Eligibility Rules, Okay

[DannyInvincible]

Sounds good to me DI, great post. The only thing I'd add would be to underline the continual ignorance around the eligibility issues in outlets such as the Belfast Telegraph. Maybe release some frustration on the issue - Slugger's as good a place to get a dig in as any!

And yeah it's simply a case of posting in the box underneath once you've registered.

My post is awaiting moderation. I've added a bit about how elements within the media frustratingly reinforce the confusion through their ignorance and also mentioned the meeting in 1999 between Jim Boyce and Bernard O'Byrne where Boyce acknowledged the eligibility of northern-born Irish nationals to play for Ireland.


Danny, you should write a letter to the Belfast Telegraph for publication.

I might just do. I'm in the mood! :mad:


Wonderful post Danny.

One thing this line "There have been countless others to play for Irish teams..." This doesn't read right to me.

I think it possibly made sense, although I've amended it anyway so it reads a bit better.


The 'id est' bit is impressive. Throwing in the bit of latin brings it onto another level.

Haha. ;)

Cheers all.

[Stuttgart88]

I think I've posted this before. On a stag weekend a Liverpudlian pal of mine was chatting up a girl and dropped in a Latin phrase (can't recall which) to the conversation. The girl called him a pretentious ****. My mate responded "if knowing some Latin makes me a pretentious ****, then mea culpa". I thought it was funny...

[Stuttgart88]

I might just do. I'm in the mood! :Here's an idea. Danny drafts a letter to the BT. We edit it here before he sends it and whoever wants to add his name can PM Danny with his real name. Having counter-signatories will add weight.

[geysir]

Wonderful post Danny.

One thing this line "There have been countless others to play for Irish teams..." This doesn't read right to me.
How about - There have been countless offers made, to play for Irish teams.

[geysir]

Here's an idea. Danny drafts a letter to the BT. We edit it here before he sends it and whoever wants to add his name can PM Danny with his real name. Having counter-signatories will add weight.

As long as your name isn't John Delaney.

[DannyInvincible]

Here's an idea. Danny drafts a letter to the BT. We edit it here before he sends it and whoever wants to add his name can PM Danny with his real name. Having counter-signatories will add weight.

And then paste it around the nation's streets, like so:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Easter_Proclamation_of_1916.png/394px-Easter_Proclamation_of_1916.png

:p

I'd be happy with that idea. I'll try write something up.

[BonnieShels]

I hope we fare better than those lads. Where are they now?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Danny, you should write a letter to the Belfast Telegraph for publication.

Actually, part of me says "don't". Just let their paranoid constituency wallow in their own ignorance.

And what happens when you do? It won't be as 'DannyInvincible', but under your real, presumably, name?
Which would blow your cover for ever....
:(

[ArdeeBhoy]

I hope we fare better than those lads. Where are they now?

Well the way Ireland's going, including a few on here, you sometimes wonder if they'd existed at all....
Which might have a slight point eventually, but this was still less than a century ago.

[BonnieShels]

Here's an idea. Danny drafts a letter to the BT. We edit it here before he sends it and whoever wants to add his name can PM Danny with his real name. Having counter-signatories will add weight.

here here.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You can have mine gladly, though I suspect it might undermine his efforts.
;)

[BonnieShels]

Our web anonymity is useless; now BT fame would be awesome.

[SwanVsDalton]

I have a suggestion. Can we eschew 'Yours sincerely' when signing it off? Something like this:

*after 1,000 words of roasting*

'...only by having this misunderstanding put to bed, can our two associations and fan communities move on and work towards the greater good of football. And isn't that what we all want?

Schlap it up ye's,

The Undersigned.'

