Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Charlie Darwin]

If we want him, we'll get him. We're the all-powerful, evil FAI. We've compelled honest, god-fearing nordie boys to play for us against their will before and we'll do it again.

[DannyInvincible]

And if that doesn't work, then we can, of course, rely on murky community figures of a nationalist persuasion to do the business with the old tried-and-tested methods of abuse, intimidation and threats (http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1565945&viewfull=1#post1565945)... :bulgy:

[Predator]

I've an image of Delaney sitting in Abbotstown stroking a cat while the FAI's Stasi branch rolls out, clad, of course, in the dreaded and inconspicuous FAI jacket.

[DannyInvincible]

I naively assumed that even somebody of GR's pedantry level would realise McNair was born before that constitutional amendment was made :p

Hehe, he was, and my first assertion was, of course, a careless oversight, but, even so, being born on the island of Ireland prior to 2005 didn't necessarily translate into the automatic conferral of Irish citizenship. The conferral of citizenship was only automatic prior to 2005 where the individual concerned was not entitled to the citizenship of any other country. As McNair is and always has been a British citizen, he remains merely entitled to Irish citizenship (considered effective from birth) if he so wishes to effect that right.

At the time of McNair's birth, the 1956 Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1956/en/act/pub/0026/print.html#sec6) would have been in effect; under that legislation, it could seemingly have been argued that he was an automatic Irish citizen as citizenship was conferred to, as well as those born in the territory comprising of the Irish state, all those born anywhere on the island of Ireland before the 6th of December, 1922 and those born in Northern Ireland on or after that date to a parent who was an Irish citizen at the time of birth. Presumably, one of McNair's forebears somewhere down the line would have been born on the island pre-1922 and so would have been considered an automatic Irish citizen, in accordance with the 1956 act. If I interpret the legislation correctly and amn't overlooking anything, an immediate descendant, although born in the north, would have inherited Irish citizenship automatically, having been born to an Irish citizen, and, as they were an Irish citizen, they then would have passed it on to the subsequent generation, and so forth. However, even if such an interpretation is correct, that law no longer applies as it was superseded with retroactive effect by the post-Good Friday Agreement changes.


McNair's name is clearly of Gaelic Irish lineage.

It was derived from Gaelic, certainly, but I don't believe it's of Irish origin. Otherwise, what you say is true. Indeed, James McClean's surname is also of Scots Gaelic origin.

Ballyclare, which has a tiny Catholic minority, is situated in the overwhelmingly unionist heartland of the Newtownabbey Borough Council area. 22 of the council's 25 local councillors elected in 2011 were either declared or default unionists. Second-guessing one's political identity based on such factors in isolation can be crude and imprecise, but, all things considered, what Fly stated in the Everton Irish thread (http://foot.ie/threads/183233-Everton-Irish-and-Opposition-Irish?p=1780881&viewfull=1#post1780881) is most likely true. Probably... :)

[Charlie Darwin]

Sorry Danny, I meant Paddy was a name of Irish Gaelic origin :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

If we want him, we'll get him. We're the all-powerful, evil FAI. We've compelled honest, god-fearing nordie boys to play for us against their will before and we'll do it again.

We wish!

And Daniel nails it, yet again. On any relative citizenship issue.

Perhaps that should be part of the 'package'?

[BonnieShels]

Can we not just measure the distance between his eyes? That'll settle it once and for all.

[Gather round]

You comedians should avoid wetting yourselves over this kid. He's made one EPL appearance. Like Albino McGivern or Jonny Gorman. More than Sean Saint Ledger though, IIRC.

Padraig's a Latin name. Both the snake-charmer and rookie defensive midfielder should qualify for Pax Romana on the great-great-great-Granny rule.

The only long distance relevant here is that between ManU's back four as they flounder to another beating.

BTW (and rising to the pedantry challenge above), Danny's surprisingly behind the times with his electoral analysis (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/23_05_14_ballyclare.pdf). That said, maybe the Nationalist parties might get a seat or two if they actually put up candidates?

I have an extended cousin who lives and works in Ballyclare. He's a Catholic, or at least was until his marriage a couple of years ago, at which point he took the path of least resistance under pressure from the mother-in-law. His Dad did the journey in reverse 30 years ago :D

Avid NI watchers on this forum will be waiting to see if PMN gets fast-tracked into the senior squad for the Faeroes game. Personally I'd try out big McCullough from Donny Rovers, who started last term playing alongside a guy from One Direction in the reserves...

