Eligibility Rules, Okay

[CraftyToePoke]

you want to scrap your team and follow some other makey-uppy effort?

I preface this by saying its not intended to be as goading as it first reads, but us all coming through an education system which regards the north itself as the makey uppy thing which should not have existed has an influence on that probably.

And it was, y'know, makey uppy ta fcuk. Gerrymandering masterclass.

[EalingGreen]

I preface this by saying its not intended to be as goading as it first reads, but us all coming through an education system which regards the north itself as the makey uppy thing which should not have existed has an influence on that probably.

And it was, y'know, makey uppy ta fcuk. Gerrymandering masterclass.I have no more interest in your personal politics than you (presumably) have in mine, for to do so would sorely miss the point.

For as I frequently feel forced to point out*, these national football teams do not represent "countries", however you care to define the latter, rather they (former) represent National Associations, in your case the FAI, in mine the IFA.

And as such, I am perfectly happy to carry on supporting my team, whether we win, draw or lose, with no more interest in following an all-Ireland team than an all-UK one.

Now if your education causes you to mix politics and sport (imo unnecessarily and unhelpfully), and so demand an all-Ireland team, then knock yourself out. For not only is it pretty pointless after 103 years(!), but the irony is that due to your government's (if I may say so) idiosyncratic and irridentist take on nationality etc, you are entitled to exploit FIFA's eligibility rules and construct a de facto all-Ireland team anyhow!

So that if our players aren't good enough for your team, then what is the problem? While if they are good enough, but you cannot persuade them to play for you, then that decidedly is your problem, not ours!

Either way, your advocacy of an all-Ireland team would deny the likes of Conor Bradley a choice as to who he represents, whereas I accept and respect his right to choose. So which of us is the "gerrymanderer" there, eh?


* - See eg post #5: https://foot.ie/threads/295930-UEFA-Regions-Cup-Qualifiers-2024

[liamoo11]

I have no more interest in your personal politics than you (presumably) have in mine, for to do so would sorely miss the point.

For as I frequently feel forced to point out*, these national football teams do not represent "countries", however you care to define the latter, rather they (former) represent National Associations, in your case the FAI, in mine the IFA.

And as such, I am perfectly happy to carry on supporting my team, whether we win, draw or lose, with no more interest in following an all-Ireland team than an all-UK one.

Now if your education causes you to mix politics and sport (imo unnecessarily and unhelpfully), and so demand an all-Ireland team, then knock yourself out. For not only is it pretty pointless after 103 years(!), but the irony is that due to your government's (if I may say so) idiosyncratic and irridentist take on nationality etc, you are entitled to exploit FIFA's eligibility rules and construct a de facto all-Ireland team anyhow!

So that if our players aren't good enough for your team, then what is the problem? While if they are good enough, but you cannot persuade them to play for you, then that decidedly is your problem, not ours!

Either way, your advocacy of an all-Ireland team would deny the likes of Conor Bradley a choice as to who he represents, whereas I accept and respect his right to choose. So which of us is the "gerrymanderer" there, eh?


* - See eg post #5: https://foot.ie/threads/295930-UEFA-Regions-Cup-Qualifiers-2024

Isn't there a thread about eligibility that's been ruined by all this nonsense could rhe 17s thread be left to football?

[EalingGreen]

Isn't there a thread about eligibility that's been ruined by all this nonsense could rhe 17s thread be left to football?Actually, it's not about eligibility per se, it's about an all-Ireland team.

Which subject was first brought up and perpetuated by some of your fellow ROI fans, who were looking at NI's U-17's and speculating on their possibly representing ROI etc - see posts #11, 13, 15, 16, 22, 23, 25 and 28.

So that if they didn't keep bringing this up after every run of poor results etc, maybe you could just get on with following your team, while I could follow mine?

[liamoo11]

Actually, it's not about eligibility per se, it's about an all-Ireland team.

Which subject was first brought up and perpetuated by some of your fellow ROI fans, who were looking at NI's U-17's and speculating on their possibly representing ROI etc - see posts #11, 13, 15, 16, 22, 23, 25 and 28.

So that if they didn't keep bringing this up after every run of poor results etc, maybe you could just get on with following your team, while I could follow mine?

This thread though is about our under 17s .Some of the players representing the North may represent us in the future and some of ours may represent other international sides in the future also that's the game. The rest of the philosophical nonsense just clogs up the thread and just rehashes what's been discussed previously in the eligibility thread or some similiar thread. Can't you just revive those thread s and post in it for this stuff and leave this thread to the actual football ?

