Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Charlie Darwin]

Connaught? Turncoat!

[geysir]

Donegal looks like a bell.
I suppose that was unintentionally smart.

[The Fly]

Connaught? Turncoat!

I feel dirty.

[ArdeeBhoy]

That is truly an awful product. Love to know which 'joker' designed that...Did they have family who were hard-core loyalists?
:rolleyes:

[DannyInvincible]

If it's any consolation, at least they didn't use Comic Sans!

[ArdeeBhoy]

That might be a little too much of an 'in house' joke, Danny...

[samhaydenjr]

They've given over large parts of Connacht to the Atlantic as well.

That'd be the global warming kicking in

[NeverFeltBetter]

Sort of an interesting case here: http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1572278?&cc=5739

MUFC's well regarded young winger Adnan Januzaj could actually play for four different nations, and one non-recognised one in the form of Kosovo. Is yet to decide between Albania or Belgium.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Surely Belgium, with their current squad.

Returning momentarily to Kosovo though, would it be more viable as part of a 'Greater' Albania, assuming that's what all parties wanted?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Wrong thread. And no. The problem is Serbia doesn't want to let the place go, and Russia backs Serbia up on the important international forums. Whether Kosovo is independent or joining some other country doesn't alter that problem.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You brought up yer man! But agree with the assessment in the last post, even though don't agree with the Slavs interfering.

[Fixer82]

Wrong thread. And no. The problem is Serbia doesn't want to let the place go, and Russia backs Serbia up on the important international forums. Whether Kosovo is independent or joining some other country doesn't alter that problem.

i heard he once owned an Irish setter. Could do a job for us

[Newryrep]

What nothing on here about the young 'Belgian' lad being monitored by engand ?

[Charlie Darwin]

The Januzaj thing is bizarre. They're monitoring a player who might possibly be eligible in three years. Yeah, good luck with that lads.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, they did the same thing with Cudicini and some Spanish player?
Then never picked either!

AJ will surely play for Belgium before if he's this good?

[AlaskaFox]

Arteta is the Spanish player in question.

The young Utd lad has already turned down Belgium; wants to play for Albania allegedly.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Its an eligibility thread, and Janujaz is an interesting case. As was stated in the link I posted above, he might choose Belgium, but feels a stronger connection to Albania, much like many Ireland players born in England have in the past and today. English "hopes" for his naturalisation are moronic and arrogant.

[geysir]

Strange then that quote from the Albania fa chief was almost totally dismissive
"Januzaj “doesn’t love Albania”, “There is little chance of him playing for Albania. We haven’t talked to the player himself but talks with his family have revealed that he isn’t interested. The door isn’t closed but only a little glimmer of hope remains. Officially, though, he hasn’t made a choice yet.”

Though it's good to hear that some people love Albania.

[Charlie Darwin]

Clearly he is leading everybody on until such a time as he can realise his dream of playing for Northern Ireland.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Its an eligibility thread, and Janujaz is an interesting case. English "hopes" for his naturalisation are moronic and arrogant.

Very much agreed, but this residency clause remains a threat to smaller countries and their respective Diaspora as has been cited many times before.

[geysir]

Clearly he is leading everybody on until such a time as he can realise his dream of playing for Northern Ireland.
That means we can pinch him at the 11th hour.

[Charlie Darwin]

That means we can pinch him at the 11th hour.
The FAI have already despatched Don Givens to slap him in the face and question his commitment.

[geysir]

He's Albanian,
give him 2 slaps.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Clearly he is leading everybody on until such a time as he can realise his dream of playing for Northern Ireland.

Well they'll take anyone...
#Hypocrisy

[Newryrep]

Very much agreed, but this residency clause remains a threat to smaller countries and their respective Diaspora as has been cited many times before.

is not and never will be eligible* according to

http://sport.stv.tv/football/international/242115-explained-why-manchester-uniteds-adnan-januzaj-cant-play-for-england/


'home' nations opted out of the residency clause apparently, only their education clause is valid (5 years before 18)

* unless they rip up their gentlemans agreement

Still not the first FA to not have a clue about eligibility

[Stuttgart88]

Arteta was never eligible. He had played underage for Spain, which in itself didn't count for anything, but rule 18.1 subsection a (as was in place at the time) said that at the time he played underage for Spain he'd needed to have been eligible for England too. But he only "qualified" for England years later, through residency.

If that young United fella has played underage for anyone I expect that would apply to him too.

I think the article numbers have changed but the rules have stayed the same. Danny?

