequently changes his mind then the IFA will live with that risk and can't stop him switching to another football association if he qualifies elsewhere.

In a nutshell.

And, of course, if the player choosing the FAI changes his mind for whatever reason, he can switch to the IFA, if he wishes.

[Not Brazil]

To SolitudeRed.

You asked me on the James McClean thread:

"NotBrazil on your suggestions for some sort of voluntary agreement based on the age of 18 etc do you think it would be acceptable for all NI fans for a player who had declared for the FAI to return to the IFA?"

I felt the question more suitable to this thread.

I'm not advocating any "voluntary agreement'' - I'm suggesting a selection procedure that the IFA could utilise from Under 19 upwards.

In dealing with the substance of your question, the player wouldn't be "returning" to the IFA - he would be switching to the IFA, having chased his dream with the FAI. I'm ignoring Under 18 and younger.

I can't answer for all Northern Ireland fans, but, on reflection, I guess it's not dissimilar to a young English player chasing his dream with England, realising he's not going to make it, and switching to Northern Ireland on account of his eligibility in order to have a senior International career.

I would advocate that such a switch from the FAI to the IFA would have to be player driven ie. it would be entirely up to the player to instigate contact with the IFA.

On balance, I'd give such a player a chance to prove his worth.

[gastric]

Just to humour you, at the age of 16 you are allowed to do the following:

Get married or register a civil partnership with consent
Drive a moped or invalid carriage
You can consent to sexual activity with others aged 16 and over
Drink wine/beer with a meal if accompanied by someone over 18
Leave school on the official school leaving date
Get a National Insurance number
Join a trade union
Work full-time if you have left school
Be paid national minimum wage for 16/17 year olds
Join the Armed Forces with parental consent
Change name by deed poll
Leave home with parental consent
In certain circumstances you must pay for prescriptions, dental treatment and eye tests
Choose a GP
Consent to medical treatment
Buy premium bonds
Pilot a glider
Buy a lottery ticket
Register as a blood donor, but you won't be called to give blood until you're 17
Apply for a passport without parental consent

The net widens at 17:

Drive most vehicles and pilot a helicopter or plane
No longer be subject to a care order
Become a blood donor
Be interviewed by the Police without an adult present.

The magic milestone of 18 bestows the following privileges:

The right to vote
Sue or be sued
Open a bank account in your own name
Perform professionally abroad
Serve on a jury
Get a tattoo
Buy cigarettes and tobacco
Buy and drink alcohol in a bar
See an 18 certificate film at the cinema
Buy fireworks
Leave home
Marry or register a civil partnership
Make a Will
Leave your body for medical study if you die
Carry an organ donor card
You cannot be made a ward of the court
Own land, buy a house or flat & apply for a mortgage
If you are adopted, you can apply to see a copy of your original birth certificate
Ride a motorbike above 125cc with a licence
Drive lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer up to 750kg (with the appropriate licence)

Finally, at 21 you are permitted to:

Be elected as a Member of Parliament, local councillor or a mayor
Adopt a child
Hold an airline transport pilot's licence for an aeroplane, helicopter and gyroplane
Apply for a provisional licence to drive a large passenger vehicle or heavy goods vehicle
Supervise a learner driver (providing you have held a full licence for the same type of vehicle for at least three years)


I wonder where the choice of national football team comes in???

No your posts are not humouring, they are boring me. Alex Bruce, Shane Lowry and Stephen Ireland are examples of players who made decisions in relation to their national careers in their own time and should be respected for it. Th last thing I would want to see are players who indicate regret of their choice of association when their careers end, examples - Mark Lawrenson and Martin Keown. The continued mention of age on here is what I take issue with in terms of decision making.

[Charlie Darwin]

Did Lawrenson or Keown say they regretted their choice? I think both have said they were happy to have chosen their respective countries. Kevin Gallen would be an example of a player who'd regretted choosing England.

[Not Brazil]

The last thing I would want to see are players who indicate regret of their choice of association when their careers end, examples - Mark Lawrenson and Martin Keown. The continued mention of age on here is what I take issue with in terms of decision making.

Of course, the indication of prefered career path at age 18, is reversible, if the player later regrets his choice of Association.

The beauty of switching.

[Paddy Garcia]

Did Lawrenson or Keown say they regretted their choice? I think both have said they were happy to have chosen their respective countries. Kevin Gallen would be an example of a player who'd regretted choosing England.

True - though more accurately he regretted not securing a career with England. Only then did he show regret.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think so. I thought Gallen was convinced to play for England because it would make him a more valuable asset to the club.

[SkStu]

there was a rumour at the time that NI man Alan MacDonald who was club captain at QPR at the time was very persuasive in the career of Gallen Sr and took every opportunity to "dissuade" him from throwing his lot in with us. As i said, just a rumour but somewhat believable all the same.

