Eligibility Rules, Okay [Archive] - Page 108

Charlie Darwin

03/06/2013, 8:00 PM

I see Billy Hamiliton has moved on......... from the Befast Telegraph today

'The other problem we have is the North/South issue.

I have no problem whatsoever if a young boy from a nationalist area wants to declare for the Republic, but some of these boys are being brought up through our system – it's like taking a nice piece of fruit, where they come along and say, 'this is ripe for the picking.'

If they want to take a player who has come through the IFA ranks, they should have to pay a compensation fee of somewhere between, say, half a million and a million pounds a player.

If they had to make that payment when they capped the player, it would make them think twice about whether he was worth it.

I know it's a thorny issue, but everyone would benefit.

The Republic would get a promising player, and we would get money that could be put back into the IFA to develop and coach more young players.

If I were involved in the IFA I wouldn't give up on this and would be lobbying Fifa about it.

In terms of the manager Michael O'Neill, I know results haven't gone his way, but I actually think he is doing a good job with the players he has at his disposal.'
Good grief, how much money does he think there is in international football? He also seems to be under the impression that pounds is the currency of European football. How cute.

Mr_Parker

03/06/2013, 8:24 PM

A slight update.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22760647

The radio interview in full is 37 mins in. Think O'Neill speaks well on the topic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b022b0t2

BonnieShels

03/06/2013, 9:35 PM

That's evidence of the power of a broadside from Bonnie, touched with a 'hint' of a germanic reprimand.

I try.

I'm liking the acceptance that he could've picked England as well.

DannyInvincible

03/06/2013, 9:42 PM

Just on that option, I wonder if the level of animosity normally reserved for FAI-bound defectors is being similarly directed towards turn-coat Jones...

gastric

03/06/2013, 10:24 PM

Jones isn't interested in declaring for us. He has his sights set on playing for England.

I don't believe I indicated he was interested in us, just that the attachment shows his eligilbility to play for us. Out of interest, have you got a link about his desire to play for England, Danny?

Using Hamiliton's logic, could we charge the IFA 10 million sterling for our sacrifice of Alex Bruce to play for them?

Charlie Darwin

03/06/2013, 10:51 PM

I don't believe I indicated he was interested in us, just that the attachment shows his eligilbility to play for us. Out of interest, have you got a link about his desire to play for England, Danny?

Using Hamiliton's logic, could we charge the IFA 10 million sterling for our sacrifice of Alex Bruce to play for them?
From the BBC:

It is believed Jones, born on Teesside, wants to play for England while the international intentions of former Cliftonville forward Donnelly are unclear.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22745927

osarusan

03/06/2013, 10:53 PM

Why would we pay compensation to the IFA? Are they going to pay compensation to the English FA for the number of players they have capped that have been trained exclusively through the english system? Silly Billy.

Which players opted for NI despite being very much in the plans of the English national team? That would be a more fair comparison, even though it's been done to death before.

Charlie Darwin

03/06/2013, 11:04 PM

Which players opted for NI despite being very much in the plans of the English national team? That would be a more fair comparison, even though it's been done to death before.
Iain Dowie?

ArdeeBhoy

04/06/2013, 12:51 AM

Out of interest, have you got a link about his desire to play for England, Danny?

It was already in this thread a day ago...

ArdeeBhoy

04/06/2013, 12:55 AM

Which players opted for NI despite being very much in the plans of the English national team? That would be a more fair comparison, even though it's been done to death before.

Except that's not what Stu' said...

SkStu

04/06/2013, 1:21 AM

Which players opted for NI despite being very much in the plans of the English national team? That would be a more fair comparison, even though it's been done to death before.

It's not what he is asking for though. It could really be any player that was in an underage NI squad.

If they want to take a player who has come through the IFA ranks, they should have to pay a compensation fee of somewhere between, say, half a million and a million pounds a player.

It's actually quite outrageous.