[geysir]

Arteta was never eligible. He had played underage for Spain, which in itself didn't count for anything, but rule 18.1 subsection a (as was in place at the time) said that at the time he played underage for Spain he'd needed to have been eligible for England too. But he only "qualified" for England years later, through residency.

If that young United fella has played underage for anyone I expect that would apply to him too.

I think the article numbers have changed but the rules have stayed the same. Danny?
The article is nr 6 for single nationality - multi association eligibility, but the UK associations have made their own version (the UK agreement) and dropped the residency path to eligibility, almost completely.
You don't see that in the FIFA statutes but the UK agreement is legal tender. It's virtually impossible for a player with no UK bloodline connection, to be eligible to play for any of the UK teams. If this agreement was not in place, the UK associations would be acting like savages, kidnapping, grabbing, tapping up any UK born player who just happened to reside in their part of the kingdom.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Its just the attitude of some English commentators that bugs me, like Januzaj couldn't possibly turn down the chance to play for England. There should be more time spent by such people finding out what the player might actually want.

[Stuttgart88]

Even if he was a complete mercenary with no connection with any country, you'd think Belgium would be the more rational choice. Obviously he's not a mercenary and he's not eligible for England anyway, but just saying...

[ArdeeBhoy]

So we're saying, eg.England, can never claim a player on residency grounds?
Fair enough (& morally right IMO), but could Cudicini not have been called up at one time?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Even if he was a complete mercenary with no connection with any country, you'd think Belgium would be the more rational choice. Obviously he's not a mercenary and he's not eligible for England anyway, but just saying...

He's a good player. I hope his sympathies bring him to Belgium for just that reason, since he'll be an international non-entity with the other crowd.

And let's not even talk about Albania.

[geysir]

Everywhere around Europe, there will be people throwing a pair of football boots up onto overhead electricity lines, in support of Albania and Januzaj.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is the home nations agreement published, geysir?

[bwagner]

Is Stuart O'Keefe any links to us does anybody know?
I watched Shane O'Neill yesterday for Colorado , decent shift

[geysir]

Is the home nations agreement published, geysir?
It's not in any obvious place.

This is the orig agreement from 1993
UK Agreement (http://www.englandfootballonline.com/App/AppIntPlyrsUK.html)

The last part
'A player who holds a current British passport but whose natural parents and natural grandparents were born outside the United Kingdom is eligible to play for the home country of his choice'
applied to Channel Islanders etc. However, I think in theory, under that wording, a foreign born player could get a UK passport after 5 years UK residency and declare for one of the Associations. But at some stage after 2003, the 4 association got together to fine tune that part of the agreement, to rule out the possibility of gaining eligibility though acquiring a UK passport. At least matters were clarified by 2008 when there were calls for Nacho Nova for Scotland and Arteta for England,

[DannyInvincible]

Arteta was never eligible. He had played underage for Spain, which in itself didn't count for anything, but rule 18.1 subsection a (as was in place at the time) said that at the time he played underage for Spain he'd needed to have been eligible for England too. But he only "qualified" for England years later, through residency.

If that young United fella has played underage for anyone I expect that would apply to him too.

As far as I can tell, Januzaj hasn't represented any international team at any level as of yet, neither competitively nor in friendly. Irrespective of that, however, it appears he'll never be eligible to play for England unless he can fulfill an internal British associations requirement for five years of education in the UK country for whom he wishes to play. Satisfying such a requirement is extremely unlikely at this point of his career.

I'm thinking that even had Arteta not lined out competitively for Spain at under-age level before later acquiring British citizenship (not sure if official acquisition was ever confirmed, but that's besides the point), he'd still have been ineligible to play for England as he hadn't fulfilled five years of education in the country.

STV's Grant Russell wrote the following on the Januzaj matter: http://sport.stv.tv/football/242115-explained-why-manchester-uniteds-adnan-januzaj-cant-play-for-england/


However under the terms of an agreement between England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, the Football Association have no hope of capping Januzaj should the opportunity present itself in 2018.

The "home nations" voluntarily agreed to opt out of the residency rule in 1993. FIFA's statutes state that "associations sharing a common nationality", as is the case with the four nations, can make an agreement to remove the residency clause. Said agreement exists between the four associations.

As an alternative, the four nations can make a claim to naturalise a player if he received a minimum of five years education on the association's "territory" before his 18th birthday.

The rule allows Andrew Driver, born in England, to represent Scotland. It was first successfully used by former St Mirren man Andy Dorman, also born in England but who has now gone on to represent Wales.