[EalingGreen]

This thread though is about our under 17s .Some of the players representing the North may represent us in the future and some of ours may represent other international sides in the future also that's the game. The rest of the philosophical nonsense just clogs up the thread and just rehashes what's been discussed previously in the eligibility thread or some similiar thread. Can't you just revive those thread s and post in it for this stuff and leave this thread to the actual football ?I was merely responding to those of your fellow ROI fans who originally brought up the subject of an all-Ireland team on this thread, so why don't you address your plea to them?

For if they stop doing so, then I won't feel obliged to keep pointing out why their suggestion of unilaterally doing away with the team I have been supporting for over half a century, from Belfast to Belarus, Croatia to Kazakhstan, is so offensive to me and my fellow NI fans.

Or am I not permitted to respond? You know, as one of those people that they claim they want to unite [sic] with?

[Eirambler]

The only person bombarding us with lengthy posts about it is you. It's no harm at all to have a poster or two on here who has alternative views to the rest of the group, the equivalent forum for the north would benefit from it too if it was tolerated there. But maybe next time a friendly suggestion would be to not take the bait so easily on stuff like this.

[EalingGreen]

The only person bombarding us with lengthy posts about it is you. It's no harm at all to have a poster or two on here who has alternative views to the rest of the group, the equivalent forum for the north would benefit from it too if it was tolerated there. But maybe next time a friendly suggestion would be to not take the bait so easily on stuff like this.
There are two matters here.

1. Under FIFA Rules, letter and principle, it is simply impossible for them to permit one NT drawn from two separate, independent nation states. And even should Ireland become united (and I'm not holding my breath on that one), it is by no means guaranteed that the FAI and IFA would be forced to merge - as the continued existence of the Hong Kong and Macao NT's demonstrates.
Yet despite this, the same witless posters routinely bring up this tired old notion every time ROI loses a few games (though never while they're winning). Pathetic.

2. These self-same people seeking "unity" utterly fail to understand just how antagonising, therefore self-defeating, such calls are, since rather than a voluntary merger of equals, you just know that what they really mean is to keep essentially the same old FAI team, only with a couple of added Northerners. Which must mean the destruction of the same NI team (over 100 years old) plus the IFA, (144 years old), which I and so many others have followed all our lives. Cannot you/they not understand just how utterly unacceptable/offensive this is?
I mean, would you like your team, club or NT, to be taken away from you against your will?

Therefore so long as there are people in ROI periodically calling for an all-Ireland team in these circumstances, then NI fans will continue to push back. Get used to it.

[CraftyToePoke]

You will be assimilated.

The GFA & the de facto all Ireland team already in existence and all the yadda yadda about Hong Kong won't change that. There will be one resting point in this, an acceptable one to nationalist Ireland, the rest is just stages on that journey.

Quote whatever polls you like now there & demographics while you're at it.

You will be assimilated.

[Predator]

The "same witless posters", eh?

In the interests of parity of esteem, surely aspiration to - and therefore discussion of - a unified Ireland team is just as legitimate as wanting to keep a team for the IFA? Claiming it's "antagonistic" and "offensive" to simply want a united Ireland team in football is just another way to shut down the discussion. You might well mourn the end of an institution. Go ahead, change is tough. But the FAI, and team, as it was will change in this future too.

FIFA could suddenly make some changes (they have been chopping and changing a lot lately) but I don't think a unified team will come before political unity. When that happens, to bring it back somewhat on topic, it will be interesting to see if British nationality alone would permit a player to play for the unified team, for a period. Or if those 'marooned' in the new Ireland could opt to play for another British team...

[Olé Olé]

Come. On. The. EYE EFF EH, Come on the EYE EFF EH, Come on the EYE, Come on the EYE EFF EHHHHHHH.

[EalingGreen]

In the interests of parity of esteem, surely aspiration to - and therefore discussion of - a unified Ireland team is just as legitimate as wanting to keep a team for the IFA?I could "aspire to" an 8 inch penis, but unless I'm going to have 2 inches cut off, it simply isn't going to happen.

Just as you can aspire to an all-Ireland team, but unless or until there is a single Irish state, then your aspiration for a single team simply cannot, and will not, happen. On which footballing point I don't know whether the "aspirers" simply do not understand how such things work in the game, or are wilfully ignoring it. Possibly both?


