Eligibility Rules, Okay

[DannyInvincible]

Ryan's the player that the lesser MON claimed he wouldn't be surprised about if (the immoral, feckless, heathen sinners in the) FAI had been deviously trying to turn him. In fact he literally claimed he had to travel around England in secret in the hunt for eligible players, because the FAI would be tailing his moves and likely to snatch his targets as soon as his back was turned ;)
I gather one of the main moods in the IFA camp is still victimhood.

Are there public records of such statements? I'd be interested in reading those.


Re the IFA amended position you mention, it is in fact just an amended position, from stubborn antagonists towards acceptance of the CAS judgement, mainly because they have no other option but to accept that judgement. Maybe by their standards that could be seen as progressive, but I see their basic attitude is similar to what it was and is still a country mile from acceptance of the reality of social and ethnic equality in the 6 counties.
They were were quick to postpone the mildest of liberal moves, to ditch GSTQ, even when they had opportunity and an excuse. They have disempowered those fans who are ready and willing for change, and those fans want change not because of any great hope that nationalists will suddenly flock to WP, but because it's the thing to do, to ditch the trapping of a Brit identity being the default identity.

Hehe, I didn't quite go full hog and say it was progressive. I just described it as more progressive than their former position. If that's saying much though, I'm not sure...

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's not. And a decent summary by the Iceman in his second paragraph.
A gift that keeps giving.

[Olé Olé]

http://americansoccernow.com/articles/lynden-gooch-18-is-a-highlight-reel-sensation

This lad Lynden Gooch was called up to our under-19's last year, if my memory is correct. He's well settled with the US now.

I really wonder about Shane O'Neill. I'm very familiar with his background and the Irishness of it all- his dad even has an Irish pub in Colorado. I think if he makes the move to a PL club then the chances of him playing for Ireland will grow because he spent much of his summers in Ireland and being in England is likely to make the link stronger.

[DannyInvincible]

http://americansoccernow.com/articles/lynden-gooch-18-is-a-highlight-reel-sensation

This lad Lynden Gooch was called up to our under-19's last year, if my memory is correct. He's well settled with the US now.

Is he of the Gooch tribe from Kerry?

[geysir]

Are there public records of such statements? I'd be interested in reading those.
Did he say it directly? he might have but read the lines he has been quoted at and read the reported interpretation which is probably a widely believed attitude.

March 13 Grass isn't always greener (http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/northern-ireland-boss-michael-oneill-1761212) Bizzarely here he accuses the FAI of being immoral because they don't make false promises to players.

“To go to a player at 17 or 19, to change their allegiance without any promise of a full international career, it’s a moral issue. An 18 or 19-year-old that’s made that decision can find they have no route to being a senior international.

from this article (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/northern-ireland-manager-oneill-slams-football-association-of-ireland-in-eligibility-row-29126959.html) in the respectable Belfast Telegraph March 14 2013
The newspaper hypes up the paranoia/victimhood to fever pitch
Northern Ireland manager O'Neill slams Football Association of Ireland in eligibility row
the Northern Ireland manager believes that the those who run the game in the Republic of Ireland don't act morally when it comes to exploiting a Fifa loophole that allows them to select any player born on the island of Ireland.
The eligibility ruling has been a thorny issue for almost a decade, with the Irish FA being the victims of a one-way system that leaves every player available to O'Neill vulnerable to being poached by the Dublin vultures.
'Since his appointment as Northern Ireland boss 15 months ago O'Neill has scoured the UK and beyond in search of players with a Northern Ireland bloodline that might bolster his squad. He acts very secretively – he is forced to – because with Fifa declaring open season in Northern Ireland any player he comes up can be snatched away.
O'Neill's criticism of the FAI is a major deviation from the Irish FA's normally tepid stance. The party line is that the decision to switch international allegiance is a personal one and also one that has to be respected.'

here we have adirect quote about Michael O'Neill's own ignorance about ethnicity, nationality and FIFA's eligibility rules, directly promoting the sense of paranoia and victimhood.
May 26 The Hergled (http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/unfair-rules-on-eligibility-still-frustrating-oneill-despite-players-going-other-way-29128251.html)
"Any player who's eligible for us is eligible for the Republic and it's an unfair rule.
"If you have an English-born lad whose father is from Belfast, he's eligible to play for the Republic and it's not right," O'Neill told the Herald.
"It's not fair and we are the only country in world football that has to deal with this.
"If you were the manager of Denmark and you know that Sweden can just pick all your players, but you can't pick any of theirs, I don't think that would be tolerated, so how is it fair?"


