Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Paddy Garcia]

I see Marvin O'Connor played a blinder for France against Ireland - and scored too!!!

.....mildly off topic I know - but any chance we could turn him!

[Junior]

I have to go down the foreign birth registration route for my English born kids because I was born in Scotland to Irish parents. Are my kids Irish citizens or only when I get off my ass down to Knightsbridge and complete the foreign birth forms? I'd assume from what Geysir says about Clark, it's the former.

Correct - Same position as myself and if you dont mind me saying you've gone right down in my estimation knowing you werent supping a cafe late in Harrods on the morning of said childrens births, eagerly awaiting 9:30am for the Embassy to open with duly completed paperwork in hand......


EDIT: Correct - as in, when you get of your ass......

[geysir]

You'd think that an accident of birth place shouldn't dilute Stutt's rights as an Irish citizen, if he has grown up in Ireland.
Is his blood any less green because he wasn't born in an Irish hospital/nursing home?
His full rights, as in being able to father a 100% Irish citizen, are cruelly denied. He's somewhat greenmasculated by an archaic legality.

[Stuttgart88]

We were around in my friend's house for lunch yesterday in Buckinghamshire. His 8 year-old Chelsea-mad boy & his sister took my kids upstairs to play FIFA 11 on the Wii. I wasn't even in the room but my boy chose to be Ireland and my girl chose to be Shamrock Rovers.

What more do you want? :)

Chelsea whupped their asses each time mind you.

[geysir]

What more do I want? I'd like the state to fully recognise your green parenting.

[paul_oshea]

Geysir tell that to the Americans.And lots of other nations!

[Plastic Paddy]

I'm shocked to read that Stutts is little more than a plastic paddy.

You use the term as if it is an insult. Has my presence here taught you people nothing? :D

:ball: PP

[geysir]

Geysir tell that to the Americans.And lots of other nations!
Oft times, it's hard to credit the disconnected directions your brain activity takes in a discussion.
:)

[geysir]

You use the term as if it is an insult.
I apologise, possibly there is a hint that I might think there is a context for using such a term as an insult or some negative connotation.
Whilst the hint may be there, it was not intended.


Has my presence here taught you people nothing?
I have become more humble.

[Plastic Paddy]

Good, glad to hear it. Now, write out 100 times "Proud to be Plastic". :D

:ball: PP

[Stuttgart88]

Was that your flag at the Ireland v Nigeria game PP? "Plastic & Proud"

[paul_oshea]

The QPR one? Did he have a blow up barbie doll beside him too? If so thats him alright.

[Plastic Paddy]

Was that your flag at the Ireland v Nigeria game PP? "Plastic & Proud"

Not guilty Stutts, although I applaud the sentiment.


The QPR one? Did he have a blow up barbie doll beside him too? If so thats him alright.

I had my sister beside me at the match. I'll tell her you think she looks like a blow-up Barbie doll. :D

:ball: PP

[paul_oshea]

Sorry Off topic, but the first Irish game I went to down in fulham, does anyone remember the two blonde ones in baseball caps, they were in brogans afterwards? Ive not seen them at a game since, i thought they were fluffers(scratching my head for the consulting term?!).

Hanging around with a few lads from the fastest town in Ireland.

[geysir]

Hanging around with a few lads from the fastest town in Ireland.
Rush?

[Mr_Parker]

Here we go again.Despite everything that has gone before, some people just don't get it!

FAI 'making Northern Ireland a Protestant team'

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/fai-making-northern-ireland-a-protestant-team-15103192.html

Northern Ireland anger as Republic picks Celtic's Paul George

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/northern-ireland-anger-as-republic-picks-celtics-paul-george-15103193.html#ixzz1CesU3lMn

And yet another twisted poll!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/poll-should-northern-ireland-born-players-be-free-to-opt-for-the-republic-15103864.html

[geysir]

From that BT article Northern Ireland anger as Republic picks Celtic's Paul George
journalist Stuart McKinley comments
'The world governing body gave the FAI the green light to cherry pick players born in Northern Ireland, despite Fifa’s own statutes dictating that either a player himself, one of his parents or a grandparent must be born on the ‘territory of the relevant association’ in order to play for that country'

1. The FAI have no right to cherry pick players born in NI. It is the player who has the right to chose.

2. The FIFA statutes clearly state that a permanent nationality/citizenship which is not dependant on residence in a country, is the eligibility criteria.