[Predator]

Terrible article here: http://irishecho.com/?p=69482

I can't believe the use of the term "magpie" to describe the FAI.

Here's a snippet:
there is something troubling about McLean’s emergence. It’s not that his raw talent doesn’t bode well for the future. Or that he looks like he may become the type of player who could be pivotal to the Republic’s campaigns over the next decade. It’s about his background. Here is a player whose development as a footballer had very little if anything to do with the FAI. They may well give him an FAI blazer this summer but it won’t change the fact he was born and bred under the auspices of the IFA.

[Charlie Darwin]

And there was me thinking Derry City had played some sort of role in his development! Turns out it was those 3 or so appearance for Northern Ireland underage teams that made his entire career happen.

[seanfhear]

And there was me thinking Derry City had played some sort of role in his development! Turns out it was those 3 or so appearance for Northern Ireland underage teams that made his entire career happen.Jeez if they can work that kind of wonders in three games we will have to let more of our young players avail of their magic !

[SwanVsDalton]

Terrible article here: http://irishecho.com/?p=69482

I can't believe the use of the term "magpie" to describe the FAI.

Here's a snippet:

That could be the worst one yet. It's the kind of article both foot.ie and OWC could almost come together in shared disdain about. Cross-community awfulness.

[Charlie Darwin]

I also feel the article might have a little more weight if they'd spelled his name correctly at any point.

[The Fly]

No your posts are not humouring, they are boring me.

The post was made to humour your prattle about player welfare, not to provide you with a laugh.

However, given your recent contributions to this thread I can't say that your confusion surprises me.

[The Fly]

I can't believe the use of the term "magpie" to describe the FAI.


I know, that's just fowl!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Did Lawrenson or Keown say they regretted their choice? I think both have said they were happy to have chosen their respective countries. Kevin Gallen would be an example of a player who'd regretted choosing England.

Especially as my own pal, sports editor of the Irish Post at the time who went to interview him (and the brother) at the family homestead, said his own family jokily referred to him then as 'The Brit'...

[ArdeeBhoy]

Of course, the indication of prefered career path at age 18, is reversible, if the player later regrets his choice of Association.

So why have it at all in the first place?? A complete orange, or even green, herring.

[gastric]

The post was made to humour your prattle about player welfare, not to provide you with a laugh.

However, given your recent input on this thread I can't say that your confusion surprises me.m

I was just meeting cynicism with cynicism. The length of your post indicated a condescending attitude and because of its its sheer length, it bored me. I think you need to accept cynicism works both ways!.

[gastric]

In relation to Keown, he came from a very close knit Irish community in Oxford. He got called up for England at the age of 16 and after realised that it meant he could not then play for the country he really wanted play for - Ireland. He admitted after his career ended that he had made a mistake and he felt he had let his family down and the Irish community in Oxford. .
On Lawrenson, he has definitely said that England was his first choice, but when Ireland came calling, he came on board. It was only when he realised that he was pretty good that doubts about his choice set in. I will try to find articles on this, but don't have the time at the moment!

[ArdeeBhoy]

My pal's cousin is related to Keown by marriage and said pal, a lifelong Irish Gooner, reckons Keown always 'turned his back' on Ireland for reasons best known to himself!

Lawrenson is no surprise, but he like anyone should be able to choose at any age, even if it means England....which is far more likely to majorly affect us than any odd pedantic Unionist.

[gastric]

My pal's cousin is related to Keown by marriage and said pal, a lifelong Irish Gooner, reckons Keown always 'turned his back' on Ireland for reasons best known to himself!

Lawrenson is no surprise, but he like anyone should be able to choose at any age, even if it means England....which is far more likely to majorly affect us than any odd pedantic Unionist.

I have tried to find a link for my comments above and so far I have failed! I do remember reading about Keown's regrets possibly in the Indo, but until I can find it, it remains for everyone else just conjecture and I accept that. If I am wrong I apologise too!

[EastTerracer]

On Lawrenson, he has definitely said that England was his first choice, but when Ireland came calling, he came on board. It was only when he realised that he was pretty good that doubts about his choice set in. I will try to find articles on this, but don't have the time at the moment!

Will be interested to see those articles - never heard that about Lawrenson before. I know Michael Robinson openly said (in Paul Rowan's book "The Team that Jack Built") that he didn't have much love for Ireland but that it was a good career move. My own impression is that Lawrenson was always very happy with his choice once he'd made it. However he does annoy the bejesus out of us when he gets his us and them mixed up covering England games.