Paranoid dig at FAI
Aug11 2013 BBC Sport (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/23655967) Ryan McLaughlin puts club before Northern Ireland

"I would not be surprised if he has been targeted in some way by the Republic of Ireland"

So as Michael O'Neill scouts around English clubs, driving in the dark of the night in order to, persuade, mollycoddle, love bomb, promise the earth to, intl prospects, no doubt due to his admitted levels of paraonia and victimhood, would lead him to believe he has to operate in secret, because the immoral FAI would be in like a flash because they have no scruples.

[DannyInvincible]

Crikey, I'd somehow managed to miss (or forget) some of those. Pretty damning. Any time I'd heard him speak on the issue upon taking the job as manager, he seemed reasonably enlightened and forward-thinking - happy to accept reality and take ownership of the situation - but maybe he's since been infected by that wretched paranoid bug due to more frequent exposure to IFA victimhood. I'll have to reformulate my opinion forthwith. The ignorant moaning quoted in the Herald in May of last year is especially surprising considering his own association shunned the unique compromise offered by FIFA to put the rules aside and keep the IFA quiet.

[Charlie Darwin]

I see there was no inclusion in the USA's World Cup squad for Shane O'Neill, so he'll remain eligible to play for us for the meantime at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3zuFy7XK-o

[DannyInvincible]

Sweet finish!

[Bungle]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2014/0529/620326-kop-kid-poised-for-northern-ireland-bow/

[ArdeeBhoy]

In a similar vein.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/mclaughlin-set-for-bow-30314097.html

Interesting comments on their Fbk page.

[Paddy Garcia]

Probably views it as an audition for us.

[DannyInvincible]

I know supporters will be paranoid about it...

Even their own players know their fans are paranoid!

I think it'd be very difficult for him personally to make a switch after those comments. He has more or less promised them his allegiance.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Saw that in the link, his loss...

[EalingGreen]

How strict is this policy? I know, for example, Sean Caffrey point-blank refused to get in touch with an obviously-interested Shane Duffy until Duffy first made the call to the FAI to formally declare interest, but didn't EG once claim that Brian Kerr had contacted Chris Baird years ago? Aren't the FAI OK about approaching players who've played for other associations at youth level though? Presumably, someone's recently spoken to England under-21 Harry Kane about the possibility of representing us if O'Neill has been keeping tabs on him. Why should the FAI treat the IFA with some special deference anyway? This is the organisation that brought the FAI and Daniel Kearns to court in order to try and deprive Irish players of the option of declaring for us. :rolleyes:Afternoon all!

Don't worry, I''ve not decided to declare for "foot.ie" again or anything(!), but when Googling for something else, it brought this Forum up, and searching further for the item, I noticed the above reference to me (in bold).

Anyhow to clarify, I'm pretty certain that some time after the event, Chris Baird disclosed that he had been approached by the FAI soon after he broke into the first team at Soton. Dunno if it was Kerr himself, but this would have been around May 2003 - a few months after Kerr took over the ROI Seniors.

And on the topic generally, Kieran McKenna (Spurs youngster) said the same in his local paper, though it wasn't more widely reported that I saw, and Shane Ferguson was definitely approached by Mick Martin to switch at the time he fell out with Nigel Worthington. (Many mistakenly assumed he had fallen out with NI/IFA).

Meanwhile, in a an article/profile on Paddy McCourt in the Irish Post of 08 February 2014 (never uploaded onto their website), journalist Garry Doyle noted the following:

... there are pockets of Derry where Celtic are hated but Paddy is loved, his allegiance to Northern ireland buying their loyalty. He could have gone elsewhere, having been courted by the Republic of Ireland in 2002, before he quietly rejected the FAI's advances and accepted the invitation from the then Northern Ireland manager, Sammy McIlroy, to join up with his squad for their April 2002 international against Spain.