[ArdeeBhoy]

The only problem is even given the definitive proof, here and elsewhere, the 'whataboutery' :rolleyes: gene so prevalent in the unionist community (or the North's fanbase) is that it will probably generate, say of 1000 responses, only around 10 that are either remotely reasoned or accepting.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm trying to write up a general piece that will outline and explain the rules, cover the various issues and facts and also dispel many of the myths that seem to have arisen around the eligibility issue and prevailed, especially amongst NI fans and within the northern media. Some of the more common myths, I mean. Forgive me if I don't bother with debunking claims that Shay Given wasn't actually born in Donegal but was born north of the border. Obviously, there's a lot to cover so it might take me a bit of time, but I'll post it up here when I can and if anyone wants to include anything or feels some points might require editing, I'd be happy with that and then we could send it off to the media or maybe even try and get it published somewhere?

Disappointingly, I see that what I'd written on Slugger is still awaiting moderation, although two comments posted after mine have since appeared. Hopefully, Mick Fealty won't ignore it and is just trying to digest it for now.


Actually, part of me says "don't". Just let their paranoid constituency wallow in their own ignorance.

And what happens when you do? It won't be as 'DannyInvincible', but under your real, presumably, name?
Which would blow your cover for ever....
:(

I suppose I could always pretend I actually am this chap:

http://www.killiefc.com/Season%202003-04/KilmarnockFC/PlayerProfiles/Pics/DannyInvincibile.jpg


Our web anonymity is useless; now BT fame would be awesome.

We could be famous like George Best, or the Titanic! Actually, on second thoughts...

[BonnieShels]

We could be famous like George Best, or the Titanic! Actually, on second thoughts...

Best not have one on the rocks so.

[DannyInvincible]

SvD; any idea why my Slugger post might still be awaiting moderation? Fact I'm a newly-registered user maybe? :confused:

[DannyInvincible]

One of the worst treatments of the situation I've read to date: http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/06/03/irish-eligibility-row-signals-need-for-change/


Under FIFA rules a player can only play for a country if he is born in that particular nation, his parents or grandparents come from that country or if he has lived for five years continuously on the territory of the association.

There is also the provision for a player with dual nationality to switch countries once before they play a senior international. For example, players born in France to African immigrants can play for France at youth level and then their parent’s country of birth at senior level.

But another FIFA ruling allows Northern Ireland born players to play for the Republic based on the 1998 Good Friday agreement which provided NI born people the opportunity to choose British or Irish nationality.

The practical implication of this is that the Republic of Ireland are allowed to select any NI born player who holds an Irish passport, regardless of whether a player has any relation to Ireland at all.

...

While I have no affiliation to either nation, on the face of it such a ruling seems fundamentally unfair. It means that one nation in the Republic of Ireland has the opportunity to choose a side with players from two different jurisdictions.

Devine is not the first player to take advantage of the loophole and play for the Republic.

In recent times Manchester United’s Darron Gibson, Stoke City defender Marc Wilson and Everton youngster Shane Duffy are among several players who have switched allegiances after playing for Northern Ireland at youth level. Admittedly, Duffy did have an Irish grandparent, so he had every right to go across, but the others had no affiliation with the Republic of Ireland.

...

If Gibson and Wilson stayed with Northern Ireland they would have been first choice players in their lineup. The question needs to be asked whether these players opted to switch across simply because they thought the Republic was a stronger footballing nation with greater future prospects, instead of playing for a team that may struggle.

...

FIFA needs to close this loophole and instruct the FAI to stop picking Northern Ireland born players who have no connection to the Republic so that Northern Ireland can compete on an even playing field.

It's filled to the brim with factual errors and misconceptions. He also appears to fail to grasp that national identity is the fundamental issue here - I suppose you could expect that from a complete outsider - but my primary worry is that the miscued understanding of the Melbourne-based author ultimately leads him to adjudging the situation as being unfair on the IFA.

Clearly, the problem with letting ignorance go is that the misinformation favouring the IFA evokes sympathy for their position and makes the FAI out to be exploitative bullies taking advantage of FIFA sloppiness. If this was a propaganda war, the IFA would clearly be winning it, and it's not as if they're really doing a huge deal. Obviously, those favouring the IFA position who have something against which to protest are shouting loudest, however; the fruits they are reaping from the repetition and recycling of their misconceptions is the widespread receiving of them as fact. Whilst we know FIFA are aware of the facts of the situation, it would be in the FAI's interests to nip any potential wave of support for the IFA's position in the bud lest it actually took root in more influential circles.

