Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Olé Olé]

This issue was discussed on Newstalk's Saturday sports show with Ger Gilroy, in light of McClean's comments during the week. Malachy Clerkin was actually quite critical of the whole thing. The essence of his argument being that there are not many successful Irish internationals that have come from the North, citing Gibson as the exception. He also seemed to argue that the FAI are denying these players that aren't successful the opportunity to a long career with NI. That's my impression of what he was saying, I'm open to correction if anyone else heard it.

Few holes worth picking in his argument. Especially in relation to Gibson being the only successful player. But, I don't think there are (as yet) any North-born players out in the international wilderness as a result of their decision. Wilson is still in the mix with Ireland and O'Kane and O'Connor managed to switch back to the Northern Ireland side. There are plenty of young players with bright Ireland careers ahead of them i.e. McClean and hopefully Paul George and Daniel Kearns.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Give them a chance to establish themselves at the very least!! It's something that's only been passed relatively recently.

And not all their 'better' players would want to play anyway. Well, at least for now.

[Predator]

This issue was discussed on Newstalk's Saturday sports show with Ger Gilroy, in light of McClean's comments during the week. Malachy Clerkin was actually quite critical of the whole thing. The essence of his argument being that there are not many successful Irish internationals that have come from the North, citing Gibson as the exception. He also seemed to argue that the FAI are denying these players that aren't successful the opportunity to a long career with NI. That's my impression of what he was saying, I'm open to correction if anyone else heard it.

Few holes worth picking in his argument. Especially in relation to Gibson being the only successful player. But, I don't think there are (as yet) any North-born players out in the international wilderness as a result of their decision. Wilson is still in the mix with Ireland and O'Kane and O'Connor managed to switch back to the Northern Ireland side. There are plenty of young players with bright Ireland careers ahead of them i.e. McClean and hopefully Paul George and Daniel Kearns.A "few holes"? The whole argument is one big hole.
As I said in the James McClean thread (http://foot.ie/threads/160177-James-McClean?p=1563327&viewfull=1#post1563327), the gambit of Gibson being the only success can aptly be described as pure balls. Indeed, it should only be described thus.
I bought the Star for the piece on Ger Crossley on Saturday and he spoke enthusiastically about his involvement with successful underage teams under Brian Kerr. Now, Crossley managed to be in the senior squad once, but he didn't carve out a "long and distinguished career". That does not make him a failure.

Similarly, of the several others who have recently taken the decision to play for their country, we have 20 year olds Shane Duffy and Daniel Kearns, who are regular under 21 players and young Paul George, who is a star of the under 19s. If one's definition of success requires 100 caps, then that is, at best flawed, and at worst, plain stupid.

There are others who switched during their youth international careers who still wouldn't have "long and distinguished" Northern Ireland careers, by virtue of the simple fact that their club careers never really took off in Britain. Derry lads Ruairi Harkin, Barry Molloy and Darren McCauley, for example, would probably still not be anywhere near Northern Ireland squads had they not made the decision to switch.

As BonnieShels alluded to earlier in the Nations Cup thread in his admiration of the IFA, I should probably thank these ignoramuses for giving me something else to be utterly sickened with.

[Charlie Darwin]

As far as I know Gibson is the only Northern Irish-born player who's actually cap-tied to us.

This "denying them a career" stuff is nonsense. They're not being hoodwinked. Most players will never play a single game of international football for anyone.

[BonnieShels]

It's "admiration" more like!

You are 100% correct in everything you say here.

The one thing that is exemplified by the Malachy Clerkin comments during that OTB segment was how out of touch a lot of "southerners" (sic) are when it comes to Irish nationality with regards to our "northern" (sic) brethren.

The fact that the FAI have approached this in a remarkably professional and calculated way in that they refuse to comment on individual cases, gives more airtime and media coverage to the incredible and confused comments from OWC, the IFA, the BBC/BT and the AONISC etc.

[Olé Olé]

http://media.newstalk.ie/podcast/27976/

Thats a link to the actual panel discussion from Saturday. They discuss a number of topics. McClean comes up on 35mins and moves onto the broader issue and the discussion lasts 10 minutes until the end of the piece.

