Eligibility Rules, Okay

[tetsujin1979]

And in Preston?

[tetsujin1979]

Darragh Burns in the process of switching allegiance from the north
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/old-school-burns-a-breath-of-fresh-air-40978407.html

[TonyD]

Darragh Burns in the process of switching allegiance from the north
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/old-school-burns-a-breath-of-fresh-air-40978407.html

Great news. He’s a serious talent, as he showed again on Friday night. Looking forward to seeing him in the Cup Final on the Aviva pitch. No reason why he can’t go on to become a senior international. Sadly that will probably only happen if he leaves Pats to go across the water. Just hoping we can hang onto him for a while longer.

[TonyD]

I think there have been quite a few 2nd generation players who have had a real affinity with Ireland starting with the likes of Shay Brennan and Charley Gallagher. Kilbane would be the outstanding example, but there are many more Walters, Aldridge, Sheedy, Carsley etc who were clearly not playing for us for opportunistic reasons. There have been a few mercenaries along the way too. The worrying thing is that we have missed out on so many 2nd G players of late for reasons that have more to with career prospects than identity or affinity. Playing for England has a massive income generating potential, and the prospect of almost automatic qualification for tournaments. It’s probably not a coincidence that we attracted more 2nd and 3rd G players when we had a better team and got to finals.

I wasn’t really doubting any of that, especially in the case of Kilbane. Always loved his attitude. For a lot of the others though, I imagine it was more of a good career move. And I’m not necessarily knocking that. Andy Townsend would be a prime example. No way was he champing at the bit to play for us, but when the chance came to play international football he said yes, and he always performed well in the green shirt. To be honest, if we are missing out on lads at the moment because we’re not doing so well, than I’m ok with that too. The likes of Rice and Grealish I have no problem waving on their way.

[Fixer82]

What’s the deal with Conor Gallagher? Is he eligible?

[ColourfulPeanut]

Rules are as clear as mud now but seemingly once you play a competitive game at any level after turning 21, then you're tied to that country. Gallagher has played for England 21s since turning 21 so would tie him down.

Not that it matters, he's a nailed on future England international and has no reason to change.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Covid reasons in TAS COULD help

[NeverFeltBetter]

Meanwhile, in other sports: https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/1124/1262904-players-to-switch-nations-after-landmark-rugby-motion/


The new regulation, which will come into effect from 1 January 2022, had been lobbied for in particular by the Pacific Rugby Players Welfare group in recent years.
It means that players can represent a second team in Test rugby, provided they have a blood connection to the country, and have not been capped in the previous three years.


Imagine if this was the rule in football. Who would we be after?

[third policeman]

Meanwhile, in other sports: https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/1124/1262904-players-to-switch-nations-after-landmark-rugby-motion/



Imagine if this was the rule in football. Who would we be after?

Maybe, Nathan Redmond. Genuinely can’t think of anyone else worth choosing. Cahill is no better than what we have at CB . I’d be surprised if either Maddison or Michael Keane get another cap, but we ‘d need to wait a year or two before they qualified.

[sadloserkid]

Jonjo Shelvey would have been worth a squad place at times.

[ColourfulPeanut]

Jonjo Shelvey would have been worth a squad place at times.
He'd walk into our team. For all his weaknesses, his range of passing is phenomenal. Keeping Jeff Hendrick out of the Newcastle team consistently

[liamoo11]

He'd walk into our team. For all his weaknesses, his range of passing is phenomenal. Keeping Jeff Hendrick out of the Newcastle team consistently

Remember we offered him the chance to come on board for the euros in 2012 to no avail.

[samhaydenjr]

Ryan Bertrand? Aaron Lennon?

[backstothewall]

The UTV are showing a documentary about the whole thing now, so expect a load of fuss over this in the next few days.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Mentioned it in the World Cup thread, but have been interested to follow along the case of Ecuador's Byron Castillo over the last few days. Chile claimed he was actually born in Colombia, so not eligible to represent Ecuador, Ecuador, up as far as their courts, disagreed: https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/will-a-birth-certificate-change-the-course-of-soccer-in-2022

FIFA rejected Chile's claim today, but it got me wondering: has their ever been a case where FIFA ruled on the citizenship status of a player in opposition to a court of law from the country concerned?

[geysir]

Mentioned it in the World Cup thread, but have been interested to follow along the case of Ecuador's Byron Castillo over the last few days. Chile claimed he was actually born in Colombia, so not eligible to represent Ecuador, Ecuador, up as far as their courts, disagreed: https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/will-a-birth-certificate-change-the-course-of-soccer-in-2022

FIFA rejected Chile's claim today, but it got me wondering: has their ever been a case where FIFA ruled on the citizenship status of a player in opposition to a court of law from the country concerned?