Claiming it's "antagonistic" and "offensive" to simply want a united Ireland team in football is just another way to shut down the discussion. You might well mourn the end of an institution. Go ahead, change is tough. But the FAI, and team, as it was will change in this future too.
There is no "discussion", at least where it counts i.e. in the offices of FIFA.

For while FIFA will permit a single Nation State to have eg four Member Associations (UK), three (eg China) or two (eg Denmark), they have never in their 120 year history* permitted two or more separate Nation States to merge their Associations into one, nor will they ever do so.

As for "offence", how would you like it if someone told you that Derry City must eg revert to membership of the Irish League, without your having any say in the matter? You'd be outraged too -understandably enough - despite your team at least continuing to exist, unlike the NI team under your aspiration.

While the FAI they may do whatever they like, for since they have NO power to realise your aspiration, that's no concern of mine.


* - In order to understand better how these things really work, you might want to read eg the history of the Saarland national football team, which was even permitted by FIFA to enter the 1954 World Cup Qualifiers, despite only being a Protectorate of France, not an integral part. Such that until France agreed that the territory could become part of the FRG, the Germans had no say in its status and could not incorporate it into the West German FA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saarland_national_football_team




FIFA could suddenly make some changes (they have been chopping and changing a lot lately) but I don't think a unified team will come before political unity. When that happens, to bring it back somewhat on topic, it will be interesting to see if British nationality alone would permit a player to play for the unified team, for a period. Or if those 'marooned' in the new Ireland could opt to play for another British team...That which you've written in bold is meaningless verbiage, while the rest is, well, whatever you want it to be - good luck with it anyhow. :rolleyes:

[EalingGreen]

You will be assimilated.

The GFA & the de facto all Ireland team already in existence and all the yadda yadda about Hong Kong won't change that. There will be one resting point in this, an acceptable one to nationalist Ireland, the rest is just stages on that journey.

Quote whatever polls you like now there & demographics while you're at it.

You will be assimilated.Spoken like a love-struck teenage boy who's determined that the girl next door will go out with him, despite her not having the slightest bit interest* in him.

Or to quote the artiste Brooksie, popular I believe with the young people of today: "She's just not into you" :)


* - Something to do with the weedy physique, the greasy hair and the buck teeth)

[Fixer82]

Spoken like a love-struck teenage boy who's determined that the girl next door will go out with him, despite her not having the slightest bit interest* in him.

Or to quote the artiste Brooksie, popular I believe with the young people of today: "She's just not into you" :)


* - Something to do with the weedy physique, the greasy hair and the buck teeth)

While I ultimately disagree, this is a wonderful post ;)

[elatedscum]

Did anyone see that tackle by Conor Bradley on Mbappe? **** it, time for a border poll. That’d be a better Sinn Fein slogan: Make Conor eligible again

We have an unbelievable way to lose transformational players, I know someone who has been a friend of Conor’s family since before Conor was born - he said to me years ago, it was just unbelievable how the FAI ****ed it up. We all joke about “ours to lose” but Bradley, a GAA playing gaelgeoir, who refused to stand for GSTQ as an u16, who’s been on amateurs radars since he was 14 - awful from the association. Right up there with Martin O’Neill’s handling of Rice and Grealish

[seanfhear]

Did anyone see that tackle by Conor Bradley on Mbappe? **** it, time for a border poll. That’d be a better Sinn Fein slogan: Make Conor eligible again

We have an unbelievable way to lose transformational players, I know someone who has been a friend of Conor’s family since before Conor was born - he said to me years ago, it was just unbelievable how the FAI ****ed it up. We all joke about “ours to lose” but Bradley, a GAA playing gaelgeoir, who refused to stand for GSTQ as an u16, who’s been on amateurs radars since he was 14 - awful from the association. Right up there with Martin O’Neill’s handling of Rice and Grealish
Worse than the Rice/ Grealish situations.

[nigel-harps1954]

Did anyone see that tackle by Conor Bradley on Mbappe? **** it, time for a border poll. That’d be a better Sinn Fein slogan: Make Conor eligible again

We have an unbelievable way to lose transformational players, I know someone who has been a friend of Conor’s family since before Conor was born - he said to me years ago, it was just unbelievable how the FAI ****ed it up. We all joke about “ours to lose” but Bradley, a GAA playing gaelgeoir, who refused to stand for GSTQ as an u16, who’s been on amateurs radars since he was 14 - awful from the association. Right up there with Martin O’Neill’s handling of Rice and Grealish

The difference is, Bradley was taken in by the north very young, and was never going to change allegiance. Fiercely loyal lad.

