Eligibility Rules, Okay

[backstothewall]

I do think that the experience of the big time might change that. You can't miss what you've never had and frankly the world has changed since the last time NI qualified in 1986.

Big tournament football is where it's at these days. The difference in the experience between 1994 & 2002 was marked. The difference in the experience between 2002 & 2012 was marked. Imagine how the 1986 to 2016 difference is. This will be a rude awakening for them.

That will be great for a while but if they go for 8 or 10 years without it happening again (which, let's face it, is likely) that might change. The average guy in the street who supports the Ireland rugby team could come to miss the glamour of the whole thing.

[Gather round]

So we choose to dismiss the only credible piece of quantitative evidence in favour of random anecdotal conversations between you and your mates. Actually it's not just politically motivated Nationalists who have advocated a single team, it's a succession of NI footballing icons from both traditions and presumably different, if any, political viewpoints

I see. Only that evidence which agrees with your inbuilt bias is credible? You'll need to improve on that to pass the Sergeant's exam.

My evidence, apart from being built up from thousands of fans and hundreds of matches over decades, is hardly random, Mr Professor of Logic. A huge number of self-selecting fans outweigh a few handfuls of ex-players and your elusive mass of garden centre Unionists hinted at in one question in one sociological survey (which was generally about community access to recreational facilities). Unless you think George Best or Derek Dougan's ability as players makes their opinion worth vastly more than any individual fan's, they're about as numerically significant as the TUV voters transferring to SF that I mentioned.


Let's not get too lost in complex syllogisms here. Let's just remind ourselves of the evidence. Most people in NI would like to see a single football team. It works for Rugby, boxing, cricket, golf etc and no one feels politically compromised

Yes, let's not lapse into cod-academic waffle. One survey response and a few ex-players aren't evidence of most people in NI. As SvD suggests above, most people there (like almost anywhere) aren't that interested in football. A survey question asked slightly differently- 'Do you think the NI football team should be abolished' would likely have got a rather different response. And given the context (ie, that there's already an alternative all-Ireland team for people to support) would have given a more realistic picture.

As you may know, NI's leading performers in many sports including most that you mentioned already take part other than in all-Ireland teams. Whether that be in a NI team (eg at the Commonwealth Games), for Britain or occasionally England, or in individual sports under the NI flag. Actually rugby union is as much of an anomaly as football. Which brings us full circle: there might still be a single Irish team if the FAI hadn't split in protest at perceived local bias. There's no chance in the foreseeable future of returning to one.


The reasons have been consistently backed-up. They have been articulated very eloquently by a large number of people including, I repeat, ex NI international players, and are primarily about having a better team. You might hold a different view, but you and your circle if true fans appear to be in a minority

Only in your imagination.


Big tournament football is where it's at these days

Really? You've made three tournaments out of the last 11. Wales, NI and Scotland went/ have gone 40, 30 and 18 years respectively since any success. All four kept a hardcore of support throughout. If any of us wanted to lose our identity for a better chance of qualifying, there are better alternatives available.

Not sure I get your RU parallel. Effectively, the Six Nations play the same qualifying tournament over and again, before getting walloped when they meet the Southern Hemisphere teams in the World Cup. If their fans prefer repeated trips to Edinburgh or Cardiff than a choice of 50 different countries, fine. Each to their own.

[Wolfman]

More pointless waffle.

Also Scotland and Wales have their own unique flags, languages and anthems to help keep their identity. What does the North have?

[third policeman]

More pointless waffle.

Also Scotland and Wales have their own unique flags, languages and anthems to help keep their identity. What does the North have?


They have GR who is fairly handy PR asset though overly reliant on rhetorical flourishes (I love "garden centre Unionist" description), but a bit weak on logic and empirical evidence.

If he's still listening, can I extend sincere best wishes for the Euros. They were "my team" back in the day as he knows. There was a time when the NI team was one of the few unifying emblems that transcended sectarian and political affiliations in the North, and therein lies the tragedy. They are now a fetish for Unionist identity and GR's particularly vivid brand of "No Surrender" rhetoric.

And why should people whose only crime is to have visited a garden be ignored and cast to the margins of Unionism? It must have been a Sunday.

