Eligibility Rules, Okay

[tetsujin1979]

Up to the usual punditarena standards

[liamoo11]

Up to the usual punditarena standards

god it's getting worse.

[Olé Olé]

I would say that this is the problem with social media and the wider internet providing a forum for writers like that. But then the old traditional broadsheet that is the Indo has hardly exercised its editorial judgement to great degree recently either on this topic.

[samhaydenjr]

http://www.punditarena.com/football/nmenezes/fifteen-granny-rule-prospects-mick-mccarthy-recruit/ this State's that mcguane can still play for us despite playing for us and England competitively underage.That is incorrect isn't it? Also puts forward Sean Morrison again??!!

Yeah, had a look at the rule again and it's one switch full stop (as long as you haven't played a senior competitive international), not one switch at underage and another at senior level, as they seem to be saying. Really, what's the point of this? Most of these players either haven't shown interest or aren't playing at a high enough level to make it worth Mick's while considering them, especially given his timescales - that's why he's right to focus on Rice and, maybe Bamford - Crowley has submitted his paperwork so doesn't need to be persuaded, just monitored. I mean, consider the players we do have - there are 20 outfield places in the squad - if we hold on to Rice and Robinson gets his rumoured move to an EPL club in January, then we will have 16 outfield players in the Premier League (8 defenders, 5 midfielders, and 3 forwards, assuming we use Rice as a midfielder).

We also have two outfield players in The Championship with over 100 EPL appearances each and extensive international experience. That leaves just two outfield places available and, given the recent form of the likes of McGoldrick, Egan, Maguire (when fit), O'Dowda (ditto), Hourihane, Browne, Williams, Keogh, Lenihan and Stevens (who all have at least a cap or two under their belts), along with a number of prospects who are close to a breakthrough, I don't see why Mick should be even thinking about many of the players on this list. I would even question if Bamford should be in the squad, if he switches to us - I would have Long, Obafemi and Robinson for sure, with the final place probably going to McGoldrick

Also, I just want to note that the proportion of the Irish squad currently playing in the English top-flight currently is similar to the proportion in the squads of '90 and '94

[IsMiseSean]

Anyone know if the unionist lads in the north need an Irish passport to play rugby for Ireland?

[rellik]

Anyone know if the unionist lads in the north need an Irish passport to play rugby for Ireland?

Odd question. Why would they need an Irish passport? Does a Dubliner need an Irish passport to play for their country?

[paul_oshea]

I'm guessing the laws are much less stringent given lads can play after 3 year residency. No passport is required, its not a requirement John of IRB to have a passport to play for a country.

[Eirambler]

No they don't. And similarly the Kiwis and Saffers in the squad can play and don't ever need to get an Irish passport (although getting one might make travel easier for them).

[gastric]

I'm guessing the laws are much less stringent given lads can play after 3 year residency. No passport is required, its not a requirement John of IRB to have a passport to play for a country.
It's now 5 years which is the same as FIFA's residency rules.

[Fixer82]

But you do need a passport for international soccer don’t you?

There’s lads playing rugby for Ireland who I’m not sure even have Irish citizenship. Crazy!

[Olé Olé]

But you do need a passport for international soccer don’t you?

There’s lads playing rugby for Ireland who I’m not sure even have Irish citizenship. Crazy!

I am completely ignorant of the practicalities but I would guess that, in a lot of cases, by proving your granny is Irish and you are eligible for the passport and get it is the easiest way to prove eligibility. Having the actual passport is good proof.

[geysir]

I am completely ignorant of the practicalities but I would guess that, in a lot of cases, by proving your granny is Irish and you are eligible for the passport and get it is the easiest way to prove eligibility. Having the actual passport is good proof.
Having an Irish passport is no proof of eligibility for Ireland.
Eligibility is defined in the FIFA statutes. They (the statutes) are a good starting point to understand the criteria involved.

[Olé Olé]

Kenny spoke on the Eamon Dunphy podcast on this topic. I won't quote him word for word on but I'll give the gist of it. Stated that dual nationality is a complex area but that he thinks that if there was a more cohesive approach between underage and senior management in years gone by then Grealish and Rice would still be with us because they are dual Nationals that do identify with Ireland and the path wouldn't have been as long as transpired. Seemed to be open to fast-tracking.

