Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

[bohsmug]

That's....something else. Suppose it will still be fine for their European friendlies.

Jokes aside, I totally get the attraction of safe standing and wish we had it in Tallaght, but to sacrifice playing big European ties at home for it seems a bit ridiculous. Surprised the council agreed to let them make any decisions on those lines tbh.

I don't think there was an option of 8k+ seating vs 8K+ seating and standing. It was more or less 6k seating between the 2 pitchside stands plus whatever you can squeeze in behind the goals. Terracing makes more sense in that case because you can squeeze more in. The areas behind the goal look odd as they are in the plan anyway, they'd look even odder trying to get seats in I think. I do wonder if they had put raised stands in the design could they have fit more in and still kept the pathway, with the pathway being more underneath the stand as opposed to behind it. Also feels like a fair bit of the design of the pitchside stands is done a certain way to avoid objections (stand height, gradient and light). I wouldn't know enough about costs but comparing cost to greenfield site is inaccurate/irrelevant unless suggesting scraping Dalymount altogether and developing on a greenfield site - which is a fair enough opinion but not the side I'd generally fall on.

My understanding is that Cat4 was ruled out long, long ago due to the additional facilities required, not seating capacity alone. That twitter post looks more like it relates to a misunderstanding/misuse of the term "Cat4" vs "all seater", perhaps accurately reporting what was said at the meeting. I didn't watch the meeting personally.

[ontheotherhand]

I don't think there was an option of 8k+ seating vs 8K+ seating and standing. It was more or less 6k seating between the 2 pitchside stands plus whatever you can squeeze in behind the goals. Terracing makes more sense in that case because you can squeeze more in. The areas behind the goal look odd as they are in the plan anyway, they'd look even odder trying to get seats in I think. I do wonder if they had put raised stands in the design could they have fit more in and still kept the pathway, with the pathway being more underneath the stand as opposed to behind it. Also feels like a fair bit of the design of the pitchside stands is done a certain way to avoid objections (stand height, gradient and light). I wouldn't know enough about costs but comparing cost to greenfield site is inaccurate/irrelevant unless suggesting scraping Dalymount altogether and developing on a greenfield site - which is a fair enough opinion but not the side I'd generally fall on.

My understanding is that Cat4 was ruled out long, long ago due to the additional facilities required, not seating capacity alone. That twitter post looks more like it relates to a misunderstanding/misuse of the term "Cat4" vs "all seater", perhaps accurately reporting what was said at the meeting. I didn't watch the meeting personally.

That's fair enough. I've read a lot of stuff about this plan that I would be taking with a large pinch of salt. That the pitch was rotated because UEFA prefer north/south aspects for pitches being one. Saw that on Twitter. Could be true, seems insane.

I just hope it actually gets done at this point. I'd have no problem enjoying bohs being homeless for a while but we need you in a proper ground. There can be no light without the dark after all, and it's a bonus that you can't say much about our council owned stadium anymore.

[brendy_éire]

Smaller associations really should be at UEFA looking for dispensation for Cat 3 stadia for the majority of games.

According to Derry club officials, there seems to be a realisation about this. Heard it was expected to be brought in for this season, but no word.
The changes would also allow safe standing to all clubs.

With smaller clubs more regularly qualifying for league competition, it just makes sense.

[ontheotherhand]

There’s talk of introducing safe standing in the South Stand. No idea of timelines though.

Heard the council are adding the corners in too. Will be nice and cozy.

[total hoofball]

Shels' Tolka 250 year lease with DCC has been completed today

https://shelbournefc.ie/shelbourne-football-club-is-delighted-to-announce-that-the-formal-agreements-with-dublin-city-council-for-a-250-year-lease-of-tolka-park-have-been-completed/

[Nesta99]

That's fair enough. I've read a lot of stuff about this plan that I would be taking with a large pinch of salt. That the pitch was rotated because UEFA prefer north/south aspects for pitches being one. Saw that on Twitter. Could be true, seems insane.