[Stuttgart88]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/euro2016/euro2016-analysis/little-in-the-way-of-southern-comfort-beyond-euro-2016-402968.html

Get beyond the feelgood factor as Euro 2016 looms and there is real cause for concern for the Republic of Ireland when attention turns to a tough-looking World Cup qualifying campaign, writes Brendan O’Brien

Tuesday’s performance and result at Turner’s Cross aside, it has been a pleasant enough run-in to the European Championships, with the blue skies and sunshine that has framed training at the National Sports Campus in Dublin and Cork’s Fota Island doing its bit in keeping the mood upbeat and optimistic.

It isn’t just the Republic of Ireland who have benefited.

Northern Ireland’s visit to Carton House late last month coincided with the long stretch of hazy bliss, and it lent a peaceful and cheerful air to a relaxed media day when 21 of Michael O’Neill’s players wandered in and around the building and surrounding gardens, where they chatted away to their hearts’ content.

The entire affair lasted two hours and it was only halfway done when the thought struck that the overwhelming majority of those interviewed bore distinctly recognisable Northern accents. A pretty obvious assertion, you might think, but the contrast having spent so long covering their Republic of Ireland counterparts was marked in that regard.

Just to be clear: this is not to decry the presence of any player born in Derry, Glasgow, Manchester in Martin O’Neill’s squad, but the presence of so many with accents hewn from jurisdictions other than that of the 26 counties is still an issue which probably doesn’t get as much air time as it should merit.

Martin O’Neill’s 23-man squad for Euro 2016 includes nine players whose birth certs were processed outside of the Republic.
In fairness, the proportion of second and third generation Irish in previous squads used to be even greater. The number was 11 in 1988 and 2002 and 13 in the 1990 and 1994 World Cups. Or, 56% of both those squads, in other words.

It fell to just eight for Euro 2012 and, while the Republic will have a greater amount of players with domestic league experience in their latest squad, the North have chosen only five men who qualified through parentage or the granny rule. And this despite a population which is roughly one-third that of southern neighbours who haven’t always been, well, neighbourly.

The procurement of players born, bred and made in the North by the FAI has been stemmed since Michael O’Neill took charge in Belfast, but there will be those watching as the tournament unfolds in France for whom the sight of Shane Duffy and James McClean wearing a different shade of green will not sit well.

Among them will be Felix Healy. Born in Derry, Healy played and managed in the League of Ireland and the Irish League and he also lined out for Northern Ireland at the 1982 World Cup. The Troubles were embedded in the fabric of daily life in the North at the time. The Good Friday Agreement and the merest hint of someone representing the Republic was another generation down the road.

“When I was playing, you were Northern Ireland,” Healy explained, in a conversation with this column recently. “John O’Neill and I were from Derry and it was Northern Ireland. In Derry, now it is a different scenario. My eldest young fella is going to all the Republic of Ireland matches. He goes everywhere and he is going to France.

“The way Derry is (with players representing two different countries), it can be in many ways divisive. My thoughts are that you shouldn’t be allowed to play 15, 16, 17, and 18 and then just jump ship and play for somebody else, but that’s the nature of the beast. I hope both teams do well, but I think it will be incredibly difficult for both.”

Whether sourced in Northern Ireland or elsewhere, the sheer volume of players whose football education was gleaned from systems outside the Republic is alarming — their presence at this elevated level had little or nothing to do with the FAI, beyond some underage squads and in the case of those from the North, not even that.

The FAI and its high performance director Ruud Dokter will argue that they have put ever-improving systems, structures, and expertise in place at grassroots levels in recent years and yet the lack of talent progressing through those pathways to the senior international side has been all but non-existent under O’Neill’s watch.

It emerged on Wednesday that Ireland will have the oldest squad by average age at Euro 2016, as was the case in 2012. The average age will be just 68 days short of 30, which is an exceptionally high figure for any major field sport, and only nine debuts have been handed out by O’Neill since his first game in charge, against Latvia, in November of 2013. Just two of those were players who played their underage club football in the Republic before making it as professional footballers in the UK, and neither Jonny Hayes or Alan Judge are what we would call spring chickens. It’s a damning rap sheet and a real cause for concern once the Euros end and attention turns to a much stiffer World Cup qualifying campaign.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Don't mind GR, he's just trying to get the rise, for reasons best known to himself.
:eek:

[DannyInvincible]

Brendan O'Brien says in his piece quoted by Stutts above that the FAI "haven’t always been, well, neighbourly". "Procurement"? This is nonsense. There's nothing illegitimate going on. Some journalists - mainly southern ones? - need to get over their guilt complex. The FAI facilitate eligible players who are willing and good enough. These are players who've grown up supporting Ireland and who dream of playing for Ireland. It's the players' choice. If the FAI self-imposed a ban on selecting a particular set of eligible Irish nationals, or specifically Irish nationals from the north, there'd be a lot of unhappy people, north, south and beyond; myself included.