[SwanVsDalton]

SvD; any idea why my Slugger post might still be awaiting moderation? Fact I'm a newly-registered user maybe? :confused:

I've no idea. Especially since the last post is some raving lunatic blasting off NI nonsense. I'd be surprised, and disappointed, if it was anything other than an innocent delay - sometimes it takes ages for posts to go up, sometimes inexplicably. But if it takes much longer dropping Fealty or a mod a polite 'excuse me' email might help.

EDIT - Actually I just posted a comment and it went straight up. You did say you registered, but are you sure your post went up when you were logged-in? I think the moderation process tends to be long for non-registered users. If not, then it might be a technical snafu. Best to email in I'd say - don't lose faith Obi Wan Danny, you're our only hope.


One of the worst treatments of the situation I've read to date: http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/06/03/irish-eligibility-row-signals-need-for-change/

It's filled to the brim with factual errors and misconceptions. He also appears to fail to grasp that national identity is the fundamental issue here - I suppose you could expect that from a complete outsider - but my primary worry is that the miscued understanding of the Melbourne-based author ultimately leads him to adjudging the situation as being unfair on the IFA.

Clearly, the problem with letting ignorance go is that the misinformation favouring the IFA evokes sympathy for their position and makes the FAI out to be exploitative bullies taking advantage of FIFA sloppiness. If this was a propaganda war, the IFA would clearly be winning it, and it's not as if they're really doing a huge deal. Obviously, those favouring the IFA position who have something against which to protest are shouting loudest, however; the fruits they are reaping from the repetition and recycling of their misconceptions is the widespread receiving of them as fact. Whilst we know FIFA are aware of the facts of the situation, it would be in the FAI's interests to nip any potential wave of support for the IFA's position in the bud lest it actually took root in more influential circles.

Absolutely terrible that one. It gets worse, right enough. But I'm still not convinced it's indicative of anything than misguided keyboard warriors throwing more nonsense on the fire. As mentioned though, if it became a problem at FIFA, I'd expect the FAI to act.

[Sullivinho]

..regardless of whether a player has any relation to Ireland at all.Jesus wept emo tears and cut his wrists.


Clearly, the problem with letting ignorance go is that the misinformation favouring the IFA evokes sympathy for their position and makes the FAI out to be exploitative bullies taking advantage of FIFA sloppiness.

Absolutely, and it's pretty much all they have going for them. Witness the petitions, open letters etc. Whether they exist or not, I've yet to read an impartial article that explores in any great detail exactly why these players are making the switch and to be fair, it could accurately be described as the crux of the matter. It would seem "FAI poaching" is the current, pi$$ poor incumbent of the space provided for answers.

[DannyInvincible]

I've no idea. Especially since the last post is some raving lunatic blasting off NI nonsense. I'd be surprised, and disappointed, if it was anything other than an innocent delay - sometimes it takes ages for posts to go up, sometimes inexplicably. But if it takes much longer dropping Fealty or a mod a polite 'excuse me' email might help.

EDIT - Actually I just posted a comment and it went straight up. You did say you registered, but are you sure your post went up when you were logged-in? I think the moderation process tends to be long for non-registered users. If not, then it might be a technical snafu. Best to email in I'd say - don't lose faith Obi Wan Danny, you're our only hope.

Hmm, I'm signed in automatically any time I return to the site. My post appears only to me in the position you'd expect it to had it been accepted and looks like any of the other posts except for a qualifying header that reads, "Your comment is awaiting moderation." Obviously, it remains hidden from other users. :confused:

I'll send an e-mail and light a candle.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Perhaps they think you're a 'double agent'??


I suppose I could always pretend I actually am this chap:

http://www.killiefc.com/Season%202003-04/KilmarnockFC/PlayerProfiles/Pics/DannyInvincibile.jpg

And be careful what you wish for;He's just been given a free transfer by St.Johnstone!

