Eligibility Rules, Okay

[DannyInvincible]

The ITV commentator on the game between Algeria and South Korea mentioned that 16 players from the Algeria squad were born in France. Kenny Cunningham mightn't approve, but Algeria's footballing resurgence over the last half a decade or so can surely be attributed to quite a significant degree to the 2004 and 2009 rule-changes on switching association as many of their players would have played for France at under-age level.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Completely different circumstances.

Can anyone honestly we are benefiting from our equivalents - Walters, Cox, Green, Keogh - playing instead of say Stokes, Murphy, Meyler, Delaney.

The difference in ability is marginal, and in most cases, they are worse than the players they are keeping out.

Algeria are getting second generation players from a country that regularly schools technically proficient footballers.

Ireland are getting a rag tag collective of players from a country that doesn't produce good footballers, often coming up from League One or League Two.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha, sadly you're probably right! Well, as of now. Wasn't always the case and could be again...
:(

[DannyInvincible]

I was merely mentioning it as the commentator had brought it up and I thought it somewhat relevant to the thread in terms of the impact the rule-change has had upon the fortunes of certain teams in world football. I'm not at all suggesting that we should be content piggy-backing off English academies and relying on second or third generation players at the expense of properly developing the game's infrastructure in Ireland.

[sadloserkid]

Anthony Stokes, Anthony Stokes, Anthony Stokes.

Is it, the answer to a question that nobody asked, Alex?

[Olé Olé]

The ITV commentator on the game between Algeria and South Korea mentioned that 16 players from the Algeria squad were born in France. Kenny Cunningham mightn't approve, but Algeria's footballing resurgence over the last half a decade or so can surely be attributed to quite a significant degree to the 2004 and 2009 rule-changes on switching association as many of their players would have played for France at under-age level.

This is, of course, the country that produced the parents of Samir Nasri and Zinedine Zidane. Maybe if they imported all the French football schooling ethos into Algeria itself they'd become a real conveyor belt.

And so the old question remains...nurture v. nature?

[DannyInvincible]

This is, of course, the country that produced the parents of Samir Nasri and Zinedine Zidane. Maybe if they imported all the French football schooling ethos into Algeria itself they'd become a real conveyor belt.

And so the old question remains...nurture v. nature?

I think it was actually Nasri's grandparents who were born in Algeria. I wonder do the more gifted footballers amongst the Algerian diaspora in France generally aspire to play for France primarily or would Algeria be their first port of call? Obviously, Nasri and Zidane favoured France and quite a few of Algeria's current squad opted to play for France at under-age level first before switching (of course, there were numerous others born in France who didn't and who played for Algeria at under-age level), but are they examples of or exceptions to the common trend? Isn't Benzema of Algerian descent too? I recall he caused a bit of a stir within the French far-right after refusing to sing La Marseillaise, but Zidane never sang it either. Do the Algerian diaspora footballers choose France as they identify with a French identity or is it more a case of choosing France to enhance their profile despite maintaining a primarily Algerian identity?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Didn't the rules change quite recently, which meant it was easier for the Algerian diaspora to play for them, as mentioned in an earlier post...
Benzema is 3rd generation btw.

As for your question, apart from asking a few French Algerians, guess we'll never know
My very limited knowledge of most N.Africans is Africa first, their host culture second. But as with many immigrant groups, this becomes more diluted over time.

[DannyInvincible]

Didn't the rules change quite recently, which meant it was easier for the Algerian diaspora to play for them, as mentioned in an earlier post...

Hehe, they did; I mentioned it just a few posts up. The allowance to switch once up until the age of 21 was introduced in 2004. The age cap of 21 was later lifted completely in 2009, permitting dual nationals to make one switch at any age.