Shelbourne coach Alan Matthews asks "Who has come through that has earned 40 caps, or 25 caps?" Darron Gibson is briefly discussed by the panel. On second listen, I wasn't quite as accurate with the denying them a career idea but it's almost inferred.

Clerkin's argues that Irish supporters first point of contact with these 16, 17 and 18 year-olds and states that we are "aggressively" going after these players. He also reckons that it is a point of friction between the IFA and FAI which will do nobody any good.

It's surprising that Daithi O'Regan is a hurling man from Offaly whose comments on this multi-faceted footballing matter seem to be the most informed, thought-out and maybe even most logical. Quite disappointed with Clerkin and his arguments, given his position and, as he relates himself, his geographical background 12 miles from the border.

[Predator]

It's "admiration" more like!How presumptious of me.

[DannyInvincible]

The essence of his argument being that there are not many successful Irish internationals that have come from the North, citing Gibson as the exception.

How many senior internationals have we had from Leitrim? Not many. (Any?) Doesn't mean we should exclude Irish footballers from Leitrim from our thoughts or deny them the opportunity to be called up if willing and good enough.

These players who switch aren't primarily chasing after "success" either. That's not the motive. They're not mercenaries. They're opting to declare for the country which represents their national/cultural identity. James McClean's comments show that his ambition is to enter Trap's consideration and to give himself as good a chance as possible of representing his country. If he fails in this, he will not regret it because he didn't carve out a "successful" international career nor because he would have won many more caps with NI. He'll be happy with one hundred caps, one cap or for just having tried. I haven't had a listen yet, nor am I all that familiar with Clerkin, but it sounds like he's just being intentionally antagonistic from what you say. A player's personal judgment on the success of his own international career is simply none of Clerkin's business and a pointless argument in which to engage anyway given it's something entirely subjective concerning only the player involved.


He also seemed to argue that the FAI are denying these players that aren't successful the opportunity to a long career with NI.

Not sure how it's possible to deny someone something when the informed choice accorded to them is entirely their own. Players who switch are sentient beings, believe it or not; they understand what they're doing and the possibility of experiencing no international career at all. McClean's comments demonstrate that.


As far as I know Gibson is the only Northern Irish-born player who's actually cap-tied to us.

Isn't Shane Duffy tied to us by virtue of having played in competitive fixtures for both associations at under-age level and having already made the solitary switch permitted to him? Pretty sure the same applies to Daniel Kearns.

[Charlie Darwin]

Isn't Shane Duffy tied to us by virtue of having played in competitive fixtures for both associations at under-age level and having already made the solitary switch permitted to him? Pretty sure the same applies to Daniel Kearns.
Ah, I didn't think of that. I suppose they must be - that's what you'd expect if the rules were to be interpreted exactly as written, but FIFA are leaner on some aspects and as far as I know it hasn't been challenged. And sure don't the IFA know the intentions behind FIFA's rules better than FIFA themselves?

[DannyInvincible]

Shelbourne coach Alan Matthews asks "Who has come through that has earned 40 caps, or 25 caps?"

Gibson is relatively close to that with 17. Besides, what's the point? Is Gibson only deemed "successful" if he achieves another eight caps?


Clerkin's argues that Irish supporters first point of contact with these 16, 17 and 18 year-olds...

Irish supporters' first point of contact with many players is when they declare for us publicly or appear in our squads. Paul Green was 26 or something when I first encountered him. What does it matter when our first point of contact with a player happens to be?


...states that we are "aggressively" going after these players. He also reckons that it is a point of friction between the IFA and FAI which will do nobody any good.

It was also suggested that "we're overdoing it". The FAI aren't actually engaged in whatever it is Clerkin thinks "it" to be. The FAI are simply enabling players to realise their wish. Nobody is aggressively chasing after players and bullying them into submission.