[geysir]

The most recent post I see on that Slugger blog is from ayeYerMa, who interprets laws with the vigour of an Apartheid loving Afrikaner, who thinks you Nordie nationalist upstarts should be kept on the plantation and at the back of the bus.
Has he a point?

[ArdeeBhoy]

No...

[Predator]

I'm glad to see that we're taking up our keyboards against the ignorant onslaught from the punks within OWC.

[SwanVsDalton]

I'm glad to see that we're taking up our keyboards against the ignorant onslaught from the punks within OWC.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb433/SwanVsDalton/the-warriors.jpg

[Sullivinho]

I'm glad to see that we're taking up our keyboards against the ignorant onslaught from the punks within OWC.

I (seriously) once witnessed someone getting smacked over the head with an old keyboard. They're a surprisingly effective weapon!

[BonnieShels]

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb433/SwanVsDalton/the-warriors.jpg

Come out to play with the Foot.ie Furies.

[geysir]

Kelly in the Indo today, more muck from Kelly. (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/slow-death-of-international-football-2666245.html)

I have quoted the parts of the article that are relevant to the eligibility issue. Actually there are no parts of his article relevant to the eligibility issue.

'And, yet, are Qatar's badge-kissing Brazilians any different from those pedestrian footballers to whom the FAI raise their hemline every time they unearth a green granny in their attic'?
'The 2009 rule change allowing players to transfer national allegiances, which unearthed a whole series of bizarre and incongruous international cross-border transfers -- mmm, a bit like club football don't'cha think? -- had ramifications for Ireland, too.'

'Of course, we have Sepp Blatter to thank for all of this, too, thanks to that rule change, which allowed a flood of players to switch allegiances with all the convenience of arranging a six-month loan between Preston North End and Kidderminster.

Can we really maintain stoic loyalty to an international game that could tolerate a midfield of Brazilians playing for Iraq, a back-four of Filipinos playing for Burkina Faso or a brace of Welsh strikers leading the line for the Cook Islands?'


'Qatar's badge-kissing Brazilians??'

FIFA changed the rules to prevent that, you fckwit.

'2009 rule change allowing players to transfer national allegiances?'

Has Kelly even read that rule?

'that could tolerate a midfield of Brazilians playing for Iraq'

Answer to above question is, Kelly has not even read the rule.
But, yes a Brazilian can play for Iraq, after at least 5 years residency in Iraq.

[DannyInvincible]

I've been reading back through the thread as I'm writing what will be a fairly long piece about player eligibility that should hopefully clear a few things up and dispel the myths and ignorance that, unfortunately, still seem so commonplace. However, something not wholly relevant to what I'm writing, as I'm not going to get into Alex Bruce or Adam Barton territory, being not wholly certain under which specific article they actually qualify, crossed my mind as I read about the transfer of Irish citizenship from one generation to the next in post #17 by osarusan (http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1449806&viewfull=1#post1449806).


If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration. The Irish citizenship of successive generations may be maintained in this way by each generation ensuring their registration in the Foreign Births Register before the birth of the next generation.

Since 1 July 1986, a person registered in the Foreign Births Entry Book after 1986 is deemed to be an Irish citizen only from the date of his/her entry in the Register and not from the date of birth. This means that children born to that person before his/her date of entry in the Register are not entitled to citizenship.

Say, an English-born individual holds Irish nationality that has been passed down via this method of registration mentioned above from Irish-born great-grandparent who had settled in England, to English-born grandparent, to English-born parent, to said English-born individual; presumably, they can't qualify to play for us under article 17, but could they qualify to play for us under article 15, or would they even qualify to play for us at all despite legally being an Irish national?