Charlie Darwin

04/06/2013, 1:24 AM

Daniel Kearns must be worth at least half a million. I mean, Peterborough only paid a fraction of that to Dundalk, but sure who needs logic?

gastric

04/06/2013, 1:26 AM

Which players opted for NI despite being very much in the plans of the English national team? That would be a more fair comparison, even though it's been done to death before.

I think you have missed the point. Stu is referring to players who are English born and whose football development occured in England. The point he is making is that shouldn't the IFA offer compensation to the FA for these players' development.

osarusan

04/06/2013, 1:37 AM

It's not what he is asking for though. It could really be any player that was in an underage NI squad.

I know it's not what he said, but he's talking sh!te. I'm talking about your point re FA development of players who end up with NI. If your point is purely to point out that he's talking sh!te, then we're in agreement.

I think you have missed the point. Stu is referring to players who are English born and whose football development occured in England. The point he is making is that shouldn't the IFA offer compensation to the FA for these players' development.
I think you're missing my point,which is that, in my opinion, there is a difference between players leaving the English setup for NI after coming to the conclusion that they're never going to play for England, and players leaving the NI setup for ROI, despite still being part of the IFA plans at/for senior level.

gastric

04/06/2013, 1:41 AM

I know it's not what he said, but he's talking sh!te. I'm talking about your point re FA development of players who end up with NI.

I think you're missing my point,which is that, in my opinion, there is a difference between players leaving the English setup for NI after coming to the conclusion that they're never going to play for England, and players leaving the NI setup for ROI, despite still being part of the IFA plans at/for senior level.

Pont taken. It's a hard one to answer!

ArdeeBhoy

04/06/2013, 1:42 AM

So what?
You could say the same about loads of countries...
It ain't going to happen.

Or if it did, another nail in the coffin of smaller teams.

DannyInvincible

04/06/2013, 9:18 AM

I think you're missing my point,which is that, in my opinion, there is a difference between players leaving the English setup for NI after coming to the conclusion that they're never going to play for England, and players leaving the NI setup for ROI, despite still being part of the IFA plans at/for senior level.

In your opinion, what are or should be the repercussions of this supposed distinction?

osarusan

04/06/2013, 9:43 AM

None.

ArdeeBhoy

04/06/2013, 10:23 AM

So a total red, or is it 'green', herring then...

Olé Olé

04/06/2013, 11:01 AM

gastric

04/06/2013, 11:06 AM

I'll be interested to see why Rory Donnelly has pulled the plug on his NI career. It now looks somewhat clear the he wasn't pulling out of squads or being picked behind inferior players due to injury, rather due to a lack of desire to play for NI, surely?

I hope the same applies to Ryan McLaughlin who would be a brilliant recruit, and along with Coleman, would ensure we have great depth at right back for many years to come!

Olé Olé

04/06/2013, 11:12 AM

I hope the same applies to Ryan McLaughlin who would be a brilliant recruit, and along with Coleman, would ensure we have great depth at right back for many years to come!

Am I correct in saying that the announcement in relation to McAlinden is the first of it's type in quite a while, perhaps since James McClean and Eunan O'Kane made their debuts for us?

And reading the stuff regarding McAlinden, it can hardly come as a surprise that he's switched his allegiances. If most of his family are from Ireland, then was never much of an affinity he could have had with the North. In fact, only one grandparent was Northern Irish and who knows to what extent they were indeed Irish or Northern Irish?

DannyInvincible

04/06/2013, 11:20 AM

None.

Does it affect your moral judgment of the players concerned, or of the benefiting association? Should the association that stands to benefit from a switching dual national player preserve some level of consideration for an association that might have future plans for that player, even when the decision of whether or not to continue playing for the original association is entirely at the discretion of that player? Should it reflect badly on a player when he shuns an association who want his services?

geysir

04/06/2013, 1:07 PM

Afaiu the point Osarusan made, it began and ended with pointing out that there is a difference between a player leaving one association who still want him and an unwanted player declaring for another association.

co. down green

04/06/2013, 2:16 PM

Just on that option, I wonder if the level of animosity normally reserved for FAI-bound defectors is being similarly directed towards turn-coat Jones...