He claims the "merest hint of someone representing the Republic was another generation down the road" from Felix Healy's playing days in the '80s, but he's obviously unaware of the case of Jimmy McGeough Sr., who was denied the opportunity to play for the FAI in the late '60s despite being eligible in principle. Other players such as Danny Hale and Danny Trainor would also have been keen.

He makes a number of good points about FAI infrastructural and developmental problems otherwise.


It wouldn't actually. The two 'sides' you present are entirely at cross-purposes, there is no possibility whatever of compromise. We (NI fans) make clear time and again that we are not interested in joining, merging with or even taking over your football team. This isn't a process of give and take for you, it's just another element in your foundation myth. It's historically bunk, not conducive to neighborly good relations and quite likely unhealthy. You should give it up and focus on something actually achievable.

One could make the very same argument about partition - that it's divisive and not conducive to neighbourly good relations - surely? Why is the notion of unity "historically bunk" and "quite likely unhealthy"? Would you describe unionism or even the evidently historically-problematic, life-costing and economically-impoverishing concept of Northern Ireland in such terms? Ireland was one before NI ever came into existence, which wasn't even a century ago. That's not to deny the validity of your divergent aspirations; it's just to say that you're hardly in a position to be lecturing or pretending your aspirations have any more merit than mine, especially when those aspirations are creating greater hardship for people whilst the rest of Ireland prospers. Since when did we have to stifle or discard our ideals and aspirations based on what others might think is or isn't achievable, or even based on what others might prefer us to believe in?

It's borderline insulting to assert a sort of absolute superiority of ideas, but you'll no doubt accuse me of more "mopery". You can't always play that card when someone raises a grievance or takes issue with hypocrisy, disrespect or ignorance. It's like the old "it's political correctness gone mad" mantra of the Right when their insulting and inaccurate ideas are rightly criticised and challenged. ;)

Anyway, the point is that I'm not campaigning for or even advocating a forced abolition of the IFA, which is almost how you make it out. It's not correct to say "this isn't a process of give and take" for me. I fully respect the IFA's right to exist and I'm well aware of the desires of NI supporters. That's fine. Any change would be completely voluntary, mutually-agreed and would necessarily involve compromise on both sides. I'm only having a theoretical discussion about it and it's primarily directed at ourselves (or those of us who might be supportive of the idea of a united team) actually. It's self-reflection; not criticism of NI fans. In that sense, it always puzzles me as to why it seems to hit a nerve so much. It would be completely consensual, so there's no reason to feel threatened by it. If NI fans don't want it, fine; I won't hold it against them. It's up to those of us who might desire it to do the persuading and to present a compelling case. There's no moral expectation upon you whatsoever. You're entitled to your identity and your aspirations. Isn't that respectful and tolerant? I have no interest in forcing anything upon anyone and would strongly object to that notion.

A united team is, as SvD says, unlikely except in the event of a united Ireland - I'm fully aware - but I think these sorts of cultural-rooted conversations are ones that proponents of unity - of both team and country - must think about having as there's quite a bit of "ideological" and practical cross-over in terms of acknowledging that we'll necessarily have to compromise rather than just expect unionists to jump aboard the idea. Similar principles apply to the idea of uniting Ireland as apply to the discussion of uniting the football teams, or even to the discussion (http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/10/23/is-irish-rugby-truly-the-beacon-of-inclusiveness-it-is-purported-to-be/#comment-2325284298) on whether or not the Irish rugby team is as inclusive as it claims to be.


You want the end of the IFA as a first principle but aren't willing or confident enough to argue that in isolation. The equal end of the FAI is an inevitable consequence of any new entity replacing both.

I have acknowledged that that could be a consequence though, so why would I focus solely on the IFA. To do so would be hypocritical, which I always strive to avoid. The idea of applying the same principles that we apply to others to ourselves is very important. It's not out of cowardice that I talk of compromise. I know it's not even a prevalent idea amongst Ireland fans or even republicans, but I think it's important to self-reflect and to challenge conventional wisdom when it's proving counter-productive. It's hardly cowardice to do that. Many people on "this side" of the fence would offload scorn and loathing upon my ideas.