[AlaskaFox]

Danny: would you be interested in writing a guest post for GreenScene on eligibility? (Or just post there what you're putting up here)

[DannyInvincible]

Danny: would you be interested in writing a guest post for GreenScene on eligibility? (Or just post there what you're putting up here)

What I was contemplating doing was writing a piece which, at the minute, I have titled provisionally as 'FIFA Player Eligibility in the Context of Ireland: The Actual Rules, the Real Facts and Dispelling the Prevailing Myths', then maybe posting it up here so others could offer advice or suggestions on including some things I might have missed out on or tweaking certain points to ensure the best arguments are put across as possible. So far, I've actually written and compiled an astonishing 12 pages-worth of information on Microsoft Word and can see me writing a few more if I'm to cover everything I feel is worth including. Anyway, I wasn't sure what to do with it once it's completed but I'd be more than happy to let people publish it around the various blogs and fan-sites. It'll just be insanely long is my only fear. Maybe I should write a twin metro addition, ha. I suppose seeing something of it in the mainstream media would be the ultimate aim, especially in the north. I know I'll be sending it off to the Belfast Telegraph anyway.

Edit: By the way, if anyone can think of a better title, fire away. That one's just a semi-reference to this abysmal effort (http://thegawa.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/player-eligibility-the-myths-the-facts-the-truth/).

[AlaskaFox]

Wow, sounds comprehensive. Our McCarthy Quotes article got good exposure on d'radio, so I'd imagine we could help you become the #1 Expert on Irish eligibility ;)

[DannyInvincible]

Make sure to tell me before you stick it up so I can get a shave before the press come knocking on my door. :p

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes, Danny, without wanting to sound sarcastic, it's time for the definitive book (Ok, pamphlet) on the matter.

Have a mate who works in publishing.....

[geysir]

Say, an English-born individual holds Irish nationality that has been passed down via this method of registration mentioned above from Irish-born great-grandparent who had settled in England, to English-born grandparent, to English-born parent, to said English-born individual; presumably, they can't qualify to play for us under article 17, but could they qualify to play for us under article 15, or would they even qualify to play for us at all despite legally being an Irish national?
I think such a person would be assuming an Irish nationality - therefore article 17 'Any Player who refers to art. 15 par. 1 to assume a new nationality'
That means any player who already has a permanent nationality who qualifies to play for that association, BUT then assumes another new nationality.

The question I have about that, is if the player had already assumed that 2nd nationality when in childhood, therefore they have already assumed that permanent nationality not dependent on residence. But I doubt it and thats why article 17 is not called the granny rule for nothing.


As regards writing a lengthy piece on eligibility in general. I'd say, keep it as concise and simple as possible. You have a knack of understanding the issue and you can write a very intelligent and articulate piece. But bear in mind that a lengthy piece will likely be too lengthy.

Here is a piece I wrote that I would have put into the opening post on this thread but can't edit that post any more.

Eligibility for international teams is based on 4 articles in the FIFA Statutes (http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/federation/statutes.html)
Page 62 VII. ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR ASSOCIATION TEAMS
The articles are numbered 15, 16, 17 and 18.
The fundamental premise for eligibility for a national team is nationality/citizenship.
The main article of eligibility is Article 15, it has remained virtually unchanged in substance since 2003.
Article 15
'Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that country'

Most all born on the island of Ireland have 'permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence' and also most 2nd generation Irish, born anywhere in the world.
Irish citizenship is automatic at the time of birth to virtually all born on the island.
Irish citizenship is also automatic to a baby born to an Irish mother /father, no matter where in the world the birth happens.


Article 16.
Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality,
This article outlines eligibity for British nationals - one British nationality but 4 associations for which a British national is eligible to play for. The conditions of eligibility outlined here apply for each of the 4 associations and are taken from the UK Associations agreement of 1993.
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years.

Article 16 does not apply to Irish nationals, it only applies to British nationals.
As a birthright, a person born in NI has dual nationality (British and Irish). Article 16 applies to when the player uses his British nationality, but it does not apply when the player uses his Irish nationality.
Why? Irish nationality only entitles you play for the FAI.
British nationality entitles you to play for 4 UK associations and only a British national can play for NI.

IFA, Daniel Kearns and Article 16
The IFA believed and argued to the Court Arbitration of Sport (CAS) that NI born dual national, Danny Kearns, was
subject to the conditions of Article 16 and therefore ineligible to declare for the FAI.
CAS rejected this argument and confirmed what the rest of the world knew, that Article 16 applied only to British nationals, even if that British national had another nationality. Danny of course is an Irish national but because Irish Nationality only entitles a player to choose to play for the FAI, therefore article 16 did not apply to Danny's choice to declare for the FAI.