[Olé Olé]

I think it was actually Nasri's grandparents who were born in Algeria. I wonder do the more gifted footballers amongst the Algerian diaspora in France generally aspire to play for France primarily or would Algeria be their first port of call? Obviously, Nasri and Zidane favoured France and quite a few of Algeria's current squad opted to play for France at under-age level first before switching (of course, there were numerous others born in France who didn't and who played for Algeria at under-age level), but are they examples of or exceptions to the common trend? Isn't Benzema of Algerian descent too? I recall he caused a bit of a stir within the French far-right after refusing to sing La Marseillaise, but Zidane never sang it either. Do the Algerian diaspora footballers choose France as they identify with a French identity or is it more a case of choosing France to enhance their profile despite maintaining a primarily Algerian identity?

You're spot on in relation to Nasri. Not quite sure how I got that mixed up.

Tensions between Algeria and France have always been great. In fact, have a read of this article. There seems to be a relationship between France and Algeria similar to that which existed between Ireland and England during the 90's: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/27/algeria-france-colonial-past-islam
Then you have the 2005 French riots.

As far as I'm aware, there still exists this under-current of tension. I, by chance, lived with a French chap during college and he was very quick to, errm, castigate the African community in his hometown of Marseille.

Anyways, in relation to the football issue. It actually does appear to be the case that they opt for France first. I guess it probably is something ingrained within the French youth system. If a teenager is plying his trade in Clairefontaine or one of these illustrious academies, he's very unlikely to stick his hand up and say 'Oh, I'm going to play for Algeria, I'm Algerian.'

Interestingly enough, Mehdi Benatia had a cracking season with Roma and is now being linked with a big money move. He played under-18 for France but opted for Morocco at under-20 level. In fairness, he has only really rose to prominence this season and I don't think he'd have been considered for the French senior side when he was playing with Clermont but he'd definitely be a shoo in now had he not chosen to play for Morocco at under-20 level. In fact, he was born to a Moroccan father and Algerian mother.
http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-united-blog/68/post/1841093/mehdi-benatia----how-france-lost-the-best-of-generation-87

Olivier Chavanon, Clermont's sporting director, said: "Morocco really wanted Mehdi and so he returned to his origins. Today, he would certainly bring personality and added value to France national team. He is superior to players like Laurent Koscielny, Adil Rami and Philippe Mexes."

[Olé Olé]

I wonder do French people sit at home and say 'Oh, you do know that Wayne Rooney is of Irish origin' in the way that we are referring to Nasri, Zidane and Benzema's roots?

[DannyInvincible]

Wayne Rooney? He's much too obvious a candidate for the good folk of LeFoot.fr. You'll find them discussing the Irish eligibility of the likes of Kieran Richardson and Kevin Gallen.

[Charlie Darwin]

Wayne Rooney? He's much too obvious a candidate for the good folk of LeFoot.fr. You'll find them discussing the Irish eligibility of the likes of Kieran Richardson and Kevin Gallen.
I hear Tony Cascarino is a particular bone of contention over there.

[BonnieShels]

And let's not even get into the whole obsession for Giannelli Imbula that "La Personne Qui Frappe" has, and the apparent, "will he, won't he" for DR Congo or Belgium" saga.

[gastric]

Any mention of Franck Queudrue from the Claremorris Queudrues, le peasant farmers?

[BonnieShels]

*can open, worms everywhere*

You've done it now Ozboy.

[gastric]

No problem Canuck boy, always happy to stir the possum!

[Irwin3]

Hehe, they did; I mentioned it just a few posts up. The allowance to switch once up until the age of 21 was introduced in 2004. The age cap of 21 was later lifted completely in 2009, permitting dual nationals to make one switch at any age.

There was no age limit when the rule was changed in 2004. Tim Cahill, Nigel Quashie etc. Kevin Gallen was also supposedly pushing for a call-up around that time as well.

I think you mean that you could play at up to U'21 level before changing and then when the rules were changed again in 2009 that you were allowed to switch after playing senior friendlies?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Sounds about right, though unlikely DI would make a slip?

