Eligibility Rules, Okay

[geysir]

Article 5 sets out the Principles of Eligibility. Note the use of "any category" and "any type" of football.

Article 8 deals with the specifics of Association changing - it's odd that FIFA man was basically saying youth internationals are neither here nor there in the equation, but 8.1(b) would indicate otherwise.

I intend to double check on FIFA man's response.

Not quite
Article 5.1 sets out the principle of eligibility - with no exceptions

Article 5.2 is excepted by the conditions for changing that are in Article 8

Means that the conditions in 5.2 are totally excluded from consideration and Article 8 takes over to define the conditions for changing associations.



Article 8. 1 (b)He is not permitted to play for his new Association in any competition in which he has already played for his previous Association.

That does not say the player has used up his choice. Just that a player can't chop and change between an association during a competition.
Nobody said underage competitives do not matter, all FIFA man says, is that they are not binding.

[Closed Account]

Hell, a lot has been written since I last posted here:

Here's my tuppence on the email I got back.

First of all, the reply was an answer to the specific question that I asked, i.e playing for Assoc A, requesting and getting an application approved to change to Assoc B, and subsequently deciding to play for Assoc A again. (a la B Zamora, and T Kane).

In that context, the reply makes sense[1]. When he says "Meaning, as long as a player has not played for any senior side he can switch associations as long as he wants to.", I believe he is referring to Assoc A and Assoc B only, because your one request for a change has been used.

I read the whole thing with confirmation bias though. The sum of it all is that a player will be tied to us when he plays in a friendly or qualifier/finals game at senior level, or in a competitive youth game.

[1]. I don't think the person who responded fully understood how detailed an answer I wanted and hence I'm not putting too much weight behind it. Should I send a follow up enquiry? I know someone suggested it.

[ArdeeBhoy]

With respect to JD, NB et al, writing to FIFA is fairly pointless.

Even assuming they had a better understanding of the issue than someone like DI, they're hardly going to willingly admit any errors on their part to some random punter and are far more likely to answer in vague generalities.

[Not Brazil]

[1]. I don't think the person who responded fully understood how detailed an answer I wanted and hence I'm not putting too much weight behind it. Should I send a follow up enquiry? I know someone suggested it.

I've emailed FIFA, asking them basically the same question, in a different way.

Be good if you sought further clarification also Joe, and we can compare notes later.

[DannyInvincible]

With respect to JD, NB et al, writing to FIFA is fairly pointless.

Even assuming they had a better understanding of the issue than someone like DI, they're hardly going to willingly admit any errors on their part to some random punter and are far more likely to answer in vague generalities.

I'm all for e-mailing them for better clarification. This one has me puzzled somewhat as a literal interpretation of article 8 would appear to conflict with what was said in the e-mail they sent back to Joe.

[Not Brazil]

With respect to JD, NB et al, writing to FIFA is fairly pointless.

Even assuming they had a better understanding of the issue than someone like DI, they're hardly going to willingly admit any errors on their part to some random punter and are far more likely to answer in vague generalities.

I have no doubt that Danny has a very good understanding of FIFA's eligibility Statutes.

However, I doubt if he has more knowledge of them than FIFA themselves.

It's clear even Danny is in some doubt on this, specific, area of the Statutes.

[geysir]

Hell, a lot has been written since I last posted here:

Here's my tuppence on the email I got back.

First of all, the reply was an answer to the specific question that I asked, i.e playing for Assoc A, requesting and getting an application approved to change to Assoc B, and subsequently deciding to play for Assoc A again. (a la B Zamora, and T Kane).

In that context, the reply makes sense[1]. When he says "Meaning, as long as a player has not played for any senior side he can switch associations as long as he wants to.", I believe he is referring to Assoc A and Assoc B only, because your one request for a change has been used.
An underage capped player requests a change from Assoc. A to Assoc. B.
It doesn't work out at B, he was only capped at underage level there. Player then want to go back to A.
For sure he has to request a change to go back to A.
That means already he has made 2 requests for a change.
How can you interpret that only his one request for change has been used up?
Is there a 6 month valid open return option? :)

And we already have one example of one player playing with 3 different associations.

