Eligibility Rules, Okay [Archive] - Page 96

BonnieShels

04/01/2013, 1:32 PM

I think it was more a case of him saying something honest than saying something stupid, although he does appear to now regret having said what he did. He expressed that he felt more British than Irish - presumably, he still feels that way - and, whilst he may represent Ireland and play under the tricolour on occasion (golf officially being an all-island sport), it's quite clear how he identifies personally - prior to recent airbrushing, his website was headed by 'Ulster Banners' - so, whatever about being "more than just a flag", I don't really see validity in his alleged personal dilemma, unless he fears some negative commercial lash-back. I think he should be honest, be done with it and declare for Team GB if that's where his heart lies. I'd genuinely have more respect for him if he ceased the nauseous charade of disingenuous fence-sitting.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

By saying something honest he was saying something stupid. They are not exclusive.

Either way, I wouldn't give a rats ass (thanks Sulli), simply because golf is a load of tosh and whether he's playing for GB or Ireland it'll make no difference to me.

Now can someone think of the hockey!

Yeah, as much as I sympathise with him, he should have the courage of his convictions. This trying not to alienate anybody nonsense is tiring, although admittedly the Irish media have pursued it to an embarrassing degree.

It's not that embarassing considering the twists they get themselves into when discussing eligibility for soccer.

Not Brazil

04/01/2013, 1:41 PM

whilst he may represent Ireland and play under the tricolour on occasion (golf officially being an all-island sport)

I don't think the representative flag of the GUI is the Tricolour.

I'm 100% sure that the Tricolour is not the representative flag of the island of Ireland.

DannyInvincible

04/01/2013, 1:56 PM

I don't think the representative flag of the GUI is the Tricolour.

I'm 100% sure that the Tricolour is not the representative flag of the island of Ireland.

I'm not sure myself, although you could well be right; their logo features the Four Provinces Flag:

http://www.golfblogger.co.uk/data/post_pics/2009/08/19-8e38314d4cf8-medium.jpg

Who was he representing here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_World_Cup_(men's_golf)) though?:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-d_Fqdg7QwB8/UE8clrD2hII/AAAAAAAAOtI/Qdt7wbe1QwE/s400/Rory+McIlroy+Graeme+McDowell+Getty.jpg

BonnieShels

04/01/2013, 2:09 PM

Ireland.

I'm sure the lads at Mission Hills didn't know anything about the "offence" they were causing. Nor were they likely to care.

Can we just start using the Saltire or Provinces Flag for situations where we are a unified nation and be done with it.

osarusan

04/01/2013, 2:52 PM

Either way, I wouldn't give a rats ass (thanks Sulli), simply because golf is a load of tosh and whether he's playing for GB or Ireland it'll make no difference to me.

Pretty silly of you to be posting on the topic at all then, would you say?

BonnieShels

04/01/2013, 3:04 PM

How so?

These are discussions about eligibility.

It's his whinging over his declaration which is annoying me. His eligibility for Ireland and Britain is what is of interest here. As is normal with this thread it may have gone off on another tangent.

osarusan

04/01/2013, 3:11 PM

BonnieShels

04/01/2013, 3:19 PM

He's obviously eligible for both. It's his preferred identity that may be of interest, but not to you, according to you.

You don't seem to care what he does, and as you think golf is a load of crap, I'm just wondering why you've posted as much, and as vehemently, as you have.

Well initially I had to defend from the "onslaught" from Gastric. So that took a while.

I also clarified a few things with Danny and agreed with Charlie.
Plus there was flag chat.

Fixer82

04/01/2013, 3:51 PM

I don't think the representative flag of the GUI is the Tricolour.

I'm 100% sure that the Tricolour is not the representative flag of the island of Ireland.

Shame you think that way because....Green = Us, White = Peace and Orange = You.
I think it sums up the vision for the future of the island pretty well

Not Brazil

04/01/2013, 3:53 PM

Who was he representing here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_World_Cup_(men's_golf)) though?:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-d_Fqdg7QwB8/UE8clrD2hII/AAAAAAAAOtI/Qdt7wbe1QwE/s400/Rory+McIlroy+Graeme+McDowell+Getty.jpg

The island of Ireland?