[DannyInvincible]

I think such a person would be assuming an Irish nationality - therefore article 17 'Any Player who refers to art. 15 par. 1 to assume a new nationality'
That means any player who already has a permanent nationality who qualifies to play for that association, BUT then assumes another new nationality.

I think I see what you mean. I always struggled to get my head around what exactly was meant by a player referring to paragraph 1 of article 15 to assume a new nationality, but I think that makes sense to me. Essentially then, they possessed an original nationality and qualified for a certain association initially by virtue of the nationality, so, in light of that, or in reference to that, they are now assuming a new nationality to play for a new association? Is that it, pretty much? Maybe I was just reading into it too much as it seemed somewhat superfluous to me. What player who is assuming a new nationality wouldn't refer to article 15?

Such an individual as the hypothetical one I mentioned with just an Irish-born great-grandparent wouldn't satisfy any of the four criteria laid out in article 17, mind, so I'm guessing they just wouldn't be eligible then.

I know you're of the belief that FIFA view NI as "territory" of the FAI due to the fact that Irish nationality law applies in that jurisdiction and because you feel FIFA precedent with regard to Alex Bruce would appear to suggest so. However, I mulled over the possibility in discussion centred around Adam Barton's eligibility (http://foot.ie/threads/148706-Adam-Barton?p=1467470&viewfull=1#post1467470) a while back that the permanent criteria in article 15 might not necessarily equate to a requirement for a nationality by birthright as I feared the former approach stretched the definition of "territory" quite a bit, yet, obviously, there still had to be some route by which the likes of Bruce and Barton have qualified to play for us.

Anyhow, if it's viewed as you see it, when countering the IFA's claims during the Kearns case, could the point not simply have been made that, even if article 16 did apply to the bearers of Irish nationality, NI was the "territory" of both the IFA and FAI anyway?


The question I have about that, is if the player had already assumed that 2nd nationality when in childhood, therefore they have already assumed that permanent nationality not dependent on residence. But I doubt it and thats why article 17 is not called the granny rule for nothing.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was considering as well when I was discussing Barton.


As regards writing a lengthy piece on eligibility in general. I'd say, keep it as concise and simple as possible. You have a knack of understanding the issue and you can write a very intelligent and articulate piece. But bear in mind that a lengthy piece will likely be too lengthy.

I'll see what I can do, although I can always write a comprehensive piece and then cut it down to size with the help of you guys or something for unleashing upon the world. :bomb:

[DannyInvincible]

Interestingly, I might actually have come across large group of players who would be acquiring a "new" nationality without actually referring to article 15 originally due to statelessness.

Just looking at the Swiss squad for their game against England and I see the following players are included, none of them Swiss-born to either a Swiss biological parent or grandparent, as far as I can make out, and all have played for Switzerland at international level before they'd have been able to have "lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the [Swiss Football Association]": Innocent Emeghara, Admir Mehmedi, Xherdan Shaqiri, Granit Xhaka, Valon Behrami, Johan Djourou, Blerim Džemaili and Gelson Fernandes.

I'm wondering how exactly they might qualify to play for Switzerland. I note that Swiss nationality law contains a principle on the prevention of statelessness and, indeed, quite a few of them do appear to have Kosovan and Kurdish origins so were possibly stateless originally (?), although there are others like Nigerian-born Emeghara, Ivorian-born Djourou and Cape Verdean-born Fernandes who I'm not so sure about. Djourou was adopted by his father's first wife, a Swiss woman, but article 17 stipulates that the parent must be biological in order for eligibility to be conferred in the instance of a player acquiring a new nationality.

Can anyone shew any light on this?

[Charlie Darwin]

They wouldn't be changing their nationality though. Simon Cox changed his nationality because he applied for Irish citizenship at the age of 23, or however old he is. Those players would presumably have been Swiss citizens from a young age and therefore were fully entitled to play for Switzerland when the situation arose.

