Eligibility Rules, Okay

[BonnieShels]

Can't wait til DI or Predator gives us the OWC lowdown later.

[DannyInvincible]

I'll keep track of proceedings on there later. For now, I have to go to the shop for some popcorn and Coke in preparation.

[SwanVsDalton]

Best swing by the pharmacy too, be prepared to dull the pain.

[eitoof]

After all the time and expense we spent in developing him as a player.... Oh, wait, sorry...:rolleyes:

[co. down green]

After all the time and expense we spent in developing him as a player.... Oh, wait, sorry...:rolleyes:

Comical stuff from Worthington on the radio this evening playing down the whole eligibility issue, brilliant entertainment :)

[dantheman]

The OWC position is getting more absurd by the day.

Really important question here :rolleyes:.
Is Alex Bruce a Protestant or a Catholic?

If he is Protestant, why are the IFA making NI a Protestant team??
If he is Catholic, why are the IFA making ROI a Protestant team??

IFA = Irish Football Apartheid.

[DannyInvincible]

Previously, Worthington has spoken of his annoyance at Northern Ireland players opting for the Republic but he played down the issue on Tuesday.

"Not that many have gone to the Republic at this moment in time and hopefully that's the way it stays," he added.

"We want all our players from the North of Ireland to stay in the North of Ireland.

I see the IFA's PR department is hard at it, but still failing miserably on the self-awareness front.

What happened to the talk of "floodgates" having opened and an "exodus"?

[Mr_Parker]

Well, well, well - seems there's a bit of poaching going on! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13769040.stm)

Nigel Worthington 25th May 2001


"born in that country, you play for that country"

[co. down green]

So that's Alex Bruce, Johnny Gorman & Ryan Brobbel who have been 'poached' from us now.

A strongly worded letter to FIFA and the CAS is required urgently :)

[Wolfman]

There does seem to be strange forces at work.

[EastTerracer]

The RTE version of the story is very mixed up - Bruce never played for the N.Iron U-21s, did he? My understanding was that he was called up but declined the invitation in favour of the RoI.


"Bruce played twice for the Northern Irish Under-21s before opting to play for the Republic and appeared against Ecuador and Poland in friendly games."http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0614/brucea.html

[DannyInvincible]

The RTE version of the story is very mixed up - Bruce never played for the N.Iron U-21s, did he?



http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0614/brucea.html

Never played, no. I think they offered him a call-up, but he declined.

[Sullivinho]

Who receives a beggar's hand-me-downs? Does a specific term exist to describe the recipient in such an exchange or will 'IFA' suffice?

[DannyInvincible]

He was capped twice for our senior team; not the NI under-21s, as far as I know.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0130/bruce.html


Birmingham defender Alex Bruce has opted to make himself declare for the Republic, despite being selected in the Northern Ireland under-21 side.

Manchester-born Bruce qualifies to play for both countries through his grandparents.

Bruce, son of manager Steve, was last week selected by Northern Ireland for an under-21 clash with Israel, however, he looks set to turn them down in the hope of working his way into Steve Staunton's Ireland set-up.

It says he was selected for the clash for Israel, but I assume that's referring to the squad and not the starting line-up.

[greendeiseboy]

He was capped twice for our senior team; not the NI under-21s, as far as I know.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0130/bruce.html



It says he was selected for the clash for Israel, but I assume that's referring to the squad and not the starting line-up.

Considering that he played 2 games for us at senior level does this mean that he is not eligible for them as he was over 21 regardless of whether they were friendlies or not?

[DannyInvincible]

Having a look around Google, I see original mention of him being selected in the NI under-21 squad for a game against Israel has perpetuated itself through blogs and various hand-me-down news sites in the form of him having actually played, but I see no record of him on the IFA's site or anything.

In fact, here's the line-up from that Israel game (http://www.irishfa.com/news/item/1962/northern-ireland-win-in-israel/):


McGovern, Ward, McArdle, McChrystal, Friars, Gilfillan, Clingan, Clarke, Scullion, Smylie, Stewart subs McVey, Callaghan, Hughes.

[DannyInvincible]

Considering that he played 2 games for us at senior level does this mean that he is not eligible for them as he was over 21 regardless of whether they were friendlies or not?

FIFA removed the age cap of 21 a few years ago. See details here: http://fourfourtwo.com/news/restoftheworld/32035/default.aspx

[greendeiseboy]

FIFA removed the age cap of 21 a few years ago. See details here: http://fourfourtwo.com/news/restoftheworld/32035/default.aspx

But was that only for if they hadn't played a senior game? I thought a few on here were saying that once McCarthy turned 21 that he'd be eligible regardless of whether he played a competitive or not.