If so, the sole use of the Tricolour is wholly inappropriate.

Northern Ireland should have it's own team in the Golf World Cup.

peadar1987

04/01/2013, 4:15 PM

Shame you think that way because....Green = Us, White = Peace and Orange = You.
I think it sums up the vision for the future of the island pretty well

It really annoys me that a flag with such a worthwhile significance has been hijacked by people who are completely opposed to peaceful coexistence with the orange third of the tricolour. The flag shouldn't be divisive, muppets have made it so.

Not Brazil

04/01/2013, 4:43 PM

Shame you think that way because....Green = Us, White = Peace and Orange = You.
I think it sums up the vision for the future of the island pretty well

It's not a case of "thinking that way" - it is a basic fact that the Tricolour does not represent the island of Ireland.

The Tricolour does not, and never will, represent me in any way, shape or form.

liamoo11

04/01/2013, 5:06 PM

It's not a case of "thinking that way" - it is a basic fact that the Tricolour does not represent the island of Ireland.

The Tricolour does not, and never will, represent me in any way, shape or form.

Not to worry we still embrace you as one of our brothers. The whole partitioning a country hasnt really worked so well for anyone in the last 90 years so hopefully things will be much better for everyone when the island dispenses with the artificial divide and we all get back together again.

DannyInvincible

04/01/2013, 5:10 PM

The island of Ireland?

If so, the sole use of the Tricolour is wholly inappropriate.

I'm not disagreeing with you. That's why I was intrigued as to who he was representing. Was it the GUI? I don't understand why he and McDowell would have entered under the tricolour if entry to the competition was independent of some national governing body.

Not Brazil

04/01/2013, 5:17 PM

Not to worry we still embrace you as one of our brothers. The whole partitioning a country hasnt really worked so well for anyone in the last 90 years so hopefully things will be much better for everyone when the island dispenses with the artificial divide and we all get back together again.

That's very kind of you - but I am not one of your "brothers"...more of a neighbour.

We've never been "together" under a Tricolour and I don't believe we ever will be.

liamoo11

04/01/2013, 5:52 PM

That's very kind of you - but I am not one of your "brothers"...more of a neighbour.

We've never been "together" under a Tricolour and I don't believe we ever will be.

We have always been together thankfully sure isnt big/little willie bringing a bus load down to dublin next weekend to see parliment

DannyInvincible

04/01/2013, 6:11 PM

We have always been together thankfully sure isnt big/little willie bringing a bus load down to dublin next weekend to see parliment

Another day out for Willie in the capital. ;)

dantheman

04/01/2013, 7:39 PM

It's not a case of "thinking that way" - it is a basic fact that the Tricolour does not represent the island of Ireland.

The Tricolour does not, and never will, represent me in any way, shape or form.

Agree completely. The 4 provinces flag and Irelands Call (or a better one!) for All-Island teams is a no brainer.

Especially in rugby, why the 4 provinces flag isn't used is beyond me

Not Brazil

04/01/2013, 8:39 PM

isnt big/little willie bringing a bus load down to dublin next weekend to see parliment

Hopefully, he'll enjoy the hospitality so much that he'll stay down there permanently.

Charlie Darwin

04/01/2013, 8:39 PM

The island of Ireland?

If so, the sole use of the Tricolour is wholly inappropriate.

Northern Ireland should have it's own team in the Golf World Cup.
You'd need your own golf council with its own funding then.

Lest Northern Ireland be accused of making use of the GUI's training and resources only to pinch players for its own team :)

Not Brazil

04/01/2013, 8:42 PM

You'd need your own golf council with its own funding then.

Not neccessarily.

Charlie Darwin

04/01/2013, 8:50 PM

How would NI (or ROI) enter a team without a union?

born2bwild

04/01/2013, 9:05 PM

We can debate Wozza in Totty thread.

I would love to face his "dilemma".

The issue only arose because he brought it up and said something stupid. He has spent the time since then making cack-handed retractions and statements.
Is there a Totty thread on this website??? Might come here more often, so.

gastric

05/01/2013, 4:56 AM

Is there a Totty thread on this website??? Might come here more often, so.

Bonnie is flabbergasted by some of my comments on this thread, wait till he sees what I have to say on the Totty thread!

