Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Not Brazil]

I got slightly mixed up in my thinking - Sam had named McClean, McAllister hadn't. Having said that the temptation to presume the allegations relate to McClean is very strong since he's the current eligibility poster boy. Regardless I was referring solely to McClean.

My inclination would be to think that any source would be a player(s) from a "nationalist background", who has (have) NOT made a switch to the South, and is (are) intent on continuing to play for Northern Ireland.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The IFA have not been "sniffing round anybody and everybody".

They have been seeking out players that are eligible to play for Northern Ireland - this, by definition, means British Citizens otherwise eligible to play for Northern Ireland, as per FIFA Statutes.
If you say so....

The evidence appears otherwise.

[Not Brazil]

The evidence appears otherwise.

Does it?

What evidence?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Look at all the players they've scratched around for over the years. It's your team. Find it out yourself!

[Not Brazil]

Look at all the players they've scratched around for over the years. It's your team. Find it out yourself!

Yip...all British Citizens, whom the IFA had reason to believe were eligible to play for Northern Ireland, in accordance with the FIFA Statutes.

I'm unaware of the IFA approaching any player who wasn't a British Citizen...are you?

[Closed Account]

Yip...all British Citizens, whom the IFA had reason to believe were eligible to play for Northern Ireland, in accordance with the FIFA Statutes.

I'm unaware of the IFA approaching any player who wasn't a British Citizen...are you?
ArdeeBhoy, I think you are fighting a losing battle here. Accusing the IFA of stretching the eligibility rules, coming from a devotee of the FAI, is calling the kettle black.

That being said. This is an equally applicable quote

Yip...all Irish Citizens, whom the FAI had reason to believe were eligible to play for Republic of Ireland, in accordance with the FIFA Statutes.

I'm unaware of the FAI approaching any player who wasn't an Irish Citizen...are you?



Edit:AB, that's twice in quick succession, I've appeared to correct/comment in response to you. Sorry:o
Nothing personal, but I will say that you are noticably antagonistic when talking to NB, EG or GR but more power to you, I quite enjoy your comments. Usually informed(if a little biased :) )

[geysir]

It would be quite thick of the IFA to be harrying players who were not British nationals.

The obvious point NB is, that no association has the sole right to contact a dual national player about their intentions.
The FAI are quite within their rights to contact a player who is eligible to play for the FAI.
But for the IFA to pester a player who has openly declared his affiliation to the FAI, not just once but on a number of occasions, is a bizarre open display of arrogance. And notwithstanding those openly declared intentions, promise to contact him again -- just in case.

To some people, it is beyond their realms of reason that McClean is not what he appears to be (a lad built like a brick shíthouse, with a mind of steel), but rather a young impressionable lad with his will broken down by resolute 'love bombing' by a team of FAI recruiters and hired experts possibly from a thought to be defunct branch of Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (the inquisition).
And all this resulted in what we can only describe as a successful 'Stepford' process where the player then (with a vacant stare) states to the world with monotone speech, that now his heart is with the FAI.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Fair enough JD, hopefully have reiterated my point, albeit rather clumsily?


Yip...all British Citizens, whom the IFA had reason to believe were eligible to play for Northern Ireland, in accordance with the FIFA Statutes.

I'm unaware of the IFA approaching any player who wasn't a British Citizen...are you?


Except you want to be careful if you want to be part of Britain's self-appointed 'master race' as they hand out passports to just about everyone.
Including plenty who have dual nationality (they weren't born there) and are all eligible for all their four 'teams'...

That's who the IFA (& Wales/Scotland) have scratched around for in the past. Even 'Ingerland' on occasion.
It's how Maik Taylor 'qualified', FFS.

[Not Brazil]

Except you want to be careful if you want to be part of Britain's self-appointed 'master race' as they hand out passports to just about everyone.
Including plenty who have dual nationality (they weren't born there) and are all eligible for all their four 'teams'...

That's who the IFA (& Wales/Scotland) have scratched around for in the past. Even 'Ingerland' on occasion.

It's how Maik Taylor 'qualified', FFS.

Anyone born outside of Northern Ireland, holding British Citizenship, would need to meet the eligibility criterion laid out in FIFA Eligibility Statutes 6 or 7.

I would remind you, again, that whilst British Citizenship is a prerequisite to play for Northern Ireland, holding a British Passport is not.

