Eligibility Rules, Okay

[SkStu]

Just by the way but Montreal Impact had a québécois fleur de lis flag at the game yesterday as opposed to the Canadian standard. Interesting statement - separatist bast@rds!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Quebec? I don't think you know what you are talking about there brother.
Erm, I do.

[Colbert Report]

How do you figure Quebec have more of a right to an international team than Northern Ireland?

[CraftyToePoke]

I will admit only a vague awareness, at best of the Quebec matter, up to it being mentioned here, but did have a quick Google.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_sovereignty_movement

[Colbert Report]

They voted twice to stay in Canada. Case closed. Any province wishing to get out of Confederation needs to get 7 out of 10 provinces which must represent at least a two-thirds majority in total population. Hence, you can't secede without Ontario, Quebec, and either all five out of the eight remaining provinces. It will never, ever, ever happen and nobody here in Canada has talked about it happening for well over fifteen years now. Whoever brought them into the conversation had better give himself a slap as have absolutely no right to call themselves a country and are not represented as a country in any sport whatsoever, nor thave they ever been.

[ifk101]

It really depends on how you define country. If you equate country to sovereign state, Quebec isn't a country.

[punkrocket]

The Quebecois provincial government does have more power than the Stormont Assembly though.

[Colbert Report]

Canada itself is one of, if not the single most de-centralised governments in the world. Every provincial government has enormous power in comparison to the Stormont Assembly. Does this mean that Canada should have ten provincial teams instead of one national one? No, of course not.

[punkrocket]

It does demonstrate the privileged position that the home nations find themselves in though.

[dantheman]

The Quebecois provincial government does have more power than the Stormont Assembly though. And it probably doesn't run a 40% annual budget deficit like Stormont either!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Not saying Quebec's not part of Canada, but they do have a fierce spirit of being an individual entity based on my experience of dealing with various Canadians, including Quebecers.

Anyway regardless, theirs and many other regions would appear to have as much rights as four parts of the same small country having four different teams.
My German pals say Bavaria have much the same attitude, but that's a whole other can of worms...

[Charlie Darwin]

Well the obvious difference is that Quebec hasn't historically had a national football team or association.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So what? It's not like they were allowed the opportunity.

They'd be more credible as a country than various parts of Britain. And their mediocre soccer teams!
;)

[shakermaker1982]

A bit late but I read World Soccer every month and the last couple of months they have brought up Equatorial Guinea's blatant cheating with respect to fielding players who are ineligible. CAF (governing body) have even admitted that they haven't been thorough because it's almost impossible to check the place of birth for every single player on the African continent.

They reached the Q Finals of the African Nations and I'm surprised there hasn't been more of a fuss. Will Qatar be next?

[Predator]

If anyone happens to be in Limerick over the next few days, they should go to this: http://www.fai.ie/domestic-a-grassroots/schools-football/102423.html

Interestingly, NISFA's Duffy and Harkin both played for the FAI home-based squad very recently. Another St. Columb's lad, McEneff, who plays for Institute, is said to be quite a player and has been on trial with some Scottish clubs this year.Any of you Limerick nutters go to this?

[Irwin3]

Not sure if it belongs here, but it highlights the ignorance of a player who has been playing under the FAI who thought it was in fact the IFA.


Free agent Rohan Ricketts, who has been training with Exeter, on Twitter: (https://twitter.com/RohanRicketts/status/182770855061880832) "Waiting for FA, FIFA and IFA to push through this ITC so I can be registered before 5pm deadline. This is so frustrating!"

Edit - Just checked his twitter. Original post deleted. Now updated with FAI in place. He must've seen the error of his ways...

[DannyInvincible]

A bit late but I read World Soccer every month and the last couple of months they have brought up Equatorial Guinea's blatant cheating with respect to fielding players who are ineligible. CAF (governing body) have even admitted that they haven't been thorough because it's almost impossible to check the place of birth for every single player on the African continent.

They reached the Q Finals of the African Nations and I'm surprised there hasn't been more of a fuss. Will Qatar be next?