Which brings us full circle: there might still be a single Irish team if the FAI hadn't split in protest at perceived local bias. There's no chance in the foreseeable future of returning to one.

I think the local bias was evident. Anyway, it's not accurate to describe the FAI as having split as it would suggest a partitionist sentiment inspired the establishment of the association, which simply isn't true. I wrote this (https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com/2015/09/21/the-partition-of-irish-football-why-dont-we-have-a-single-all-ireland-team/) a while back on it on my blog:


To assume there was [a partitionist] spirit would be to misunderstand the events of the day.

The FAI was originally set up in 1921, not technically to split from the IFA, but to actually replace the IFA as the national all-island association. It was reported in August of that year that the organisation was the “Football Association of All-Ireland [and] as its name indicates, will have jurisdiction over all Ireland, and it is expected that clubs will affiliate from all provinces”. Indeed, the Falls District League of mainly-nationalist west Belfast (which included clubs like West Ham and Alton United, who won the 1923 FAI Cup) affiliated with the new Dublin-based association along with other northern clubs from the predominantly-nationalist settlements of Derry and Downpatrick.

It was only when the Dublin association came to seek admission to FIFA, the international governing body of football, in 1923 that the FAI’s jurisdiction was limited to the 26 counties of what was then the Irish Free State and it adopted the name ‘the Football Association of the Irish Free State’. In effect, formal and official recognition was dependent upon a compromising on ideals; the association would not have been admitted to FIFA had it insisted on maintaining a 32-county, all-island jurisdiction.

Numerous attempts and meetings to reconcile the two associations were attempted over the years but failed for whatever reason.

[Gather round]

They have GR who is fairly handy PR asset though overly reliant on rhetorical flourishes (I love "garden centre Unionist" description)

You flatter me- although I think 'complex syllogism' probably wins the prize for rhetorical flourish/ sh*tting a thesaurus. Garden Centre Unionist (ie, non-voting, often dismissive of the plebs who do) has been used in the local media for a long time.


but a bit weak on logic and empirical evidence

Poor comeback. The only evidence you've added to my original reference is that a few unnamed NI players would prefer there not to be a NI team. That handful are well known, although perhaps telling that you didn't name any. Forgotten who they are?

We've already established that you think 'most critics of the NI team are Nationalists' leads directly to 'Nationalists can't support NI'. You're aren't really in a position to criticise anyone else's logic, I'm afraid.


If he's still listening, can I extend sincere best wishes for the Euros. They were "my team" back in the day as he knows. There was a time when the NI team was one of the few unifying emblems that transcended sectarian and political affiliations in the North, and therein lies the tragedy

Good wishes returned with thanks. The main reason many from the broadly Nationalist community don't support NI is that they identify with the Republic's team. I have no problem with that, wish them well and don't agree that it's a tragedy.


They are now a fetish for Unionist identity and GR's particularly vivid brand of "No Surrender" rhetoric
They are much less fetishised as Unionist than during the Troubles. I haven't suggested anything that a reasonable reader could characterise as 'No Surrender'. That's just a not very complex silliness.

[Gather round]

One could make the very same argument about partition - that it's divisive and not conducive to neighbourly good relations - surely?

Whataboutery alert. Anyway, you and I and others on this thread have discussed various alternatives to the current partition (each of which would of course be repartition of a kind). Contrary to TP's claim above, I'm always up for a discussion towards compromise ;)


Why is the notion of unity "historically bunk" and "quite likely unhealthy"?

The foundation myth? There was never a united Ireland except under British rule. The football team(s)? You already have one that any Irish supporter or player can follow or aspire to play for. That should be enough for anyone reasonable, but instead you riff incessantly about the end of another team. It's obsessive, so potentially unhealthy.


Would you describe unionism or even the evidently historically-problematic, life-costing and economically-impoverishing concept of Northern Ireland in such terms?