[Closed Account]

An underage capped player requests a change from Assoc. A to Assoc. B.
It doesn't work out at B, he was only capped at underage level there. Player then want to go back to A.
For sure he has to request a change to go back to A.
That means already he has made 2 requests for a change.
How can you interpret that only his one request for change has been used up?
Is there a 6 month valid open return option? :)

And we already have one example of one player playing with 3 different associations.
I didn't say anything about playing for Assoc B. I'm saying he sends the request but never gets capped or only plays in underage friendlies. Evidence shows that he still has the option of staying with Assoc A. What I'm saying is that the change of association is only confirmed when he plays in a competitive(senior or underage) or Senior Friendly game. Something you've been saying for some time Geysir.

[geysir]

I didn't say anything about playing for Assoc B. I'm saying he sends the request but never gets capped or only plays in underage friendlies.
Well you used the example of Kane who was capped by NI, then capped by Ireland, before returning back to NI.
So I assumed you mean't the player had (or at least could have) played for Association B.
But you are obviously more clear about what you wrote than I was :)


Evidence shows that he still has the option of staying with Assoc A. What I'm saying is that the change of association is only confirmed when he plays in a competitive(senior or underage) or Senior Friendly game. Something you've been saying for some time Geysir.
The sands shift.
First I thought that a player only had to be capped at competitive underage level in order for the change to take effect. Then I thought it had to be a senior A friendly. Now I think it has to be a senior competitive cap, even if the FIFA man didn't spell it out.

But after his reply, it is becoming more clear that a player can move hither and thither, even between 3 associations, which explains how that player that Danny offered as an example, is on his 3rd association.

The one thing that is clear, that maybe everybody (except NB possibly) can agree upon, is that the literal interpretation of 'can only make one request to change' does not remotely cut the mustard. So we have to look for examples to prove the rule.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I have no doubt that Danny has a very good understanding of FIFA's eligibility Statutes.

However, I doubt if he has more knowledge of them than FIFA themselves.

It's clear even Danny is in some doubt on this, specific, area of the Statutes.

Well yes, not more than their lawyers obviously. I'm talking about their office drones.

Hence them apparently contradicting themselves, as confirmed by DI...

[Closed Account]

Well you used the example of Kane who was capped by NI, then capped by Ireland, before returning back to NI.
So I assumed you mean't the player had (or at least could have) played for Association B.
But you are obviously more clear about what you wrote than I was :)


The sands shift.
First I thought that a player only had to be capped at competitive underage level in order for the change to take effect. Then I thought it had to be a senior A friendly. Now I think it has to be a senior competitive cap, even if the FIFA man didn't spell it out.

But after his reply, it is becoming more clear that a player can move hither and thither, even between 3 associations, which explains how that player that Danny offered as an example, is on his 3rd association.

The one thing that is clear, that maybe everybody (except NB possibly) can agree upon, is that the literal interpretation of 'can only make one request to change' does not remotely cut the mustard. So we have to look for examples to prove the rule.
Well Tony only played in an underage friendly for ROI, which isn't recognised by FIFA, so he may as well not have played for us at all. In fact, ROI were told not to call him up for the U19 qualifiers until his eligibility had been confirmed or something, linked to it a few pages back. Anyway. The waters are certainly muddy.

I think I entered this debate when Ciaran O Raghallaigh mentioned on twitter saying that James McClean request to change meant he could never play for NI again, and I think that is incorrect and every evidence I've seen supports that. And now I'm out. I'll leave ye to sort out the rest.

[geysir]

Well Tony only played in an underage friendly for ROI, which isn't recognised by FIFA, so he may as well not have played for us at all. In fact, ROI were told not to call him up for the U19 qualifiers until his eligibility had been confirmed or something, linked to it a few pages back. Anyway. The waters are certainly muddy.