A commentary on Rory's predicament from today's Indo.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/mcguigan-could-teach-mcilroy-about-being-in-a-difficult-place-3342914.html

geysir

05/01/2013, 9:34 AM

Agree completely. The 4 provinces flag and Irelands Call (or a better one!) for All-Island teams is a no brainer.

Especially in rugby, why the 4 provinces flag isn't used is beyond me

You mean this flag which is the official flag of the IRFU and flown at all intl games?
IRFU 4 provinces flag (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/IRFU_Provinces_Flag.jpg)

DannyInvincible

05/01/2013, 11:46 AM

You'd need your own golf council with its own funding then.

Lest Northern Ireland be accused of making use of the GUI's training and resources only to pinch players for its own team :)

If the island of Ireland Golf World Cup team can enter under the tricolour, what, in theory, would stop them from entering under, say, the 'Ulster Banner'?

Charlie Darwin

05/01/2013, 12:16 PM

If the island of Ireland Golf World Cup team can enter under the tricolour, what, in theory, would stop them from entering under, say, the 'Ulster Banner'?
I don't know if they do enter under the tricolour or if it's just used by organisers for ease of purpose. The picture you posted seems to be from the Walker Cup, which would make a bit more sense why they'd use a tricolour as opposed to the golfing union's flag.

Not Brazil

05/01/2013, 12:33 PM

The picture you posted seems to be from the Walker Cup

Definately not from the Walker Cup.

Rory and GMac never played in the same team at the Walker Cup. Rory played Walker Cup in 2007 at Royal County Down and GMac played in 2001 at Sea Island, Georgia.

Not Brazil

05/01/2013, 12:34 PM

How would NI (or ROI) enter a team without a union?

Both could enter a team with the blessing of the GUI.

Charlie Darwin

05/01/2013, 12:40 PM

Definately not from the Walker Cup.

Rory and GMac never played in the same team at the Walker Cup. Rory played Walker Cup in 2007 at Royal County Down and GMac played in 2001 at Sea Island, Georgia.
You're right, it is the World Cup. Odd that GUI would enter under that banner.

Both could enter a team with the blessing of the GUI.
What's in it for them? And what's in it for the World Cup organisers? And other countries? If people felt that strongly about there being two golfing teams on the island they'd push for two unions.

BonnieShels

05/01/2013, 6:54 PM

Bonnie is flabbergasted by some of my comments on this thread, wait till he sees what I have to say on the Totty thread!

A commentary on Rory's predicament from today's Indo.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/mcguigan-could-teach-mcilroy-about-being-in-a-difficult-place-3342914.html

It is precisely the thoughts of McGuigan that made me so angry at Rory.

Ya dig now?

Also... where's your comments on the totty thread. I demand satisfaction now!

You mean this flag which is the official flag of the IRFU and flown at all intl games?
IRFU 4 provinces flag (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/IRFU_Provinces_Flag.jpg)

That is not the four provinces flag. That's a bast@rdisation of it.

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Four_Provinces_Flag.svg) is the flag that should be used in all contentious sitchyashuns.

Pretty inoffensive to all and one I would be proud to stand beside.

peadar1987

06/01/2013, 2:03 AM

Let's forget about the flag and focus on the fact that "Ireland's Call" is utterly rubbish and horrible, and if your soul doesn't die a little when that key change comes along, you are probably an evil person who drowns kittens and supports Sporting Fingal.

geysir

06/01/2013, 12:30 PM

That is not the four provinces flag.
I think I called it correctly, the 'IRFU 4 provinces flag'.

That's a bast@rdisation of it. This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Four_Provinces_Flag.svg) is the flag that should be used in all contentious sitchyashuns.
Pretty inoffensive to all and one I would be proud to stand beside.
There is little hope for any compromise on any issue if the IRFU's 4 provinces flag is regarded with such intolerance

DannyInvincible

06/01/2013, 1:35 PM

You're right, it is the World Cup. Odd that GUI would enter under that banner.