A concept didn't intimidate my family out of the New Lodge. As you know, I regularly criticise Unionist and British Govt politics. I'm an equal opportunity critic.


you're hardly in a position to be lecturing or pretending your aspirations have any more merit than mine
I'm neither lecturing nor pretending anything, just answering your argument. Which is after all that my football team shouldn't exist, however much you dance around a pinhead suggesting summat else.


especially when those aspirations are creating greater hardship for people whilst the rest of Ireland prospers
Without wishing to be trite, Josh Magennis or Lee Hodson playing international football in a major tournament isn't harming anyone, although I imagine it upsets most Kilmarnock fans just a wee bit. On the wider issue, as discussed recently I'm not convinced by David McWilliams and others: the South still has structural economic problems and an extra 40% population is likely to worsen thosein any notional UI.


It's borderline insulting to assert a sort of absolute superiority of ideas
Maybe it is- but I haven't done that.


You can't always play that card when someone raises a grievance or takes issue with hypocrisy, disrespect or ignorance
Don't be silly. I only raise it when your supposed 'grievances' are trivial, as I said.


Anyway, it's not accurate to describe the FAI as having split as it would suggest a partitionist sentiment inspired the establishment of the association, which simply isn't

Er, no. It suggests what it says- that the FAI split. I acknowledge that they hoped/ assumed the IFA would simply allow them to take over. Until it didn't. In 1923 ;)

[Wolfman]

More circular waffle.

[Gather round]

http://ghk.h-cdn.co/assets/cm/15/11/54ff0276560c0-0112-cuisinart-round-classic-waffle-maker-xl.jpg

[Wolfman]

Exactly.

[DannyInvincible]

Which is after all that my football team shouldn't exist

It really isn't though. There's no need to put that emphasis on it as it implies I want to impose my will or that I'm trying to impose some moral expectation. I fully acknowledge the duty is on those who want it to persuade you and NI fans; the duty isn't on you to conform. It would be a proposal; not an obligation. There's a fundamental conceptual difference. It wouldn't be coercion; it'd be consensual.

[Charlie Darwin]

Jesus lads, the Euros start in three days. Try to enjoy it.

[osarusan]

It really isn't though. There's no need to put that emphasis on it as it implies I want to impose my will or that I'm trying to impose some moral expectation. I fully acknowledge the duty is on those who want it to persuade you and NI fans; the duty isn't on you to conform. It would be a proposal; not an obligation. There's a fundamental conceptual difference. It wouldn't be coercion; it'd be consensual.

There is no duty on you to try and persuade him and NI fans, other than the duty you've taken upon yourself.

[Gather round]

Jesus lads, the Euros start in three days. Try to enjoy it

D'accord mon ami. I wish everyone involved the best of luck and an enjoyable trip.

Alas, competing schedules in a big country with potentially chaotic transport means I will be unable to join you for petit dejeuner de gauffres.

Mon bel Ami M. Lupe d'Ardee has just alerted me to a must-see on BBC TV tonight. I checked in the paper and sure enough, they've given Thierry Henri his own show ;)

[DannyInvincible]

There is no duty on you to try and persuade him and NI fans, other than the duty you've taken upon yourself.

Heh, I thought what I'd written was straightforward, but if that wasn't clear, that's more or less what I meant. If there is a duty to act, it necessarily or logically rests with the side that wants to achieve it. Obviously, if you wish to achieve something or set a target, a necessary or self-evident element (duty) of reaching that is actually striving to achieve it. In this instance, that would be a process of persuasion. Understanding this doesn't have to be difficult.

[ArdeeBhoy]

D'accord mon ami. I wish everyone involved the best of luck and an enjoyable trip.

Alas, competing schedules in a big country with potentially chaotic transport means I will be unable to join you for petit dejeuner de gauffres.

Mon bel Ami M. Lupe d'Ardee has just alerted me to a must-see on BBC TV tonight. I checked in the paper and sure enough, they've given Thierry Henri his own show ;)

He's lying of course. Wants us to lose every game!
We may oblige?

As for La Cheat, nothing to do with him but Rather Rotund's impending obesity, 30+ years in the making...
:rolleyes:

[gastric]

Personally, I hope NI get hammered every game in the Euros which will make me happy. Maybe that will end the ongoing condescending and arrogant posts on here. Good on you Danny and your determination to get your message across.

[DannyInvincible]

Heh, cheers, gastric. We're only play-fighting really. (I think!)

I'd posted the following in the "potential eligible players" thread but it's relevant here too as it relates to the exemption mechanism and what finalises a switch of association:


Had sent Yann another email just to pose some further questions but he's re-stated that, based on available info, Kouogan's case "seems perfectly legit". There should be no issue, as far as FIFA are concerned, in granting an exemption, so long as procedural matters are satisfied. Interestingly, he did inform me that the exemption mechanism was introduced only about three or four years ago, around 2013. I hadn't been aware of this.