Interestingly*, the article continues:

Seven years would pass before McCourt would win his second cap - and even though he received a bullet in the post from a Northern Ireland address when he was on Celtic's books - but he has no regrets about the country he chose to play for.
"Northern Ireland's fans have always been superb to me", he says. "And long may that continue. It is the way it should be, because we are playing for our country. People [in Derry] understand why I wanted to play for Northern Ireland. They know it's a sport, that people want to play international football. I play for Northern Ireland and love it. Fans respect that. It's football... [not politics]"

Incidentally, I also noticed the Daily Mail piece on Nigel Worthington and Paddy's fellow Derryman, James McClean.

Whilst it gave interesting background on NW's reasons for calling McClean up etc, it failed to note another aspect of the case.

Which is that McClean - who had played several times for the NI U-21's previously - actually accepted the Senior call-up when it came, as was reported, before then changing his mind 2 or 3 days before the game. (When NW called him up a couple of weeks before the game, there is no way he would have done so on the basis that the player was permitted to wait another 10 or 12 days before saying 'Yes' to the invitation.)

I don't know whether his late change of heart was because he suddenly realised that since the game in question was a World Cup qualifier (vs Faroes, I think), and so would tie him to NI, or because he had heard from the FAI in the meantime, now that they were alerted to the possibility of losing him. Possibly both?

Anyhow, considering his immeasurable quality of causing trouble wherever he goes, and whoever he meets, I don't care whether McClean turns out to be the "Derry Diego" - you're welcome to him!

Meanwhile, I am completely grateful that we got the "Derry Pele" instead.



* - Well to me, at least!

[DannyInvincible]

Wowzers, look who's (briefly?) pulled his head out of the sand!

How's about ye, EG? How come you never replied (http://foot.ie/threads/148706-Adam-Barton?p=1467996&viewfull=1#post1467996)? :(

[BonnieShels]

Wowzers, look who's (briefly?) pulled his head out of the sand!

How's about ye, EG? How come you never replied (http://foot.ie/threads/148706-Adam-Barton?p=1467996&viewfull=1#post1467996)? :(

Hard to believe it was 2011. Time flies eh...

[ifk101]

He could have gone elsewhere, having been courted by the Republic of Ireland in 2002, before he quietly rejected the FAI's advances and accepted the invitation from the then Northern Ireland manager, Sammy McIlroy, to join up with his squad for their April 2002 international against Spain.[/I]

To put this into perspective, McCourt received his first senior cap with NI as an 18 year old playing for Rochdale (a league 1/ league 2 team at the time, and he didn't receive his next cap until 7 years later .... ). His inclusion in the NI squad, a team ranked 91st in the World by FIFA in April 2002, was noted at the time as a "surprise". At the time of McCourt's first cap, Ireland, a team ranked 19th in the World, were preparing for a WC. But sure maybe the Republik were on the look out for a new left winger - Damien Duff was decidedly average at the time after all.

[third policeman]

Afternoon all!


Anyhow, considering his immeasurable quality of causing trouble wherever he goes, and whoever he meets, I don't care whether McClean turns out to be the "Derry Diego" - you're welcome to him!

Meanwhile, I am completely grateful that we got the "Derry Pele" instead.





Would this may the same "Derry Pele" about whom you said "Quite simply he is not fit enough or strong enough to play full-time professional football to a decent standard," on the Irish League thread of this forum?

[aidz1]

was sure mclaughlin was going to play for us. Pity.. Seamus playing the right back role must have frightened him off!!

[EalingGreen]

To put this into perspective, McCourt received his first senior cap with NI as an 18 year old playing for Rochdale (a league 1/ league 2 team at the time, and he didn't receive his next cap until 7 years later .... ). His inclusion in the NI squad, a team ranked 91st in the World by FIFA in April 2002, was noted at the time as a "surprise". At the time of McCourt's first cap, Ireland, a team ranked 19th in the World, were preparing for a WC. But sure maybe the Republik were on the look out for a new left winger - Damien Duff was decidedly average at the time after all.All very well, I'm sure, but did ROI not have an U-21 side in those days?

Or U-20's?

U-19's maybe?

(Oh and while Paddy can/has played on the Left, he's equally comfortable on the Right, or in the Centre.)

[EalingGreen]

Would this may the same "Derry Pele" about whom you said "Quite simply he is not fit enough or strong enough to play full-time professional football to a decent standard," on the Irish League thread of this forum?Yep, I said it at the time, and subsequent events look to have borne it out.

But that wasn't the point I was making, nor does it contradict it.