[dantheman]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/copyof1610df30e8acc8225.jpghttp://img33.imageshack.us/img33/529/copyof1610df30e8acc8225.jpghttp://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/copyof1610df30e8acc8225.jpg/

[Predator]

Can't wait til DI or Predator gives us the OWC lowdown later.If I come across any gems I'll be sure to share.

Just on the IFA PR machine - I noticed a referral by Worthington to "The North of Ireland" when he was standing outside St. Columb's College in Derry in that BBC interview. He's obviously trying to dissuade any future Gibsons from making the switch by visiting his alma mater.

[DannyInvincible]

But was that only for if they hadn't played a senior game? I thought a few on here were saying that once McCarthy turned 21 that he'd be eligible regardless of whether he played a competitive or not.

No, dual or multi-nationals beyond the age of 21 would have had to have played in a competitive game at some level bar senior level in order to be tied to one of the associations for whom they qualified in the first place. If they'd never represented an association, then I don't think they'd have been officially registered with it, if you know what I mean, so the choice would have remained open to players over 21 in that situation under the pre-2009 rules.

[DannyInvincible]

If I come across any gems I'll be sure to share.

Just on the IFA PR machine - I noticed a referral by Worthington to "The North of Ireland" when he was standing outside St. Columb's College in Derry in that BBC interview. He's obviously trying to dissuade any future Gibsons from making the switch by visiting his alma mater.

What on earth was he doing outside our hallowed College?!

Edit: Just seeing the BBC have stuck a video up now.

[ArdeeBhoy]

What on earth was he doing outside our hallowed College?!

Any port in a storm?
;)

[awec]

Nigel Worthington is an idiot. :(

[dantheman]

Nigel Worthington is an idiot. :(
Now now. He's doing a great job for us

[DannyInvincible]

I also noticed that the video report mentions how Bruce's mother was actually born in the north. Is this correct? I'd previously understood it was just his grandparents on the Bruce side. Wasn't Steve Bruce eligible to play for us as well?

Edit: Sorry, completely misheard the report. I should pay better attention. It said Steve Bruce's mother was from the north; not Alex's.

[co. down green]

I think this a cunning ploy by Worthington to sell his new book to the north's fans

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6779/dummiesnigel.png

[Lionel Ritchie]

After all the time and expense we spent in developing him as a player.... Oh, wait, sorry...:rolleyes:

I for one hope a sternly worded letter has been sent from Abbottstown to Windsor Avenue objecting in the strongest possible terms to this blatant pilferage of our players and demanding immediate restitution of the €72.36 it cost to Ryanair him from Leeds-Bradford twice.

[DannyInvincible]

In reference to that quote from Carál Ní Chuilín in the report, it was in response to a parliamentary question from Jim Allister of the TUV last Friday. Here's the exchange in full (http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/qanda/2011mandate/writtenans/2011/110610.htm):


Mr Allister asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure whether she has made, or intends to make, any represenatations to the relevant authorities about people born in Northern Ireland playing football for the Republic of Ireland.

(AQW 576/11-15)

Ms Ní Chuilín: The Good Friday Agreement provides for people from the North of Ireland to claim either Irish or British nationality. Under current FIFA rules, this in turn permits association football players from the region to choose whether they represent the Republic of Ireland or NI at international level. I am aware that previous Sports Ministers have written to FIFA on this matter and that the governing body for the sport here, the Irish Football Association (IFA), has appealed the ruling with both FIFA and the Court of Arbitration for Sport. On each occasion FIFA’s ruling has been upheld. I do not, therefore, intend to make any further representations to the relevant authorities. Any change to this ruling would be a matter for the IFA, Football Association of Ireland and FIFA in the first instance.

Worthington also talks about having to "respect people's decisions". Well, of course, but what would Daniel Kearns make of that?

[DannyInvincible]

I think this a cunning ploy by Worthington to sell his new book to the north's fans

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6779/dummiesnigel.png

Aw, I was hoping to make that the title of my book. :p

[BonnieShels]

This is surely the most hilarious thing in a long time.

Who wants to bet that someone had a word in his ear that all of the guff he was spouting was ball cocks?

[French Toasht]

Was listening to Norman Whiteside on Off the Ball last night and when questioned on the issue of northern born players representing Ireland, he simply and concisely stated: "I respect the right of the individual to choose who they want to play for."

So simple, so straightforward, yet due to the beligerance of the IFA, here we are 631 posts later still discussing it.

You really couldn't credit it.

[gastric]

The sheer audacity of the man. Can he take Paul Butler too if he is still playing?

[DannyInvincible]

This is surely the most hilarious thing in a long time.

Who wants to bet that someone had a word in his ear that all of the guff he was spouting was ball cocks?

The IFA's PR department, no doubt, gave Worthington a briefing before his visit to the other side of the North of Ireland. (It's OK to call it that now; Nigel's doing it.) Anyway, more importantly...