Maik Taylor would not be eligible to play for Northern Ireland under the current eligibility rules.

You really need to brush up on your research.

[Olé Olé]

It's how Maik Taylor 'qualified', FFS.

And Dele Adebola!

[Not Brazil]

But for the IFA to pester a player who has openly declared his affiliation to the FAI, not just once but on a number of occasions, is a bizarre open display of arrogance. And notwithstanding those openly declared intentions, promise to contact him again -- just in case.


You're preaching to the converted on that issue, although I don't think it was a display of arrogance.

I cringed when I heard of the approaches made to those who have indicated their desire to play for the South.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hang on, you keep wittering on about a country called 'The South'.
Where's your research?
Lol.

[Predator]

The Sunday Life twitter page just said:

Only in Sunday Life: After Robinson's attendance at a GAA match, will Sinn Fein now go the extra mile and support the IFA in FAI row? #GAWA (https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23GAWA)

Dear oh dear.

[Charlie Darwin]

I reckon they will. Everything about Martin McGuinness's presidential campaign just screamed ​our wee country.

[Sullivinho]

#cliffhanger!

[Not Brazil]

The Sunday Life twitter page just said:

Only in Sunday Life: After Robinson's attendance at a GAA match, will Sinn Fein now go the extra mile and support the IFA in FAI row? #GAWA (https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23GAWA)

Dear oh dear.

Paul Ferguson has a two page spread on that theme in the Sunday Life today.

I think he's now completely lost the plot.

[Not Brazil]

Hang on, you keep wittering on about a country called 'The South'.
Where's your research?
Lol.

Marc Wilson.

He's quoted by Ciaran O'Raghallaigh in the Sunday Life today:

"Growing up I always wanted to play for the south. My family have always supported the south, and it has been my ambition since I was a kid. The same as Darron. And I haven't done anything wrong in declaring for the south".

Lol.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well, you're as ignorant as each other then.
:rolleyes:

[Predator]

Marc Wilson.

He's quoted by Ciaran O'Raghallaigh in the Sunday Life today:

"Growing up I always wanted to play for the south. My family have always supported the south, and it has been my ambition since I was a kid. The same as Darron. And I haven't done anything wrong in declaring for the south".

Lol.I can't blame poor Wilson for using such terminology really, seeing as he may have been offered a loaded question. I'd suspect that the editor (Ferguson), might have had the final say there. Pure conjecture though, obviously.


Paul Ferguson has a two page spread on that theme in the Sunday Life today.

I think he's now completely lost the plot.Would there be any chance that you could scan a copy of it up here? I'm not in a position to access the SL at the moment. 2 pages - there must be something worthy of consideration.

[Not Brazil]

I can't blame poor Wilson for using such terminology really, seeing as he may have been offered a loaded question. I'd suspect that the editor (Ferguson), might have had the final say there. Pure conjecture though, obviously.

Would there be any chance that you could scan a copy of it up here? I'm not in a position to access the SL at the moment. 2 pages - there must be something worthy of consideration.

The piece which quoted Wilson by O'Raghallaigh was headed The Eligibility Row View From The Republic - Republic enjoys support from all over Ireland.

I don't have access to a scanner at the moment.

Ferguson's piece is poor - in keeping with tradition.

[The Fly]

Well, you're as ignorant as each other then.
:rolleyes:

Know when to stop.

[Predator]

Lifted from OWC. Paul Rowan is on the wrong track altogether, here.


Goal poachers
Northern Irish football chiefs are crying foul as young stars switch allegiance to the republic. Are the players simply seeking a bigger stage – or is there a deeper issue
Paul Rowan Published: 4 February 2012
Recommend (0) Comment (0)PrintFollow News O’Kane represented Northern Ireland at every age level, but has turned his back on the side
T he name Eunan O’Kane will strike a chord with only the most dedicated Irish football fan. His story, though, is becoming increasingly familiar. He is one of the growing legion of footballers to switch allegiance from Northern Ireland to play for the Republic of Ireland.

Like many of the other northerners to turn their back on the country where they played under-age football, O’Kane, from Feeny in Derry, is a Catholic. His decision, as well as those of other Catholics of his generation, is not only threatening to sour relations between the island’s two football associations and rival fans, it is also likely to turn the Northern Ireland team into a Catholic-free outfit.