Which, in case you missed it, was that Paddy's comment rebuts the claims of those who say that the FAI doesn't make the first approach.

That's all, really.

P.S. Fit or unfit, I wouldn't swap one Paddy for two McCleans. Nor, I'm sure, would any other NI fan.

[EalingGreen]

was sure mclaughlin was going to play for us. Pity.. Seamus playing the right back role must have frightened him off!!Certainly possible (bold).

McLaughlin/Coleman is a much more valid comparison than ifk's McCourt/Duff (above).

[DannyInvincible]

P.S. Fit or unfit, I wouldn't swap one Paddy for two McCleans. Nor, I'm sure, would any other NI fan.

What a load of sour grapes.

[The Fly]

Welcome back EG.

[EalingGreen]

What a load of sour grapes.Not at all.

For considering McClean's capacity for causing trouble wherever he goes, I am genuinely relieved - pleased, even - that he didn't get tied to us.

Fwiw, I would say the same about eg George McCartney's premature retirement from playing for NI ("Good Riddance"), but not about eg Marc Wilson's decision not to play for NI.

Just as, I imagine, some/many ROI fans feel no loss over Stephen Ireland, fine player though he is.

In the end, NI will never "outskill" (yuck) other teams, therefore it is essential that we maintain a good spirit and sense of unity in our team.

Picking James McClean in the team would be like inviting the Ayatollah Khomeni to your Stag Do...

[EalingGreen]

Welcome back EG.Thank You Fly, but for reasons of Time and Inclination, I am determined to resist getting drawn back in. ;)

So "Toodle Pip" everybody. :bye:

[DeLorean]

He doesn't seem to have a history of falling out with teammates though does he? He just a bit thick when it comes to social media. He creates baggage for himself more than his team. I don't think ye've lost out on much though because overall he's a fairly average footballer, so far anyway. Jamie Ward, for one, is probably a more intelligent player although I haven't really seen him at international level.

[Eminence Grise]

Welcome back, EG, however briefly.

It's been so long, I thought for a fleeting moment somebody had used the foot.ie ouija board to make contact!

[Stuttgart88]

If EG is EG, what do we call EG?

[gastric]

It's great you're back EG! But how do you find the time to dissect posts like you do? Are you permanently attached to a laptop?

[TrapAPony]

E.G. Phone home

[DannyInvincible]

Not at all.

For considering McClean's capacity for causing trouble wherever he goes, I am genuinely relieved - pleased, even - that he didn't get tied to us.

I must admit that I've really missed your unique brand of bull, EG. :D

An awfully desirous fuss was made over someone who NI fans found to be beyond their reach and so they've since diminished their dissonance by criticising the allegedly-soured McClean and claiming they'd never have wanted to associate with his type anyway. That's textbook sour grapes.

Besides once speeding without a full driving licence (driving offences are quite common amongst footballers and young men generally), McClean has, to my knowledge, not fallen foul of any law nor has he had any run-ins with the authorities. He's an opinionated young fella who likes to publish his views on social media from time to time, but of what real "trouble" has he been the cause? You're not a poppy fascist who takes the likes of Gregory Campbell or Cody Lachey (completely) seriously, are you?

[ifk101]

You're right DI, James McClean is quite vocal but what of it? Does anyone, beyond those looking to be be offended, pay heed to the ramblings of a footballer just out of puberty? Paddy McCourt is a more gifted footballer than McClean but McClean is far superior when it comes to application. EG laments in the stating the obvious that the North will never outskill other teams, there's a need for a strong team and work ethic for the wee ones to keep the score down. Paddy McCourt doesn't fit the work ethic profile, McClean does. McClean's much more of a professional than McCourt, and professional footballers is what the North is in short supply of, so much so that they need to prey and poach on the senior internationals of other teams to make up the numbers.

[Stuttgart88]

McClean is an opinionated young fella who likes to publish his views on social media from time to time
Whereas EG is an opinionated old fella who likes to publish his views on social media from time to time. They're peas from a pod, though perhaps EG's final ball is better.

[Eminence Grise]

If EG is EG, what do we call EG?

Sir will do, though I'm not entirely sure for whom I'm answering.

[tetsujin1979]

If EG is EG, what do we call EG?
I used to think we needed EG more than EG, but now I think it's the other way around

[punkrocket]

Think you're overegging it a bit there boys

[Gather round]

there's a need for a strong team and work ethic for the wee ones to keep the score down

There sure is.