Afaia, according to the timeline of events as they are recorded.
Tony O'Kane had played for NI underage. He had to apply for a switch to the FAI, personally in writing. That switch was approved by FIFA before O'Kane was played in a friendly in Portugal. Confirmed by Givens in Sept 2006
Then UEFA asked or told the FAI not to pick him for UEFA competitive games because of the ongoing official IFA protest & investigation by FIFA into the eligibility issue at that time.

When O'Kane went back to the IFA, he had to request that in writing from FIFA.

[DannyInvincible]

Discussion on McClean/eligibility from the Social Club NI: http://www.thesocialclubni.com/the-social-club-ni#!__the-social-club-ni/podcast

Begins at 43 minutes in the latest podcast, 'Romance is Boring'. Still have to listen myself.

[DannyInvincible]

Just had a listen. More progressive than most discussions on the issue with a hugely relieving lack of conspiracy theories, ignorance and double standards. The panel have obviously educated themselves on the matter. Even got a wee mention myself. :o

[Mr_Parker]

Just had a listen. More progressive than most discussions on the issue with a hugely relieving lack of conspiracy theories, ignorance and double standards. The panel have obviously educated themselves on the matter. Even got a wee mention myself. :o

Holty and Kieth are avid forumites on ILSF. We've taught them well. McIntosh is work in progress. :)

[The Fly]

Even got a wee mention myself. :o

Gastric'll get an ulcer if he listens to that. ;)

[geysir]

Now I know there's a league team called Chimney Corner.

I liked the bit in the discussion where the guy said something to the effect
we're not bigots anymore so congratulate us on that, we won't call you a fenian bashtard anymore, so come and play for us. :D

[French Toasht]

What makes this guy 100% certain that McLean will go to the Euros. All the indicators suggest otherwise.

[ifk101]

Even got a wee mention myself. :o

Johnny Gorman is an interesting case. After all this is an English schoolboy with senior NI caps to his name. The panel's laughter at your Johnny Gorman point should have hit home the realisation that Gorman wasn't capped for his footballing abilities.



Regarding McClean, it's mentioned that Beaglehole assured somebody on the panel that McClean was picked for the NI U21s everytime this was possible. It doesn't take more than a quick google search to find that this is questionable. McClean played for Derry City on the 30th of May 2011 in a 6-0 defeat of Galway United. The NI U21s played a scoreless draw away to the Faroes the next day without McClean in the squad. Go back to March 2010 and we'll find McClean played for Derry on the 5th of March against Cork City. The NI U21s played San Marino on the 2nd of March without McClean in the squad. McClean last played for the NI U21 team in November 2009 so there a period of approximately 2 years when he wasn't actively involved with/ overlooked for/ discarded by the NI international setup. McClean was loyal to the IFA as long as he was part of their plans but when this was no longer the case he set out to follow his dream of playing for Ireland.

[Not Brazil]

Regarding McClean, it's mentioned that Beaglehole assured somebody on the panel that McClean was picked for the NI U21s everytime this was possible. It doesn't take more than a quick google search to find that this is questionable. McClean played for Derry City on the 30th of May 2011 in a 6-0 defeat of Galway United. The NI U21s played a scoreless draw away to the Faroes the next day without McClean in the squad. Go back to March 2010 and we'll find McClean played for Derry on the 5th of March against Cork City. The NI U21s played San Marino on the 2nd of March without McClean in the squad. McClean last played for the NI U21 team in November 2009 so there a period of approximately 2 years when he wasn't actively involved with/ overlooked for/ discarded by the NI international setup. McClean was loyal to the IFA as long as he was part of their plans but when this was no longer the case he set out to follow his dream of playing for
Ireland.

Beaglehole had his say on the issue in the Sunday Life at the weekend, in an article by Mark McIntosh headed "James should come clean".

James was "loyal to the IFA until he reached the point of no return with them - far from not being part of their plans, he defected when he was selected for a senior squad for a competitive International.

It was then he decided to "follow his dream" - before it was no longer an option.

[ifk101]

Beaglehole had his say on the issue in the Sunday Life at the weekend, in an article by Mark McIntosh headed "James should come clean".