Currently plying his trade at Torquay United, following a spell with Everton, O’Kane represented Northern Ireland at every age level, up to under-21 level, but turned his back on the team last July and declared for the republic.

“I was given the option that if I was interested in playing for the republic then there were opportunities to do that,” he said. “People got in touch with me who had been speaking to Noel King, the [Republic of Ireland] under-21 manager, and he had asked questions about me and they then relayed that back to me.

“They made it clear he was interested in speaking to me if I was interested in speaking to him, and it has gone from there. We spoke on the phone and we then met up.”

So who were these intermediaries?

“I don’t want to say that,” says O’Kane. “I don’t want to get people into trouble. They don’t want anything to do with it and if I was them I wouldn’t want anything to do with it either.”

Shadowy intermediaries, secret meetings, agents, political posturing and a paper trail leading to Zurich may sound like a reworking of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. These are the elements, however, that make up the increasingly bitter fight between the two football associations as they wrangle over the best young footballing talent on the island.

The Irish Football Association (IFA) in Belfast is crying foul over the increasingly predatory tendencies of the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) towards some of the best players born in the north. At the same time, it is being forced to ask itself awkward questions about why a growing number of Catholics no longer want to play for Northern Ireland.

“We are a small nation and the republic has twice as many people and twice as many resources financially,” said Gerry Armstrong, a former Northern Ireland player who has been hired by the IFA to stop the drain of talent to its more glamorous and successful neighbour. “They are tapping up our players and it is a kick in the teeth for us.”

A quick look at the Premier League in England makes clear the scale of Armstrong’s task. An Everton side that faced Blackburn Rovers at Goodison Park last month featured two players born in the north who have “defected” to the south; Darron Gibson and Shane Duffy. Both would be shoo-ins for Northern Ireland who, as it stands, can claim only four Premier League players of their own.

Gibson’s declaration for the republic in 2006 signalled the start of the tug-of-war between the two associations, one which eventually ended up in the international sports courts and is now being fought with renewed vigour in Ireland.

[BonnieShels]

Right...

I can't take any more of this Catholic being synonymous with Nationalist crap. FFS.

Secondly, we need to eradicate the term "switching allegiance" in this context.
Any player born in Derry, Antrim, Armagh, Tyrone, Down or Fermanagh who wishes to play for the FAI's representative team has that allegiance and that allegiance alone. Otherwise they would play with the IFA's team!

[co. down green]

More of the usual ill-informed nonsense from Ferguson in today's Sunday life.

"FIFA should remember it was their President Sepp Blatter who started the political row by using the Good Friday Agreement to allow players born in Northern Ireland who hold an Irish passport to represent the Republic" :tongue:

[Not Brazil]

Right...

I can't take any more of this Catholic being synonymous with Nationalist crap any more. FFS.

Secondly, we need to eradicate the term "switching allegiance" in this context.
Any player born in Derry, Antrim, Armagh, Tyrone, Down or Fermanagh who wishes to play for the FAI's representative team has that allegiance and that allegiance alone. Otherwise they would play with the IFA's team!

I agree whoeheartedly with you viz a viz the "Catholic" thing.

I think you need to understand that those players who have represented The IFA before going to the FAI, have, in fact, "switched allegiance". There's nothing sinister in that description.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha. At the Bl*tter reference!

[ArdeeBhoy]

I think you need to understand that those players who have represented The IFA before going to the FAI, have, in fact, "switched allegiance". There's nothing sinister in that description.
But the point is, no matter how 'unreasonable' it might seem to the IFA or any other national association (or their fans) for that matter, FIFA have deemed it otherwise.

As in has been repeated umpteen times before, they remain eligible until they've played in a full competitive game.

Personally I feel the system has been abused far more blatantly by various African and Arabian associations far more than anything the FAI could ever do...
Simply because there's far more ambiguity about who players are eligible for, clouded by residency qualification and past colonial ties.

And not intended as having a go at anyone in particular, merely using this quote to reiterate the point.

[BonnieShels]

I agree whoeheartedly with you viz a viz the "Catholic" thing.

I think you need to understand that those players who have represented The IFA before going to the FAI, have, in fact, "switched allegiance". There's nothing sinister in that description.


I know where you are coming from NB.