[ArdeeBhoy]

Huh?

The Mancunian Plastics won at the weekend, luckily.
And Patrick is from 'Norman French'?

[Gather round]

Huh?

The Mancunian Plastics won at the weekend, luckily.
And Patrick is from 'Norman French'?

The Professor might ask himself what the French language developed from?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well yeah, but what's yer point, caller?

[Charlie Darwin]

Padraig's a Latin name. Both the snake-charmer and rookie defensive midfielder should qualify for Pax Romana on the great-great-great-Granny rule.
I think I owe Danny an apology here.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No, GR does. But on reflection, we should all pass...

[DeLorean]

Not that he was on the radar but...
Manchester United's Paddy McNair in Northern Ireland squad (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29896502)

[BonnieShels]

Curry yoghurt all over our faces!
Ah he has to turn up and play first. Which he will. Has anyone seen him play for United? Any better than what we have?

[Stuttgart88]

He has done well but I can't help but feel he's in the right place at the right time. There is any one of a number of young CBs at lesser clubs, including some of our young crop, who could probably do as good a job if the stars lined up the same way as McNair's have. John Egan perhaps, maybe Tommy Hoban or Duffy.

[Charlie Darwin]

Duffy must have been kicking himself looking at Alcaraz limping off on Saturday. Then again, he'll see more football at Blackburn than he ever would have with Everton.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Blackburn look well placed to finish in or around the playoffs, as opposed to Yeovil last season; and he's probably their #1 CB, as opposed to #5 CB at Everton, so it could be worse.

It's a cliche but Blackburn are a PL
Club playing in the Championship, as they say about Leeds; granted they don't have a PL standard stadium or support base.

[Dunners]

So how the fcuk does that make them a PL club ?

[liamoo11]

He has done well but I can't help but feel he's in the right place at the right time. There is any one of a number of young CBs at lesser clubs, including some of our young crop, who could probably do as good a job if the stars lined up the same way as McNair's have. John Egan perhaps, maybe Tommy Hoban or Duffy.

ryan mcconnell is at utd in mcnairs age group as a centre half. mcnair as i understand it went there as attacking midfielder

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Burnley are not set up to be a Premier League club. Most of their fans don't expect them to remain there. Blackburn are set up to be a Premier League club. Most of their fans would give them a good chance of remaining there, if they can achieve promotion within the next year or two, which is a realistic target.

Derby are a yo-yo team. West Brom are/were a yo-yo team. Blackburn were an established Premier League club for many years. They have been in the Championship for just two seasons, finishing 8th last season.

People often refer to Leeds as a PL standard club because of their stadium, fanbase, tradition and club ethos.

More than anything, it's an expression. Don't read it so literally.

[DeLorean]

How are Derby any more of a yo-yo team than Blackburn? They've both been relegated twice since the inception of the PL. Granted Blackburn have had a few extra seasons there, due in no small part to Jack Walker's funds keeping them ticking over for many years.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ah, come on. Blackburn have been outside the Premier League for, what, three seasons out of 23? They relegation comparison means nothing.

[BonnieShels]

They won it as well. That surely counts for summat.

[Gather round]

He has done well but I can't help but feel he's in the right place at the right time. There is any one of a number of young CBs at lesser clubs, including some of our young crop, who could probably do as good a job if the stars lined up the same way as McNair's have. John Egan perhaps, maybe Tommy Hoban or Duffy

McNair is indeed benefitting from circumstances (Ferguson not replacing Ferdinand and Vidic with similar quality, Jones and Evans injury prone, Rojo diving into rash challenges), but he's starting at ManU basically because their coaches and scouts judge him better than the others in their junior teams, or equivalents elsewhere.

He's in the NI squad to cover for and ultimately replace Aaron Hughes. 450 EPL games and nine qualifying series, but he and McAuley are pushing 35.

The more experienced Ryan McGivern is more likely to play in Romania. A journeyman in club football but has stepped up against Greece and the other bigger teams internationally.

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz196/BillMcComish/ultonia/albino-bitch_zpsae611c2a.jpg (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/BillMcComish/media/ultonia/albino-bitch_zpsae611c2a.jpg.html)

PS doesn't Blackburn's (cliched) status depend on them going up this year, before the 'parachute' payment ends? As TOWK says, they can't compete with Leeds or other big-city clubs for support base etc.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You've only posted that 'cartoon' 300 times before DG. Not very 'PC' in light of your impending political 'career'...
:rolleyes:

[ArdeeBhoy]

Not that he was on the radar but...
Manchester United's Paddy McNair in Northern Ireland squad (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29896502)


Pity he never got the chance to play with Allen McKnight...