I didn't read in the article where the courts in Ecuador made a decision on the citizen status of Castillo, did I miss it?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Sorry, I got that from some Spanish language news sites, here's one example: https://www.google.com/amp/s/247newsagency.com/sports/141850.html%3famp

[geysir]

From reading the New Yorker article, basically Chile's case was that Castillo had faked his birth cert in order to be eligible to play for Ecuador and Chile's evidence for this had already been discredited. Deep echoes of desperate IFA shenanigans in that one :D . FIFA don't rule on citizenship, they rule on eligibility to play, citizenship papers are just a part of that.
There were various player nationality disputes in Africa around the the time of intl qualifiers some years ago when chief suspect Cape Verde were flying high (discussed in this thread) which might fit that scenario. At least one team were punished with a 3 nil defeat. But I'd say the FIFA rulings were more about eligibility factors rather than contradicting a State's judgement on citizenship status.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Mentioned it in the World Cup thread, but have been interested to follow along the case of Ecuador's Byron Castillo over the last few days. Chile claimed he was actually born in Colombia, so not eligible to represent Ecuador, Ecuador, up as far as their courts, disagreed: https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/will-a-birth-certificate-change-the-course-of-soccer-in-2022

FIFA rejected Chile's claim today, but it got me wondering: has their ever been a case where FIFA ruled on the citizenship status of a player in opposition to a court of law from the country concerned?

This is a story that isn't going away just yet, with Chile appealing on the grounds of a 2018 audio interview, conducted by the Ecuadorian football association, where the player in question appears to admit that his passport is fraudulant: https://www.football365.com/news/ecuador-face-world-cup-axe-bryan-castillo-fake-id-cover-up

Ruling due on Thursday. At this stage Chile might not even benefit: there would be an argument that Peru, knocked out in the Intercontinentals by Australia, should be allowed the place instead, as they would have qualified automatically if results where Castillo played were turned into 3-0 walkovers.

[osarusan]

has their ever been a case where FIFA ruled on the citizenship status of a player in opposition to a court of law from the country concerned?

FIFA don't reall rule on citizenship, more on elgibility (which is stricter than citizenship - you can be a citizen but still not be eligible), but you'd have to imagine that they'd not go against a court that had said X was not even a citizen of that country.

[NeverFeltBetter]

FIFA upholds the original decision: https://www.fifa.com/legal/media-releases/fifa-appeal-committee-passes-decision-on-eligibility-of-player-byron-david


...the player was to be considered as holding permanent Ecuadorian nationality in accordance with art. 5 par. 1 of the FIFA Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes.

I'm assuming they meant Article 15, part one of which reads:


Any person holding the nationality of a country is eligible to play forthe representative teams of the Association of his country. TheExecutive Committee shall decide on the conditions of eligibilityfor any Player who assumes a new nationality and for whom par. 3of this article does not apply, or for any Player who would, in principle, be eligible to play for the teams of more than one Associationdue to his nationality

I suppose the point here is that Castillo is, by Ecuadorian law, considered to have been an Ecuadorian citizen since birth, regardless of what has been said in any recording.

Chile are now going to CAS. Ecuador is due to open the World Cup in 65 days.

[tetsujin1979]

There's been a change in the eligibility rules for British clubs signing foreign players, outlined on the42 here
https://www.the42.ie/ireland-brexit-football-6093594-Jun2023/

[Olé Olé]

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/michael-oneill-im-open-to-calling-up-ronan-hale-to-ni-but-he-has-to-switch-from-republic-first/a1585952490.html

Michael O'Neill speaks publicly about Ronan Hale switching his allegiance from Ireland to NI.

[elatedscum]

Call him up, John O’Shea…

[tetsujin1979]

Off topic posts deleted.
The long-held policy of the forum is to refer to the national side as Ireland, unless clarification is needed, in which case "Republic of Ireland" is used.

[Predator]

A flurry of activity in the Eligibility Rules, Okay thread and I missed it. :(

Michael O'Neill openly talking about poaching players from his neighbouring association. Anyone have the number for CAS?

[EalingGreen]

A flurry of activity in the Eligibility Rules, Okay thread and I missed it. :(

Michael O'Neill openly talking about poaching players from his neighbouring association. Anyone have the number for CAS?It really is a shame you missed it, for you mightn't be so far from the mark in your comments.

Namely, after he was asked about Ronan Hale by some local journalist looking for an angle, he replied:
"I wouldn’t pick a player unless he had committed to do an international transfer. The fact is we could pick him and play him, but it wouldn’t really count for anything. I don’t think that would send the right message to the rest of the squad."

Damned funny way of "poaching", eh?