Does World Soccer know for certain that these EG players aren't eligible? I've only read mere speculation on forums thus far but it is an interesting one, especially the case of the Brazil-born goalkeeper, Danilo. Many of the Spain-born players might be explained by EG's former colonial relationship with Spain, but who's to say Danilo doesn't have EG ancestry of some sort either (even if his Wikipedia article does say he's a naturalised citizen)?

[geysir]

My guess would be is that some of them claim ancestry, there's no way to disprove it and therein lies the difficulty for CAF.
However the CAF secretary-general Hicham El Amrani doesn't inspire confidence in CAF's approach to whole player eligibility affair

http://www.africa-times-news.com/2012/01/caf-sees-no-reason-for-extra-nationality-checks/

[DannyInvincible]

My guess would be is that some of them claim ancestry, there's no way to disprove it and therein lies the difficulty for CAF.

Do CAF have a burden of disproof? I wouldn't have thought so. Surely the burden of proof must lie with the EG football association and the players concerned. If someone was willing to challenge the eligibility of these players, of course.

[geysir]

The interview leaves more questions than answers.

When that eligibility dispute was all the rage about Burkina Faso /Zengue, FIFA stated they would not get involved.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15560063
'Football's world governing body insisted that it was up to national associations to police themselves when using foreign-born players to make sure that they complied with regulations'
"It is the responsibility of the association intending to summon and field a player for one of its representative teams to examine if the player is eligible to play for them or not," Fifa told Reuters in a statement. "This means that they have to verify if all the rules are followed.
"We cannot comment on that (Caf) decision."
"Neither are we in a position to establish whether the player is or is not eligible to play for the representative teams of Burkina Faso, since, as already mentioned previously, this is the responsibility of the association."

I presume that means the association is responsible for the veracity, FIFA don't investigate the validity of documents presented but just consider the information as is presented.
However in the case of a previously capped player changing associations, they would have to have valid information as to when that player became a national of his new association.

[Newryrep]

everybodys favoorite Elite Player Mentor is on Today fm premiership tomorrow, wonder if the eligibility will raise its head ?

[shakermaker1982]

I'll try and dig out last month's World Soccer mag this weekend. Fascinating article and I'm amazed the story didn't snowball into a 'big issue' around the world.

[Lionel Ritchie]

everybodys favoorite Elite Player Mentor is on Today fm premiership tomorrow, wonder if the eligibility will raise its head ?

Can questions be phoned in for this? I wonder how far in it'll be before someone says "Since the GFA..."

[Lionel Ritchie]

just answering my own question here. No -the interview is pre-recorded

[DannyInvincible]

Anything relevant discussed by Armstrong?

[Newryrep]

Anything relevant discussed by Armstrong?

no mostly Espana 82

[Lionel Ritchie]

Anything relevant discussed by Armstrong?

Almost entirely about NI beating Spain in 82. Thinks we'll have our work cut out against them ...no sh**.

[nigel-harps1954]

Is there a maximum amount of pages a thread can go on for?

[dantheman]

Is there a maximum amount of pages a thread can go on for?We're only warming up.....

[DannyInvincible]

Something I decided to write in response to being accused of supporting "football apartheid in Ireland" a while back as well as some other related issues that I felt were worth clarifying: "Football Apartheid in Ireland", Misrepresentation and Bogus Moralising (http://backpagefootball.com/international/%E2%80%9Cfootball-apartheid-in-ireland%E2%80%9D-misrepresentation-and-bogus-moralising/).

[Newryrep]

Something I decided to write in response to being accused of supporting "football apartheid in Ireland" a while back as well as some other related issues that I felt were worth clarifying: "Football Apartheid in Ireland", Misrepresentation and Bogus Moralising (http://backpagefootball.com/international/%E2%80%9Cfootball-apartheid-in-ireland%E2%80%9D-misrepresentation-and-bogus-moralising/).

nicely put Danny as expected

[ArdeeBhoy]

Something I decided to write in response to being accused of supporting "football apartheid in Ireland" a while back as well as some other related issues that I felt were worth clarifying: "Football Apartheid in Ireland", Misrepresentation and Bogus Moralising (http://backpagefootball.com/international/%E2%80%9Cfootball-apartheid-in-ireland%E2%80%9D-misrepresentation-and-bogus-moralising/).