[SkStu]

Will be interested to see those articles - never heard that about Lawrenson before. I know Michael Robinson openly said (in Paul Rowan's book "The Team that Jack Built") that he didn't have much love for Ireland but that it was a good career move. My own impression is that Lawrenson was always very happy with his choice once he'd made it. However he does annoy the bejesus out of us when he gets his us and them mixed up covering England games.

my impression is the same ET. All i ever remember him saying is that he considered himself both Irish and English but grew up supporting England or something along those lines.

[drummerboy]

Keown came from a Irish family who had big connections with the GAA in London. He played GAA regularly as a kid over there.

[geysir]

In relation to Keown, he came from a very close knit Irish community in Oxford. He got called up for England at the age of 16 and after realised that it meant he could not then play for the country he really wanted play for - Ireland. He admitted after his career ended that he had made a mistake and he felt he had let his family down and the Irish community in Oxford. .
On Lawrenson, he has definitely said that England was his first choice, but when Ireland came calling, he came on board. It was only when he realised that he was pretty good that doubts about his choice set in. I will try to find articles on this, but don't have the time at the moment!

I think you have the story totally twisted. Keown was not tied to England at the age of 16
Afaia, Keown has stated on a few occasions that he and his family regarded it as an honour for him to play for England and it was their way to return something to their adopted country.

Lawro most probably would have followed England path if they had picked him, but after he got to play for Ireland he had no regrets about it even if he was obviously good enough for England.

[tetsujin1979]

My pal's cousin is related to Keown by marriage and said pal, a lifelong Irish Gooner, reckons Keown always 'turned his back' on Ireland for reasons best known to himself!

Lawrenson is no surprise, but he like anyone should be able to choose at any age, even if it means England....which is far more likely to majorly affect us than any odd pedantic Unionist.
Keown was on TV3 before as a pundit for a European game, and was asked did he ever consider playing for Ireland. He said that both his parents emigrated from Ireland and his Dad encouraged him to play for England, as a way of giving back to the country that had given them a place to live, work, etc

<EDIT>

Posted this in the Jamie O'Hara thread at the time, and mentioned it in this thread last April - http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1476613&viewfull=1#post1476613

Tony Cascarino and Martin Keown debating this now on TV3

Keown mentioned that he played for England because his Dad didn't want them to move to England and take advantage of what was offered there, and then not give something back. Might not have that word for word.
Said he saw Cunningham play as a striker, and mentioned his parents by name.

Really hope they make this available online later, it's well worth seeing.

[Predator]

Here are Nigel Dodds' actual words, by the way:

“The issue of player eligibility has been around since FIFA’s ruling which allowed players to choose between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Action should now be taken to stop the haemorrhaging of talent from Northern Ireland.

The British and Irish Governments should now work to address this injustice which sees footballing talent developed in Northern Ireland, at some considerable cost, lost to compete at international level with the Republic’s team.

No one should be opposed to the idea of talks to resolve this issue, and there is a degree of irony about the demands for free eligibility. The creation of two international teams was brought about when the FAI split away from the Irish Football Association, and indeed the original restrictions of eligibility were introduced after complaints by the FAI after players had played for both teams.

The IFA put considerable resources into the development of players through the youth system, which is lost when players then declare for another association. In club football there are compensation arrangements in place in such circumstances when a player transfers to a different club, but obviously this isn’t possible in international competition.

There simply is no point in thoughtless calls for an all-Ireland team to resolve this issue as that is not going to happen. What is required are discussions at a higher levels between the British and Irish Government as well as a recognition by FIFA that the current situation isn’t sustainable and a change is required to bring an end to this ongoing problem.”

[seanfhear]

Here are Nigel Dodds' actual words, by the way:

“The issue of player eligibility has been around since FIFA’s ruling which allowed players to choose between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Action should now be taken to stop the haemorrhaging of talent from Northern Ireland.

The British and Irish Governments should now work to address this injustice which sees footballing talent developed in Northern Ireland, at some considerable cost, lost to compete at international level with the Republic’s team.

No one should be opposed to the idea of talks to resolve this issue, and there is a degree of irony about the demands for free eligibility. The creation of two international teams was brought about when the FAI split away from the Irish Football Association, and indeed the original restrictions of eligibility were introduced after complaints by the FAI after players had played for both teams.

The IFA put considerable resources into the development of players through the youth system, which is lost when players then declare for another association. In club football there are compensation arrangements in place in such circumstances when a player transfers to a different club, but obviously this isn’t possible in international competition.

There simply is no point in thoughtless calls for an all-Ireland team to resolve this issue as that is not going to happen. What is required are discussions at a higher levels between the British and Irish Government as well as a recognition by FIFA that the current situation isn’t sustainable and a change is required to bring an end to this ongoing problem.”