P.S. He hasn't even spoken to the player - it's up to the player to speak to him.

[Predator]

It really is a shame you missed it, for you mightn't be so far from the mark in your comments.

Namely, after he was asked about Ronan Hale by some local journalist looking for an angle, he replied:
"I wouldn’t pick a player unless he had committed to do an international transfer. The fact is we could pick him and play him, but it wouldn’t really count for anything. I don’t think that would send the right message to the rest of the squad."

Damned funny way of "poaching", eh?

P.S. He hasn't even spoken to the player - it's up to the player to speak to him.

You are quite correct. Of course, the entire concept of "poaching" in this context has always been absurd, since it has always been "up to the player" to make a decision. A player cannot be fished away from a pool against their will.

The term "poaching" was deployed back in the day to elicit an exaggerated sense of grievance and in an attempt to impress the perception that something grubby and underhanded was going on when players declared their intentions. Silly language.

By the way, I don't think Michael O'Neill would be so philosophical and evasive if Ronan Hale was playing at a higher level, nor should he be. Any coach worth their salt should always aim to maximise the talent available to them.

[Crosby87]

You mention salt and poaching, which makes me think of eggs.

[elatedscum]

Might be a better thread for this - but similar to Ronan Hale.

Stuff on Twitter about Kevin Zefi accepting a call up to Albania u21s. Could be a huge loss. He’s got so much potential but also so much work to do to get to what he could be…

Maybe a symptom of not having a senior manager for 7 months. Who’s charged with convincing him that he has a future with Ireland? Jim Crawford?

Maybe it’s a case of him knowing he’s not part of the 21s plans and not eligible for the 19s - so Albania have asked him to come train with the 21s and see what he thinks…

In that case, it probably goes down to not having a u20 team, which would be a perfect way to keep the 2004 and 2005 kids involved. Lots of them are going to be very important for us in the next campaign but not yet ready for 21s.

[Razors left peg]

Is the lad even playing football these days?

[elatedscum]

Is the lad even playing football these days?

Not really - has had 3 different injuries in the last 12 months. think he chose to go to Roma over Newcastle. Or at least Newcastle tried to sign both him and Cathal Heffernan and succeeded in signing just Heffernan, could obviously have been an issue with fee or sell on percentage or whatever as well. Rocco Vata is only playing in the lowlands league (and is rightly a shoe-in for the 21s squad)

Once again, if you've got a u20s team - there's a whole swathe of players doing good bad and indifferent but there's clearly enough talent that you want them kicking on with the underage sides.

Off the top of my head from 2005: Franco Umeh, Zefi, Heffernan, Caden McLoughlin, Justin Ferizaj, Conor Walsh, Ronnie McGrath, Thomas Bloxham, McMannus, Adam Murphy, Freddie Gibbard, Joe O'Brien-Whitmarsh, Alex Nolan and the 2004 kids like Owen Mason, Reece Byrne, Aaron Maguire, James Abankwah, Josh Seary, Jacob Slater, John Ryan, John Clarke, Cian Coleman, Ed McJannett, Harry Vaughan, Ronan Maher, Glory Nzingo, Dara McGuinness, Ben Quinn, Luke Pearce, Tommy Lonergan. Just a shame that those guys are probably gonna go 2-3 years without playing for Ireland when it would be easy to have a different solution...

[tetsujin1979]

I thought Zefi had played for our U21s, which would make him ineligible for Albania until the next campaign, but i can only find games up to U19 level for him

[JR89]

Yeah don't think he's ever gotten an U21s call up and wouldn't be surprised if the switch is something to do with that because he feels he's being overlooked as others have gotten called up before him.

There's no doubting the kids got talent but there's also a vibe of this lad thinks he's much better than what he is. Always was more impressed with Vata when both played for Ireland and while it's never nice if a player switches there's other younger players which also look as talented as he did at underage.

[Olé Olé]

Intersting to see Cead McGrath in the NI squad. Saw him play for us at u15 and u16 level

Majority of that side seem to have played Gaelic and/or attended a Catholic school or live in ROI.

McDonnell, McDonnell, McCann, Leacock, Gamble, Kerr, Atherton, O'Neill and maybe McGovern.

[liamoo11]

Majority of that side seem to have played Gaelic and/or attended a Catholic school or live in ROI.

McDonnell, McDonnell, McCann, Leacock, Gamble, Kerr, Atherton, O'Neill and maybe McGovern.