And I do understand that these lads have played for the IFA's team before; and I have pointed out in the past that I always felt that that was a matter of the convenience for them to do so than say for them to travel to Dublin etc to represent their actual national team.
A solution to this is easily sorted but clearly would not be accepted by the OWC heads.

But there seems to be this idea that the conniving FAI are forcing these poor wee boys to change their minds and therefore "allegiances" (in my interpretation of the word) to play for a pot of gold at the end of Trap's rainbow. It's wearing thin. Very thin.
The emotive terms of tug-of-war, poaching etc. don't allow you to assume that they are using allegiance in any other way than a trite statement of the fickleness of these wee boys and their desperate attitude to their "mother" country.

[Not Brazil]

I always felt that that was a matter of the convenience for them to do so than say for them to travel to Dublin etc to represent their actual national team.
A solution to this is easily sorted but clearly would not be accepted by the OWC heads.


It will not surprise you that I am firmly in the "you won't be playing for Northern Ireland, solely as a matter of convenience" camp.

I want such players weeded out of our system, as far as possible.

What is the "easy" solution to which you refer?

[Not Brazil]

But the point is, no matter how 'unreasonable' it might seem to the IFA or any other national association (or their fans) for that matter, FIFA have deemed it otherwise.

As in has been repeated umpteen times before, they remain eligible until they've played in a full competitive game.


Yes...we know all of that.

[awec]

Is there any point in me reading back to catch up, or is it just page after page of the usual?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes...we know all of that.

So why do people continually gurn on about it? They'd be better off lobbying the gnomes of Zurich than wasting time moaning to people who aren't especially interested. Especially given our own experience of that same organization...

[BonnieShels]

Is there any point in me reading back to catch up, or is it just page after page of the usual?


There's been some good schtick of late. Depends on where you left us. Where the hell did ya disappear to?


It will not surprise you that I am firmly in the "you won't be playing for Northern Ireland, solely as a matter of convenience" camp.

I want such players weeded out of our system, as far as possible.

What is the "easy" solution to which you refer?

I probably should qualify my usage of the word "easily" and substitute it with a meaning of "obviously". I once advocated the idea designated FAI training camps in say Derry, Newry and Belfast. This would have the desired effect of "weeding" out the wee traitors much earlier on in the process. Would the OWB approve?

WE could reciprocate with IFA camps in Bandon, Greystones and Rossnowlagh?

I'm not surprised by your stance at all. Especially as I knew that already. Also I would be of the same persuasion in that regard. However how the hell do you "weed" out a 8-9-10-11-12 year old?
A person's politics is not formed (generally) at such a young age. I take it for granted that the poor souls growing up on Sandy Row and Falls never had a chance. :) But seriously, That will only further ingrain the ridiculous sense of "us" and "them" that pervades society on this island.

[gastric]

It will not surprise you that I am firmly in the "you won't be playing for Northern Ireland, solely as a matter of convenience" camp.

I want such players weeded out of our system, as far as possible.

What is the "easy" solution to which you refer?

You lot tried that before - the plantation system I believe it was called. Basically squatters came over and took our land. It didn't work then and won't work now. Individual choice at any age is allowable and understandable.

[Not Brazil]

I probably should qualify my usage of the word "easily" and substitute it with a meaning of "obviously". I once advocated the idea designated FAI training camps in say Derry, Newry and Belfast..

Just have them in places like Donegal and Dundalk.

Or, does the "dream" not extend a few miles?

[Not Brazil]

However how the hell do you "weed" out a 8-9-10-11-12 year old.

Aged 18 and above will do me for weeding out.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Is there any point in me reading back to catch up, or is it just page after page of the usual?

Yes. We've decided to set up a joint diplomatic mission to locate 'Ealing Green...
:rolleyes:

[Not Brazil]

But seriously, That will only further ingrain the ridiculous sense of "us" and "them" that pervades society on this island.

You obviously do irony very well.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aged 18 and above will do me for weeding out.

Except some organization called FIFA (& The CAS et al) disagree. Take it you've not heard of them...

[Not Brazil]

You lot tried that before - the plantation system I believe it was called. Basically squatters came over and took our land. It didn't work then and won't work now.

Dear God.

Sad lad.

[BonnieShels]

Just have them in places like Donegal and Dundalk.

Or, does the "dream" not extend a few miles?