Contrary to the fears expressed, FAI-IFA relations are certainly no worse today than they have been in the past. The IFA were perfectly happy with circumstances (identical to what they are today) in 1999 - as expressed clearly and publicly by Jim Boyce to Bernard O'Byrne and the media at the time - and, post-Kearns case, have seemed willing to accept the right of players to switch association in recognition that the responsibility is their own if they wish to convince players to opt for them instead of the FAI. The recent comments of Gerry Armstrong and Michael O'Neill indicate this. In spite of the debate remaining a major issue for NI fans and some in the media, the two associations have been able to engage in otherwise perfectly mature, cordial and professional relations as demonstrated by their joint organising of the Carling Nations Cup with two other local associations recently. Even if this matter was cause for frosty relations, I think that would be indicative of IFA intransigence and pettiness; a petty unwillingness to accept socio-political reality/the national identity of nearly half the population in their jurisdiction and the governing regulations in place. It would be an issue for FIFA to resolve via the amendment of their regulations rather than an issue for the FAI to resolve. I don't see why the IFA being "12 miles up the road" or the fact "we all have to live on this wee island together" should necessarily mean the FAI owe them some extra special consideration over that which might be afforded to other associations like the SFA or FA.

[ifk101]

Can you ring in to Newstalk Danny and set them straight ("aggressively")?

[The Fly]

Can you ring in to Newstalk Danny and set them straight ("aggressively")?

I think Danny(Mutt) and Charlie(Jeff) should arrange to phone in around the same time.

A mixture of the former's Tolstoyan verbosity and the latter's Ladybird brevity should do the trick.

We could also get ArdeeBhoy to phone in as well, and he can just go "...er..." between each contribution.

[geysir]

A "few holes"? The whole argument is one big hole.
As I said in the James McClean thread (http://foot.ie/threads/160177-James-McClean?p=1563327&viewfull=1#post1563327), the gambit of Gibson being the only success can aptly be described as pure balls. Indeed, it should only be described thus.
I bought the Star for the piece on Ger Crossley on Saturday and he spoke enthusiastically about his involvement with successful underage teams under Brian Kerr. Now, Crossley managed to be in the senior squad once, but he didn't carve out a "long and distinguished career". That does not make him a failure.
I'm sure his European Championship winning medal won't end up on eBay.

[Olé Olé]

Can you ring in to Newstalk Danny and set them straight ("aggressively")?

I think an e-mail to Clerkin himself would be more fitting. I can't understand how a broadsheet sports journalist entered a panel discussion on this issue without being as well-informed as he should be.

Has anybody else listened to the discussion?

[ArdeeBhoy]

I think Danny(Mutt) and Charlie(Jeff) should arrange to phone in around the same time.

A mixture of the former's Tolstoyan verbosity and the latter's Ladybird brevity should do the trick.

We could also get ArdeeBhoy to phone in as well, and he can just go "...er..." between each contribution.

Oi. Leave me out of that!
Though when I've been starstruck before talking to real famous people, do default to that mode.

Anyway Clerkin sounds like an eejit and the worst sort of 'Free State' apologist....

[punkrocket]

http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/01/05/can-irish-soccer-swing-both-ways/

Been up and running on Slugger for a few days.

[BonnieShels]

The moderation of Slugger really does seem to help the coherence of the discussion of this issue.
However, I still accept that this thread is the be all and end all of the discussion.

[SwanVsDalton]

Clerkin's tweetable if anyone can limit their objections to 140 characters: https://twitter.com/#!/MalachyClerkin

Urgh I like Slugger, and Mick Fealty, but they're as clueless on this issue as just about everybody else (cept us know-it-all's).

[ArdeeBhoy]

He's also on Facebook. Was going to, but then didn't bother my ass....

[geysir]

Clerkin's tweetable if anyone can limit their objections to 140 characters: https://twitter.com/#!/MalachyClerkin

I guess that rules out Danny.

[BonnieShels]

I guess that rules out Danny.

But Charlie is our brevity-meister. I say we send him.




Urgh I like Slugger, and Mick Fealty, but they're as clueless on this issue as just about everybody else (cept us know-it-all's).

They are but in the sense that they moderate the discussion which to be honest is a new experience for me on the issue. Bar this place of enlightenment of course.

[geysir]

Didn't one of them on Slugger recognize that Danny's blog was the best single authoritative essay on the eligibility issue?