Also worth noting that despite the IFA loss of McAlinden & Jones, the IFA u21 manager still managed to play seven English born u21 players in their defeat to Cyprus last week, with another couple on the bench. Four of those seven had never represented the IFA previously.

The IFA seem to be spending as much of their resources on scouring England for players as they do on under-age development, which is fine, I just wish they’d stop with the ‘using our resources’ nonsense.

Has Rory Donnelly ever played for an IFA team? Once? Twice? Certainly little if any IFA money invested in him over the years.

Charlie Darwin

04/06/2013, 2:23 PM

Has Rory Donnelly ever played for an IFA team? Once? Twice? Certainly little if any IFA money invested in him over the years.
He's never represented Northern Ireland at any level. Not that that will stop people bleating if it turns out the Republic of Ireland is his country and demanding compensation.

osarusan

04/06/2013, 2:30 PM

Does it affect your moral judgment of the players concerned, or of the benefiting association?
Regarding the player, possibly, if they've been concealing their intentions from the IFA. Not the benefiting association.

Should the association that stands to benefit from a switching dual national player preserve some level of consideration for an association that might have future plans for that player, even when the decision of whether or not to continue playing for the original association is entirely at the discretion of that player?
Not really.

Should it reflect badly on a player when he shuns an association who want his services?
No, as long as he hasn't been stringing them along.

BonnieShels

04/06/2013, 2:37 PM

No, as long as he hasn't been stringing them along.

The IFA are not 15 year old girls. That is a preposterous statment.

Charlie Darwin

04/06/2013, 2:39 PM

The IFA are not 15 year old girls.
Really? I can't think of a better description.

osarusan

04/06/2013, 3:01 PM

The IFA are not 15 year old girls. That is a preposterous statment.

Stringing them along, misleading them, concealing intentions from them, whatever. Spare me your mock outrage.

DannyInvincible

04/06/2013, 3:04 PM

No, as long as he hasn't been stringing them along.

Do you acknowledge that the player may not be the sole beneficiary of the relationship so long as there is one?

Charlie Darwin

04/06/2013, 3:05 PM

What happened to Are We A Country Danny?

ArdeeBhoy

04/06/2013, 3:11 PM

Still going.
https://twitter.com/AreWeACountry

And the IFA know the score, FFS.

osarusan

04/06/2013, 3:13 PM

Do you acknowledge that the player may not be the sole beneficiary of the relationship so long as there is one?
Irrelevant to my point that James McClean going from NI to ROI and Alex Bruce going from ROI to NI are not the same thing.

We've been over this before Danny, yeah? We're not going to agree.

ArdeeBhoy

04/06/2013, 3:15 PM

Except nobody but you and a few bitter Nordies cares.

Anyway, in those cases there was probably a mutual feeling of "Good riddance".

Charlie Darwin

04/06/2013, 3:17 PM

Irrelevant to my point that James McClean going from NI to ROI and Alex Bruce going from ROI to NI are not the same thing.

We've been over this before Danny, yeah? We're not going to agree.
McClean hadn't represented Northern Ireland in two years when he made the decision to declare for ROI. Regardless of whether the IFA wanted him at the time of switching, he wasn't a current international and hadn't been for some time.

Bungle

04/06/2013, 3:20 PM

To be fair, I can understand why the North are upset at losing players to us, especially when they have developed them for a number of years. However, I do think that it is hypocritical that they criticise us, when they happily took Alex Bruce. It works both ways and they need to realise that for every Alex Bruce they get, they may lose 3/4 players.

ArdeeBhoy

04/06/2013, 3:37 PM

And all their players brought up through the Eng.& Scottish system.

DannyInvincible

04/06/2013, 4:17 PM

What happened to Are We A Country Danny?