[DannyInvincible]

Curry yoghurt all over our faces!

I hear Gregory was wasting further time shamelessly defending his ignorance and bigotry on the Nolan Show today. Of course, the embarrassing thing for him is that his own surname is of Gaelic origin and even Edward Carson along a fifth of the dwellers on the loyal Shankhill Road spoke Irish a hundred years ago.

Anyway, enough about Campbell... To make that somewhat relevant, here was a pre-cup final piece by McDonnell discussing the differing career paths of Gregory's footballing nemesis, James McClean, and McClean's former NI room-mate and current Derry City player, Philip Lowry: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/james-mccleans-room-mate-philip-lowry-eyes-aviva-joy-30701291.html ;)

Lowry had a bit to say on the eligibility issue...


...

They remain friends - McClean remains a huge Derry fan and would be home for their showdown with St Patrick's Athletic only for Wigan commitments getting in the way - although it appears they share different opinions on the rules which allowed him to switch between two nations.

"Playing for Northern Ireland U-21s helped him get stronger and stronger," says Lowry. "You look at him now and he's made a great career for himself.

"I wasn't surprised [when he changed to Republic], I was obviously surprised his career took off as quickly as it did. He just went from strength to strength at Derry and before you knew it, he was scoring in the Premiership.

"I think it [loophole] is obviously a problem and it's outside anyone's hands. It's just the world we live in, especially on this island. It's something they have to look at maybe stopping. In terms of Northern Ireland, I don't think it's that fair you can just get up and jump.

"But I don't think you can knock James for what he's done. Anyone who gets that successful, they've obviously got a great attitude, it doesn't just get handed to you. He was always very driven and I still speak to him. He's always back home, always at Derry games and I always make a point of speaking to him.

"For the people of Derry, he's sort of a hero. And you look at the young and up and coming players at Derry and there are two or three who could easily emulate him with the talent they have. It's just down to their attitude and how good they want to be."

The use of "loophole" within the squared brackets was McDonnell's; not mine!

[Gather round]

Edward Carson along a fifth of the dwellers on the loyal Shankhill Road spoke Irish a hundred years ago

Dwelling on the distant past again Danny? It's much more likely to be Polish now, whether in the Ulice Stary Kosciol or NI generally.

Seemsa your mate Greggy called Dail Eireann yesterday in an effort to soothe the row.

GC: Hello, can I talk to the Speaker of Parliament please? It's very important.

Operator: Ceann comhairle?

GC: OK, but as I say it is rather urgent.

[DannyInvincible]

Dwelling on the distant past again Danny? It's much more likely to be Polish now, whether in the Ulice Stary Kosciol or NI generally.

Seemsa your mate Greggy called Dail Eireann yesterday in an effort to soothe the row.

GC: Hello, can I talk to the Speaker of Parliament please? It's very important.

Operator: Ceann comhairle?

GC: OK, but as I say it is rather urgent.

All's I'm saying is that he's mocking/demonstrating an embarrassing ignorance of his own Gaelic heritage. Unionists/Protestants shouldn't feel threatened or alienated by use of the Irish language. If it was fine for Protestants and Unionists to use/tolerate it in the past, why should it be any different now? If Sinn Féin also happen or want to use or promote awareness of the language on a regular basis (along with thousands of others throughout Ireland and around the world who have absolutely nothing to do with Irish republicanism), that's their call. It's a tongue native to the island. Gregory, on the other hand, is free to speak solely in English or Ulster-Scots if he so desires and nobody would have an issue with it. In fact, I'd be genuinely impressed if he did.

I did enjoy the gag, by the way. It's very good. But tread carefully; I might add, that's your heritage too! ;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Not if you know GR!
:rolleyes:

[DannyInvincible]

Not if you know GR!
:rolleyes:

He may deny in vain like Gregory all he wants. :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf to GR, he would eat curried yoghurt. Definitely.
And pretty much anything else that was going. One thing which he wouldn't discriminate about!
:)

[DeLorean]

Ah, come on. Blackburn have been outside the Premier League for, what, three seasons out of 23? They relegation comparison means nothing.

In terms of being a 'PL club', it means little. In terms of being a yo-yo club, it means everything, which is what I was referring to.

[Gather round]

Unionists/Protestants shouldn't feel threatened or alienated by use of the Irish language. If it was fine for Protestants and Unionists to use/tolerate it in the past, why should it be any different now?