As there is an All-Ireland team in many sports in Ireland then why must this option be completly ruled out in soccer. The aspiration for a United Ireland team is as legitimate an aspiration as is Nigel Dodds aspiration.

I do not believe that there will be a United Ireland team in the near future but neither do I believe that there is any chance of moving to Nigel Dodds position.

Therefore we have gridlock/impasse and we may as well continue with the Status Quo.

In the language of FIFA (French I think) C'est La Vie Nigel !.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Nigel Dodds is a cretin, who makes even IKP look like a statesman...

[Charlie Darwin]

I believe geysir is correct on both Keown and Lawrenson. I was sure I'd read Lawrenson expressed a preference for England but after researching it I think I'd just picked it up from posts on here. Like a lot of dual-nationals, Keown and Lawrenson have genuinely split loyalties. We have to get away from the idea of defining Irishness in opposition to Englishness.

Also Nigel Dodds' comments are bizarre. If there's one thing FIFA does well, it's keeping governments from interfering in football matters. I'd be delighted if these nimrods tried to involve themselves in the work of the IFA/FAI and felt the full force of Sepp Blatter's foot stomp.

[punkrocket]

And if you can't get enough of it on here....

http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/02/09/unionisms-achilles-heel-exposed-once-again-as-dodds-waves-flag-for-windsor-boys/comment-page-1/#comments

[gastric]

While I remain convinced that I have read somewhere that Keown has shown regret, that or I am going mad ( which some of you might already think) further research has not helped me produce any substantiation of my claims, only other reasons as to why he played for England. Two reasons put forward as to why he played for England is that due to Britain providing his family with work and a living, Keown's father felt they needed to show a commitment to the country where they lived. A second reason I read was that due to the Troubles, they felt it was safer for him to represent England. Therefore, I got it wrong!

Just on Geysir's point above, my comments about Keown representing England at 16 has been misunderstood. I was referring to him picking one association over the other and his first commitment to England came when he represented England's U16s. When he subsequently represented them at U18 he could not then change countries again under the then FIFA rules. I may have not made this particularly clear.


Just thought this was worth mentioning - it seems Keown's son is playing for Reading U18s and from the very limited info I could pick up, it seems another website has highlighted him as a possible recruit -thanks OWC!

[Olé Olé]

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/james-mccleans-northern-ireland-regrets-16116052.html

Interesting to note here that McClean regrets representing the north at underage. It's fairly transparent at this stage that had there been a structure in place to facilitate the realization McClean's wish to represent the Republic then he would have availed of it. I think that should be the goal, but any action of the FAI's part to facilitate this will most likely get branded as poaching.

[Not Brazil]

[URL]It's fairly transparent at this stage that had there been a structure in place to facilitate the realization McClean's wish to represent the Republic then he would have availed of it.

There was a structure in place.

It begs the question why did he not avail of it?

I urge players minded like James in future to avoid regretting playing for Northern Ireland - by not playing for Northern Ireland, and allowing their place to be taken by players who will cherish the opportunity.

[Not Brazil]

McClean regrets representing the north at underage.

Most Northern Ireland fans will share James's regret.

[Olé Olé]

There was a structure in place.

It begs the question why did he not avail of it?

I urge players minded like James in future to avoid regretting playing for Northern Ireland - by not playing for Northern Ireland, and allowing their place to be taken by players who will cherish the opportunity.

What was the structure and to what extent would it accommodate someone with McClean's circumstances?

I think the issue is because the framework leans in the FAI's favour (and rightly so both arguably and to an extent) then any proactive approach that would be taken would be seen as poaching. With people in FAI circles most likely aware of McClean's background, had any action been taken on their behalf and the option presented to him of representing the association he preferred and thus removing him from the IFA's underage selections then the outcome would have been more favourable, in retrospect. But now that he's declared for the Republic, it's a case of "good riddance" but had he been approached by the FAI and stayed on with the IFA it would have been a case of "hands off".

[Sullivinho]

“(I) am sorry for defecting on my country..republic that is wen (sic) i played with the north at underage so yes am sorry for defecting MATE.”

Has there been any official response regarding the acceptance of this apology? I'm all for it. Sure which one of us hasn't done something utterly daft in our youth.

[Not Brazil]

What was the structure and to what extent would it accommodate someone with McClean's circumstances?

All he had to do was contact the FAI...that "structure" has been in place for well over a decade.

[Not Brazil]

As there is an All-Ireland team in many sports in Ireland then why must this option be completly ruled out in soccer.


Because it would deny choice - there is an "All-Ireland" team, so please respect the choice of those, born on the Island, who don't wish to play for it, and whose choice it is to represent Northern Ireland.

"Other Sports" are irrelevant.