[Eirambler]

To be honest, in Bradley's case it's the player I feel sorry for more than anything. He'll probably win 100 caps and achieve nothing in his international career. Of course club success will matter much more to most players, and probably even more so to him, but there's a chance we could have a really strong international team in a couple of years time that he could have been a part of.

Playing for the north must feel like such a dead end, is it only one tournament qualification in about 40 years they've had? Where we've had six in the same time period, and have a big advantage in terms of 2028 ahead of us also?

I get it for the players on the nationalist side who recognise they won't be good enough to play for us, but Bradley will just end up spending his international career trying and most likely failing to carry his team to tournament finals, with even the short cut to Euro 2028 now taken off him. Maybe, if anything comes out of it, it will be a lesson for other northern nationalists to back themselves until such time as it becomes clear they're not at the level required. They can always do a Ronan Hale and switch to the north if and when that point comes, no need for them to be tying themselves to anyone as a teenager.

[seanfhear]

A United Ireland might save him :) :p

[John83]

Finally, a reason to vote for the Shinners.

[liamoo11]

The difference is, Bradley was taken in by the north very young, and was never going to change allegiance. Fiercely loyal lad.

I agree ultimately hos decision. I saw him play victory shield against us in Kerry years ago played midfield so it wasn't like he wasn't known. Clearly just choose to stay loyal to the North so can't see what people want the Fai to have done? You can't force him to come on board .

[EalingGreen]

To be honest, in Bradley's case it's the player I feel sorry for more than anything. He'll probably win 100 caps and achieve nothing in his international career.Yeah, Conor must be looking at the likes of (103 cap) James McClean and thinking "Damn! If only I hadn't allowed myself to be tied to NI, I maybe could have achieved all the international medals and trophies he has on his mantelpiece."



I get it for the players on the nationalist side who...What you need to "get" is that for the present generation of youngsters, the likes of Sean Moore or Kone Doherty are the exception not the rule, the default position being that they play for NI.

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/conor-bradley-speaks-family-pride-30125979

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1055327849460278

https://www.tiktok.com/@northernireland/video/7425272687611645217

[Eirambler]

Well of course, as the reality is that most of them won't be good enough to play for Ireland. Indeed TKD and Moore may well end up with the north, and that's fine, but at least they've backed themselves to have a go with us before settling for that. The same as Hale.

Players will always speak about their pride for playing for whatever country they play for, these lads are well trained in terms of media work. Bradley may even believe that now to some extent. Lennon was almost certainly saying similar back in the day. It's very rare to get an example like Niall McGinn where a player admits during his career that he'd support another team over the one he plays for. Indeed saying that publicly would be unwise. I expect it's in 10 or 15 years time that the regrets are likely to come.

[Buckett]

It's the same for ordinary citizens up there, they probably say out loud that they like it in the north but deep down, they must be miserable living in an impoverished kip. The only good thing in their lives is a football pyramid that's the envy of the rest of the world

[EalingGreen]

Players will always speak about their pride for playing for whatever country they play for, these lads are well trained in terms of media work. Bradley may even believe that now to some extent.Jeez, had you even a modicum of self-awareness, you'd realise just how incredibly patronising those comments are.



Lennon was almost certainly saying similar back in the day."Back in the day"?

Here is what NL said in 2022 in relation to the death threat he received i.e. 20 years after the event: "I’m proud of my (40) caps but felt like I could have won an awful lot more. I just wish those who instigated [the threat] realised what playing for Northern Ireland meant to me.”
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/neil-lennon-on-what-playing-for-northern-ireland-meant-to-me-as-ex-celtic-boss-reflects-on-threat-that-ended-international-career/41356549.html

And here is what he said after the first NI game following his transfer to Celtic, which earlier event had caused some [Rangers] fans amongst the NI support to boo him:
"I'm really sorry for the lads [that we lost]because the efforts they put in were magnificent.
"But the support out there today from the fans was brilliant.
"That is what Northern Ireland football should be all about.
"The atmosphere today was as good as it's ever been since I've been involved with Northern Ireland," added Lennon.
The home fans sang `There's only one Neil Lennon' at the end and manager Sammy McIlroy was delighted at the response of the 10,000 crowd.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2002/1240496.stm