I doubt anyone feels threatened by it. Personally, I like hearing it spoken in the shops or on the Carnmoney omnibus. As I do hearing Welsh in the English border towns near where I live.


If Sinn Féin also happen or want to use or promote awareness of the language on a regular basis (along with thousands of others throughout Ireland and around the world who have absolutely nothing to do with Irish republicanism), that's their call. It's a tongue native to the island

Disngenuous. SF's use of the language in Stormont debates is a stunt, not a serious effort to promote it. Were it the latter, surely they would try to separate it from knockabout party politics . Instead of continuing a situation where most Unionists regard it with bored indifference at best.


I did enjoy the gag, by the way. It's very good. But tread carefully; I might add, that's your heritage too!

My pleasure. Remember, a strong heritage can always take a bit of gentle self-mockery ;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha, if only!

[Gather round]

PS I was at a vegan food festival last week and had a curried spinach pie for lunch. A Jamaican speciality, it was delicious.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So only curried yoghurt missing...

And you're not a vegan!

[Gather round]

Nor were many of the other customers or even some of the stallholders like me. It's like supporting the Irish Republic, all are welcome. Although we were asked not to sell any goods made from animal products.

[ArdeeBhoy]

?? :confused:

[DannyInvincible]

Disngenuous. SF's use of the language in Stormont debates is a stunt, not a serious effort to promote it. Were it the latter, surely they would try to separate it from knockabout party politics . Instead of continuing a situation where most Unionists regard it with bored indifference at best.

Certainly, along with the wish to use the language more, I'm sure there's an element of mild incitement there too, but if the language had been given the formal support and protection it was promised under the Good Friday and St. Andrew's Agreements, there might be less feeling of need for so many reminders as Gaeilge.

If only they did regard it with bored indifference, maybe they could let those interested in it get on with promoting it. It would seem to me that the DUP regard the language with open hostility.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Of course, but that's what the DUP are all about!

[ArdeeBhoy]

PS I was at a vegan food festival last week and had a curried spinach pie for lunch. A Jamaican speciality, it was delicious.

That is indeed his speciality. And many of them!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Sky, I mean 'Fox', 'news' sh*t-stirring....
http://www.joe.ie/football/pic-this-sky-sports-graphic-about-the-ireland-team-caused-quite-a-stir-this-morning/474910


Perhaps they have to have a look at numerous other sports teams...rugby and cricket are far worse! Including those in their own back yard.

[geysir]

Fwiw, we have 10 players in the squad born outside Ireland, Scotland have 7 or 8 born outside Scotland.
We have 3 players who rejected Scotland outright, the Scots have none of "ours".
We are just better in every way.

[DannyInvincible]

Sky, I mean 'Fox', 'news' sh*t-stirring....
http://www.joe.ie/football/pic-this-sky-sports-graphic-about-the-ireland-team-caused-quite-a-stir-this-morning/474910


Perhaps they have to have a look at numerous other sports teams...rugby and cricket are far worse! Including those in their own back yard.

Am in work and the graphic is blocked, but what's supposed to be the problem? We operate within the rules just like every other association.

[Olé Olé]

Wow. That graphic is pretty silly on their part. The two things I take umbrage with are the references to 'Northern Ireland' being the country of birth of two of our players (McClean and Gibson) and the motives behind doing it at all (clearly just seeking to incite the Irish).

The inference re Northern Ireland is either cheeky or ignorant but, given the historical gravity, neither is really acceptable. We just saw McClean write a letter the other day speaking about his identification as Irish, and we are all sufficiently aware of his utter right to do so.

As regards the two Scottish-born players in our squad, they clearly identify as being Irish. As a result, being born in Scotland is not really relevant to the discussion (I think this is the crux of one of DI's points i.e. identification supersedes birthplace, if I'm correct) because they never made themselves available to Scotland.

And what of England's current great white hope, Raheem Sterling, who was born in Jamaica? I doubt Sky mention that inconvenient truth. I can't wait to see the scenes when they spontaneously combust when Rory McIlroy wins a medal for Ireland at the Olympics.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Plus numerous others who've played for their football teams, tennis, cycled plus the mention in my earlier post.

[Olé Olé]

I guess the information in that graphic is all completely accurate, aside from the NI reference. That's what irks me. That is bordering on propaganda that is.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, it contains a list of 3 non-countries, one of which will never be, purely on economic grounds.