View Full Version : Stadium Updates (All Clubs)
White Horse
04/12/2015, 10:17 PM
We've a top notch ground just a pity we've the track around the pitch. All we need now is a decent team and we're on the ball.
The track is a small price play for such excellent facilities. Great set up.
Charlie Darwin
04/12/2015, 10:39 PM
Always felt that Shels made things tough for themselves by not going in to examinership and negotiating a few cent in the Euro with their creditors like Rovers and others. Was it out of a sense of duty to creditors or did they think that they would eventually be bailed out? Ive forgotten the details of the lease on Tolka if it was ever clear cut. I was of the opinion that it had been sold off to developers so how can it be used as leverage? Unless there was a very sensible clause in the sale that the lease is only handed over when an alternative ground is provided by the developer. Besides being broke the way Tolka has been left to crumble would imply that they werent responsible for its upkeep at all. Their hopes to have debts dealt with via a move is understandable but you would think they would jump at a move to a modern newly built ground that wasnt going to cost them. Anybody able to shine some light on the background on the Tolka lease?
I don't have intimate knowledge of the lease but I do know Shels are responsible for the upkeep of the stadium, and have invested quite a bit on it in recent years. You'd know yourself from Dundalk that even keeping a stadium ticking over costs a lot of money, let alone improving it.
Nesta99
05/12/2015, 11:59 PM
True, but Tolka was starting from a higher base than Oriel. I would have expected Shels to pay for upkeep as long as they were in Tolka - are the renting back the ground or do they still hold the lease. Drogheda are very quick to say dont look at us we dont own the ground if it is ever criticised, i'd imagine Drogheda pay some rent. If Shels are responsible it wood seem that they have a few fingers still clinging on to the lease going by this logic.
Dalymountrower
06/12/2015, 1:15 PM
AFAIK they have less than fifty years left of the original sporting lease on Tolka from Dublin Corp. They have hawked that lease around Dublin for the last twenty years to raise loans ,some to would-be property developers and some to even less savoury characters..It still has some value, but probably a lot less than their debts, given that's value is strongly influenced by the local authority that granted the lease
Problem now is that Tolka is on its last warning re a fire cert for the coming season and while a vocal element in Shels thought it a good strategy to hold out and play hard ball with DCC, they are left with no option now but to take whatever DCC offers them.
I expect a deal will be done which will involve DCC taking ownership, a shoot out between Shels and the creditors, minor remedial work on Tolka to allow for temp ground sharing there with Bohs in 2017/2018 and then a ground share in Dalymount.Alternatively Shels fold and re emerge as Shels 2016 and go back to Irish town where they belong.
.
Charlie Darwin
06/12/2015, 3:33 PM
I'm sure Shels would love to go to Irishtown but it's not going to happen, so I'm afraid they'll probably end up as your co-tenants.
toffeejay
06/12/2015, 4:15 PM
Shels have quite a bleak future I fear, if they where to stay at Tolka they'd be out of business in couple of years time. The only financial option is to move Dalymount, but I just wonder where are the future generation of fans going to come from?
Bohs are the team of the northside, it was bad enough being a southside team playing close to the Bohemian heartland but sharing their ground is going to kill off the support.
Charlie Darwin
06/12/2015, 4:23 PM
I don't think they really have a financial future. The only reason their debts haven't been called in, I suspect, is due to the claim they have on the Tolka lease which, contrary to what some people say, is actually worth something. If they accept the Dalymount deal I don't see how they'll ever got onside with their creditors.
nigel-harps1954
17/12/2015, 5:43 PM
http://www.finnharps.com/fhfc/?p=2702
Finn Harps statement on upgrades to Finn Park for the coming season and news on work re-commencing on the new stadium early in the new year.
ForzaHoop
18/12/2015, 10:33 AM
New stadium has to be a priority after last game against Limerick, the Club can pull over 4000 people like that then a descent stadium will defo draw more supporters each week, more support, more finances and better chance in the premier league
oriel
18/12/2015, 10:37 AM
http://www.finnharps.com/fhfc/?p=2702
Finn Harps statement on upgrades to Finn Park for the coming season and news on work re-commencing on the new stadium early in the new year.