Januzaj hasn't received the required length of education in England, having spent just two years in the country, and the rule does not apply to him.

All said, he could acquire British nationality and the Football Association could attempt to make a case to claim him. It would require a major change to an agreement which the home nations have chosen to stick to previously, despite the prospects being raised of Manuel Almunia playing for England, or Nacho Novo for Scotland.

In any case Januzaj, aged 18 and seemingly on an upward curve, will likely be playing international football for one of the many nations he is currently eligible for before England are anywhere near able to present a case in March 2018.

Not that there has been any suggestion from the player himself that he'd even consider playing for England anyway. I suspect such fanciful talk is more indicative of English arrogance than anything else.

I've sent Grant Russell a tweet in the hope he might be able to direct me towards a publication specifically or officially documenting the internal agreement between the British associations.


I think the article numbers have changed but the rules have stayed the same. Danny?

That's correct. The latest revisions to FIFA's Statutes and Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes came into force on the 31st of July this year, although the regulations governing eligibility to play for representative teams did not change. They've been numbered 5 to 8 in the last three publications since August of 2011, as opposed to 15 to 18 in the 2010 edition and publications prior. They can be found on page 63 of the 2013 edition here: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/AFFederation/Generic/02/14/97/88/FIFAStatuten2013_E_Neutral.pdf

[ArdeeBhoy]

Just clarifying, that Arteta/Cudicini could never have been called up either, on the basis of this '93 opt-out.

[geysir]

Just clarifying, that Arteta/Cudicini could never have been called up either, on the basis of this '93 opt-out.
There's nothing in that 1993 agreement that definitively rules out the right of a player with an acquired British nationality, being eligible and declaring for any of the 4 associations.
At some stage after 1993, the 4 associations had to meet and agree on an interpretation that ruled out foreign players who could acquire British nationality through residency.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ah, fair enough.

Anyway, anyone care to put even The Guarniad out of their misery...
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/poll/2013/oct/07/should-england-pick-foreign-born-players-adnan-januzaj?CMP=twt_gu

[Fixer82]

I hope the kid lines out for Albania if that's where his heart is and not Belgium because it will give him more chance of playing major tournaments.

[DannyInvincible]

Is Albania where his heart lies though? Has the player himself indicated a preference? Geysir's earlier post quoting the head of the Albanian football association (http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1714275&viewfull=1#post1714275) suggested that Januzaj has no interest in representing Albania.

If he was to represent a FIFA-recognised association now, I assume, in accordance with regulation 5.2, that would rule out any future opportunity he might have to play for a later-recognised Kosovan national team?

The general secretary of Kosovo's football federation had the following to say of the case: http://daswunderkind.net/manchester-uniteds-next-prodigy-adnan-januzaj-the-kosovar-diaspora/#ZVTQLQbbZt5MbcAv.99


"Only the player can decide where to play and we will respect any his decision. We cannot ignore the fact that the player has Belgium statehood and also is Albanian Nationality, it’s depend only from him a[n]d his family," he said.

"We would be happy if FIFA and UEFA admitted FFK and the player could choose for his country too. We have contacts with all football players from Kosovo even with the young age groups players, but it would be ungrateful to ask from them to play for our national team now and to prevent them to play for other national teams."

Why would representing an unrecognised Kosovan entity render him ineligible for other national teams though?

As for the agreement between the British association relating to the five-years-of-education requirement, Grant Russell got back to me but was also unaware of the agreement's public availability:


To best of my knowledge, and limited searching yesterday, it doesn't formally exist in public domain. It remains in operation, as we saw with Angel Rangel in 2011(ish). But curiously under lock and key.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think the only cases where Januzaj would be able to represent a Kosovar team should they be admitted to UEFA is if a) he hasn't represented anyone, or b) he's represented the association that currently administers that territory, which it seems would be Serbia.

[DannyInvincible]

I think the only cases where Januzaj would be able to represent a Kosovar team should they be admitted to UEFA is if a) he hasn't represented anyone, or b) he's represented the association that currently administers that territory, which it seems would be Serbia.

That would make sense. Players who'd played for Serbia & Montenegro later went on to play for both Serbia and Montenegro respectively depending on their (new) nationality.

For a Kosovan player like Lorik Cana, however, who has been capped 70 times by Albania, I assume a future opportunity to represent a recognised Kosovan team will never arise, due to his Albanian caps, despite his public petitioning for recognition of Kosovo.