I also raised the matter again of what actually effects a switch and he seems to be of the thinking now that it is the granting of the switch request, which would mean Jack Grealish, just to use an example, is now irreversibly tied. Yann's thinking appears to have changed although he didn't speak to the head of the PSC about it unfortunately. This would seem to conform with statements from FAI sources (if I recall correctly) a few months ago stating that once Grealish's switch would be granted, there'd be no going back on it. Indeed, it would also conform with the literal wording of article 8.1 which states that a player "may, only once, request to change the association for which he is eligible to play international matches".

Grealish is now irreversibly tied to England, I should have said, of course.

[BonnieShels]

Heh, cheers, gastric. We're only play-fighting really. (I think!)

I'd posted the following in the "potential eligible players" thread but it's relevant here too as it relates to the exemption mechanism and what finalises a switch of association:



Grealish is now irreversibly tied to England, I should have said, of course.

Now that's something.

I was checking through Leicester's squad last night and I came across Gökhan Inler and I was trying to think where I had heard his name before (Napoli) andyway looking at his wiki it seems he played for Swiss U21 then Turkey U21 then Swiss senior:

2005 Switzerland U21 Appearances: 3
2006 Turkey U21 App: 1
2006– Switzerland App: 89

If the Turkey U21 game was a friendly would that have not tied him?

(that game was in 2006, I've found that much, I'm off to bed now.)

[gastric]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but this article is about Adrian Doherty, who I must confess I had never heard about before. A tragic story and while he represented NI at school boy level and U 17 level, by name, might have represented us at some stage. Reminds me a bit of Kevin Grogan's story, certainly another who was a loss to us. These stories fascinate me.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/manchester-united-jose-mourinho-can-learn-a-lesson-from-how-alex-ferguson-nurtured-a-tragic-young-a7067531.html

Edit: Was just reflecting on Grogan's career and found one of the most bizarre websites I have ever seen.

http://www.vipfaq.com/Kevin%20Grogan.html

[gastric]

D'accord mon ami. I wish everyone involved the best of luck and an enjoyable trip.

Alas, competing schedules in a big country with potentially chaotic transport means I will be unable to join you for petit dejeuner de gauffres.

Mon bel Ami M. Lupe d'Ardee has just alerted me to a must-see on BBC TV tonight. I checked in the paper and sure enough, they've given Thierry Henri his own show ;)

Talk about enjoyment, love this opinion piece by David McWilliams. I am sure GR, you will enjoy it too! :D

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/dup-brexit-push-may-weaken-uk-and-sign-partys-death-warrant-34781435.html

[DannyInvincible]

Now that's something.

I was checking through Leicester's squad last night and I came across Gökhan Inler and I was trying to think where I had heard his name before (Napoli) andyway looking at his wiki it seems he played for Swiss U21 then Turkey U21 then Swiss senior:

2005 Switzerland U21 Appearances: 3
2006 Turkey U21 App: 1
2006– Switzerland App: 89

If the Turkey U21 game was a friendly would that have not tied him?

(that game was in 2006, I've found that much, I'm off to bed now.)

Nah, he wouldn't have had to have requested a switch to play in a non-FIFA sanctioned friendly. Michael O'Connor and Tony Kane did similar between the IFA, FAI and IFA again, if you recall. O'Connor was in our squad for a tournament known as the Madeira Cup whilst Kane actually played for us in that tournament (as well as in some other under-age friendlies). The Madeira Cup wouldn't have counted as FIFA competition. And sure didn't the FAI select and play two English players from Everton with no Irish heritage whatsoever a few years ago in at least one friendly? Jay Wallace and Gerard Kinsella were their names. So it's apparent that you can select whoever you like for friendlies, or for non-FIFA sanctioned games at least.

I'm not sure whether that translates into senior friendlies, mind. You'd have to assume not, as they count towards FIFA rankings, but I'm wondering what the punishment (if any) would be if you fielded an ineligible player in a senior friendly... Is there one?