Never been to Finn Park, looking forward to the fixture list coming out myself, would love a summer trip up, nice stay over too, actually any date will do.
wonder88
19/12/2015, 11:22 AM
New stadium has to be a priority after last game against Limerick, the Club can pull over 4000 people like that then a descent stadium will defo draw more supporters each week, more support, more finances and better chance in the premier league
Good facilities alone will not increase attendances at LoI games; see the comment above about RSC in Waterford. In fact if you look at the GAA, they have over-invested in facilities and the 60million plus going into Pairc Uí Choimh is very hard to justify. I would say that a nice ground is only about 20% of the package you need to increase crowds. Others are the standard/style of soccer on view, club engagement/connection with their community, how club officials/stewards/volunteers treat those who go to games, price of tickets/food, and promotion of club/games.
Bohs have consolidated their support in recent season without any improvements in facilities, and anyone who has been to a few of their games over last couple of seasons can notice a "good vibe" around the place which would encourage you to return.
Sam_Heggy
19/12/2015, 2:01 PM
New facilities certainly won't hurt a club where, run down grounds might.
The RSC is a great ground but, it's too far away from the pitch and very open. I wouldn't put it in the same catergory as a purpose built football stadium.
bluewhitearmy
19/12/2015, 2:08 PM
Better facilities at Markets Field has most definitely had a huge say on the improvement in crowds. Can say improvement was because we won a few games but the 19s game in Markets Field against Cork recently had 400 more at it than the senior game against Cork in Jackman earlier in the year.
outspoken
19/12/2015, 8:10 PM
Good facilities alone will not increase attendances at LoI games; see the comment above about RSC in Waterford. In fact if you look at the GAA, they have over-invested in facilities and the 60million plus going into Pairc Uí Choimh is very hard to justify. I would say that a nice ground is only about 20% of the package you need to increase crowds. Others are the standard/style of soccer on view, club engagement/connection with their community, how club officials/stewards/volunteers treat those who go to games, price of tickets/food, and promotion of club/games.
Bohs have consolidated their support in recent season without any improvements in facilities, and anyone who has been to a few of their games over last couple of seasons can notice a "good vibe" around the place which would encourage you to return.
Style of play is a fantasy when people say it improves attendances, people will support a winning team whether they play tica taca or hoofball
wonder88
20/12/2015, 12:08 AM
But you can only have a few winning teams. That is the problem, and why crowds are so poor in Irish soccer. If you have a team playing decent football, and the club do some of the other things I mentioned above well, there is a chance that you can have a reasonably sized loyal fanbase that helps pay the bills. "The support a winning team" is not unique to soccer by the way in Ireland.
Saw on twitter today some extracts from a study on LoI crowds put up by a guy from the Shels supporter trust. Only 25% of grounds capacity is used and of course there is a major bandwagon influence on attendances, are some of the findings.
redobit
20/12/2015, 2:04 PM
http://www.finnharps.com/fhfc/?p=2702
Finn Harps statement on upgrades to Finn Park for the coming season and news on work re-commencing on the new stadium early in the new year.
They didn't say which new year tho ...
ForzaHoop
23/12/2015, 8:05 AM
A better stadium for Harps would definitely attract better crowds but also much needed revenue with the bar, junior international games hosted there and also a venue for other things
I particularly look forward to the monkey knife fights in the new Finn Park.
gael353
23/12/2015, 6:43 PM
a lot of talk on here from ppl talking up very very substandard facilities. Reminds me of ppl exaggerating their attendances trying to cod people into believing that they deserve premier football due to imaginary attendances. For the record Athlone have the best stand and Harps terrace isn't at all bad but other then that its pretty ****e around the first division grounds. Has the pitch been laid in the harps new stadium yet?
northwestexile
28/12/2015, 9:33 PM
Any word on the progress at the Brandywell?
http://www.derryjournal.com/news/brandywell-redevelopment-project-proceeds-to-tendering-process-despite-protests-1-7113337
nigel-harps1954
28/12/2015, 10:52 PM
Any word on the progress at the Brandywell?
http://www.derryjournal.com/news/brandywell-redevelopment-project-proceeds-to-tendering-process-despite-protests-1-7113337
It's going so well for them they have to start their season in Finn Park like the chairman predicted.
brendy_éire
30/12/2015, 11:18 AM
Any word on the progress at the Brandywell?[/URL]
Council will, again, attempt to sort things out with the Greyhound fellas next month. If not, it could end up in court, so it's claimed.