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz196/BillMcComish/football/tennis-score_zpse7346a45.jpg (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/BillMcComish/media/football/tennis-score_zpse7346a45.jpg.html)

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Are there really people sad enough to frequent a forum of a football team they don't support to whine about what national team an Irish person chooses to play for? What am I saying. Of course there is.

Build a bridge, support your own team and get a life ffs.

[BonnieShels]

Are there really people sad enough to frequent a forum of a football team they don't support to whine about what national team an Irish person chooses to play for? What am I saying. Of course there is.

Build a bridge, support your own team and get a life ffs.

Don't you know how Unionists work sir? Building bridges is hardly a skill that's possessed by most IFA supporters but you know, we have to deal with it. GR, EG and NB are good sorts. Sure there's delusion but that's par-for-the-course. Without delusion what will they be but mere people.

[Gather round]

Don't you know how Unionists work sir? Building bridges is hardly a skill that's possessed by most IFA supporters

http://cdn4.independent.ie/migration_catalog/article25380479.ece/e13df/ALTERNATES/h342/f1d105a9-974e-45cc-87a6-6166f0e436fb.jpg

Lazy, Bonnie. We in the blighted North are fully committed to Bridge building with you heathens, as per the above example at Omeath. Alas it was Louth County Council who pulled the plug through lack of cash.

[BonnieShels]

http://cdn4.independent.ie/migration_catalog/article25380479.ece/e13df/ALTERNATES/h342/f1d105a9-974e-45cc-87a6-6166f0e436fb.jpg

Lazy, Bonnie. We in the blighted North are fully committed to Bridge building with you heathens, as per the above example at Omeath. Alas it was Louth County Council who pulled the plug through lack of cash.

Ah now. Easy access to Omeath is hardly warranted. Go the long way 'round if ya really want to head to Carlingford.
Surely you could have swindled more cash from the block grant under some "peace" initiative?

In saying that, the local government fund was decimated by the commitment to us building the bit of the N2 that becomes the A5. Who says we never help out those in need. We really needed to get to Donegal quicker.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Clearly a slow day on the trolling front, based on our rotund acquaintance's 'contribution' ?

[Stuttgart88]

I thought I'd stick this here rather than in Other Sports

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-right-to-cast-net-wide-to-bring-on-board-players-such-as-ah-you-and-diack-1.1823821?page=1

I was at a talk with Jeff Probyn the other night and he singled out this issue. 3 years is way too little. Probyn suggests 8 years.

[geysir]

O'Gara meets Probyn's 8 and raises it by two.

[DannyInvincible]

I thought I'd stick this here rather than in Other Sports

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-right-to-cast-net-wide-to-bring-on-board-players-such-as-ah-you-and-diack-1.1823821?page=1

I was at a talk with Jeff Probyn the other night and he singled out this issue. 3 years is way too little. Probyn suggests 8 years.

I find it interesting that the possession of a particular nationality isn't a necessary prerequisite to representing an international rugby team. It would seem to go against the whole concept of international sport; that being competition between nationals of respective nations rather than competition between mere residents of respective states. Sure, residents can attain citizenship rights, but I'd like to think that attaining such formal recognition would be a requirement before any further stipulations could be considered.


Something sucks about IRB Regulation 8. Governing international eligibility, it stipulates a player may represent a country in three ways, namely by dint of birth, lineage through a parent or grandparent, and residency for a minimum of three years.

The second route has been abused in the past but latterly the three-year ruling has been freely tapped into as a form of a delayed international “signing” from abroad and, like it or loath it, Irish rugby is now merrily leading the charge.

In what way has the second route been abused?

[tetsujin1979]

In what way has the second route been abused?Might be talking about Michael Bent - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bent - qualified through his Irish born grandmother. His first arrival in the country was in October 2012, quickly followed by being awarded a passport, and then making his debut for the Ireland team. I think he might have only played for Leinster once or twice (if at all) before donning the green jersey

[Stuttgart88]

The IRFU definitely bent the rule there.

[osarusan]

Isaac Boss as well maybe.

[DannyInvincible]

Does he mean "utilised" or "exploited" then, rather than "abused"? Technically, utilising the rules as they are intended to function wouldn't constitute abuse or misuse. If he disagrees with the existence of a provision, that'd be a separate issue.