I'm presuming you mean Lifford? Donegal is hardly convenient. :P

We could do that I suppose. I prefer my plan though for stoking the fires. :O

[BonnieShels]

Except some organization called FIFA (& The CAS et al) disagree. Take it you've not heard of them...

Ah AB, come on, read what went before. You knew what he meant.

[Not Brazil]

Except some organization called FIFA (& The CAS et al) disagree. Take it you've not heard of them...

Oh, I have.

However, it's in the gift of the IFA to weed out those who play for them out of "convenience".

Follow your dream - ASAP.

[Not Brazil]

I'm presuming you mean Lifford? Donegal is hardly convenient. :P

We could do that I suppose. I prefer my plan though for stoO

Lifford is good too.

Donegal is closer to Derry than Belfast.

Why would "united" Irelanders want to "stoke the fires"?

[ArdeeBhoy]

With respect to NB and other aspiring gardeners I'll refer to post #2732 above. Somehow doubt FIFA will look kindly on revisiting the whole debate when they've already adjudicated on it, backed by the CAS, for the foreseeable future.

Or perhaps certain people also expect them to also rewrite the GFA also...
:rolleyes:

[DannyInvincible]

His decision, as well as those of other Catholics of his generation, is not only threatening to sour relations between the island’s two football associations and rival fans, it is also likely to turn the Northern Ireland team into a Catholic-free outfit.

This is just hysterical and alarmist scaremongering.

Anyway, must we assume the upkeep of good cross-community relations takes precedence over all else these days? Cross-community relations aren't necessarily the be all and the end all. I hope I'm not committing a grave faux pas. :rolleyes:

Some people will always be offended by something. It's not a player's/the FAI's duty to keep everyone in NI happy. These players prioritise the expression of their national identity over keeping NI fans/individuals from the other community happy; not that I'd advocate someone setting out to offend someone for no other sake, but this expression, of which causing offence might be a by-product or consequence, must be accepted as their discretion.


So who were these intermediaries?

“I don’t want to say that,” says O’Kane. “I don’t want to get people into trouble. They don’t want anything to do with it and if I was them I wouldn’t want anything to do with it either.”

Shadowy intermediaries, secret meetings, agents, political posturing and a paper trail leading to Zurich may sound like a reworking of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. These are the elements, however, that make up the increasingly bitter fight between the two football associations as they wrangle over the best young footballing talent on the island.

There's nothing underhand going on here. It's all within the rules and choice was ultimately still O'Kane's, as Noel King rightly points out. Naming these intermediaries might get them into "trouble" with disgruntled NI supporters, but they aren't doing anything wrong, as far as FIFA are concerned.


The Irish Football Association (IFA) in Belfast is crying foul over the increasingly predatory tendencies of the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) towards some of the best players born in the north.

Good lord. Is this just accepted as fact now?

Anyway, there's nothing "foul" going on.


“We are a small nation and the republic has twice as many people and twice as many resources financially,” said Gerry Armstrong, a former Northern Ireland player who has been hired by the IFA to stop the drain of talent to its more glamorous and successful neighbour. “They are tapping up our players and it is a kick in the teeth for us.”

Armstrong is one to talk about tapping up players. All of this is pretty much irrelevant, self-pitying twaddle anyway. Is the insinuation that FIFA should favour the IFA because they are a smaller/financially-weaker association than the FAI? Should they hand out favours and grant exceptions to other small associations too? Attempting to relate to this issue the relative "glamour" and "success" of the FAI is also to intentionally obfuscate matters. It implies these players are making mercenary decisions and conceals the reality that they merely seek to express (or better express) their national identity.


Gibson’s declaration for the republic in 2006 signalled the start of the tug-of-war between the two associations, one which eventually ended up in the international sports courts and is now being fought with renewed vigour in Ireland.

Fought with renewed vigour? By whom? Gary Mac and the AONISC? :bulgy:

[DannyInvincible]

Lifford is good too.

Donegal is closer to Derry than Belfast.

C'mon, NB; be reasonable with the lads. Have you seen the Donegal pot-holes?!

[BonnieShels]

Lifford is good too.

Donegal is closer to Derry than Belfast.

Why would "united" Irelanders want to "stoke the fires"?

I'm an Irelander. Nothing more nothing less. I was making such a comment in jest. Some on. Don't go all AB on me.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hey, mine are mainly in jest too...

[BonnieShels]

That ellipsis says otherwise...

:)