Sounds balanced and trustworthy. Can you post it here?



James was "loyal to the IFA until he reached the point of no return with them - far from not being part of their plans, he defected when he was selected for a senior squad for a competitive International.

How do you know that his mind to switch was not already made prior to Nigel reading of his move to Sunderland in the paper? The evidence shows he clearly wasn't on the IFA's radar prior to his move. Nigel certainty knew nothing of the chap prior to his Sunderland move.


It was then he decided to "follow his dream" - before it was no longer an option.

Just thinking of your proposal for the IFA and to go back to it, it should be noted that players are switching at relatively young ages to follow their dream.

Darron Gibson: 16
Marc Wilson: 16
Shane Duffy: 17/18
James McClean: 22
Paul George: 17
Daniel Kearns: 18
Daniel Devine (reported by the BBC he switched in May 2011): 18
Eunan O'Kane: 21

So with the exception of McClean and O'Kane, 6 players of the 8 listed switched at 18 or earlier. The only player in the list that switched with a reasonable expectation of making our senior side was Duffy as he had made his debut for the Everton seniors at the time. All other players have switched at a time when there prospects of a senior cap with us were slim to non-existent.

As the majority of players are switching at ages of 18 or under, is there really a pressing need for your proposal at all?

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's called 'control freakery'.
Or is it 'paranoia' ?
:rolleyes:

[geysir]

One of NB's most trusted acquaintances, who he claimed was a reliable source - perhaps even a source more reliable than the Oxford Dictionary itself,
has claimed that James the defector was subject to persistent pressure from forces, including sinister outside agencies in order to declare for the FAI.

At this stage, can you seriously put any weight on what NB surmises about what goes on in the head of James McClean?

Yes ArdeeBhoy, another case of OWC paranoia, is more likely.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You might say that;I couldn't possibly comment.
;)

[DannyInvincible]

Johnny Gorman is an interesting case. After all this is an English schoolboy with senior NI caps to his name. The panel's laughter at your Johnny Gorman point should have hit home the realisation that Gorman wasn't capped for his footballing abilities.

True. The main reason I raised the point was simply to highlight the universal application of article 8, mind. I could have used one of a number of examples of players who've switched from another association to the IFA or of players who've switched from the FAI to another association. Johnny Gorman just so happened to tick both boxes and the irony is that he was the only player on the field to have switched between the two partaking associations when we played NI in the Carling Nations Cup. Essentially, all associations could be said to benefit/suffer from the application of article 8.

[DannyInvincible]

Just thinking of your proposal for the IFA and to go back to it, it should be noted that players are switching at relatively young ages to follow their dream.

Darron Gibson: 16
Marc Wilson: 16
Shane Duffy: 17/18
James McClean: 22
Paul George: 17
Daniel Kearns: 18
Daniel Devine (reported by the BBC he switched in May 2011): 18
Eunan O'Kane: 21

So with the exception of McClean and O'Kane, 6 players of the 8 listed switched at 18 or earlier. The only player in the list that switched with a reasonable expectation of making our senior side was Duffy as he had made his debut for the Everton seniors at the time. All other players have switched at a time when there prospects of a senior cap with us were slim to non-existent.

As the majority of players are switching at ages of 18 or under, is there really a pressing need for your proposal at all?

You make a good point. Cheers for listing them there. Hysterical claims of "use and abuse" of the IFA's youth set-up look even shakier when you actually take a minute to think about the ages at which the majority of players who change to the FAI after having been involved with the IFA do switch. Most have done so early - before or upon adulthood - as most NI fans would wish.

[ifk101]

.... claims of "use and abuse" of the IFA's youth set-up

It shouldn't be totally ruled out although abuse is too strong a word to describe it. It is probable that players will use the international set-up to put themselves in the shop window for professional contracts. In this way they may use the IFA as a stepping stone to further their career while their true international allegiances lie with the FAI. However as the IFA challenged the eligibility of NI born players to play for the FAI as late as 2010 (the CAS ruling wasn't until July 2010) we can't assume that all players within IFA structures were fully aware of their eligibility for the FAI before/ and even after this date. So claims of abusing the IFA's youth set-up go too far.