Not sure if he's totally correct there. But it is important to balance his point with the fact that he is openly selecting the best under 17 players at under 21 level and he name-checked Bazunu and Parrott to demonstrate the point. I can see an Ireland squad under him that looks a bit like the Welsh squad i.e. the best young players born in the country or another, so for every Ben Woodburn you could have a Harry Wilson.

[Olé Olé]

Balls.ie summary:
https://www.balls.ie/football/stephen-kenny-eamon-dunphy-podcast-413879

[Olé Olé]

https://twitter.com/swearimnotpaul/status/1157179148982542336?s=19

Interview with Ryan seems to imply there have been some complications on his switch. Sweden are waiting in the wings and he is hedging his bets. We are his first choice so hopefully the FAI push it through.

[Diggs246]

https://twitter.com/swearimnotpaul/status/1157179148982542336?s=19

Interview with Ryan seems to imply there have been some complications on his switch. Sweden are waiting in the wings and he is hedging his bets. We are his first choice so hopefully the FAI push it through.

That looks very very bad imo. I would actually say he's gone

[Olé Olé]

Half full, half empty.

[livehead1]

That looks very very bad imo. I would actually say he's gone

Doesn't make any sense. There are countless examples of lads who have played for Ireland who have applied for a passport subsequent to playing underage for another country, usually England.

Nathan Redmond musn't be eligible for Ireland then so.

[Olé Olé]

Bayern prospect Johansson's eligibility for Ireland thrown into doubt https://the42.ie/4750723

I think this will be cleared up. I hope. We are biased towards assuming the worst in scenarios like this.

[irishfan86]

The article from the 42 certainly makes Johansson look better -- it says his first choice is still Ireland. It sounds like he's just hedging his bets with Sweden. In the circumstances I'd prefer if he just shut up and waited or even better pledged to fight this all the way to play for Ireland, but maybe a bit much to ask in the circumstances.

[Olé Olé]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bA6ODJYxYnY
Irish Football Fan TV have spoken to his mother and she says Ireland is his first choice, they just require FIFA clearance.

[IsMiseSean]

Doesn't make any sense. There are countless examples of lads who have played for Ireland who have applied for a passport subsequent to playing underage for another country, usually England.

Nathan Redmond musn't be eligible for Ireland then so.

Wouldn't Callum Robinson have been in the same boat as Johansson?
Robinson played underage for England and had to apply for an Irish passport to switch to us - so he wouldn't have had an Irish PP when playing for England.

[The Fly]

My grasp of the eligibility rules isn't as firm as it was, but I suspect we may miss out here. I think it hinges on whether his mother was born in Ireland or not. I thought she was, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Also, can someone clarify which Irish underage games Ryan played in?

[elatedscum]

I think there is a difference regarding acquirement of nationality as opposed to acquirement of citizenship. So, you can have a nationality by right without yet having acquired citizenship - but in order to acquire nationality, you need to be eligible for citizenship. Technically, the department of justice requires a person who qualifies through grand-parentage to be registered on the Foreign Births Register before they gain citizenship and therefore it's not a default nationality. So basically, because he wasn't yet registered on the foreign births register, he wasn't entitled to citizenship yet. So, it does seem that every English born player who wasn't registered in that way and had played a competitive game for a youth side wasn't technically eligible and their switch should have been rejected. However, it only came to light because the Luxembourg FA highlighted and queried the issue whereas The (English) FA didn't.

If this interpretation stuck, then there would be serious ramifications for us.

I suppose they have to argue that considering there are no circumstance where he would be denied citizenship, so he's no different to someone born to an irish born parent – and that the foreign births register is a bureaucratic step no different to any other in a citizenship process - but it's a total ****ing mess.

[elatedscum]

My grasp of the eligibility rules isn't as firm as it was, but I suspect we may miss out here.