While here is what he said in 2007:
GLASGOW Celtic captain Neil Lennon has commended the Irish Football Association for having its first ever Football For All (FFA) awards night to reward volunteers who have made a special contribution to football.
Lennon praised the Northern Ireland fans, and in particular Football For All Outstanding Achievement award winner Stewart McAfee, for the work they have carried out to create a more inclusive atmosphere at international games.
"People like Stewart are the unsung heroes who have been brave enough to challenge sectarianism and who have actively created a more fun, safe and family orientated atmosphere at international games," said the Lurgan man.
"Fans like Stewart have made the atmosphere at Northern Ireland football games in recent years the envy of fans across not only Europe, but world football.
"From a personal point of view I would like to thank them for their efforts."
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Stars+praise+unsung+hero+awards+night%3B+FOOTBALL+ FOR+ALL.-a0159840771



It's very rare to get an example like Niall McGinn where a player admits during his career that he'd support another team over the one he plays for. Indeed saying that publicly would be unwise. I expect it's in 10 or 15 years time that the regrets are likely to come.All NI fans ever ask is that our players show honesty and effort when they don the green shirt. Which is why then Derry City player Niall, who typified those qualities throughout his NI career, received such a rousing cheer from the fans when he came off the bench for his debut at Windsor, before going on to become one of the most popular players we ever had:
https://www.facebook.com/story.php/?story_fbid=1537316439900611&id=1414633852168871&_rdr

And by the same token, Marc Wilson never received any adverse reaction when opting for ROI instead of NI, since he was honest from the start.

Mind you, I wonder whether eg all those English-born players who've opted for ROI knowing that they would never have got near the England team have been similarly candid?

Or whether you subject them to the same criticism?

[EalingGreen]

It's the same for ordinary citizens up there, they probably say out loud that they like it in the north but deep down, they must be miserable living in an impoverished kip. The only good thing in their lives is a football pyramid that's the envy of the rest of the worldIsn't it lucky, then, that all 2 million of those people have someone like you to articulate what we should really think - if only we had your intelligence, awareness and generosity of soul.

Thank you, thank you deeply, for this wonderful public service.

[John83]

A little reminder that this is a thread for discussing eligible players, and not whether or not Northern Ireland is resplendant/a kip/etc. Ye can do that in off topic if ye want.

[EalingGreen]

A little reminder that this is a thread for discussing eligible players, and not whether or not Northern Ireland is resplendant/a kip/etc. Ye can do that in off topic if ye want.
Suits me.

But be aware that if/when others of those from amongst the "Usual Suspects" seek to drag the debate in such a direction on these threads, seemingly without sanction, you can expect me to have my say in response.

If nothing else, it illustrates the double standards of moderation on this board, whereby if I were to post something completely unfounded and offensive against one of your managers or players in the same way eg Bingham and McDonald received recently; or indeed slander the entire ROI population with stereotypical sh!te like 'Buckett' (above), then I'm pretty sure the post would be removed and I'd be suspended pronto.

[Eirambler]

Jeez, had you even a modicum of self-awareness, you'd realise just how incredibly patronising those comments are.

Mind you, I wonder whether eg all those English-born players who've opted for ROI knowing that they would never have got near the England team have been similarly candid?

Or whether you subject them to the same criticism?

Not patronising, just honest. Players realistically can't be in most cases, once they've made their bed they have to lie in it (and in the case of the north bow their heads and stand in a kind of dejected looking silence while their teammates sing for their king).

The only person I'm being critical of really is Bradley, because I think he'll regret his decision in the future (though he'll perhaps never admit it). But even then it's more that I feel bad for him than I'm critical of him as such. Bradley's position is irrelevant to any of the English born lads who play for Ireland, as - let's be honest - England senior caps simply weren't a realistic proposition for any of them.

[CraftyToePoke]

If nothing else, it illustrates the double standards of moderation on this board, whereby if I were to post something completely unfounded and offensive against one of your managers or players in the same way eg Bingham and McDonald received recently; or indeed slander the entire ROI population with stereotypical sh!te like 'Buckett' (above), then I'm pretty sure the post would be removed and I'd be suspended pronto.

And how would our presence be handled on the Our Wee Country forum ?
Are 'non loyal' types even allowed to register there ? Even if they are these days, they don't get to megaphone the place like you seem to feel entitled to on here.