It all goes to prove that this journalist's understanding (shared by many in the OWC) of the FIFA rules in general and in particular scapegoating the FAI, are based on a total ignorance.

[Mr_Parker]

From that BT article Northern Ireland anger as Republic picks Celtic's Paul George
journalist Stuart McKinley comments
'The world governing body gave the FAI the green light to cherry pick players born in Northern Ireland, despite Fifa’s own statutes dictating that either a player himself, one of his parents or a grandparent must be born on the ‘territory of the relevant association’ in order to play for that country'

1. The FAI have no right to cherry pick players born in NI. It is the player who has the right to chose.

2. The FIFA statutes clearly state that a permanent nationality/citizenship which is not dependant on residence in a country, is the eligibility criteria.

It all goes to prove that this journalist's understanding (shared by many in the OWC) of the FIFA rules in general and in particular scapegoating the FAI, are based on a total ignorance.

This journalist, along with his sidekick, Paul Ferguson of the Sunday Life, continue to peddle this misguided belief time and time again despite the above being demonstrated to them. Their motives for doing so are really called into question.

[AlaskaFox]

And yet another twisted poll!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/poll-should-northern-ireland-born-players-be-free-to-opt-for-the-republic-15103864.html

63% yes. Nice one. Serves them right.

[DannyInvincible]

From that BT article Northern Ireland anger as Republic picks Celtic's Paul George
journalist Stuart McKinley comments
[I]'The world governing body gave the FAI the green light to cherry pick players born in Northern Ireland, despite Fifa’s own statutes dictating that either a player himself, one of his parents or a grandparent must be born on the ‘territory of the relevant association’ in order to play for that country'

I find it difficult to understand how someone might still believe this fallacy after everything that has gone on, especially a journalist who has had ample time to do his homework.

[Sullivinho]

This journalist, along with his sidekick, Paul Ferguson of the Sunday Life, continue to peddle this misguided belief time and time again despite the above being demonstrated to them. Their motives for doing so are really called into question.

In the spirit of empathy, I mentally placed myself in their shoes for a short moment. I found the fact that some players find truer representation with the 'Republic' immediately distressing and an incredibly hard pill to swallow. The image of the FAI as cherrypickers offered some respite from a cruel truth that was quite frankly, bumming me out.

Now happily back in my own footwear. Ahh.

[paul_oshea]

Rush?

Tuam.

Move yer head from left to right as you say it....

[SkStu]

fastest town in Ireland, Tuam.

anyone know the coldest? :)

[paul_oshea]

there is one about trim as well.

its birrrrrrr obviouslly.

[Predator]

I find it difficult to understand how someone might still believe this fallacy after everything that has gone on, especially a journalist who has had ample time to do his homework.It truly is quite ridiculous for them to continue rambling on in ignorance at this stage. Trevor Ringland's piece is just a reiteration of what he said around the time Duffy declared. An astonishing charge, without foundation in reality.


The FAI are in danger of making Northern Ireland a Protestant team - instead of a mixed team - by taking away these young players.
...When Northern Ireland lose a player to the FAI it’s a real slap in the face given all the work that is being put in by the IFA — who have shown tremendous leadership over the last 10 years — to improve matters.How is the decision of a footballer to represent his national team going to make the Northern Ireland team Protestant? Is it a Protestant team now, or beginning to resemble one, considering that the FAI have been 'taking away' [sic] these young players for a while? Where is the evidence to back this ludicrous contention up?

To blame the FAI for the socio-political reality of the north is simply juvenile. Paul Kee's comments on the matter, I feel, show a greater degree of maturity when it comes to the situation. Kee is an employee of the IFA and coaches their u17 teams, so he obviously knows the players personally. It contrasts somewhat to the rhetoric of the IFA president, political commentators and hack journalists.