I thought this short interview was thought provoking for us traditional republican s https://www.arsenal.com/news/young-gun-ceadach-oneill , devout Catholic playing for linfield while playing gaelic utterly proud to represent N.I

[Olé Olé]

I thought this short interview was thought provoking for us traditional republican s https://www.arsenal.com/news/young-gun-ceadach-oneill , devout Catholic playing for linfield while playing gaelic utterly proud to represent N.I

That's interesting. I'm sure it is the case for most of the lads in that squad from similar backgrounds. They simply identify more closely with NI than ROI. Probably see themselves as Irish and Northern Irish and the latter is more localized and familiar to them than the alternative.

[EalingGreen]

I'm sure it is the case for most of the lads in that squad from similar backgrounds. They simply identify more closely with NI than ROI. Probably see themselves as Irish and Northern Irish and the latter is more localized and familiar to them than the alternative.Indeed.

If you look at Rugby for instance, NI Unionists are able to separate their sporting interests from their personal politics and go to Lansdowne to cheer on Ireland, tricolours, Soldiers Song and all. So why should NI Nationalists* be that much different when it comes to their own sporting interests?

And seeing as though they haven't lived through 30 years of The Troubles, I would guess that this ability to keep the two separate is even more prevalent amongst the younger generation, thereby offering hope for all of us, Nationalist, Unionist, North or South.


* - Daithi McCallion (Derry City/Finn Harps/Ballymena) is an interesting example. He's happily represented NI at under-age levels, while also being the son of Elisha, ex-Sinn Fein MP and Senator etc and nephew of Martina Anderson (SF/IRA etc).

[tetsujin1979]

Comrades all, you might say.

[Eirambler]

Might as well just reunify then!

[elatedscum]

Might as well just reunify then!

We’d certainly have a better chance of having a meaningful tournament once in a while

[nigel-harps1954]

Intersting to see Cead McGrath in the NI squad. Saw him play for us at u15 and u16 level

Goes to school in Omagh. Came through underage setup at Finn Harps initially before deciding to play for Sligo. Left them halfway through the season to sign for Derry and has largely played under-20s there. Potential to be a decent player but another who lets others make his choices for him. Don't see him being anything more than a decent LOI centre half.

[nigel-harps1954]

* - Daithi McCallion (Derry City/Finn Harps/Ballymena) is an interesting example. He's happily represented NI at under-age levels, while also being the son of Elisha, ex-Sinn Fein MP and Senator etc and nephew of Martina Anderson (SF/IRA etc).


Makes no apologies for it either. A great lad with a super attitude.

[EalingGreen]

Might as well just reunify then!
If you're prepared to admit your original mistake back in the day and ask to be re-admitted to the IFA - "Original and (George) Best" - we might consider it.

But you'd have to ask nicely.

And prepare to be disappointed. :cool:

[samhaydenjr]

We’d certainly have a better chance of having a meaningful tournament once in a while

Yes, Conor Bradley would fix all our problems

[elatedscum]

Yes, Conor Bradley would fix all our problems

He’d fix one problem anyway

[EalingGreen]

He’d fix one problem anyway
https://i.imgflip.com/98iomn.jpg

[Eirambler]

If you're prepared to admit your original mistake back in the day and ask to be re-admitted to the IFA - "Original and (George) Best" - we might consider it.

But you'd have to ask nicely.

And prepare to be disappointed. :cool:


Nah, but we'd play the odd friendly at Windsor to keep you sweet. Maybe a women's game or two as well. Similar to the IRFU and Ravenhill!

[EalingGreen]

Nah, but we'd play the odd friendly at Windsor to keep you sweet. Maybe a women's game or two as well. Similar to the IRFU and Ravenhill!In your dreams.

Anyhow, what is it with you lot? Surely the whole thing about being a supporter [sic] is that you support your team through thick and thin? Or thin and thinner, as is often the case with OWC. Or are you really so fickle that after a few defeats*, you want to scrap your team and follow some other makey-uppy effort?

I mean, with Bohs going through a hard time just now, is anyone suggesting they merge eg with Shams? Or Dundalk with Drogs?

Anyhow, as far as we're concerned, being a fan is summed up by our favourite song: "We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland, but it's all the same to me!"


* - Funny how we never hear any of this unity talk after you've strung together a few wins. Embarrassing.

[seanfhear]

In your dreams.

Anyhow, what is it with you lot? Surely the whole thing about being a supporter [sic] is that you support your team through thick and thin? Or thin and thinner, as is often the case with OWC. Or are you really so fickle that after a few defeats*, you want to scrap your team and follow some other makey-uppy effort?

I mean, with Bohs going through a hard time just now, is anyone suggesting they merge eg with Shams? Or Dundalk with Drogs?

Anyhow, as far as we're concerned, being a fan is summed up by our favourite song: "We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland, but it's all the same to me!"


* - Funny how we never hear any of this unity talk after you've strung together a few wins. Embarrassing.
" So, you're saying there's a chance "