You are given a lot more leeway here than is reciprocated and you routinely use it to drag threads into the off topic whataboutery cesspit we again find ourselves in. You are going to read things that you don't like or agree with here, maybe cry less.

Apologies mods, and to others.
Back on topic now.

[John83]

But be aware that if/when others of those from amongst the "Usual Suspects" seek to drag the debate in such a direction on these threads, seemingly without sanction, you can expect me to have my say in response.
(a) The post was no more aimed at you than anyone else.
(b) There have been no "sanctions".

****ing drama queens the lot of ye.

[~YTM~]

It's a pity Bradley ended up playing for the 6 counties. Could have sorted our RB issues for ten plus years at least.

[The Fly]

What you need to "get" is that for the present generation of youngsters, the likes of Sean Moore or Kone Doherty are the exception not the rule, the default position being that they play for NI.

The default for the present generation of talented youngsters from a CNR background certainly isn’t a desire to play for NI. One swallow doesn’t make a summer EG.

[Eirambler]

No, but once they go into that system it's hard to get them out again. We should be much more proactive in terms of identifying and targeting players from the north at a younger age. It would ruffle a few feathers but so be it.

The best age to bring lads from the north into our setup is before Under 17s, because then it's a free hit for the player, they can always switch to the north down the line if they end up not being good enough for us. Whereas once they've played competitive Under 17 international football it's harder to convince players to switch because that is then tying them to Ireland, and the reality is that most won't be good enough.

[seanfhear]

No, but once they go into that system it's hard to get them out again. We should be much more proactive in terms of identifying and targeting players from the north at a younger age. It would ruffle a few feathers but so be it.

The best age to bring lads from the north into our setup is before Under 17s, because then it's a free hit for the player, they can always switch to the north down the line if they end up not being good enough for us. Whereas once they've played competitive Under 17 international football it's harder to convince players to switch because that is then tying them to Ireland, and the reality is that most won't be good enough.Well thought out ~ The way to go alright.

[Predator]

Jim Crawford said that the FAI was talking to "third parties" about Conor Bradley and then he was called up to the Norn senior team. If anything, it illustrates the need for more urgency on the part of the FAI and Ireland coaches. When you consider the IFA's 'Club NI' programme, which brings kids into their orbit at 11/12 and how hard the English FA has been working to keep multi-eligible players (and entice them - Grealish/Rice), how can we afford to be blasé about potentially eligible players?

[EalingGreen]

The default for the present generation of talented youngsters from a CNR background certainly isn’t a desire to play for NI. One swallow doesn’t make a summer EG.Really?

I know you can't always go by names to discern backgrounds etc, but take a look at these most recent NI match squads:

Under 15's:
Northern Ireland starting line-up: Phoenix Blayney, Jude Crawford, Alfie Mulvenna (captain), Alfie Pollock, Bailey Magee, Jay McCafferty, Lukas Doherty, Daniel Hashim, Jay Forsythe, Logan McKnight, Odhran McHugh.
Substitutes: Jacob Sawyer (GK), Preston McKeown, Daniel McCarron, Daniel Patterson, Liam Kelly, Adam Nelson, Michael Mulholland, Mason Ayre, Padai O’Kane.

Under 17's:
Northern Ireland U17s: Finn McDonnell, Darragh McCann, Oisin Gamble, Cead McGrath, Callum Leacock, Alex Watson, Chris Atherton, Troy Savage (captain), George Feeney, Matthew Burns, Ceadach O’Neill.
Substitutes: (used) Alexander Eakin, Joel Kerr, Jack Faloona, Paul McGovern, Josef Orpwood; (unused) Zak Robinson (GK), Scott Hamilton, Luke Hawe.

Under 19's:
Northern Ireland: Mason Munn, Senan Devine, Matthew Orr, Conor Haughey, Tom Atcheson, Jack Doherty (captain), Callum Burnside, Ryan Corrigan, Ceadach O’Neill, Francis Turley, Paul McGovern.
Substitutes: (used) Braiden Graham, Cole Brannigan, Blaine McClure; (unused) Ben Metcalf (GK), Keevan Hawthorne, Dylan Stitt, Aodhan Doherty.