OWC Report #137:

The "North of Ireland" comment didn't go down too well with a few on OWC, naturally. There's also a poll being run on OWC at the moment which asks: "Should players born in Northern Ireland be allowed play in the FAI team?"

So far, a mere 12.31 per cent (8 voters) have voted "yes" whilst a resounding 87.69 per cent (57 votes) have voted "no". To be honest, I find this somewhat surprising, as I had believed that this wasn't an issue for most. I thought the idea of northern-borns switching to the FAI after having played with the IFA was supposed to be the issue. Most seem very confused, although that's come to being taken as a given by now.

Some of the ignorance and ill-will on there, especially that uttered by administrators and moderators, is disconcerting.


Should players born in NI be allowed to play for the FAI team?

Yes, if they comply with the general principle of the FIFA eligibility rules - i.e. parent or grandparent born in the Republic (e.g. Duffy). No, if there is no such connection (e.g. Gibson, Wilson). Simple as that

Article 15 is titled "Principle". Article 16, on the other hand, is not a general principle, and even if it was to be claimed that some apparent principle could be implied from it, express rules will always supersede that.


Players from NORTHERN Ireland should be only eligible for the Republic if they are officially eligible with regards to the FIFA ruling.

They must have links whether it is through grandparents or parents. Several players such as Marc Wilson and Darron Gibson are in no way eligible for the ROI.

That's actually from a moderator...

As for Alex Bruce, the general wave of opinion seems to be that he can shove it up himself, with a few others arguing that the quality of their side at the minute dictates that they can't really be getting picky and turning such players away. At least it has been recognised by a virtual lone voice of reason - possibly one of our NI posters here? - in what is otherwise a house of madness that accepting Bruce would have the effect of invalidating pretty much every purported grievance that the IFA claimed to have had with the FAI. It completely goes against the principle of opposing the rule which allows players to switch to us and makes the IFA out to be a bit of a laughing stock.

[ArdeeBhoy]

'Jurassic Park' would appear an understatement....
;)

[elroy]

Republic of Ireland defender Alex Bruce could be set to change international allegiance to Northern Ireland.

NI boss Nigel Worthington has confirmed to BBC Sport that he has held discussions with Leeds player Bruce, who has two Republic caps.

Both of Bruce's caps were in friendly games in 2007 and 2008 so he remains eligible for Northern Ireland.

In recent times, several Northern Ireland-born players have switched allegiance south of the border.

These include Manchester United's Darron Gibson, Everton's Shane Duffy, Stoke's Marc Wilson and Preston's Daniel Devine.

Newcastle United left-back Shane Ferguson, who earned a full Northern Ireland cap in a friendly against Italy two years ago, has also indicated in recent weeks that he is considering switching his international allegiance to the Republic.

Bruce was eligible for international football for Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and England, where he was born.

He was called up by Northern Ireland Under-21s but opted to play for the Republic Under-21s instead.

Bruce then made his Republic senior debut against Ecuador in New York in 2007 and played against Poland a year later at Croke Park but he has not represented them during Giovanni Trapattoni's reign.

Continue reading the main story

We want all our players from the North of Ireland to stay in the North of Ireland
Nigel WorthingtonNorthern Ireland manager
He also captained the Republic's B team in a game against Nottingham Forest in 2008.

Northern Ireland manager Worthington said that he would give Bruce "time and space" to make his decision.

"I've just got to be patient like everybody else and see what the outcome is," said Worthington.

"When I spoke to him he's been very enthusiastic."

Previously, Worthington has spoken of his annoyance at Northern Ireland players opting for the Republic but he played down the issue on Tuesday.

"Not that many have gone to the Republic at this moment in time and hopefully that's the way it stays," he added.

"We want all our players from the North of Ireland to stay in the North of Ireland.

"We've got a fantastic young set-up, with players coming through to be part of that. There is a wonderful spirit.

"We will welcome them into our group like we do any other."

[BonnieShels]

Like any other what?

[DannyInvincible]

'Jurassic Park' would appear an understatement....
;)

I missed the oddest one of all:


I think we are deluding ourselves if we believe the FAI policy is ever going to change. I'm convinced no matter what we do - appeals to the CAS, pressure through FIFA, boycotts by fans, etc - they will continue to take our players. They see it as their right to do it and there will be no gentleman's agreement otherwise. But imagine if three or four of their squad defected to us. That would at the very least draw even more attention to the issue, and may even put a wee bit of pressure on them to sort something out. A lot of their players are mainland-born and could easily declare for us.

Eh? :confused:

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm, that's more geographical dyslexia than paleontology....