Mark Davenport wrote in his piece on the BBC site

'Back in November 2007, the FAI accepted a FIFA proposal that the rule should work both ways, but the IFA rejected the suggestion. The IFA's logic was that there would not be a queue of, say, Cork or Dublin born players eager to play for Northern Ireland, so the idea was not worth pursuing.'

IFA's logic? that would be a generous way to describe the IFA's thought process.
But I do not agree that this was entirely or a even a major part of the IFA's thinking on the matter then.
The IFA thought they were right and still believed at that late stage that FIFA would come to their senses and realise that as well.
The principle (however misguided) was important. A perception of losing face by accepting that particular compromise was also important.
Partly was also, a difficulty to accept that an Irish national born in the 26 counties could identify enough (or even had the right to) with the northern 6 counties, in order to play for them, over and above a tenuous blood connected player, born outside the island of Ireland, who the IFA regard as Northern Irish guaranteed, through and through.

[DannyInvincible]

I guess that rules out Danny.

I fear I'd spend longer on attempting to whittle my point down to 140 characters or less than I would on most of my posts on here.

[Irwin3]

The Court of Arbitration of Sport (CAS) has turned down Namibia's bid to claim a place at the Africa Cup of Nations.
The decision means Burkina Faso retain their place at the tournament, which starts on 21 January.
Namibia said the Burkinabe used an ineligible player in qualifying and as a result they should go to the finals.
Their appeals to Caf over the eligibility of Herve Zengue were turned down twice (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15881567.stm), leading them to take their case to the Court of Arbitration.
CAS did not reveal the reasons for its decision, but said in a statement that Zengue, who was born in Cameroon but is married to a Burkinabe "took residency in Burkina Faso in 1994".

It went on to say that he was given Burkinabe nationality in 2006 and received a 5-year passport in March 2011.
He appeared in both qualifying matches that Burkina Faso played against Namibia in the build up to this month's tournament, hence Namibia's complaint.
The case was fast-tracked by CAS because a place at Equatorial Guinea and Gabon 2012 hinged on the result.
The Burkinabe can now continue to prepare for the tournament, where they will face Ivory Coast, Angola and Sudan in Group B of the tournament.
They played out a 0-0 draw against co-hosts Gabon in Bitam on Monday.



Looks like he was eligible all along...

[geysir]

Yep, 5 years residency means he was eligible all along, so just the question remains that Zenque wasn't cleared to play for BF by FIFA at the time of their game with Namibia, he had only received his 5 year passport the day before the game.
It appears CAS upheld CAF reasons for not allowing the objection in the first place because Namibia didn't present it, in person, in duplicate, on a tuesday morning at 5.13am.


edit, there's other info out about Zenque that he's been resident in BF since 1994, got a nationality certificate in 2006 and a 5 year passport the day before the first game with BF.
Namibia's protest only began the day before the second game, 2 months after the first game.

Namibia's Ollie Byrne must be just a shadow of the real thing.

[Irwin3]

Yep, 5 years residency means he was eligible all along, so just the question remains that Zenque wasn't cleared to play for BF by FIFA at the time of their game with Namibia, he had only received his 5 year passport the day before the game.
It appears CAS upheld CAF reasons for not allowing the objection in the first place because Namibia didn't present it, in person, in duplicate, on a tuesday morning at 5.13am.

Interesting. Is the punishment the same for fielding an ineligible player as for fielding an eligible player who hasn't received FIFA clearance? Does every player need clearance or just those who get a new nationality? For me, if the player is eligible then it should be a slap on the wrist/don't do it again type punishment.

[geysir]

The punishment is lose the game 3-0 for fielding an ineligible player and that's regardless of any official protest filed by the other team.

You'd think that a player has to be cleared by FIFA in order to eligible. But maybe seeing as Zenque hadn't played for any other nation and was a certified national for 15 years, it was okay for BF to register him in the team sheet, the same as any other BF player.
If Trap calls in a late replacement for his first cap, before an international, I suppose the player doesn't need to be cleared by FIFA in order to take his place on the pitch, He just has to present his passport to the match officials before the game.