[DannyInvincible]

There was no age limit when the rule was changed in 2004. Tim Cahill, Nigel Quashie etc. Kevin Gallen was also supposedly pushing for a call-up around that time as well.

I think you mean that you could play at up to U'21 level before changing and then when the rules were changed again in 2009 that you were allowed to switch after playing senior friendlies?

Article 18.1 in 2008 (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/01/09/75/14/fifa_statutes_072008_en.pdf) stated:


"If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may, up to his 21st birthday, and only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality..."

That was the same rule in substance introduced into the statutes in 2004. It goes on to implicitly indicate that the relevant player might even have played in a non-competitive senior game for his original association, yet he'd still have been eligible to switch to another association so long as the game in which he played for the original association wasn't a competitive 'A' international.

It does raise the question though, how did Cahill switch to Australia in 2004 considering he'd have been at least 24, or Quashie to Scotland as he'd have been even older? Was there not a window of clemency opened for a certain period of time where the eventual post-2009 rules temporarily applied and within which dual national players over the age of 21 were permitted to switch to a second association?

Edit: The form and lay-out of the eligibility regulations was slightly different in the 2004 version of the statutes, but the age cap of 21 was still explicitly mentioned. See Article 15.3(a) on page 60: http://www.safa.net/pics/safa/Statutes_09_2005_EN.pdf

[Irwin3]

Article 18.1 in 2008 (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/01/09/75/14/fifa_statutes_072008_en.pdf) stated:

"If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may, up to his 21st birthday, and only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality..."

That was the same rule in substance introduced into the statutes in 2004. It goes on to implicitly indicate that the relevant player might even have played in a non-competitive senior game for his original association, yet he'd still have been eligible to switch to another association so long as the game in which he played for the original association wasn't a competitive 'A' international.

It does raise the question though, how did Cahill switch to Australia in 2004 considering he'd have been at least 24, or Quashie to Scotland as he'd have been even older? Was there not a window of clemency opened for a certain period of time where the eventual post-2009 rules temporarily applied and within which dual national players over the age of 21 were permitted to switch to a second association?

Edit: The form and lay-out of the eligibility regulations was slightly different in the 2004 version of the statutes, but the age cap of 21 was still explicitly mentioned. See Article 15.3(a) on page 60: http://www.safa.net/pics/safa/Statutes_09_2005_EN.pdf

It appears you're correct. The players who had already turned 21 had twelve months to change associations.

15.5:

Any Players who have already had their 21st birthday at the time of
implementation of these provisions and who fulfil the requirements
in par. 3 (a) are also entitled to submit such a request to change
Associations. This entitlement will expire definitively twelve months
after implementation of this provision.

[DannyInvincible]

It appears you're correct. The players who had already turned 21 had twelve months to change associations.

15.5:

Any Players who have already had their 21st birthday at the time of
implementation of these provisions and who fulfil the requirements
in par. 3 (a) are also entitled to submit such a request to change
Associations. This entitlement will expire definitively twelve months
after implementation of this provision.

Ah, yes. There it was hiding on me; five centimetres across on page 61. :(

[ArdeeBhoy]

Knew he wouldn't let that one lie...

[gastric]

Like a dog with a bone!

[DannyInvincible]

Was just watching Paddy Barnes win gold in boxing at the Glasgow Commonwealth Games a while ago there. The Welsh bronze-winner to his left-hand-side on the podium must have asked him why his head was bowed or something just as the 'Danny Boy' melody began during the awards ceremony. Not even an amateur lip-reader was required to tell what he uttered back whilst shaking his head: "That's not my anthem." Both competitors looked suitably awkward for the remainder of the ceremony, haha. Pretty funny.

[DannyInvincible]

Vine of it here: https://vine.co/v/M9u1jPjjTjt

It's impossible not to like Paddy Barnes, ha.

Edit: An embedded video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDwqRsou-JE

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, he's Irish...