[co. down green]

Wow, sounds comprehensive. Our McCarthy Quotes article got good exposure on d'radio, so I'd imagine we could help you become the #1 Expert on Irish eligibility ;)

Danny has certainly given the most accurate and comprehensive explanation on the eligibility issue that i've seen, and that includes the so-called professional journalists.

I think we should all help out with any snippets, suggestions and help that could be included in a definitive explanation of the eligibility issue by Danny, it would certainly help to inform the interested & and counter some of the nonsense currently being written.

[DannyInvincible]

They wouldn't be changing their nationality though. Simon Cox changed his nationality because he applied for Irish citizenship at the age of 23, or however old he is. Those players would presumably have been Swiss citizens from a young age and therefore were fully entitled to play for Switzerland when the situation arose.

I don't follow why the age of the conferral should necessarily make any difference. Presumably, you're saying then that the Swiss players qualify under article 15? Are you suggesting that if Cox had acquired Irish nationality, say, last year and waited another year to declare for Ireland that he'd be in the same bracket as the Swiss players and would have been entitled to play for us under article 15 rather than article 17?

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't follow why the age of the conferral should necessarily make any difference. Presumably, you're saying then that the Swiss players qualify under article 15? Are you suggesting that if Cox had acquired Irish nationality, say, last year and waited another year to declare for Ireland that he'd be in the same bracket as the Swiss players and would have been entitled to play for us under article 15 rather than article 17?
No, he's an adult. But if I had permanent Swiss nationality from the age of 5, why would I be changing nationality when I'm called up to the national team at 15? Cox, on the other hand, came up through the English system and was available (but not selected) for the national team, and only asserted his Irish nationality as an adult.

A better example would have been a player who'd naturalised as an adult, like Cacau in Germany.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, but Cox is hardly unique. In an Irish or international context.

[DannyInvincible]

No, he's an adult. But if I had permanent Swiss nationality from the age of 5, why would I be changing nationality when I'm called up to the national team at 15? Cox, on the other hand, came up through the English system and was available (but not selected) for the national team, and only asserted his Irish nationality as an adult.

A better example would have been a player who'd naturalised as an adult, like Cacau in Germany.

Hmm, is this your thinking on it or do you know this to be how FIFA view it? Essentially, you're saying that whether the nationality was conferred before or after the age of 18 makes a difference? I admit, it does make sense, but what FIFA rule governs that?

[Charlie Darwin]

Article 15, plain and simple. It's not explicitly stated but it's implicit in the use of 18 as the cut-off point after which one must spend 5 years in the country to obtain nationality.

[DannyInvincible]

Article 15, plain and simple. It's not explicitly stated but it's implicit in the use of 18 as the cut-off point after which one must spend 5 years in the country to obtain nationality.

I see. So does that mean that Cacau, for example, would have been eligible to play for Germany under article 15 rather than article 17 if he'd moved to Germany earlier in his life and acquired his nationality before turning 18?

[BonnieShels]

I see. So does that mean that Cacau, for example, would have been eligible to play for Germany under article 15 rather than article 17 if he'd moved to Germany earlier in his life and acquired his nationality before turning 18?

I think that's how I would read it.

Good spot on the Swiss. Was thinking that there was a gaggle of "foreigners" in their team today.

[Charlie Darwin]

Assuming he hadn't played for Brazil, yeah.

[geysir]

They wouldn't be changing their nationality though. Simon Cox changed his nationality because he applied for Irish citizenship at the age of 23,
Simon didn't change nationality he just acquired a new one.


Article 15, plain and simple. It's not explicitly stated but it's implicit in the use of 18 as the cut-off point after which one must spend 5 years in the country to obtain nationality.
The 5 years residence is a FIFA requirement, regardless of the citizenship criteria of that country.

[Charlie Darwin]

Simon didn't change nationality he just acquired a new one.
Yep, you're right. My imprecision.


The 5 years residence is a FIFA requirement, regardless of the citizenship criteria of that country.
Where does it say that?