ForzaHoop
05/01/2016, 2:26 PM
So any progress on any of the Grounds ?
oriel
05/01/2016, 10:56 PM
No news from Dundalk which means either no progress has been made between the parties on the lease or it has gone to further mediation. One thing is for sure, no improvements can take place unless the current owners get control of the lease.
brendy_éire
10/01/2016, 9:09 PM
Brandywell work to begin in July. We're asking the FAI to switch our last six home matches with the corresponding away matches from earlier in the season.
We were told preseason last year it was starting May past, but I'm one hundred million percent sure happening this time.....
Brandywell work to begin in July. We're asking the FAI to switch our last six home matches with the corresponding away matches from earlier in the season.
We were told preseason last year it was starting May past, but I'm one hundred million percent sure happening this time.....
So does this mean Derry could be playing their last 11 games away? Ouch!
And maybe have 12 home games in a row in midseason. No chance of FAI/clubs agreeing to that
Finn Park it is so
Why aren't Derry looking to use the other ground in the city? where Institute play, surely that has to be the better option? Plus they would have it to themselves from end of April if they could get agreement.
nigel-harps1954
11/01/2016, 8:12 AM
And maybe have 12 home games in a row in midseason. No chance of FAI/clubs agreeing to that
Finn Park it is so
More likely to be Maginn Park in Buncrana I'd suspect.
brendy_éire
11/01/2016, 8:14 AM
Why aren't Derry looking to use the other ground in the city? where Institute play, surely that has to be the better option?
That's easily the most sensible option, so I doubt we'll be doing that.
Meeting with Inishowen League on Friday about using Maginn Park in Buncrana. Lovely surface, but not a big ground at all. If we are choosing to play outside Derry, our season ticket sales will take a hammering.
Club press release (http://www.derrycityfc.net/brandywell-programme-of-works-announced)
The options are:
Switch fixtures
Riverside
Maginn Park
Finn Park.
That'd be my order of preference too.
1 or 2 fixtures you might have some chance of convincing the FAI and /or opposition to switch, 6 is taking the ****. Incidentally if Derry were to swtich the last 6 homes those games could only possibly be switched with games from th emiddle part of the season. They'd be in the Brandywell for 11 stragiht home games from stat of May til the end of July then away for 12 straight games from August to October. That's bat**** crazy. Have Derry thought about this at all?
Institute surely is the sensible option.
brendy_éire
11/01/2016, 10:01 AM
I can't see clubs involved caring all that much really, if that's even their decision to make. The only difference for them is a possible two away matches in row, some may prefer more home games towards the end of the season even?
The only concern I'd have about Riverside is the pitch. It's bumpy at the best of times, and if it was to rain a fair bit in September/October, and with two teans playing on it, it'd be pretty brutal.
Nesta99
11/01/2016, 10:34 AM
But does it have a hill? I think its really risky by the Derry board to even consider no home games for 3 months (or 8 months until the next home fixture) assuming all timing works out. A bad start to the league maybe causing reduced crowds, or poor season ticket sales due to the lack or concrete plans during the build would really hit home financially last third of the season with no income at all - all well and good having a nice done up ground but it needs a financially sound club in it too. There are too many variables with this imo. Players may not be too keen on signing if there is a risk of delayed payments come October if the club isnt flush. Then the footballing aspect too, Derry under a new manager are still in a transition, if involved in a relegation scrap it wont be nice to not have home advantage at the business end of the season - can you be safe when home games have run out? Can anyone assume no delays in building or funding that could carry over in to 2017?
Dodge
11/01/2016, 10:43 AM
Don't think they have a choice to be fair. Council doing the work so DCFC have no real say at this stage. Seems ludicrous but that's politics and football here, isn't it?
Nesta99
11/01/2016, 10:46 AM
Surely its at least somewhat in Derry's hands whether to seek fixture changes or prioritise a groundshare with Institute, even if they have to pay a premium as it could be cheaper in the long run!?
Charlie Darwin
11/01/2016, 10:51 AM
I can't see clubs involved caring all that much really, if that's even their decision to make. The only difference for them is a possible two away matches in row, some may prefer more home games towards the end of the season even?
The only concern I'd have about Riverside is the pitch. It's bumpy at the best of times, and if it was to rain a fair bit in September/October, and with two teans playing on it, it'd be pretty brutal.