I think it hinges on whether his mother was born in Ireland or not. I thought she was, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

As far as I'm aware Johansson's mother was born in England to Irish parents but raised in Ireland.

He played in an underage friendly, U19 as far as I remember. Anyone can play underage friendlies, literally there is no binding requirement regarding nationality or even age, they're essentially meaningless from a FIFA perspective. The nations themselves govern the criteria by which the players play

[Fizzer]

Looks like his ma has her heart set on him pulling on the green.I suspect she’ll get her way.Bit bizarre by Luxemburg, are they trying to get him to play for them under duress?

[Olé Olé]

My grasp of the eligibility rules isn't as firm as it was, but I suspect we may miss out here. I think it hinges on whether his mother was born in Ireland or not. I thought she was, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Also, can someone clarify which Irish underage games Ryan played in?

She wasn't. She was raised here though. Her parents were born here. I don't get why that makes a difference?

His mother has obtained some advice from a legal friend of hers, per the video I linked, and they reckon it will be fine. It's a hurdle. Once the FAI don't trip over the thing.

[Olé Olé]

And why does it matter if his mother was born here or not? She is probably eligible through her parents as well as through residency for an Irish passport. Why do these distinctions worry you?

[The Fly]

And why does it matter if his mother was born here or not? She is probably eligible through her parents as well as through residency for an Irish passport. Why do these distinctions worry you?

Because according to Ryan's father, his citizenship was acquired through his grandfather.

[Diggs246]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bA6ODJYxYnY
Irish Football Fan TV have spoken to his mother and she says Ireland is his first choice, they just require FIFA clearance.

Once he said "Ryan's father wants him to play for Ireland, we were in trouble there" his father is Swedish lads

TBH I think he has changed his mind and is playing off this so called "technical issue" with FIFA, of course he qualifies his grandparents are Irish like every second player we have.
Luxembourg have zero to gain by "ratting" on us, he will just play for Sweden if not us

[The Fly]

Once he said "Ryan's father wants him to play for Ireland, we were in trouble there" his father is Swedish lads

TBH I think he has changed his mind and is playing off this so called "technical issue" with FIFA, of course he qualifies his grandparents are Irish like every second player we have.
Luxembourg have zero to gain by "ratting" on us, he will just play for Sweden if not us

Don't rush to judgment Diggs. This isn't a Rice/Grealish type situation.

[Olé Olé]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/his-heart-is-with-ireland-150-per-cent-ryan-johansson-committed-as-fai-tackle-loophole-38369113.html

There is some right negative responses here. We are all scarred I suppose.

[Diggs246]

Don't rush to judgment Diggs. This isn't a Rice/Grealish type situation.

My God =, I hope Im wrong but its hard to get past this comment from Ryan

“However, I had a Swedish passport before I was 15. So, I would love to play for Sweden. It is one of the countries I come from, I have lots of relatives there. So ... I won't be sorry if I can't play for Ireland. It's a win-win for me.”

[Olé Olé]

My God =, I hope Im wrong but its hard to get past this comment from Ryan

“However, I had a Swedish passport before I was 15. So, I would love to play for Sweden. It is one of the countries I come from, I have lots of relatives there. So ... I won't be sorry if I can't play for Ireland. It's a win-win for me.”

He is speaking to a Swedish newspaper. He is lining up a fallback option. He has a parent from each and he has selected us. We clearly shade it. And it's understandable that Sweden is a good fallback for him.

[The Fly]

My God =, I hope Im wrong but its hard to get past this comment from Ryan

“However, I had a Swedish passport before I was 15. So, I would love to play for Sweden. It is one of the countries I come from, I have lots of relatives there. So ... I won't be sorry if I can't play for Ireland. It's a win-win for me.”

Yes, but this kid's national affinities are naturally diverse. After all he was born in Luxembourg, to an Irish mother (although born in England it seems) and a Swedish father.

And don't forget the most important point - he has already declared for Ireland.

[The Fly]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/his-heart-is-with-ireland-150-per-cent-ryan-johansson-committed-as-fai-tackle-loophole-38369113.html

There is some right negative responses here. We are all scarred I suppose.

It's all about the rules in this case.