Anyways if we consider the first level of international football with the FAI, under 15s, players are nominated for trials by their clubs, their leagues or through the regional development centres. NI born players are not part of this selection process as the schoolboy leagues they are affiliated to are under the jurisdiction of the IFA and the FAI doesn't have a regional development center in NI to identify emerging talent. If the IFA wants to totally avoid "abuse" of its youth set-up, the structures the FAI has for identifying U15 level players needs to be extended to Northern Ireland.

[Not Brazil]

As the majority of players are switching at ages of 18 or under, is there really a pressing need for your proposal at all?

I've no issues with players declaring for the South before they represent te IFA at Under19 and above.

What I advocate, viz a viz IFA selection policy, will help restrict the number who do,
when they harbour ambitions of ultimately playing for the South

[ArdeeBhoy]

South Korea??

[Not Brazil]

How do you know that his mind to switch was not already made prior to Nigel reading of his move to Sunderland in the paper.


With his call up to the IFA Senior squad, he reached the point of no return.

He seemed happy enough with his call up iin this interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peWCoAWhJLw

[Not Brazil]

One of NB's most trusted acquaintances, who he claimed was a reliable source - perhaps even a source more reliable than the Oxford Dictionary itself, has claimed that James the defector was subject to persistent pressure from forces, including sinister outside agencies in order to declare for the FAI.

You have the temerity to accuse Gary Mac of making up stories, but yet you are guilty of exactly the same charge with these
comments.

Can you please direct me to such comments attributable to Gary Mac, specifically concerning McClean, or else retract your allegations?

Outrageous fabrication and misrepresentation on your part - but that's no surprise.
When struggling, you tend to resort to playing the man, and not the ball.

[Not Brazil]

Most have done so early - before or upon adulthood - as most NI fans would wish.

We need the bar raised from "most" to "all, with rare exception".

[Not Brazil]

Essentially, all associations could be said to benefit/suffer from the application of article 8.

Do you think that when Gorman was playing for the South at underage level, he was harbouring ambitions to fulfil a boyhood dream to represent Northern Ireland?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Did even his mother know his 'boyhood dreams' ??
:rolleyes:

[BonnieShels]

Did even his mother know his 'boyhood dreams' ??
:rolleyes:

John "Pennywise" Delaney might have.

They all float down South.

NB, will ya start using multi-quote.

[DannyInvincible]

We need the bar raised from "most" to "all, with rare exception".

Fair point. I take issue with the insinuation that players have been hanging around the IFA's youth set-ups for about five or six years. Not that I'm accusing you of making it.


Do you think that when Gorman was playing for the South at underage level, he was harbouring ambitions to fulfil a boyhood dream to represent Northern Ireland?

Most likely not, although this obviously became his ambition at some point whilst it could be said he was registered with the FAI. Clearly, Shane Lowry harboured ambitions of representing Australia whilst playing with us at under-age level. The same might be said of Michael Keane with regard to playing for England.

[ifk101]

He seemed happy enough with his call up iin this interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peWCoAWhJLw

Yes. He's happy (and surprised) to finally get the recognition he deserves from the IFA. He hasn't made any secret of his disappointment in not being selected for the NI squad for the Celtic Cup. The call-up to the NI senior squad was pleasing and a relief to him personally as a footballer.

"It was a blow seeing Irish League players being called up before me to the Northern Ireland squad, but having got the call I was relieved," McClean said in the Belfast Telegraph. "However, it's always been my dream to play for the Republic and hopefully that will become a reality now that I'm going to be a Sunderland player."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/08/james-mclean-northernireland-republic

[Lionel Ritchie]

South Korea??

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50252_126010400785797_4971390_n.jpg

[Predator]

Yes. He's happy (and surprised) to finally get the recognition he deserves from the IFA. He hasn't made any secret of his disappointment in not being selected for the NI squad for the Celtic Cup. The call-up to the NI senior squad was pleasing and a relief to him personally as a footballer.Indeed. One is hardly going to be disappointed with the international recognition, even if it is for the IFA rather than the FAI. McClean's reaction was diplomatic more than anything else. It's similar to 17 year old Shane Duffy's comments regarding his inclusion in the senior NI squad: "I'm made up with the news... I didn't expect it."