[paul_oshea]

It's not funny.he knew competing for nI what the story is. He should have had the decency and respect to show respect for that anthem. imagine if the rugby lads started saying that during amhrain na bhfian?

i thought it was very disrespectful and not at all funny.

[Gather round]

It's impossible not to like Paddy Barnes, ha

Ginger Spide in no-class non-shock, yet again. The only surprise is that anyone's surprised. You couldn't really love it if ye reared it :D

This is the same guy who got worked up on T*watter when McIlroy supposedly couldn;t make up his mind which team to support. He's a knob.

Of course there are pros and cons for both sides. Poison Dwarf wins a regional competition but has to endure the agonies of Danny Boy while the fans put up with his cartoon Provo gibberish in return for a medal.

You're welcome to him, bye.

[Eminence Grise]

What did they play when he won Commonwealth gold in 2010? I'm inclined to think that he should have kept his head down and mouth shut for 30 seconds. I was watching a re-run of Have I Got News For You last night, when they showed a clip of Obama talking over GSTQ, with herself and Philip standing beside him, looking for all the world like they were going to burst into giggles. There's a time and a place for getting precious...

Course, we could solve the whole problem by rejoining the Commonwealth.:bomb:(...and ducks for cover)

[tetsujin1979]

or by dropping the games altogether?
or creating a separate games for each historical colonial power and its former territories?

[osarusan]

Some of Barnes' tweets about it:


So I said that's not my anthem, so who cares, it's not NI hasn't got one educate yourselves, football is GSTQ so make your minds up!


I'm a sportsman I couldn't care about anything else, I'm Irish, doesn't matter if I'm Catholic or Protestant.


I won that medal for everyone that supports me, Catholics and Protestants alike, I don't care what your religion is! Some clowns out there!

[DannyInvincible]

What did they play when he won Commonwealth gold in 2010? I'm inclined to think that he should have kept his head down and mouth shut for 30 seconds.

I presume they played the same and he kept quiet with his head down. Of course he knew it was going to be played and it looked like he was all set to keep his head down until someone out-of-shot to his left-hand-side, presumably the Welsh bronze medal-winner, said something to him (I'm guessing, about his posture) to prompt the response. I don't think there's a sectarian bone in the guy. He's got a bit of a loose tongue and can be a bit hot-headed, sure - maybe not the most savvy - but I don't think he would have gone out to the podium with any intention to cause disrespect. He's entertainment; not political inspiration. In saying that, I do see how the incident might offend those who hold 'Danny Boy' and an unofficial fabric remnant of a decades-old sectarian government dear. I still found it rather humourous along with the ensuing awkwardness. If he'd started spitting or something premeditated like that, it'd be a different matter. People have been saying, "sure he knew the score"; think of the bitter barrage of abuse he'd have received had he decided not to compete under the NI banner...

[Gather round]

I don't think there's a sectarian bone in the guy

I reckon there are about 200. You just have to look harder, they're dwarf-sized.


an unofficial fabric remnant of a decades-old sectarian government dear

Zzz, get some new material/ fabric ffs. It's official in the CG, FIFA, UEFA, has been for decades, recognised as such Worldwide. Maybe the UN will get round to acknowledging it once they've persuaded Enda and co. to support an end to killing civilians in Gaza.


think of the bitter barrage of abuse he'd have received had he decided not to compete under the NI banner...

Contorted mopery alert. You can only complain about the oppression AFTER it happens.

[Gather round]

or by dropping the games altogether?
or creating a separate games for each historical colonial power and its former territories?

The CG looks like an anachronism, but it endures by providing all, or at least most,with prizes of some sort:

a) England, Australia and Canada fill their boots against

b) amateur no-hopers happy just to be there

c) medium-sized countries can expect more wins than at an Olympics or World Championships

d) new recruits (eg Mozambique, a colony of Portugal) can join from time to time

[osarusan]

People have been saying, "sure he knew the score"; think of the bitter barrage of abuse he'd have received had he decided not to compete under the NI banner...
You portray it as some kind of no-win situation for him, but all he had to do was not be a tosser.