Fingers crossed that something can be sorted out.

[Olé Olé]

Also, is it co-incidental that the lad himself has shed light on the complications whilst there is a buzz about his pre-season appearances for Bayern? The FAI are most certainly mobilised now to get this sorted.

[The Fly]

She wasn't. She was raised here though. Her parents were born here. I don't get why that makes a difference?


The difference is that if you were born outside Ireland and either of your parents was an Irish citizen who was born in Ireland, then you are automatically an Irish citizen.

However if you were born outside Ireland to an Irish citizen who was born outside Ireland, then you are entitled to become an Irish citizen. Your citizenship is therefore acquired and not automatic.

[Olé Olé]

I get that. I don't get it's impact on this. Plenty others have played underage for other sides before having to acquire citizenship to play for us.

[The Fly]

I get that. I don't get it's impact on this. Plenty others have played underage for other sides before having to acquire citizenship to play for us.

I'm not exactly sure. As I said previously my grasp of the eligibility rules isn't as firm as it was so I'd have to read up on them again.

Do we know for sure that those other players were registered on the Foreign Births Register after playing underage games for other sides? Also, where they competitive games or friendlies?

[The Fly]

Anyone know what happened to the formerly resident Danny Invincible?

He had the best grasp on these issues.

[tetsujin1979]

Anyone know what happened to the formerly resident Danny Invincible?

He had the best grasp on these issues.
Still available on Twitter: https://twitter.com/DanielCollins85?s=09

[elatedscum]

I'm not exactly sure. As I said previously my grasp of the eligibility rules isn't as firm as it was so I'd have to read up on them again.

Do we know for sure that those other players were registered on the Foreign Births Register after playing underage games for other sides? Also, where they competitive games or friendlies?

I genuinely believe this wasn't an issue because the FAI and the FA shared an interpretation of the rule and it wouldn't have been a problem except the Luxembourg FA made an issue out of it. If I were the FAI, I would be ensuring that every young player from Barry to Delap to Egan-Riley has an irish passport sorted now before they play U17 games - and whoever else is eligible that they know about. No point shutting doors on 16 year olds one way or another.

The likes of Crowley and Robinson are both guys who fall foul of this rule if they hadn't sorted out citizenship by U17 and if any of McGoldrick, O'Dowda, Christie or Westwood had received an u17, 19 or 21 call-up then they'd be in the same boat...

[liamoo11]

Once he said "Ryan's father wants him to play for Ireland, we were in trouble there" his father is Swedish lads

TBH I think he has changed his mind and is playing off this so called "technical issue" with FIFA, of course he qualifies his grandparents are Irish like every second player we have.
Luxembourg have zero to gain by "ratting" on us, he will just play for Sweden if not us

Even if he has changed his mind he will be stuck to us as he has submitted his change of allegiance isn't that the rule its once you submit the paperwork?

[Diggs246]

Even if he has changed his mind he will be stuck to us as he has submitted his change of allegiance isn't that the rule its once you submit the paperwork?

But the problem is he hasn't submitted it as he doesn't have to at this stage in his underage career.
As far as I know he is still eligible for us, Luxembourg and Sweden.

[Diggs246]

Anyone know what happened to the formerly resident Danny Invincible?

He had the best grasp on these issues.

Good point. Danny where are u?

[liamoo11]

But the problem is he hasn't submitted it as he doesn't have to at this stage in his underage career.
As far as I know he is still eligible for us, Luxembourg and Sweden.

But sure he must have submitted it how is their a problem otherwise how would fifa know he didn't have a passport if he did not send them the paperwork why would they be looking into it?

[The Fly]

Still available on Twitter: https://twitter.com/DanielCollins85?s=09

So foot.ie's former writer in residence is now resident on twitter.

[Diggs246]

So foot.ie's former writer in residence is now resident on twitter. ;)

Apparently he is anti-imperialist.
I wonder does he know obi wan kenobi

[Diggs246]

But sure he must have submitted it how is their a problem otherwise how would fifa know he didn't have a passport if he did not send them the paperwork why would they be looking into it?

Good point.