Contrast that stifled reaction with: “I finished training on Tuesday and then I got the text to say ‘You’re in the squad.’ It was a dream come true.”

“People like Robbie Keane, Damien Duff and Shay Given are my idols and now I’m in the same squad as them. It’s a proud moment.

“Getting a call up for your country, you can’t be more proud than that."

[drummerboy]

When are people going to realise that all these players regard themselves as Irish, first and foremost. Some of them may also consider themselves Northern Irish as well, and fair play if they do represent NI at youth level. As far as I'm concerned its no different than a kid from Cork representing the Munster FA before going on to full international honours with the FAI.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's probably an understatement to say not everyone sees it that way.

See the last 100+ posts from a certain person on here...

[DannyInvincible]

When are people going to realise that all these players regard themselves as Irish, first and foremost. Some of them may also consider themselves Northern Irish as well, and fair play if they do represent NI at youth level. As far as I'm concerned its no different than a kid from Cork representing the Munster FA before going on to full international honours with the FAI.

Not sure how appropriate that analogy is given the IFA aren't a subsidiary organisation of the FAI. Well, just not yet anyway... :p

[drummerboy]

What they need to come to terms with, is that we don't regard capping the likes of Gibson, George and McClean as poaching. We regard them as our players and the players, regard themselves as Irish.

[Not Brazil]

We regard them as our players and the players, regard themselves as Irish.

What you, and others, need to come to terms with is that if these "Irish" players, don't wish to commit their International career to the, er, Irish Football Association, at Under 19 level, some of us would be very happy to help make them your players.

[ifk101]

What you, and others, need to come to terms with is that if these "Irish" players, don't wish to commit their International career to the, er, Irish Football Association, at Under 19 level, some of us would be very happy to help make them your players.

The key words in the above are "some of us" (or in reality "one of us"). The IFA went to the CAS to challenge the eligibility of NI born Iirsh nationals to play for their country. Besides your opinion/ stance, there's not much to suggest that the IFA and its support accepts the CAS ruling. How the IFA conducts its selection policies, U19 or otherwise, is of little interest as long as the eligibility of Irish nationals to represent their country is preserved.

[Closed Account]

I found this interesting:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/scotland/9094557/Craig-Levein-chooses-seven-English-born-players-for-Scotland-squad-to-face-Slovenia.html

Levein had already been made aware of his dual-nationality status thanks to the Professional Footballers’ Association. “[The Scottish Football Association’s Yorkshire-born chief executive] Stewart Regan deserves some credit as well,” said Levein. “He and I went down to the meet the English players’ union over a year ago. They have added an addition to the membership forms for the kids when they sign up to join – not just for us, but for Wales, Northern Ireland and others too.”
When players join the PFA, there is a space on the form to indicate what countries you are eligible for. I'd like to see a copy of the form for the specific wording of it, but I think its a very progressive attitude. Rather than trying to force players to play for England, NI, ROI etc, why not make all their options fully available and aware to them and let kids, adults, players in general make their own decisions, and not begrudge them when they do.


the FA on Monday indicated it is relaxed about it and believe that their developmental process, which begins with an under-16 team, is an effective system for encouraging the best English-born players to still represent England.
Maybe the IFA should take a similiar approach. Rather than complaining when players leave their setup, evaluate why they've left and try to foster an environment that encourages players to pull on the NI jersey.

[DannyInvincible]

The key words in the above are "some of us" (or in reality "one of us"). The IFA went to the CAS to challenge the eligibility of NI born Iirsh nationals to play for their country. Besides your opinion/ stance, there's not much to suggest that the IFA and its support accepts the CAS ruling. How the IFA conducts its selection policies, U19 or otherwise, is of little interest as long as the eligibility of Irish nationals to represent their country is preserved.