[DannyInvincible]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but this article is about Adrian Doherty, who I must confess I had never heard about before. A tragic story and while he represented NI at school boy level and U 17 level, by name, might have represented us at some stage. Reminds me a bit of Kevin Grogan's story, certainly another who was a loss to us. These stories fascinate me.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/manchester-united-jose-mourinho-can-learn-a-lesson-from-how-alex-ferguson-nurtured-a-tragic-young-a7067531.html

Eerie coincidence... If you'd been paying closer attention to EG's post/photo a few pages ago, you'd have spotted the young Doherty from Belldoo, Strabane in the NI schoolboys' starting line-up against Brazil at Windsor Park in 1988.


Edit: I see now that Brendan does appear to have represented ROI Schools, somehow also managing to represent NI Schools, including here against Brazil:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uPuyj8xo7y8/TePOJzyE5zI/AAAAAAAABFg/zftlQ8X32F0/s640/036.jpg

He's there on the far bottom-left to the immediate right of Brendan Rodgers (who is in full/dark tracksuit on his hunkers).

Good piece that in the Independent though. A tragic story and end, indeed.

[BonnieShels]

Nah, he wouldn't have had to have requested a switch to play in a non-FIFA sanctioned friendly. Michael O'Connor and Tony Kane did similar between the IFA, FAI and IFA again, if you recall. O'Connor was in our squad for a tournament known as the Madeira Cup whilst Kane actually played for us in that tournament (as well as in some other under-age friendlies). The Madeira Cup wouldn't have counted as FIFA competition. And sure didn't the FAI select and play two English players from Everton with no Irish heritage whatsoever a few years ago in at least one friendly? Jay Wallace and Gerard Kinsella were their names. So it's apparent that you can select whoever you like for friendlies, or for non-FIFA sanctioned games at least.

I'm not sure whether that translates into senior friendlies, mind. You'd have to assume not, as they count towards FIFA rankings, but I'm wondering what the punishment (if any) would be if you fielded an ineligible player in a senior friendly... Is there one?

As I said, I feel that that Turkey U21 game was a friendly. But I stated that I didn't know for sure.
In all probability it is. But until then...

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2016/president-higgins-will-be-supporting-both-the-republic-and-northern-ireland-at-euro-2016-34791994.html


"Sport is so much more than entertainment. Sport brings us together and helps bridge cultural, linguistic or ethnic divides.

"This year, of course, we have two Irish teams participating, and we have the additional joy of supporting each other.

"It is my sincere hope that our teams' participation in Euro 2016 will be an occasion to strengthen the common bonds among all of us living on this island, and within the community of peoples we call Europe."



Yes. I hope to learn more about Northern Irish culture and the way their citizens live. The food they eat, the clothes they wear, the language they speak. I want to learn more about July 12th when scores of Northern Irish children of every creed join hands, sing merry songs and concoct giant bonfires made of smiles and wonderment.

http://www.the42.ie/northern-ireland-euro-2016-republic-of-ireland-support-2787887-Jun2016/

Relevant article in light of what's been discussed here lately.

[DannyInvincible]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fzaD7YFdq4

Why do the BBC still think that birth south of the border qualifies a player to play for NI?

[osarusan]

Can't spell Republic either.

[Lionel Ritchie]

]

Why do the BBC still think that birth south of the border qualifies a player to play for NI?

I noticed that too when it appeared in my FB stream and thought I'll be barracked as a killjoy if I point it out. Technially they use an over arching term "can pick players from the south" which while being economical with fact would be correct in the event the 'southern' player had an ancestral connection that satisfied the relevant article (I'm sure you've forgotten more on this subject than I'll ever know). So they can't pick any old player they like from the south and their ability to pick any qualifying player from the south is no different from their ability to pick a qualifying player from any other part of the planet.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I imagine they thought a more exact outline of the facts would take away from the attempted hilarity of pointing out how similar the two countries are.

[BonnieShels]

It was kinda funny. And a nice attempt.

[DannyInvincible]

I note Brazil-born Éder qualifies to play for Italy on account of an Italian great-grandfather: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89der_(Italian_footballer)


Éder, as a dual citizen of Italy and Brazil, was eligible to play for both nations. He qualified for the Italian national team through his Italian citizenship and through his Italian great-grandfather Battista Righetto, who came from Nove in Veneto.

[osarusan]

I note Brazil-born Éder qualifies to play for Italy on account of an Italian great-grandfather: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89der_(Italian_footballer)

Is it not the 11 consecutive years he's played in Italy that qualifies him for the Italian national team?