[geysir]

I think the only cases where Januzaj would be able to represent a Kosovar team should they be admitted to UEFA is if a) he hasn't represented anyone, or b) he's represented the association that currently administers that territory, which it seems would be Serbia.
How far does the free pass go for capped players, declaring for another newly recognised country?
Surely Albanian players would be allowed to declare for their beloved Kosova. With Kosova out in the cold now, wouldn't a Kosovar player be more likely to declare for Albania, than the hated Serbia?

[Charlie Darwin]

That would make sense. Players who'd played for Serbia & Montenegro later went on to play for both Serbia and Montenegro respectively depending on their (new) nationality.

For a Kosovan player like Lorik Cana, however, who has been capped 70 times by Albania, I assume a future opportunity to represent a recognised Kosovan team will never arise, due to his Albanian caps, despite his public petitioning for recognition of Kosovo.
I believe he wouldn't be allowed. It's analogous to if Free Derry declared itself an independent state - James McClean would still be tied to the Republic of Ireland regardless of his hypothetical allegiance to the new nation.


How far does the free pass go for capped players, declaring for another newly recognised country?
Surely Albanian players would be allowed to declare for their beloved Kosova. With Kosova out in the cold now, wouldn't a Kosovar player be more likely to declare for Albania, than the hated Serbia?
I'm willing to be corrected on this but I think it only extends to players whose previous association has effectively ceased to exist or morphed into something else, such as it was with Yugoslavia. Given that Albania would not have changed in character, I don't think they'd be allowed, although perhaps FIFA would allow common sense to prevail and allow them to move.

[DannyInvincible]

But Stephen Ireland is still eligible for the People's Republic of Cork, right?

[geysir]

I'm willing to be corrected on this but I think it only extends to players whose previous association has effectively ceased to exist or morphed into something else, such as it was with Yugoslavia. Given that Albania would not have changed in character, I don't think they'd be allowed, although perhaps FIFA would allow common sense to prevail and allow them to move.
We won't go to war over it but after a bit of reading I'm pretty certain that any Kosovo eligible player will be allowed to declare for Kosovo, within a window of opportunity though for already capped players. That's how it was for Montenegro, there were no restrictions saying the eligible capped player could only have been capped with Serbia.

The terms of Article 8 applied without any stated restriction.

[DannyInvincible]

We won't go to war over it but after a bit of reading I'm pretty certain that any Kosovo eligible player will be allowed to declare for Kosovo, within a window of opportunity though for already capped players. That's how it was for Montenegro, there were no restrictions saying the eligible capped player could only have been capped with Serbia.

The terms of Article 8 applied without any stated restriction.

I hadn't been aware of this. Can you point me to some further reading on the matter?

[geysir]

I hadn't been aware of this. Can you point me to some further reading on the matter?
Actually, it's just common sense, considering that only players from the tiny Serbian ethnic community inside Kosovo declare for Serbia, the rest declare for anybody but Serbia, but mostly Albania.

Kosovo stuff
Kosovo status (http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/football-wins-amid-political-row-over-kosovo-status)
It is understood that once Kosovo is a full FIFA member, any eligible players will have a window of opportunity in which to switch allegiances from their current teams to Kosovo.

Montenegro stuff Montenegro wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro_national_football_team)
the chapter Current Squad
In international football, players can normally only play for one national team once they play in all or part of any match recognised as a full international by FIFA. However, an exception is made in cases where one or more newly-independent states are created out of a former state. Based on current FIFA rules, a player will be eligible to play for Montenegro, even if he had previously represented Serbia and Montenegro or any other country, if at least one of the following statements applies:[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro_national_football_team#cite_note-9)

He was born in Montenegro.
At least one of his parents and/or at least one of his grandparents was born in Montenegro.
He has lived in Montenegro continuously for any two-year period.

Due to mixed ancestries, it is likely that a high percentage of the players eligible to play for Montenegro will also remain eligible to play for Serbia, and vice versa. However, once they have played for either Serbia or Montenegro in any competitive fixture, they are no longer eligible to play for any other nation.

There is a linked reference to a FIFA pdf document on the status transfer of players, maybe there is something more in that document.
But I'm satisfied enough not to pursue it any further :)

[Charlie Darwin]

We won't go to war over it but after a bit of reading I'm pretty certain that any Kosovo eligible player will be allowed to declare for Kosovo, within a window of opportunity though for already capped players. That's how it was for Montenegro, there were no restrictions saying the eligible capped player could only have been capped with Serbia.

The terms of Article 8 applied without any stated restriction.
Did this actually happen though?