[geysir]

I note for a Euro qual game, the rules are
Each association must provide the UEFA administration with a list of 23 players(surname, first name and date of birth) as well as the name and date of birth of thehead coach, mentioning his coaching qualification. This list must be in possessionof the UEFA administration at least four full days before each qualifyingcompetition match is played.
17.03 This list is provisional and amendments are allowed until the pre-match organisational meeting during which the final list of 23 players must be confirmedto the UEFA match delegate. For the match sheets paragraphs 14.04 to 14.11apply respectively.

[DannyInvincible]

I've been encouraging Gary McAllister (https://twitter.com/#!/WGMac) to engage on Twitter, but with little success. It appears he'd rather throw insults and unfounded accusations around than even contemplate taking his head out of the sand.

Malachy Clerkin (https://twitter.com/#!/MalachyClerkin), on the other hand, is up for a debate any time:


Some of the posters on foot.ie took leaps and liberities with what I was saying but I don't mind. Happy to debate any time

[Olé Olé]

I've been encouraging Gary McAllister (https://twitter.com/#!/WGMac) to engage on Twitter, but with little success. It appears he'd rather throw insults and unfounded accusations around than even contemplate taking his head out of the sand.

Malachy Clerkin (https://twitter.com/#!/MalachyClerkin), on the other hand, is up for a debate any time:

I'm not on twitter, but I'd like for Clerkin to justify his description of the FAI's approach as aggressive.

Have you listened to the piece yet Danny?

[geysir]

I am absolutely confident that I am excluded from that 'Some of the posters took leaps and liberities',
but I can't say the same for you Danny.

Us Monaghan men have a soul connection.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm not on twitter, but I'd like for Clerkin to justify his description of the FAI's approach as aggressive.

Have you listened to the piece yet Danny?

I have indeed. Had listened to it all by the time I got round to posting this: http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1564500&viewfull=1#post1564500

I'll fire him off another tweet or two.

[DannyInvincible]

... Or five even.

[The Fly]

... Or five even.

What did I tell you about stalking. ;)

[DannyInvincible]

Just came across this tweet by Paul McGrath in response to Joey Barton: https://twitter.com/#!/Paulmcgrath5/status/156798523914989569

I'd never known Bobby Robson had asked McGrath to play for England.

[BonnieShels]

Just came across this tweet by Paul McGrath in response to Joey Barton: https://twitter.com/#!/Paulmcgrath5/status/156798523914989569

I'd never known Bobby Robson had asked McGrath to play for England.

Imagine...


http://video.ireland.com/video/iLyROoaf8UUL.html

This may never have happened...

[geysir]

The Newstalk podcast Sat 7th Jan is available here (http://www.newstalk.ie/programmes/all/newstalk-sport-saturdaysunday/podcasts) for a listen.
Fast forward to 34.30, when the discussion turn to James McClean.

The centre of what Clerkin discusses is that he repeatedly states that the FAI aggressively go after young (impressionable) Nordies.
And the aggressive approach is the issue which is causing him some grief, not the players who identify themselves with the FAI from their own volition.
Quite frankly this doesn't hold water.
One could hold the opinion that the FAI aggressively or rather imo, doggedly stood their ground for years in the face of IFA protests, to defend the FAI's right to select northern born nationals. But where are the indications that the FAI aggressively pursue young northerners to declare for the FAI?
It appears Clerkin just accepts, hook line and sinker, that the FAI have an aggressive approach to pursuing players.

I would ask Clerkin to provide information to support his claim of this aggressive FAI approach.
IMO, he is confusing two different issues, the FAI's staunch efforts to maintain their FIFA constituted rights and assumes they are also aggressively pursuing young northern nationals.

[Predator]

What's all this "we've matured as a nation" guff? There's not much worse than self-indulgent back-slapping.

[geysir]

Clerkin didn't come out with that newstalk nation shíte, but agreed totally with the idea.

I'll give Clerkin a chance to come clean
Present, as i grip him by collar:) one piece of evidence about this so called aggressive approach by the FAI to get players to declare?
Alluding to a (FAI begrudged) Brian Kerr opinion, is not evidence.
Media reports speculating about who might declare, is not evidence of the FAI pursuing anybody aggressively.