“Unfortunately we are vulnerable to losing players in this way,” said Kee.
“There isn’t a lot that we can do about it other than try to make players feel wanted and feel part of our set-up.
“Some from nationalist backgrounds will feel an affiliation with the Republic and I believe it was a family decision for Paul.
“If we start to lose four or five players a year it becomes a problem, but I don’t think we will.”

[SkStu]

im sorry but is that the former rugby international Trevor Ringland?

[paul_oshea]

Yep it is

In fairness to him he is "all inclusive". When the new leader of UU was going on about GAA and not going to GAA games, and never wanting to go to games, he said in the BT paraphrasing "ill get a couple of ticket for croke park and bring him" and let him see what he thinks then. He might have said playing for ireland was good but playing for my country(ulster) was always the pinnacle for him, he is actually very fair in almost everything he writes/says.

[DannyInvincible]

It truly is quite ridiculous for them to continue rambling on in ignorance at this stage. Trevor Ringland's piece is just a reiteration of what he said around the time Duffy declared. An astonishing charge, without foundation in reality.

I can't find the piece in question, but from memory, this recent one does appear like a copy-and-paste job. I was searching for the other on Google and happened to stumble upon Nelson's View, the blog of Nelson McCausland: http://theministerspen.blogspot.com/2011/03/fai-are-damaging-relationships.html


The IFA lost out last summer in a case before the Court of Arbitration for Sport, which challenged FIFA's stance on the eligibility rule. This gave the FAI in the Republic the go ahead to cherry pick players born in Northern Ireland, despite FIFA's own statutes dictating that either a player himself, one of his parents or a grandparent must be born on the 'territory of the relevant association' in order to play for that country.

Always good to see the Männyster o Fowkgates, Airts and Aisedom keep himself up-to-speed on issues surrounding the sporting realm, a sphere upon which his official responsibility has been entrusted... :rolleyes:

[Mr_Parker]

It truly is quite ridiculous for them to continue rambling on in ignorance at this stage. Trevor Ringland's piece is just a reiteration of what he said around the time Duffy declared. An astonishing charge, without foundation in reality.

How is the decision of a footballer to represent his national team going to make the Northern Ireland team Protestant? Is it a Protestant team now, or beginning to resemble one, considering that the FAI have been 'taking away' [sic] these young players for a while? Where is the evidence to back this ludicrous contention up?

To blame the FAI for the socio-political reality of the north is simply juvenile. Paul Kee's comments on the matter, I feel, show a greater degree of maturity when it comes to the situation. Kee is an employee of the IFA and coaches their u17 teams, so he obviously knows the players personally. It contrasts somewhat to the rhetoric of the IFA president, political commentators and hack journalists.

“Unfortunately we are vulnerable to losing players in this way,” said Kee.
“There isn’t a lot that we can do about it other than try to make players feel wanted and feel part of our set-up.
“Some from nationalist backgrounds will feel an affiliation with the Republic and I believe it was a family decision for Paul.
“If we start to lose four or five players a year it becomes a problem, but I don’t think we will.”

I disagree with Kee showing maturity on the topic as this part of his comment, "“Some from nationalist backgrounds will feel an affiliation with the Republic" demonstrates that he doesn't get it either.

I've asked elsewhere what would have suddenly prompted two articles and a poll in the paper on the same day, but no one seems to know. Was there a squad announcement or something?

[Fixer82]

Yep it is

In fairness to him he is "all inclusive". When the new leader of UU was going on about GAA and not going to GAA games, and never wanting to go to games, he said in the BT paraphrasing "ill get a couple of ticket for croke park and bring him" and let him see what he thinks then. He might have said playing for ireland was good but playing for my country(ulster) was always the pinnacle for him, he is actually very fair in almost everything he writes/says.

Since when was Monaghan, Cavan and Donegal part of his "country"?

[Predator]

I disagree with Kee showing maturity on the topic as this part of his comment, "“Some from nationalist backgrounds will feel an affiliation with the Republic" demonstrates that he doesn't get it either.I feel his words demonstrate a greater degree of maturity regarding the situation in contrast to the ridiculous sensationalism of some others. Perhaps he doesn't quite understand the rules, but I take it from his words that he understands that the player has every right to play for the FAI. What is it from the comment which you have quoted that tells you he doesn't quite 'get it'?