[Crosby87]

Is southern ireland warmer than northern ireland?

[DannyInvincible]

I reckon there are about 200. You just have to look harder, they're dwarf-sized.

Have you anything with which to back that up? He seemed pretty chummy here with Rangers-fan Steven Ward during the opening ceremony: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/debateni/blogs/boxers-like-paddy-barnes-and-steven-ward-could-teach-politicians-so-much-30472660.html

Henry McDonald gave him a great write-up.


Zzz, get some new material/ fabric ffs. It's official in the CG, FIFA, UEFA, has been for decades, recognised as such Worldwide. Maybe the UN will get round to acknowledging it once they've persuaded Enda and co. to support an end to killing civilians in Gaza.

The UN? But it's not even recognised within the UK as having any official status...

Not sure what the latter point there has to do with it, but, if you'd like my opinion on it, Ireland's abstention on having a say was shameful and embarrassing.


Contorted mopery alert. You can only complain about the oppression AFTER it happens.

Ha, c'mon, it's only true. You know exactly how it would have gone down had he decided he wasn't going to box for NI on the basis of his nationality. He'd have been accused of being a bitter bigot, like the numerous footballers from nationalist backgrounds who've opted not play for NI.

Out of interest, I know it was silver he won for Ireland in 1992, but had Wayne McCullough done the same during a playing of Amhrán na bhFiann at an Olympics, would it not have provoked a snigger or even a wry grin from you? Very commendable if not! :p

Not that McCullough would ever have done anything of the sort, mind. He was always very respectful and consumamately professional, even acting as flag-bearer of the Irish tricolour at the 1992 Olympics' opening ceremony.


You portray it as some kind of no-win situation for him, but all he had to do was not be a tosser.

He did look like he was going to keep his head down until he was clearly asked a question by another boxer. Maybe he should have ignored the question in the interests of decorum, but it was pretty mild stuff that resulted in a bit of comical awkwardness and not the worst crime in the world. It certainly wasn't premeditated. He saw the remainder of the anthem out on the podium without making a fuss, even applauding as it came to a close.

[seanfhear]

He must have known what "song" would have been played if he won gold.

If he was not happy with it then maybe he shouldn't have boxed .

Maybe every gold medal winner should pick a song of their choice (except anthems) ! ! !

[Eminence Grise]

Is southern ireland warmer than northern ireland?

Historically, yes, because it was the width of a road-marking line closer to the equator, and until southern Ireland disappeared in the great Imperial Shift of 1949. Since then only northern brethren with surnames as Christian names and bow-tie wearing eccentric BBC panellists still believe in the existence of southern Ireland (much like Atlantis hunters). In recent years, bonfires and fleggg-burning ceremonies and the heat generated by combatants in the McClean and Barnes Twitter wars have considerably raised the temperature in northern Ireland.:laugh:

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ginger Spide in no-class non-shock, yet again. The only surprise is that anyone's surprised. You couldn't really love it if ye reared it :D

This is the same guy who got worked up on T*watter when McIlroy supposedly couldn;t make up his mind which team to support. He's a knob.

Of course there are pros and cons for both sides. Poison Dwarf wins a regional competition but has to endure the agonies of Danny Boy while the fans put up with his cartoon Provo gibberish in return for a medal.

You're welcome to him, bye.


I reckon there are about 200. You just have to look harder, they're dwarf-sized.



Zzz, get some new material/ fabric ffs. It's official in the CG, FIFA, UEFA, has been for decades, recognised as such Worldwide. Maybe the UN will get round to acknowledging it once they've persuaded Enda and co. to support an end to killing civilians in Gaza.



Contorted mopery alert. You can only complain about the oppression AFTER it happens.