Well given the level of widespread ignorance across the web, think it could be a lifetime campaign to get it through to some of the fools still spouting nonsense elsewhere...
:eek:

[geysir]

Using Twitter to debate and clarify player eligibility related issues, would have to be an unbearably restrictive process for a man of Danny's expressive nature.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Something I decided to write in response to being accused of supporting "football apartheid in Ireland" a while back as well as some other related issues that I felt were worth clarifying: "Football Apartheid in Ireland", Misrepresentation and Bogus Moralising (http://backpagefootball.com/international/%E2%80%9Cfootball-apartheid-in-ireland%E2%80%9D-misrepresentation-and-bogus-moralising/).

Another good article Danny, very nice style of writing.

[Predator]

The thing that gets me is that the press man or chairman (or whatever he actually is) of the AONISC felt the need to block you, essentially shielding himself from a view that is at odds with his own. I suppose blocking you makes the sand more comfortable for his head.

[Sullivinho]

Eloquent and to the point as ever Danny.

'Apartheid'. God save the drama queens.

[DannyInvincible]

Using Twitter to debate and clarify player eligibility related issues, would have to be an unbearably restrictive process for a man of Danny's expressive nature.

Consider it therapy to help cure my unruly verbosity. :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

The thing that gets me is that the press man or chairman (or whatever he actually is) of the AONISC felt the need to block you, essentially shielding himself from a view that is at odds with his own. I suppose blocking you makes the sand more comfortable for his head.


To be fair, he's probably just representative of his, er, 'constituency'. :eek:

[DannyInvincible]

From OWC:



What exactly is the IFA position? Are they still arguing with FIFA for a rule change/review or are they negotiating with the FAI to ensure that underage players are not picked/poached after they have been playing for Norn Iron underage
Surely the latter approach is the most sensible - in that it is the most likely to work?

Can't approach fifa again on issue until June.

I wonder does that mean the IFA are planning on making a formal approach to FIFA on the matter again in June or is the above merely a reference to the next general meeting between the IFA and FIFA?

[SwanVsDalton]

All the noise coming from the IFA seemed to indicate they considered the FIFA route dead. Maybe they want to petition for a general rule change, away from any specific Ireland issue.

[DannyInvincible]

For what would they petition? The re-introduction of an age cap on the right to switch association once? The removal of the right to switch altogether? The incorporation of the article 6 criteria into what is now article 5? Longer runways for pigs?

[SwanVsDalton]

For what would they petition? The re-introduction of an age cap on the right to switch association once? The removal of the right to switch altogether? The incorporation of the article 6 criteria into what is now article 5? Longer runways for pigs?

I'd imagine it would be the age cap IF they were to do so but, as Bono says, the IFA work in mysterious ways. Just speculation, but I can't imagine even the IFA going back to FIFA for another round of one-sided litigation after the last disaster.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha, here's hoping...

[DannyInvincible]

Piece from the Belfast Telegraph on Brendan Rodgers featuring a few paragraphs on his son Anton potentially switching from the FAI to the IFA: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/premiership/orsquoneill-can-pull-our-wee-country-out-of-the-doldrums-16144660.html


It is possible that Brendan's son Anton, attempting to carve out a career with Brighton, could play under O'Neill in the future.

The Republic of Ireland have already shown an interest in Rodgers junior, who was born in England, and now Northern Ireland have made their move.

“I've spoken to Gerry Armstrong and the Northern Ireland under-21 manager Stephen Robinson (pictured) about Anton and hopefully something can develop with that.

“I'd be proud of that as my children have been brought up very much Northern Irish — but right now his main priority is to carve out a professional career.

“Anton has played for Brighton in the FA Cup this season which was great. He's developing well at Brighton and enjoys being there and they like him. It's tough trying to be a football player but hopefully he'll keep plugging away. He's at a great place at Brighton. They are a club going forward.”

If Anton shows his dad’s determination he will have a chance of forging a fine career.