What 16 or 17 year old have been pursued aggressively by the FAI?
And what on earth defines an aggressive approach in your opinion?

[tricky_colour]

Personally I feel we should scrap the eligibility rules altogether and let players play for whichever country they like
regardless of birth place or nationality.

Initially it sounds like a mad idea, but the more you think about it the more you realise it is the right way to go.

[DannyInvincible]

Can we just have a united world team? No place for politics in football.

[Charlie Darwin]

Let's just all have sex.

[DannyInvincible]

Just had an interesting exchange of ideas with Gary McAllister on Twitter there, although I'm left slightly puzzled by some of his accusatory insinuations.


If players don't feel NI represents them, work to rectify that. Make them feel represented if you wish. But don't blame players/FAI for not conforming to your desires. Ball is in IFA's court.


You would, of course, totally condemn any form of abuse or intimidation - you believe after all in the right to choose?


Of course. I abhor abuse and intimidation. Players are still free agents. If they're being threatened into playing for FAI, they should take that up with authorities. I think that's a bit far-fetched.


I don't believe it to be far-fetched.


Players have been threatened? Really? By who? With what? Have the authorities been informed? Sounds preposterous. Any evidence?


I'm not prepared to breach confidences with someone whose initial reaction is one of contempt and derision.


You must admit, it's quite an accusation. I'm surprised more than anything. Just to be clear, you're saying that players have been threatened with physical harm unless they opted to play for FAI rather than IFA?

... And so he left it at that. He's being intentionally enigmatic but suggestive at the same time. I take him to be implying that players have suffered abuse, intimidation and threats to their wellbeing for opting to play for NI/failing to declare for the FAI. Sounds outrageous and surely the authorities would have been alerted to such criminal behaviour if true. If something illegal is going on, the authorities are there to assist. No-one will advocate threats.

Anyhow, players are still free agents at the end of the day and entitled to make decisions of their own volition. They must take responsibility for their own choices even if subjected to influence. Subjection to influence is an everyday aspect of life, but it doesn't absolve us of personal responsibility. "But I'm easily influenced!", never cut it in court. Most players expressly declare their satisfaction with switching besides. They often say it's a step towards realising a long-held personal dream.

Gary's one to talk anyway; he'd earlier been promoting the encouragement of players to play for NI. For him, it's pressure, abuse, manipulation and intimidation when influence spires from the nationalist community, but it's mild or benevolent encouragement when it spires from NI enthusiasts and the unionist community. What stinking double standards.

[The Fly]

Just had an interesting exchange of ideas with Gary McAllister on Twitter there, although I'm left slightly puzzled by some of his accusatory insinuations.


You should change his name to Gary. Some might think that he is 'mac' over on OWC.

[DannyInvincible]

You should change his name to Gary. Some might think that he is 'mac' over on OWC.

Done. :o

[gastric]

Just had an interesting exchange of ideas with Gary McAllister on Twitter there, although I'm left slightly puzzled by some of his accusatory insinuations.














... And so he left it at that. He's being intentionally enigmatic but suggestive at the same time. I take him to be implying that players have suffered abuse, intimidation and threats to their physical health for opting to play for NI/failing to declare for the FAI. Sounds outrageous and surely the authorities would have been alerted to such criminal behaviour if true. If something illegal is going on, the authorities are there to assist. No-one will advocate threats.

Anyhow, players are still free agents at the end of the day and entitled to make decisions of their own volition. They must take responsibility for their own choices even if subjected to influence. Subjection to influence is an everyday aspect of life, but it doesn't absolve us of responsibility. "But I'm easily influenced!", never cut it in court. Most players expressly declare their satisfaction with switching besides. They often say it's a step towards realising a personal dream.

Gary's one to talk anyway; he'd earlier been promoting the encouragement of players to play for NI. For him, it's pressure, abuse and intimidation when influence spires from the nationalist community, but it's mild or benevolent encouragement when it spires from NI enthusiasts and the unionist community. What stinking double standards.