Insular paranoia can be a tough force with which to reckon. Invariably, one is eventually weeded out.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/torches_and_pitchforks.jpg

geysir

04/06/2013, 4:35 PM

McClean hadn't represented Northern Ireland in two years when he made the decision to declare for ROI. Regardless of whether the IFA wanted him at the time of switching, he wasn't a current international and hadn't been for some time.
McClean was wanted by the IFA at the time he declared for the FAI, usually the IFA pick from the scraps of the unwanted players, those born outside NI.
Therein lies a difference and is used as one cause of annoyance. Whether you put much credence on that cause, is another matter.

BonnieShels

04/06/2013, 6:13 PM

Stringing them along, misleading them, concealing intentions from them, whatever. Spare me your mock outrage.

I knew what you meant. I still think it's a preposterous statement to make. Nothing "mock" about my outrage at it.

Why do you feel so aggrieved on the behalf of the IFA?

Maybe to stop feeling so jilted they should ask young kids their intentions as soon as they get involved in soccer within the "system". Maybe an additional question on the Summer Soccer Schools (https://secure.irishfasoccerschools.com/book-now/?new&camp=196) application form would help?
Or maybe talking to NISFA to see who've they have from the Bogside or the Falls on their books?
Or a scan of their surnames and concentrate on them as priority? Or what about checking the tendency to hug the right-hand touchline?

If anyone wishes to play for Ireland then they shouldn't be hindered in anyway. Apologies to the IFA so their feelings are not hurt is not a prerequisite for lining out for the FAI's teams.

ArdeeBhoy

04/06/2013, 6:46 PM

Ha, feisty response from Bonnie there.

Paddy Garcia

04/06/2013, 8:18 PM

I hope the same applies to Ryan McLaughlin who would be a brilliant recruit, and along with Coleman, would ensure we have great depth at right back for many years to come!

I thought he had played a competitive game for them!

BonnieShels

04/06/2013, 8:23 PM

Ha, feisty response from Bonnie there.

I could be earning a reputation with this and the BBC complaint.

IsMiseSean

04/06/2013, 9:16 PM

I thought he had played a competitive game for them!

As far as I know he kept withdrawing because of "injury" ;)

osarusan

04/06/2013, 9:47 PM

I knew what you meant. I still think it's a preposterous statement to make. Nothing "mock" about my outrage at it.

Why do you feel so aggrieved on the behalf of the IFA?

Maybe to stop feeling so jilted they should ask young kids their intentions as soon as they get involved in soccer within the "system". Maybe an additional question on the Summer Soccer Schools (https://secure.irishfasoccerschools.com/book-now/?new&camp=196) application form would help?
Or maybe talking to NISFA to see who've they have from the Bogside or the Falls on their books?
Or a scan of their surnames and concentrate on them as priority? Or what about checking the tendency to hug the right-hand touchline?

If anyone wishes to play for Ireland then they shouldn't be hindered in anyway. Apologies to the IFA so their feelings are not hurt is not a prerequisite for lining out for the FAI's teams.

I am not aggrieved about it in any way.

I've made two points. The first it that the IFA getting players from other associations and the IFA losing players to the FAI isn't always the same thing, and shouldn't be compared as though they are. The second is that if a player had made up their mind that they are going to represent ROI, but hides that from the IFA and continues to be involved in squads/development, I think that is unfair.

I made no reference to players being hindered, or apologies to the IFA, so I have no idea why you mention it. And of the ideas you suggest, the first has already been mentioned on this thread before. The others are just retarded.

gastric

04/06/2013, 11:58 PM

I thought he had played a competitive game for them!

According to the official IFA website he hasn't and he continues to be like Donnelly, not available when called up. Would love to see him join us, he will be a star! Was surprised he is only 5' 9', he looked taller when I have seen him play.

http://www.irishfa.com/international/squad-profiles/profile/2474/ryan-mclaughlin/