To be fair to the IFA, I think they have finally accepted - whether begrudgingly or not - the right of northern-born Irish nationals to declare for the FAI. Or at least that appears to be their current public stance anyway.* It also looks as if they've acknowledged that the ball is in their court with regard to attempting to win over the broad nationalist community, if such is indeed possible, but at least it's an approach more mature than making official attempts to restrict player choice or branding players who switch "traitors" and such like many of their fans do.

Both Gerry Armstrong and Michael O'Neill have spoken about their acceptance of the findings of the CAS judgment in their writings/interviews. Even Nigel Worthington acknowledged the right of northern-born Irish nationals to declare for the FAI in his famous "north of Ireland" interview after the Kearns judgment. Residual militancy on this matter seems confined to elements within the NI support (it appears that the official stance of the AONISC remains to seek an amendment to FIFA's rules on eligibility or to seek the implementation of some sort of inter-associational agreement between the FAI and IFA) and clueless politicians with what I suspect is a greater interest in picking up a few more votes than local football in NI.

*I'm aware from his posts on ILSF that Mr_Parker believes that figures within the IFA knew full well the Kearns case was a futile endeavour, but that they decided to pursue the calamity anyway in the interests of appeasing and maintaining the faith of their fan-base.


I found this interesting:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/scotland/9094557/Craig-Levein-chooses-seven-English-born-players-for-Scotland-squad-to-face-Slovenia.html

When players join the PFA, there is a space on the form to indicate what countries you are eligible for. I'd like to see a copy of the form for the specific wording of it, but I think its a very progressive attitude. Rather than trying to force players to play for England, NI, ROI etc, why not make all their options fully available and aware to them and let kids, adults, players in general make their own decisions, and not begrudge them when they do.

Is this from where Gerry Armstrong gets his information on IFA potentials then? Are the FAI able to access such information? Perhaps the FAI are privy to these details and it provides them with a method of deciphering which northern-born players might be interested in representing Ireland...


Maybe the IFA should take a similiar approach. Rather than complaining when players leave their setup, evaluate why they've left and try to foster an environment that encourages players to pull on the NI jersey.

As outlined above, I believe the IFA to have adopted such an approach.

In related news, Shane Ferguson has been called up to the NI squad to face Norway after committing his international future to the IFA in November: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17097691

The morning's Irish Sun is also to run with a front-page story on the abuse James McClean has been receiving on Twitter from vindictive NI fans after his call-up to our senior team, according to a poster on OWC who watched 'Tonight with Vincent Browne' on TV3. The headline is apparently set to read: "Hate mob attack footie ace McClean - Sectarian bile after Trapattoni squad call up."

[Olé Olé]

What you, and others, need to come to terms with is that if these "Irish" players, don't wish to commit their International career to the, er, Irish Football Association, at Under 19 level, some of us would be very happy to help make them your players.

And so George and Gibson did, prior to under 19 level. They asserted their right to line out as "Irish" players (inappropriate use of inverta commas). McClean was late in doing so. He drained the IFA of their resources in the same way that Keith Fahey must have done Arsenal and Villa. The action on their behalf against Birmingham et al. must be pending.

[Olé Olé]

The morning's Irish Sun is also to run with a front-page story on the abuse James McClean has been receiving on Twitter from vindictive NI fans after his call-up to our senior team, according to a poster on OWC who watched 'Tonight with Vincent Browne' on TV3. The headline is apparently set to read: "Hate mob attack footie ace McClean - Sectarian bile after Trapattoni squad call up."

Not to mind the bile he received prior to that. But what is funny is that their ilk comprehend that the hate bile won't result in McClean turning back to play for the IFA because they can't possibly envisage that. And so they spew this stuff towards him on Twitter and what is the end product? What do they expect to occur/achieve? I'm not sure, but it doesn't entice nationalists (generalistically speaking) to remain with the IFA.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes, but whatever you do don't mention this on his thread. Won't someone think of the children...
:rolleyes:

Also the North are after some Japanese club striker who plays in Holland...