:rolleyes:

[Murfinator]

English born, played through the ranks for Ireland and now supposedly wants to play for Northern Ireland. The lad must have serious identity issues.

[Sullivinho]

They must have links whether it is through grandparents or parents. Several players such as Marc Wilson and Darron Gibson are in no way eligible for the ROI.
That's actually from a moderator...

Are they having some kind of special retro term where everyone turns up at the forum in period clothing and opinion? Nige's compass-coherent 'North of Ireland' remarks must have gone down exceedingly well. I was heard to speak english while at the gaeltacht some moons ago and if looks could kill I'd be typing this message from the beyond.


As for Alex Bruce, the general wave of opinion seems to be that he can shove it up himself, with a few others arguing that the quality of their side at the minute dictates that they can't really be getting picky and turning such players away. At least it has been recognised by a virtual lone voice of reason - possibly one of our NI posters here? - in what is otherwise a house of madness that accepting Bruce would have the effect of invalidating pretty much every purported grievance that the IFA claimed to have had with the FAI. It completely goes against the principle of opposing the rule which allows players to switch to us and makes the IFA out to be a bit of a laughing stock.

Am I a mischievous b@stard for hoping this actually happens?

And seriously, his third choice or not, he might actually improve them.

[geysir]

Nigel is a good ol' northern boy who takes off his mask on occasion and acts out.
Don't be scared.

[Newryrep]

Belfast Telgraph - Northern Ireland bid to snatch Steve Bruce’s son back from Republic


Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/northern-ireland-bid-to-snatch-steve-brucersquos-son-back-from-republic-16011979.html#ixzz1PMOXfWXF

News letter (online version) - diddly squat

[Not Brazil]

Ms Ní Chuilín: The Good Friday Agreement provides for people from the North of Ireland to claim either Irish or British nationality.

Our new DCAL Minister would need to do some revision on the GFA.

As for Bruce - no thank you!

[geysir]

Ms Ní Chuilín: The Good Friday Agreement provides for people from the North of Ireland to claim either Irish or British nationality.

Our new DCAL Minister would need to do some revision on the GFA.



Your new DCAL minister has given a very good answer in which she has demonstrated an unprecedented (at ministerial level) understanding of the eligibility issue and a far cry from the ignorant bleatings of McCausland and his like.
Replace 'nationality' with 'identity' and her answer would be excellent.

[Not Brazil]

Your new DCAL minister has given a very good answer in which she has demonstrated an unprecedented (at ministerial level) understanding of the eligibility issue and a far cry from the ignorant bleatings of McCausland and his like.
Replace 'nationality' with 'identity' and her answer would be excellent.

As you will be well aware, "identity" is not a criteria for FIFA eligibility. The Minister displays flaws in her knowledge of the GFA. Had she have replaced the "either" with "both", and the "or" with "and", her answer would have been accurate.

[DannyInvincible]

I was heard to speak english while at the gaeltacht some moons ago and if looks could kill I'd be typing this message from the beyond.

I recall we were allowed to watch bits of the 1998 World Cup, but only so long as the ban an tí had the English commentary muted for our protection.

Heard from a friend whose father teaches in St. Columb's that, as the principal, Sean McGinty, was busy during break-time on Tuesday, the job of taking the staff meeting fell to current vice-principal, the notoriously-cynical Thomas Bradley: "After reading out the run of the mill announcements he got round to telling the staff that they will be having a visit from 'Nigel Worthington....whoever he is', before scowling at the mention of the name". :D

[Predator]

Heard from a friend whose father teaches in St. Columb's that, as the principal, Sean McGinty, was busy during break-time on Tuesday, the job of taking the staff meeting fell to current vice-principal, the notoriously-cynical Thomas Bradley: "After reading out the run of the mill announcements he got round to telling the staff that they will be having a visit from 'Nigel Worthington....whoever he is', before scowling at the mention of the name". :DIf Bradley ever describes Worthington as a "buffoon", then we can take it that he is as bad as, if not worse than, Mussolini.

[geysir]

As you will be well aware, "identity" is not a criteria for FIFA eligibility. The Minister displays flaws in her knowledge of the GFA. Had she have replaced the "either" with "both", and the "or" with "and", her answer would have been accurate.

The minister is quite aware that she was an Irish citizen before the GFA. Her reference to the GFA in her reply was not necessary. Apart from that, her reply was very good. She is a welcome relief to the previous incumbent, a numbskull who couldn't utter 2 words together on the issue without sticking his foot in his mouth.

[paul_oshea]

As you will be well aware, "identity" is not a criteria for FIFA eligibility. The Minister displays flaws in her knowledge of the GFA. Had she have replaced the "either" with "both", and the "or" with "and", her answer would have been accurate.

i think the or was her whole point.in that those with roi nationality wouldn't want/have/need British and vice versa....leanings