Under 21's:
Northern Ireland: Stephen McMullan, Aaron Donnelly, Ruairi McConville, Michael Forbes, Tommy Fogarty, Justin Devenny, Carl Johnston (captain), Patrick Kelly, Dale Taylor, Charlie Allen, JJ McKiernan.
Substitutes: (used) Terry Devlin, Makenzie Kirk, Darren Robinson, Dylan Sloan; (unused) Josh Clarke (GK), Sean Stewart, Jamie McDonnell, Matty Lusty, Shea Kearney.

Not so much "one swallow" as a whole colony...

[Diggs246]

Just get rid of GSTQ/K and show equal respect to all communities.
Than when those kids become adults you might actually keep them when it comes to senior international football.

There is precedent here, in rugby we have had some amazing players/ people for the Unionists community.
Rory best was one of the finest captains we ever had.

To respect your community we introduced Ireland's call. That wasn't done for a laugh.

Tbf to Ealing green I guess he wouldn't object to a change of anthem.

But it's time to get it done

[Eirambler]

I think EG might have missed the point that was being made there...

However we should absolutely be doing more on our side to be giving the higher potential players in these groups from the nationalist community a preferable option from a younger age. That's on our association that we're clearly not doing that.

[seanfhear]

I think EG might have missed the point that was being made there...

However we should absolutely be doing more on our side to be giving the higher potential players in these groups from the nationalist community a preferable option from a younger age. That's on our association that we're clearly not doing that.
All's fair, in love and soccer.

[EalingGreen]

Just get rid of GSTQ/K and show equal respect to all communities.
Than when those kids become adults you might actually keep them when it comes to senior international football.
Many NI fans incl myself actively want a new anthem, while many more wouldn't object to one. Can't tell whether between us we constitute a majority or not, but even if we should, the IFA isn't likely to opt for change any time soon, at least while the England team retains it. This is because they know just what a sh1tshow people outside the football community would kick up, flag/bonfire style.



Than when those kids become adults you might actually keep them when it comes to senior international football.
Er, how many do we actually lose when they reach adulthood these days? McClean and Duffy were well over a decade ago, while Gibson was as much a case of falling out with an individual(s) at the IFA as anything else. Meanwhile contemporaries of theirs such as Baird and Ferguson were actively approached by the FAI but declined. (Paddy McNair was another on your radar, much to the amusement of all who know him!)

And since then, the likes of Sykes is very much the exception for an adult deciding to switch these days.


There is precedent here, in rugby we have had some amazing players/ people for the Unionists community.
Rory best was one of the finest captains we ever had.

To respect your community we introduced Ireland's call. That wasn't done for a laugh.
Sorry, but I can only assume you know very little about rugby and the circumstances behind all that.

However I shall refrain from elaborating further, for fear of being accused of being the one who is dragging this thread away from ROI-eligible players and onto Rugby, Anthems, politics and the like.

[EalingGreen]

I think EG might have missed the point that was being made there...

However we should absolutely be doing more on our side to be giving the higher potential players in these groups from the nationalist community a preferable option from a younger age. That's on our association that we're clearly not doing that.You're missing the point if you imagine that the FAI doesn't regularly, even systematically, approach youngsters in NI. Indeed I could give you examples from years back, and it still goes on.

[elatedscum]

You're missing the point if you imagine that the FAI doesn't regularly, even systematically, approach youngsters in NI. Indeed I could give you examples from years back, and it still goes on.

You'd imagine if they were systematically approaching youngsters, then the likes of McClean and Sykes wouldn't have gotten as close to a senior call-up as they did.

[tetsujin1979]

Off topic posts moved from the "Potentially eligible players" thread

[EalingGreen]

You'd imagine if they were systematically approaching youngsters, then the likes of McClean and Sykes wouldn't have gotten as close to a senior call-up as they did.
Two examples, one from Feb 2012, the other from Aug 2022. And even if there are a couple others, that proves my point about how few players from a CNR background actually take up their option to represent ROI, when compared with those who remain with NI.

As for approaches, I can give you two examples from my own direct experience. About 15 years ago, the Australia U-16's NT was touring the UK during their (Australia's) off-season. This included a game v NI U-16's scheduled for Belfast. However, on the morning of the game, bad weather caused it to have to be switched last-minute to Fermanagh. Yet despite this, two guys in FAI jackets, driving an ROI car, were seen taking notes on the sideline.

Or five years ago, I was talking to a former NI international (incidentally from the CNR community) who was working for a leading English club, who have always had a tradition of ROI players. He was saying how it was common knowledge that the FAI were taking the parents of v.young NI players out to dinner etc and making all sorts of promises and inducements to get them to switch. (One bizarre example was a new washing machine! ;)) My contact was not at all happy with this kind of "carry on" [sic].