I'd say most teams would prefer to have the home games earlier.
Dodge
11/01/2016, 11:06 AM
Surely its at least somewhat in Derry's hands whether to seek fixture changes or prioritise a groundshare with Institute, even if they have to pay a premium as it could be cheaper in the long run!?
Sorry, yeah. that's all them. I'm just saying they can't really dictate to the council about when the work is done.
There's zero chance of the FAI giving them 11/12 home games in a row
redobit
11/01/2016, 11:31 AM
I can't see clubs involved caring all that much really, if that's even their decision to make. The only difference for them is a possible two away matches in row, some may prefer more home games towards the end of the season even?
The only concern I'd have about Riverside is the pitch. It's bumpy at the best of times, and if it was to rain a fair bit in September/October, and with two teans playing on it, it'd be pretty brutal.
Ya think. Clubs plan their season and to pay their players based on the home game receipts. Which for the most part is every two weeks. I doubt teams that aren't going to be title chasing or looking for the European spots will want to play extra gams at the end of the season. More likely they want home games at the start of the season when there is something to play for and a bit more hype. Across the road to Finn Park for a season is no big deal considering you'll have a nice new shinny brandywell to play in.
Nah Nah Nah Nah
11/01/2016, 11:55 AM
Why are ye only going for a 3G pitch? 4G cost that much more or is there not really that big a difference?
brendy_éire
11/01/2016, 12:15 PM
3G is the standard artificial.
4G is basically a meaningless phrase companies use to sell their product (I think there's '6G' pitches these days and all). The pitch will be your usual plastic grass with sand/rubber granules.
The quality of the pitch will be decent, according to Roddy Collins it'll be "far better than that muck Dundalk play on". It'll be the same as the ones in Seaview and Solitude.
Real ale Madrid
11/01/2016, 12:43 PM
3G is the standard artificial.
4G is basically a meaningless phrase companies use to sell their product (I think there's '6G' pitches these days and all). The pitch will be your usual plastic grass with sand/rubber granules.
The quality of the pitch will be decent, according to Roddy Collins it'll be "far better than that muck Dundalk play on". It'll be the same as the ones in Seaview and Solitude.
That must make Oriel Park 0.25G
punkrocket
11/01/2016, 1:32 PM
The options are:
Switch fixtures
Riverside
Maginn Park
Finn Park.
That'd be my order of preference too.
Is Celtic Park completely out of the question?
colonelwest
11/01/2016, 1:56 PM
3G is the standard artificial.
4G is basically a meaningless phrase companies use to sell their product (I think there's '6G' pitches these days and all). The pitch will be your usual plastic grass with sand/rubber granules.
The quality of the pitch will be decent, according to Roddy Collins it'll be "far better than that muck Dundalk play on". It'll be the same as the ones in Seaview and Solitude.
http://i.imgur.com/UJFR8fF.png
I can't see clubs involved caring all that much really, if that's even their decision to make. The only difference for them is a possible two away matches in row
just checked Pats there. Only game scheduled for Brandywell is the 5th of August. If that was to be switched, it'd have to be with the 1st series (as last game of the season is Pats v Derry). It would mean that between 23 April and 10 May Pats would have 4 away games in a row (Bray, Cork, Derry and Galway). They've every right to object to that
White Horse
11/01/2016, 2:17 PM
4G is basically a meaningless phrase companies use to sell their product.
It is 1 better than 3G.
(nod to Spinal Tap)
brendy_éire
11/01/2016, 3:36 PM
Is Celtic Park completely out of the question?
I'd imagine so. No mention of it as an option, and I very much doubt the Derry county board would be accommodating.
Would the Derry County board even have a right to discuss it? I thought central council would have to give their OK to any GAA ground be used for foreign games.
Nah Nah Nah Nah
11/01/2016, 9:06 PM
Would the Derry County board even have a right to discuss it? I thought central council would have to give their OK to any GAA ground be used for foreign games.
yeah pretty sure that is the case
brendy_éire
12/01/2016, 7:41 AM
Would the Derry County board even have a right to discuss it? I thought central council would have to give their OK to any GAA ground be used for foreign games.
That would actually make the use of Celtic Park more likely. Derry county board voted against opening up Croke Park to those foreign games.
There would be something rather wonderful about using Celtic Park against the wishes of the county board. Won't happen of course..
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.