I've asked elsewhere what would have suddenly prompted two articles and a poll in the paper on the same day, but no one seems to know. Was there a squad announcement or something?Perhaps the editor asked these people to pursue this story? Slow news day?

[Mr_Parker]

I feel his words demonstrate a greater degree of maturity regarding the situation in contrast to the ridiculous sensationalism of some others. Perhaps he doesn't quite understand the rules, but I take it from his words that he understands that the player has every right to play for the FAI. What is it from the comment which you have quoted that tells you he doesn't quite 'get it'?


He has brought peoples politcal beliefs into the mix by using the term natiionalist. Nor has it anything to do with feeling an affiliation. It is not about him knowing the rules, more about learning and understand why people want to play for their country. When bothers to do so, then he may be showing maturity.

[Predator]

In my opinion, it seems like Kee obviously respects the kid's decision and he isn't, as far as I can tell, looking to prohibit players from playing the FAI (although of course it is in the interests of his job to encourage players to stay with the IFA). He doesn't show ignorance of the rules by saying stuff like "If ye're born in Norn Iron, ye play for Norn Iron", or rambling on about having parents or grandparents born in the territory of the relevant association. He also isn't claiming that the FAI is on a crusade to make the IFA team Protestant, like Trevor Ringland. Those things show me a relative degree of maturity compared to the rest of the commentary. If you don't see that, no problem.

Have you had any luck in finding out why these stories have been printed? It really is out of the blue. Perhaps the new IFA president hoping to garner more support for another appeal to FIFA to change the rules or something?

Why do people want to play for their country, by the way?

[geysir]

I'd agree that what was quoted from Kee was decent enough. Bear in mind though, that he's the coach of a 'mixed' team and he would be shooting himself in the foot if he polarised opinion within his squad, with anything other than mature diplomacy. But he appears to understand his role.
The booby prize goes to politicians like sports minister McCausland, who deliberately misrepresent facts to foment divisive social ignorance.

[The Fly]

The booby prize goes to politicians like sports minister McCausland, who deliberately misrepresent facts to foment divisive social ignorance.

A Northern Ireland politician deliberately misrepresenting facts to forment divisive social ignorance???......................Never.

[The Fly]

Oops, that should've been................Never! Never! Never!

[Gather round]

He has brought peoples politcal beliefs into the mix by using the term natiionalist. Nor has it anything to do with feeling an affiliation. It is not about him knowing the rules, more about learning and understand why people want to play for their country. When bothers to do so, then he may be showing maturity

Think you're a bit harsh, there Mr P. Sounds to me as if he understands why people want to play well enough, he's merely adding the context of who they want to play for.

Agreed he could have avoided the term nationalist, but it's hardly "immature" given the wider issue.

More cheerfully, our U-18 schools side managed a notable win over England this weekend, 2-0 at Telford United. The players gave the travelling support of three a lap of honor at the end :)


Why do people want to play for their country, by the way?

You could ask Biggles McCartney or Mad Stevie Ireland...

[geysir]

More cheerfully, our U-18 schools side managed a notable win over England this weekend, 2-0 at Telford United.

That indeed is cheerful news.

[Mr_Parker]

In my opinion, it seems like Kee obviously respects the kid's decision and he isn't, as far as I can tell, looking to prohibit players from playing the FAI (although of course it is in the interests of his job to encourage players to stay with the IFA). He doesn't show ignorance of the rules by saying stuff like "If ye're born in Norn Iron, ye play for Norn Iron", or rambling on about having parents or grandparents born in the territory of the relevant association. He also isn't claiming that the FAI is on a crusade to make the IFA team Protestant, like Trevor Ringland. Those things show me a relative degree of maturity compared to the rest of the commentary. If you don't see that, no problem.

Have you had any luck in finding out why these stories have been printed? It really is out of the blue. Perhaps the new IFA president hoping to garner more support for another appeal to FIFA to change the rules or something?

Why do people want to play for their country, by the way?