Bitterness or just sour grapes?
Ironic Hypocrisy in a way, given in the past you've told me "The Free State, The South, The 'Banana Republic' " should join the Commonwealth...

So WTF are these posts about? Especially as you claimed to be 'pleased' about the golds yesterday...

[Gather round]

Have you anything with which to back that up?

Evidence for PB's sectarianism: sectarian comments about RMc and the NI team and its anthem all in public through Twitter or press conference. Evidence against: a team mate and a local hack like him, and DI doesn't want it to be so...


The UN? But it's not even recognised within the UK as having any official status...

Did you miss it being recognised in the four corners of the Globe? None of whom really care about Stormont's failure to agree a flag.

Anyway,predictable response to your oft-repeated point.


Not sure what the latter point there has to do with it

I'm contractually obliged to slag off Enda. Jealous of his boyish good looks ;)

I'd taken your opinion on Gaza and the UN/ EU's hopelessness as read, but thanks for it anyway.


Ha, c'mon, it's only true. You know exactly how it would have gone down had he decided he wasn't going to box for NI on the basis of his nationality

Pessimistic predictions about hypothetical future events aren't "true", any more than criticising NI fans in 2014 because they share a flag with Basil Brooke or Jim Craig is relevant.

PB was very unlikely to give up a place at the CG. He's the third ranked of one of ten groups of athletes in a minority sport. Not someone like Bolt or McIlroy who can pass on events he doesn;t fancy.


had Wayne McCullough done the same during a playing of Amhrán na bhFiann at an Olympics, would it not have provoked a snigger or even a wry grin from you?

I don't actually watch the fights themseles, don't like sight of blood. I did smile though when Rory threw off that Tricolor some Yank gave him during the Ryder Cup :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Good you botherered to answer my points then...
Anyway
http://thescore.thejournal.ie/paddy-barnes-anthem-commonwealth-games-1602348-Aug2014/#respond

[osarusan]

He did look like he was going to keep his head down until he was clearly asked a question by another boxer. Maybe he should have ignored the question in the interests of decorum, but it was pretty mild stuff that resulted in a bit of comical awkwardness and not the worst crime in the world. It certainly wasn't premeditated. He saw the remainder of the anthem out on the podium without making a fuss, even applauding as it came to a close.
No argument with any of that, but it's removed from your earlier posts where you seemed to be celebrating his behaviour.

Certainly, it prompted you to say that it was 'impossible not to like Paddy Barnes, ha.'

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except Barnes did nothing wrong. A storm in a thimble.

[BonnieShels]

I read the comments on that score article.
Idiot so I am.

Why did ya bother AB?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Just to illustrate other views beyond foot.ie. Why not...
Especially as an antidote to GR's sniping.

[DannyInvincible]

He must have known what "song" would have been played if he won gold.

If he was not happy with it then maybe he shouldn't have boxed .

He would have known. He didn't say he had a problem with it; he was going to quietly stand through it with his head bowed, presumably like he'd done in 2010 when he similarly won gold and stood through an irrelevant dirge for formality's sake. It was only when he was asked a question by an interrupting voice to his side that he replied back to enlighten said interrupter with the now-infamous words and was caught on camera doing so. He didn't go to the podium with the intention of making a protest (or provoking the ensuing storm).


Evidence for PB's sectarianism: sectarian comments about RMc and the NI team and its anthem all in public through Twitter or press conference. Evidence against: a team mate and a local hack like him, and DI doesn't want it to be so...

Ha, I'm not that bothered. I do think he's gotten a bit of a raw deal though and just don't think the evidence for his alleged sectarian core is all that compelling. Which comments about McIlroy were sectarian exactly? Sure McIlroy, like himself, is from a Catholic background. And what did he say about the NI team and its anthem that was so insulting? I'm looking, but I'm just not seeing anything.


Did you miss it being recognised in the four corners of the Globe? None of whom really care about Stormont's failure to agree a flag.