That's assuming they entered under the auspices of the GUI. Are the GUI affiliated to the organisation that sanctions the Golf World Cup? The International Federation of PGA Tours organise it, but the GUI is affiliated to the R&A, the global governing body except in the US and Mexico. The R&A doesn't appear to have anything to do with the World Cup. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Royal_and_Ancient_Golf_Club_of_St_Andrews#Cham pionships)

The photo was definitely from the 2011 World Cup in Hainan, by the way.

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Four_Provinces_Flag.svg) is the flag that should be used in all contentious sitchyashuns.

Pretty inoffensive to all and one I would be proud to stand beside.

Is the Four Provinces Flag uncontentious though? I had always thought unionists viewed it as possessing republican connotations, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

CAIN (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/symbols/flags.htm) states of the flag:

This flag represents the four provinces of Ireland. Ulster is represented by the red and yellow nine counties flag. Munster is represented by three crowns on a blue background. Connaught has an eagle and an arm holding a knife, while Leinster is shown with a harp on a green background. The flag is almost exclusively used by Nationalists and Republicans.

The final sentence makes sense given what the flag represents, but are unionists entirely comfortable with it?

Gather round

06/01/2013, 2:32 PM

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz196/BillMcComish/us.jpg

A nice flag for the various districts of your country, ditto our country, all in a funny-shaped ball design. Surely a banner for all egg-chasing fans to unite around?

Charlie Darwin

06/01/2013, 2:38 PM

I wouldn't put it past authorities in this country to design an oval-shaped flag in MS Paint.

ArdeeBhoy

06/01/2013, 5:45 PM

The island of Ireland?

You know? The geographical entity. As once colonized by the British...

If so, the sole use of the Tricolour is wholly inappropriate.
Why?

Northern Ireland should have it's own team in the Golf World Cup.
"its"
And only one small problem with this 'scenario'...
;)

It's not a case of "thinking that way" - it is a basic fact that the Tricolour does not represent the island of Ireland.

The Tricolour does not, and never will, represent me in any way, shape or form.

Except it does. You just happen to disagree.

We've never been "together" under a Tricolour and I don't believe we ever will be.
You have a crystal ball that says "Never", for infinity ?

And what happens when there's a united Ireland...

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz196/BillMcComish/us.jpg

A nice flag for the various districts of your country, ditto our country, all in a funny-shaped ball design. Surely a banner for all egg-chasing fans to unite around?

Except it incorporates the bast*rdized 'Red Hand' flag. Try it with the St.Patrick's Cross instead...

ArdeeBhoy

06/01/2013, 5:47 PM

It really annoys me that a flag with such a worthwhile significance has been hijacked by people who are completely opposed to peaceful coexistence with the orange third of the tricolour. The flag shouldn't be divisive, muppets have made it so.

Except it's been hijacked by paranoia on both sides...

The 4 provinces flag and Irelands Call (or a better one!) for All-Island teams is a no brainer.

Especially in rugby, why the 4 provinces flag isn't used is beyond me

This.

ArdeeBhoy

06/01/2013, 7:30 PM

We have always been together thankfully sure isnt big/little willie bringing a bus load down to dublin next weekend to see parliment

Aye. It would seem his efforts are being rather ridiculed...

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/loyalist-flag-protesters-to-target-oireachtas-tricolour-in-dublin-16255998.html

and

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/gardai-to-assess-loyalist-plan-to-bring-flag-protest-to-republic-of-ireland-16257876.html

Olé Olé

06/01/2013, 8:14 PM

Quick question here folks. Just noticed that Will Keane's hype has seemingly died down, given that it was rather significant last year. On the other hand, Michael's profile has raised, coinciding with his switch of international allegiance to the country of his birth from the country of his father's.

Anyway, I bet this has been clarified further back in the thread but I can't find it. Can Michael Keane not now represent Ireland because he has used up his one switch, whereas Will can indeed play for Ireland, so long as he doesn't make a senior competitive appearance for England?

DannyInvincible

06/01/2013, 8:24 PM

Olé Olé

06/01/2013, 8:37 PM

If Michael played competitively for the FAI and then player competitively for the FA (at any level), my understanding is that that would constitute using up his switch. I don't know if his appearances for either were in competitive fixtures, however.

You're correct about Will; he can still switch to the FAI so long as he doesn't represent the FA in a senior competitive fixture.