I'll conceed a degree of maturity bring shown by comparison to others, but I am still of the opinion that his words still show that he has a way to go in his understanding. As for why the story was run, no, still no answers.

[DannyInvincible]

I do agree that Kee's words are somewhat of a progression from the line we hear from some in the IFA and the likes of Trevor Ringland, Stuart McKinley or Nelson McCausland, but I do see Mr_Parker's point. It's not about Kee and those in the IFA recognising that a player might "feel" a mere "affiliation with the Republic"; it's about recognising that such a player is as Irish as an Irish national born south of the border. Once we can get over that particular hurdle, the debate can cease. The likelihood of that seems slim, however.

I'd imagine the debate raised its head again due to Paul George's decision to declare for us becoming public the other day, no? A bit ridiculous to continue crying foul, but sure anything to latch onto in order to brew up a storm...

[co. down green]

I'd imagine the debate raised its head again due to Paul George's decision to declare for us becoming public the other day, no? A bit ridiculous to continue crying foul, but sure anything to latch onto in order to brew up a storm...

Paul's decision to represent Ireland has been public knowledge for several months and i recall the Irish Star covering the story back in October last year.

[geysir]

Kee intimated that it was a family decision, which could be interpreted that the player would have continued to play for NI if his family had not been interfering.
But probably it was more that the kid talked it over with his family before deciding, which sounds 'normal' to me.

[ArdeeBhoy]

He has brought peoples political beliefs into the mix by using the term nationalist. Nor has it anything to do with feeling an affiliation. It is not about him knowing the rules, more about learning and understand why people want to play for their country.

Surely the reason anyone wants to play for a country is partially because of a 'political belief', even subliminally. And is certainly about an 'affiliation'.
Ask all those Irish citzens who've played for their international team, born in England or elsewhere.

Not to mention, for numerous other national sides and the like....

[Mr_Parker]

Surely the reason anyone wants to play for a country is partially because of a 'political belief', even subliminally. And is certainly about an 'affiliation'.
Ask all those Irish citzens who've played for their international team, born in England or elsewhere.

Not to mention, for numerous other national sides and the like....

I fully understand that, but it was not what I was getting at. The statement he makes contradicts those points you make and that to extent was my point.

[sean r]

what about another senario. are republic players able to play for the north? or do they need a british passport? i was born in the usa to an irish father i have an irish passport so i can play for eire or the usa but can i opt for northern ireland too? i assume there are rules about roi players who want to play for the north

[Gather round]

what about another senario. are republic players able to play for the north? or do they need a british passport? i was born in the usa to an irish father i have an irish passport so i can play for eire or the usa but can i opt for northern ireland too? i assume there are rules about roi players who want to play for the north

All players from NI are eligible to play for RoI (unless and untilthey play for NI in a competitive senior game).

Some but not all from RoI are eligible to play for NI, they can qualify through ancestry or residence as well as nationality/ citizenship.

[geysir]

Are you any good Sean? :)

You would need your father or his parents to be born inside the 6 counties in order to eligible for NI. Nationality is the criteria for International teams. You would need to be a British national to play for NI. Being born (or having a parent/grandparent born) in the 26 counties, does not by itself qualify you for British nationality.

[ArdeeBhoy]

All players from NI are eligible to play for RoI (unless and until they play for NI in a competitive senior game).

Some but not all from RoI are eligible to play for NI, they can qualify through ancestry or residence as well as nationality/ citizenship.
Really?? Are you sure?? Would never have known.....
;)

[bwagner]

capital Y A W N

[sean r]

well i am decent i am eligible for a british passport because my granny was born in eire before the rebellion so she is british. so i am in the maik taylor mold i can play for any of the 4 home countries because i am eligible for a british passport and not being born in britian. matthew letissier was the same way he could of played for northern ireland since he was born jersey. maik taylor was born in germany but could play for n.i becase he was a british citizen born abroad, so he chose northern ireland. so could grame lesaux could of played for n.i so the rules are tricky with british citizenship it seems anyone born out side of britian can play for the home countries if there british citizens so i dont know what northern ireland problem is they could of had owen hargraves, le tiss,lesaux dorigo ect they just chose not to cap them or even approach them