[DannyInvincible]

Is it not the 11 consecutive years he's played in Italy that qualifies him for the Italian national team?

Ah, that is a possibility, yes.

[Olé Olé]

Like after all big Ireland results, there are a few happy boys on twitter tonight.
Michael Duffy https://twitter.com/michaelduffy_/status/745723617405730816
Dale Gorman https://twitter.com/DaleGorman7/status/745722235571281920
Jay Donnelly (Rory's brother) https://twitter.com/JaayD99/status/745719298715492353
And some boys happy after tonight and last night.
Robbie McDaid https://twitter.com/RobbieMcDaid/status/745722889454882816
Mikhail Kennedy https://twitter.com/MikhailKennedy/status/745722140402515968
Luke Conlan https://twitter.com/LukeConlan1/status/745720945801838592
Ryan McLaughlin https://twitter.com/RyanMcL2/status/745719631793496064

Such an interesting position to be supporting of two sides. Fair play. I don't really have any motivation to support Northern Ireland but fair play, it's a nice story. Same way I'd see Wales as a nice story.

[BonnieShels]

It's clearly an age and generational thing.

Never until possibly hell freezing over would I wish the IFA team well. Ever.

[Gather round]

Well done all, you bossed that from start to end.


It's clearly an age and generational thing.

Never until possibly hell freezing over would I wish the IFA team well. Ever.

I think it's more random and unpredictable than that. Not least as most fans aren't as hardcore as those of us on message boards- they just get involved for a big match or tournament.

I imagine you'd want NI to win or draw if it helped you to progress in a tournament.

[BonnieShels]

Well done all, you bossed that from start to end.



I think it's more random and unpredictable than that. Not least as most fans aren't as hardcore as those of us on message boards- they just get involved for a big match or tournament.

I imagine you'd want NI to win or draw if it helped you to progress in a tournament.

Naturally. But until that day comes... It'll still be a begrudging misery of a thing to want.

[Olé Olé]

Little snippet beside Brian Kerr's article in the Indo today. He stated that Michael McGovern, the NI goalkeeping hero from Enniskillen, was called up to one of his underage squads and that he "seemed interested in declaring for us" but Kerr had a think about it and realised that there were too many goalkeepers ahead of McGovern in the queue for the senior side (he names Kiely, Given, Wayne Henderson and Brian and Joe Murphy). So, Kerr told him plump for the NI team to have a better chance at international football.

As an aside, I met a couple of lads from Tyrone on my travels in France last week. One was Niall McGinn's best mate. Needless to mention they weren't there supporting NI.

[BonnieShels]

Neither was McGinn.

[BonnieShels]

I miss this thread and that article in the Derry Sentinel about McEneff has ruffled my feathers.

[geysir]

It's going to the wire with Kosovo before their first game on monday.
Kosovo still awaiting Fifa clearance for six players (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37270096)


There was snotty condescending response from the Swiss federation

"The SFV regrets the priority of the Kosovar directors has been in trying to recruit players for the next World Cup qualifiers instead of consolidating the foundations of their federation,"

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

The passive-aggressiveness from the Swiss reminds me of someone.

[BonnieShels]

They're talking about All Ireland XIs on Off The Ball. And some of the silliness is brain frying. They were talking about how we "took players" from the IFA.

I tweeted them and obviously mentioned Danny's blog.

Apparently there's chat this week about a reunified team. I missed that? Anyone?

[Charlie Darwin]

Sinn Fein were on about it again. Citing how much better we are in rugby what with that being so internationally competitive and all.

[The Fly]

They're talking about All Ireland XIs. And some of the silliness is brain frying. They were talking about how we "took players" from the IFA.


Who are?

[liamoo11]

Who are?

the voices !!

Think he means the football show on newstalk tonight. It was an awful segment in fairness so bad I switched over to five live for the Utd commentary to keep me going on my run(?jog) it's cold out there tonight kids.

[BonnieShels]

Cheer Liam.

[geysir]

Sinn Fein were on about it again. Citing how much better we are in rugby what with that being so internationally competitive and all.
We can beat New Zealand on our own, with our eyes closed.

I listened in to the that newstalk segment and it was a bit off the wall There was some journalist (Dunne ? or was he in the program after?) picking his AI team along with Killer who doesn't know much about anything before 1990.
I'll give the Nordies George Best but he'd have had to sober up to play with us in a best ever 11, we had enough drunks already.