I just hope it actually gets done at this point. I'd have no problem enjoying bohs being homeless for a while but we need you in a proper ground. There can be no light without the dark after all, and it's a bonus that you can't say much about our council owned stadium anymore.

Yeah and before games everyone must bow in the direction of Geneva! Eh no pitch orientation is not an issue. What is is the ability to grow grass if that is the surface and that has to do with light artificial or natural so height of stands, roofing material etc are relevant. Some light reading for those that could be bothered. https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/027b-168e898b309b-c76f49dada9e-1000/the_uefa_sustainable_infrastructure_guidelines.pdf P125 for pitch stuff. Its would be genuinely be of interest to clubs who are serious about any sustainable development. No brainers - waste/rainwater capture for watering pitches, flushing bogs etc etc. Doesnt specify needing to have bees...

[Nesta99]

Shels' Tolka 250 year lease with DCC has been completed today

https://shelbournefc.ie/shelbourne-football-club-is-delighted-to-announce-that-the-formal-agreements-with-dublin-city-council-for-a-250-year-lease-of-tolka-park-have-been-completed/

Any major capital investment requirements or has a lot of the required work been done that were written in to the original lease proposal?

Really minor observation recently, when watching Drogs v Bohs, whenever they cut to the really high level drone shots the ground roofs looked like there would collapse at any moment with the rust. Eve just to make the last a bit longer some auld metal paint is needed to stop eroding through, Shels also, the barrel roof could be spruced up. Throw the state of Oriel up but roofs are fie whetever abou the rest.

[nr637]

Looking at the new Dalymount Park upgrade, what is the capacity for the proposed terracing behind both goals, the Des Kelly & Tramway ends?

[bohsmug]

Looking at the new Dalymount Park upgrade, what is the capacity for the proposed terracing behind both goals, the Des Kelly & Tramway ends?

Roughly 700 standing where Jodi is now.
Roughly 1,300 standing on Connaught Street side (mono stand side).
Roughly 3,000 seats in each pitch side stand.

[nr637]

What is the the main reason in the design for turning the pitch 180', could they have created a 10,000 seated capacity stadium from its current pitch surrounding position!

[EalingGreen]

Am open to correction, but aiui, UEFA's North/South pitch alignment policy is a preference, not a mandate. And it's to avoid the sun being in the eyes of spectators in the early-mid afternoon. But I'm pretty sure no stadium has ever been refused its due validation solely because the pitch is facing the "wrong" way.

[Elfman]

I'm surprised this question is still being asked as I thought I'd seen the answer on these forums before. Possibly it was somewhere else, so I'm open to correction on this;

I understood the reason for the pitch rotation was because modern Health & Safety rules determined that the existing pathways to the Jodi and Connaught St stands were too small to accommodate 3k+ fans. That was also the reason why they can't just upgrade the Jodi and put a new similar sized stand in Connaught Street.

Any Bohs fans in the know able to confirm this? Or Nesta, our resident expert on stadium standards! :)

[Elfman]

That's crazy. The northside of Dublin should have at least one Cat 4 stadium. Especially as it's publicly-owned. Would then work in Europe for not just Bohs, but also Shels, Drogheda, Dundalk.

It does!! It's called Croke Park! ;)

[Elfman]

Do ye still own part of the Tramway end?
This is a great question and might offer another explanation for the rotation.

I looked into this myself and the old owner of the Phibs Shopping Centre won a court case on the ownership, then had it repossessed by NAMA. Last I heard NAMA sold the Shopping centre to Twinlite, a property company. i couldn't determine if that included the Tramway End though (another slap in the face to the tax payer if it did but this would be consistent with past behaviour!).

[EatYerGreens]

Do German sides not have safe standing that converts into seating for Euro games?

And Celtic too I think?

Yes. And UEFA sanctioned them for a 'test' a few years ago, and all seemed to go well from their POV.

[Nesta99]

I'm surprised this question is still being asked as I thought I'd seen the answer on these forums before. Possibly it was somewhere else, so I'm open to correction on this;

I understood the reason for the pitch rotation was because modern Health & Safety rules determined that the existing pathways to the Jodi and Connaught St stands were too small to accommodate 3k+ fans. That was also the reason why they can't just upgrade the Jodi and put a new similar sized stand in Connaught Street.