And I know people within the IFA set-up who are far closer to this than me, who corroborate these stories and more.

[third policeman]

A washing machine? If they'd thrown in a fridge freezer as well they may have stood a chance. This sounds a wee bit far fetched to be honest. Even by FAI standards this is crass and inept.

[seanfhear]

A washing machine? If they'd thrown in a fridge freezer as well they may have stood a chance. This sounds a wee bit far fetched to be honest. Even by FAI standards this is crass and inept.At least fill the washing machine with cash ! Money launder !

[EalingGreen]

A washing machine? If they'd thrown in a fridge freezer as well they may have stood a chance. This sounds a wee bit far fetched to be honest. Even by FAI standards this is crass and inept.I'd say providing cash could prove difficult (tax, accounting etc). While the washing machine was just something he mentioned in passing (being supplied free by an FAI sponsor?). Anyhow, my source knew his stuff and had no reason to lie to me, bizarre though it sounds.

Anyhow, wasn't it the case during the time of your Dear Leader, Kim-Il-John (Delaney), that Noel King had a financial incentive for persuading dual-Nationals from GB to switch to ROI? And if so, why should switches from NI be any less sought after? (I think it was King, though am open to correction on that).

But hey, with so few youngsters from a CNR background in NI opting to switch, if you want to console yourself that it's only because the FAI never gets round to asking, then knock yourselves out.

[Eirambler]

You're missing the point if you imagine that the FAI doesn't regularly, even systematically, approach youngsters in NI. Indeed I could give you examples from years back, and it still goes on.

My point is that they're not doing it near as much as they should be. And it needs to be being done before players play at any competitive age groups, because after that it's always going to be difficult given the FIFA rules restricting players who switch from any further changes down the line.


Yet despite this, two guys in FAI jackets, driving an ROI car, were seen taking notes on the sideline.



Fair play to them, but the fact that this was 15 years ago tells it's own story. They should be tracking the Under 15 and under 16 teams of the north constantly, to make sure any players of interest are fully aware of the FAI interest before they make any commitments to either association at Under 17 level. Because at the moment, the chase for young players from the northern nationalist community simply isn't a level playing field, other than possibly in Derry.

[EalingGreen]

My point is that they're not doing it near as much as they should be.And you know that?

Experience on the ground suggests that they're trying as hard as ever, just not getting much of a result.


And it needs to be being done before players play at any competitive age groups, because after that it's always going to be difficult given the FIFA rules restricting players who switch from any further changes down the line.
In recent years the whole direction of travel at FIFA has been towards loosening the restrictions which prevent players from switching, not tightening them.

In which case, it doesn't make any difference whether a youngster opts first for ROI, knowing that he can still switch to NI at a later date, or vice versa. In fact if anything, becoming ingrained in the FAI set-up, gaining a profile, establishing contacts and friends etc at the earliest possible age, as opposed to the IFA set-up first, should benefit a youngster's aspiration towards representing ROI at Senior level, rather than harming it.

While increasingly these days, even teenagers now have Agents, who will know the ins-and-outs of the process, even if the youngster himself, or his parents, don't.


My point is that they're not doing it near as much as they should be.And you know that?

Experience on the ground suggests that they're trying as hard as ever, just not getting much of a result.



Fair play to them, but the fact that this was 15 years ago tells it's own story. They should be tracking the Under 15 and under 16 teams of the north constantly, to make sure any players of interest are fully aware of the FAI interest before they make any commitments to either association at Under 17 level. Because at the moment, the chase for young players from the northern nationalist community simply isn't a level playing field, other than possibly in Derry.No, my point is that it was going on even back then. Or do you imagine that the FAI have given up on this sort of activity since? (Clue: They haven't)


Because at the moment, the chase for young players from the northern nationalist community simply isn't a level playing field, other than possibly in Derry."Level playing field" implies some sort of disadvantage.

Fact is, there is no barrier to the FAI contacting whoever the hell they like. While the growth of media, both social and mainstream, means that even 12 or 14 year olds can get wide exposure and access beyond their immediate club or community.

EDIT: From today's edition of the Derry News:
https://www.derrynow.com/news/derry-sport/1672558/pair-of-derry-men-key-to-northern-ireland-s-success-in-cyprus.html