Global federations, associations or bodies with teams competing against NI teams would naturally recognise whatever flag the fellow NI governing body in a particular sport adopted, just like how rugby unions/federations around the globe recognise this to be the flag of the Ireland rugby team:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/IRFU_Provinces_Flag.jpg

That doesn't establish any official or legal status. Anyway, it doesn't really matter if other bodies around the globe couldn't give a toss about the use of an out-of-date flag due to Stormont's failure to agree a current flag; it seems you don't care either. The 'Ulster Banner' is a wildly inappropriate flag for any association to adopt whilst simultaneously claiming to be a shared and broadly-representative cross-community body, but, hey, if they wanna look bad (and you're not that bothered), that's entirely their call (and yours). Good luck with that!


Pessimistic predictions about hypothetical future events aren't "true"...

Well, OK, I can see how loyalists might be suffering from bitterness fatigue with no bile left to spew given all the time, energy and hate they've devoted to their fleg protests...


I did smile though when Rory threw off that Tricolor some Yank gave him during the Ryder Cup

No class. He's a knob. You're welcome to him, bye. ;)

What's this AB's been saying about you being happy with Barnes' gold though?...


No argument with any of that, but it's removed from your earlier posts where you seemed to be celebrating his behaviour.

Certainly, it prompted you to say that it was 'impossible not to like Paddy Barnes, ha.'

Well, it's not as if I'm a big fan of the symbolism concerned, but I wasn't quite celebrating. His chutzpah did entertain me, however. It was irreverent and brazen; dare I say, endearingly so. I thought it was a funny moment and, importantly, harmless. It made me chuckle, just like McIlroy dissing the tricolour made GR chuckle. What can I say? Us northerners are like that. :)

I did make clear, though, that had he started spitting or going out of his way to insult or trample upon someone else's tradition or cultural artifacts in a clearly-premeditated fashion, it would have been a different story. I have no time for that.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No class. He's a knob. You're welcome to him, bye.

What's this AB's been saying about you being happy with Barnes' gold though?...

It's called double standards or selective, er, 'amnesia'...

[Gather round]

Sectarian intent- sneering at McIlroy basically as a Unionist although he's only ever represented one country, unlike the hypocritical Barnes, then gurning through Danny Boy, then posting the usual incoherent sh*te on Twitter. So sectarian effect. Admittedly reading his account is marginally less painful than listening to him talk (and I went to school round the corner from his club).

You can't seriously be suggesting that him and McIlroy being the same (or any) religion is relevant. Atheist paramilitaries who shoot people are the most sectarian of all.

While I quite like the NI flag, I'd be quite prepared to compromise on a new one, take the crown off for instance. Are there any suggestions that would get both community support? No, in fact there are no suggestions at all from SF and SDLP, who (like you, presumably) think it's more politically adroit, or funnier, to riff incessantly that NI somehow isn't 'official' without one. Whatever floats your boat...

All bitterness and bile fades with time, you know. I mean, I accept that Gerry Kelly and Caral ni Chuilin don't plan a return to blowing things up. The Flaggers are ridiculed both for mass intolerance and minority turnout, clearly one contradicts the other.

I'd prefer NI sports teams and their fans didn't "look bad", but obviously whatever we do will look bad to PB, his Twitterati and SF institutionally. So, you know, no-one will suggest anything in an attempt to win over that extreme.

Sure, I celebrated PB's gold for the reasons already given in my first post on the subject. Basically, there are pros and cons for both sides. His d*ckwad behavior on Saturday just tips the scales. Without him we'd have got one less medal and finished one place lower in the table. I could live with him deliberately missing the games-it'd be similar to our two hockey players who got medals for England.

As for the rest, AB has either been sitting in the sun too long or is tired after re-typing the collected works of a chimpanzee. I've never suggested that the Irish Republic should join the Commonwealth or would gain any real benefit from it. After all you already hae a good relationship with England, adoring crowds to meet Betty Windsor and the rest.