Good work Danny! You certainly have tried to be fair and rational in your questions, but that paranoia which we all feel exists among many NI fans is evident in his responses. What hope is there to discuss this issue constructively with such individuals. This thread will go on forever and ever as because of such individuals and their beliefs, many NI born players will continue to associate more closely with us rather than with them.

[Predator]

McAllister is keen to stress that "it isn't over" and that "you won't grind us down!".
McAllister wants the rules to be changed to suit his fantasy version of events. Like so many other deluded souls, he believes that the FAI have a (probably sectarian) policy which is being pursued and they owe the IFA something, considering that these players are "theirs". The effect of Irish nationality law does not sit well with him, nor does the principle of individual choice. As geysir would say, these nordies shouldn't forget who owns them.

He disingenuously talks of how they shouldn't prevent a player from representing the FAI if that is their wish, but then proceeds to lobby for and encourage an agreement, or clause which would, in effect, be a preventative measure, instigated by and for the IFA and NI fans.

Interestingly, he suggests that a possible agreement would see that the FAI did not select a player until after a period of 2 years has passed from when they last played for NI, because "2 years allows a reasonable period to pass whereby a player could then be considered to be 'inactive' within an association.". Entertaining the notion ever so briefly, 2 years appears to be quite lengthy, when you consider the span of the average career, not to mention completely arbitrary. Why not 1 year, or 6 months? No, these players must suffer for their sins.

It's all so pie-in-the-sky, but it is worrying that a man such as McAllister can have a strong influence on the thinking of a fan base and the IFA. That's not to say that FIFA will suddenly side with irrationality, but it is often the case that the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

[seanfhear]

Imagine...


http://video.ireland.com/video/iLyROoaf8UUL.html

This may never have happened...There is a tackle by Paul at about 1 minute 50 seconds that is truly unbelievable. In a very tricky situation he wins the ball against two Italians (and actually gets a free)
Paul McGrath has been the best performer in the Irish jersey bar none.

I do remember Bobby Robson been asked if there was one player playing in England that he would pick and he said Paul McGrath. Who could argue with that.

[DannyInvincible]

Interestingly, he suggests that a possible agreement would see that the FAI did not select a player until after a period of 2 years has passed from when they last played for NI, because "2 years allows a reasonable period to pass whereby a player could then be considered to be 'inactive' within an association.".

A player is technically inactive internationally as soon as he is no longer part of a particular squad. When there is no current squad, nothing can be known for certain beyond speculation. There is no current Ireland squad, for example; therefore it would be futile/meaningless trying to decipher exactly which Irish players are "active" and which are "inactive" or which players for whom the association has or has no future plans.

For the sake of pointing out how arbitrary and senseless this is, how many years was Glen Whelan inactive after representing our under-21s before playing for our 'B' team and then becoming a senior team regular? More than two, I think, but he still came to be of use to the FAI after those two years had passed. If such a dichotomy was to be invoked in the sense McAllister intends, then how could Whelan have been considered "inactive" when he was still to prove of future use to the FAI? As I've said before, a player has no obligation to an association just as an association has no obligation to keep selecting any player. I don't know why this concept is so difficult to grasp.

[geysir]

I take him to be implying that players have suffered abuse, intimidation and threats to their wellbeing for opting to play for NI/failing to declare for the FAI. Sounds outrageous and surely the authorities would have been alerted to such criminal behaviour if true. If something illegal is going on, the authorities are there to assist. No-one will advocate threats.

It's a classic stunt, make the accusation of abuse and intimidation but refuse to back it up, pleading breach of confidence.
McDowell, ex-minister of justice, was very good at that.
But there are plenty of morons who swallow that type of guff.

I say, Gary should go on the airwaves every morning, he singlehandedly does more damage to the IFA's cause than the rest put together.
The IFA have more sense, they hire Gerry Armstrong to press their argument in public. However, whatever ground gained for the IFA position by the reasonable and ever cheerful Gerry, vanishes when the microphone is handed over to the OWC fans' reps who go bleating on about defections, intimidation and the other country.

Can you twitter-check if Clerkin has any evidence of aggressive approach made to 16/17 years olds as he claimed on the newstalk discussion?