Any Bohs fans in the know able to confirm this? Or Nesta, our resident expert on stadium standards! :)

Why stuff cant or isnt done was my forté, pishing on gah club plans was a personal hobby. Ive not actually seen the Dalymount plans bar visual renditions. Just from knowing the area i dont see unworkable contingencies keeping Dalymount footprint as it is with modifications that could keep DFB et al happy. Turning the pitch only makes sense in trying to minimise the footprint. Lookig at who Bohs have sold tracts of land to might be interesting. The shopping centre end has a lot of space, sold 10 times to 5 differnt people complicates thiings a bit...

[nr637]

I hope the Bohs aren't pricing themselves out of a stadium!

Look at what Shels are doing at Tolka, there are adding improvements upgrading where necessary for regulation. I thin k Bohs has cleaned up well and any future upgrades will be done as needed.

Why Bohs can't just upgrade the Jodi, add a new similar stand opposite, new covered terracing on the Des Kelly end and something similar on the tramway end. Keep Dalymount looking like a smaller football ground.

[ontheotherhand]

Why stuff cant or isnt done was my forté, pishing on gah club plans was a personal hobby. Ive not actually seen the Dalymount plans bar visual renditions. Just from knowing the area i dont see unworkable contingencies keeping Dalymount footprint as it is with modifications that could keep DFB et al happy. Turning the pitch only makes sense in trying to minimise the footprint. Lookig at who Bohs have sold tracts of land to might be interesting. The shopping centre end has a lot of space, sold 10 times to 5 differnt people complicates thiings a bit...

With all the public funding bohs are getting here, it's a real surprise the GAA haven't waded in to stake a claim on Dalymount. Still time for it hopefully.

[Shinkicker]

I hope the Bohs aren't pricing themselves out of a stadium!

Look at what Shels are doing at Tolka, there are adding improvements upgrading where necessary for regulation. I thin k Bohs has cleaned up well and any future upgrades will be done as needed.

Why Bohs can't just upgrade the Jodi, add a new similar stand opposite, new covered terracing on the Des Kelly end and something similar on the tramway end. Keep Dalymount looking like a smaller football ground.
I totally agree with you on this. It could be completed in stages, without the need for Bohs to vacate the ground, for far less than 64 million euros and would provide a circa 10,000 capacity stadium. It may not be CAT 4, but so what the

[Shinkicker]

I totally agree with you on this. It could be completed in stages, without the need for Bohs to vacate the ground, for far less than 64 million euros and would provide a circa 10,000 capacity stadium. It may not be CAT 4, but so what the

But so what the new stadium won't be CAT 4 either

[ontheotherhand]

I totally agree with you on this. It could be completed in stages, without the need for Bohs to vacate the ground, for far less than 64 million euros and would provide a circa 10,000 capacity stadium. It may not be CAT 4, but so what the

It's probably buried in this thread but.....why isn't that the plan? Dalymount is a special place. For bohs, for Ireland, for Rovers....I'm going to miss it tbh. The Jodi doesn't even look to be in that bad a shape.

[EalingGreen]

Yes. And UEFA sanctioned them for a 'test' a few years ago, and all seemed to go well from their POV.Not just Germany, but the trial also covered France and England. And following a satisfactory trial, SS has now been permitted in those countries since 2022/23:
https://thefsa.org.uk/news/uefa-approves-safe-standing-use-at-european-games/

I don't know whether it has been extended elsewhere (suspect it has - Scotland perhaps?), but it's likely that UEFA need to be persuaded that SS is properly regulated by the relevant authorities in those countries.

[Nesta99]

The first SS trialled in Germany wasnt good at all!

[EatYerGreens]

There first SS trialled in Germany wasnt good at all!

Not very safe either. Though they put on some impressive displays :D

Maybe that's where the idea of 'ultras' wearing black originated from.