By the way, for anyone in the Dublin area, I co-wrote a piece on eligibility in the latest edition of the YBIG fanzine. It's free with the Dublin edition of today's Irish Daily Star and covers some issues that would have been discussed here a while back as it was originally written at the end of January/beginning of February in preparation for the Czech friendly but there was a delay in the fanzine eventually going to print. It'll also be viewable online from Wednesday.

[paul_oshea]

Just a little thing here that people asked about before, stutts and osarusan i think, but anyway I recently met a trainee american solicitor/lawyer over here, whose great-grand parents were Irish. Her mother had an Irish passport, but she was unable to get one even though her mother has one, because it was her great-grandparents and not her grandparents. I asked are you sure about this(remembering on here there seemed to be some people fairly intent that you could), and she said she had exhausted every avenue, mainly because she wanted to come over and work here and that was her best way of doing it, but now she had to go through university to get a visa.

She explained a whole lot more but thats the short hand of it. I automatically assumed any parent who had an Irish passport could then apply for their own children but it looks like it only stretches 3 generations of birth in Ireland. That seems a little unfair, but reasonable.

[DannyInvincible]

Just a little thing here that people asked about before, stutts and osarusan i think, but anyway I recently met a trainee american solicitor/lawyer over here, whose great-grand parents were Irish. Her mother had an Irish passport, but she was unable to get one even though her mother has one, because it was her great-grandparents and not her grandparents. I asked are you sure about this(remembering on here there seemed to be some people fairly intent that you could), and she said she had exhausted every avenue, mainly because she wanted to come over and work here and that was her best way of doing it, but now she had to go through university to get a visa.

She explained a whole lot more but thats the short hand of it. I automatically assumed any parent who had an Irish passport could then apply for their own children but it looks like it only stretches 3 generations of birth in Ireland. That seems a little unfair, but reasonable.

Some information on that here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html


If one of your grandparents is an Irish citizen but none of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register.

If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration. The Irish citizenship of successive generations may be maintained in this way by each generation ensuring their registration in the Foreign Births Register before the birth of the next generation.

Since 1 July 1986, a person registered in the Foreign Births Entry Book after 1986 is deemed to be an Irish citizen only from the date of his/her entry in the Register and not from the date of birth. This means that children born to that person before his/her date of entry in the Register are not entitled to citizenship.

People registered before July 1986 are deemed Irish citizens either from the date the original Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act came into force, that is, 17 July 1956, or their date of birth, whichever is later. Only children born after 17 July 1956 can claim citizenship in such cases.

As far as I understand, her mother would had to have registered her own birth with the Foreign Births Register before the birth of her daughter. Presumably she didn't if her daughter is ineligible for Irish citizenship.

[paul_oshea]

It was something like that DI, but it was more specifically to do with when her mothers grandparents being alive, they needed to do something.

[ifk101]

Extract in the Times today from a forthcoming book on the history of Irish football.

Issue of who should be called Ireland was contentious one
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0418/1224314875875.html

[DannyInvincible]

The 28th issue of the YBIG fanzine went online last night and can be viewed here for anyone interested: http://www.ybig.ie/ybig-issue-28.4.30.fanzine.html

The eligibility piece is on pages 13-14 of the online reader.

[geysir]

The 28th issue of the YBIG fanzine went online last night and can be viewed here for anyone interested: http://www.ybig.ie/ybig-issue-28.4.30.fanzine.html

The eligibility piece is on pages 13-14 of the online reader.

Probably one of the cheapest stunt that an unscrupulous rascal can pull, is to make public allegations of misconduct/impropriety which cannot be backed up, instead some sort of confidentiality is claimed.
Imagine if you had priests running around making all sorts of wild accusations, 'yeah of course it's true says the priest, but I can't reveal my sources'.
If a person can't provide the evidence, then he/she has to face public ridicule, especially when applied common sense takes a contrary position to the allegation.

In this particular case of Gary Mac, he does not directly accuse the FAI.
He slimed in with,
"You do wonder what pressure was brought to bear on young players and their families by some elements when deciding their international future"

For instance, he could have overheard such a wonderment being expressed out loud by any individual and decided that it was opportune to repeat it. And actually he does not add any substance to the wondering, except by innuendo.