He made quite a few appearances for Ireland, so I'd hazard a guess that one of them was competitive.

It will be interesting to see if Will ends up playing for Ireland. If he fails to make the grade at Manchester United and moves on to a Championship or lesser PL side, then I could envisage him taking the opportunity of playing for Ireland, given that playing for England at senior level will be less of a likelihood. I'm merely speculating, but they are an interesting set of twins from an allegiance perspective.

Not Brazil

06/01/2013, 9:52 PM

Except it does. You just happen to disagree.

No, it doesn't.

The Tricolour, as you well know, represents the Republic Of Ireland (styling itself "Ireland").

The Republic Of Ireland, as you well know, does not encompass the whole island (you know, the geographical entity) of Ireland.

Therefore, de facto, the Tricolour does not represent the island of Ireland.

You may disagree with these facts, but it makes them no less true :D

It is therefore wholly inappropriate for the Tricolour to solely represent any all island sporting body.

DannyInvincible

06/01/2013, 10:05 PM

He made quite a few appearances for Ireland, so I'd hazard a guess that one of them was competitive.

He played for us at under-17, under-18 and under-19 level, so I would imagine the same although can't find solid confirmation that any of the fixtures in which he played were competitive. According to Wiki, he's played five times for England at under-19 level, but not sure if any of those were competitive games either. He'd have to have played competitively for both associations in order to have effected a switch. If he's played for only one competitively as of yet - or neither, of course - the option of switching once would still be open to him.

DannyInvincible

06/01/2013, 10:11 PM

No, it doesn't.

The Tricolour, as you well know, represents the Republic Of Ireland (styling itself "Ireland").

The Republic Of Ireland, as you well know, does not encompass the whole island (you know, the geographical entity) of Ireland.

Therefore, de facto, the Tricolour does not represent the island of Ireland.

You may disagree with these facts, but it makes them no less true :D

It is therefore wholly inappropriate for the Tricolour to solely represent any all island sporting body.

Article 7 of Bunreacht na hÉireann outlines that the tricolour is the "national flag", which leaves things somewhat ambiguous as to what it officially represents. Ireland the state might end at the border but that's not to say the nation does. ;)

Not Brazil

06/01/2013, 10:18 PM

Article 7 of Bunreacht na hÉireann outlines that the tricolour is the "national flag". Ireland the state might end at the border but that's not to say the nation does. ;)

Nice twist DI...it will probably make AB feel a wee bit better about the truth of the matter.:D

Two Nations share this lovely island of Ireland.

ArdeeBhoy

06/01/2013, 10:59 PM

You mean one country. Just.

And part of another country, which doesn't really care in the main about the six counties they foolishly decided to leave colonized...
Please remember bar the odd sports team, the North never will or could be a 'country'.
It's even more economically unviable than the other 26 counties on the island...
;)

As for the flag issue, thought you 'weren't responding to my posts' ?

But if the founding fathers of modern Ireland deemed it to represent the flag of the whole island, that's good enough for me.
Especially when a third of it represents your community...

:rolleyes:

Not Brazil

06/01/2013, 11:17 PM

But if the founding fathers of modern Ireland deemed it to represent the flag of the whole island, that's good enough for me.
Especially when a third of it represents your community...

Trust me AB, the Tricolour of the Republic of Ireland does not represent many in "my" community.

Those well intended "forefathers" got it wrong.

Are you making it over to Doire for any of the United Kingdom City Of Culture celebrations this year...or are you just staying put on the Mainland?

ArdeeBhoy

06/01/2013, 11:25 PM

Fair enough. It's that community's right to disagree or misguidedly reject it.
But even the most stubborn unionist/loyalist should realise the significance of part of that flag.

As for Doire, my priorities remain elsewhere. Though I do know an enlightened Coleraine fan and hope to pay a visit to there and the Brandywell at some point...

Not Brazil

06/01/2013, 11:32 PM

Fair enough. It's that community's right to disagree or misguidedly reject it.
But even the most stubborn unionist/loyalist should realise the significance of part of that flag.

Yes, well intended indeed.

Sadly, some militant Republicans forgot the "significance" of "part of that flag".

Anyway, great to hear that you intend to visit the United Kingdom City Of Culture this year. Enjoy.