Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

[bohsmug]

Nothing much to add but last night's meeting with the council and architects is the first time I've allowed myself to get fully excited about the Dalymount development. Felt like a big step to be in with the design team and not just board members, who have always been very positive about the development but ultimately are Bohs fans so their motivation and desire is obvious. I do feel like this will happen.

[David BOHie]

Nothing much to add but last night's meeting with the council and architects is the first time I've allowed myself to get fully excited about the Dalymount development. Felt like a big step to be in with the design team and not just board members, who have always been very positive about the development but ultimately are Bohs fans so their motivation and desire is obvious. I do feel like this will happen.

Was the gradient of the new stands compared to the Jodi at all by any chance? THat's my only concern about the new stadium

[Neish]

Definitely agree. A limit of 8,000 will become too constricting for Bohs. 10,000 feels about right. 8,000 would also be a bit of a slap in the jaw for 'The Home of Irish Football'.

Its approaching 4 decades since it was the home of Irish football can they really use that anymore?

Bohs averaged around 3.5k last season and whilst their average has been steadily increasing over last few years they have a long way to go to get anywhere near 10k. IMO 3.5k-4k in and 8k capacity looks and sounds better than same amount in a 10k stadium, if over half the stadium is going to be empty 90% of the time its wasted money . Grant or government funding that could be better spent elsewhere in LOI or in grassroots game

[Philosophizer]

Its approaching 4 decades since it was the home of Irish football can they really use that anymore?

Bohs averaged around 3.5k last season and whilst their average has been steadily increasing over last few years they have a long way to go to get anywhere near 10k. IMO 3.5k-4k in and 8k capacity looks and sounds better than same amount in a 10k stadium, if over half the stadium is going to be empty 90% of the time its wasted money . Grant or government funding that could be better spent elsewhere in LOI or in grassroots game
The money is coming from DCC though. Any savings wont get redirected to grassroots or elsewhere in LOI, it goes back into DCC coffers.

If you wanna keep costs down, by far the best option is to keep the current Jodi and rebuild 3 other sides. That’s still my preferred option but seems long off the table now.

I don’t doubt 3.5k was an average last year but I’d say a lot of that was due to limited capacity. I live near phibsboro and getting tickets for any games the past 2 years has been v tricky. Matches regularly sell out weeks in advance, especially the bigger games. As for the derby, they probably sell out months in advance.

Only 10 yrs ago I remember strolling into Dalymount on a Fri eve and there might only be 600 there. Getting a ticket was the least of your problems.

I reckon if the clubs continue building on their current trajectory the Dublin clubs could average 5K and aim towards 10K for the biggest games like Dublin derbies, euro matches, and especially the Bohs v Rovers games.

How ridiculous would it be in 5 years if Bohs had to continue turning away people for the Dublin derbies because the redeveloped Dalymount only holds 8K. (The official figure is actually lower than 8. I think it’s around 7.8K).

I suppose the fully expanded Tallaght when it opens this summer will be a very good barometer. If Rovers can get 10K for big matches like derbies and euro games etc, then 10K should be the aim for other clubs.

[nigel-harps1954]

8k with only 6k seats is short sighted thinking with the way the league is going, and the way the likes of Bohs are growing and turning away crowds with their capacity issue.

[SPXcyan]

Seating is all nice and good yeah but don't a lot of supporters prefer to stand? seems like a good idea to install at least one covered terrace in every stadium.
Now let's install a terrace into the RSC yeah?!

[nigel-harps1954]

Seating is all nice and good yeah but don't a lot of supporters prefer to stand? seems like a good idea to install at least one covered terrace in every stadium.
Now let's install a terrace into the RSC yeah?!

Nothing wrong with terracing, over the moon that we're getting a terrace in Finn Harps new stadium because I hate sitting down at matches. The overall 8k (including 6k seats) is where the issue is. 10k with 8k seats, capable of potentially hosting European group stage action, is what Dalymount should have been.

[David BOHie]

Its approaching 4 decades since it was the home of Irish football can they really use that anymore?

Bohs averaged around 3.5k last season and whilst their average has been steadily increasing over last few years they have a long way to go to get anywhere near 10k. IMO 3.5k-4k in and 8k capacity looks and sounds better than same amount in a 10k stadium, if over half the stadium is going to be empty 90% of the time its wasted money . Grant or government funding that could be better spent elsewhere in LOI or in grassroots game

Bohs have sold out their home allocation in 90% of games last year (albeit it was about 2800 people). In many games, folks bought tickets to the away end to get in.

This year our home allocation is 4k with the rejig of Dalymount and again we've sold out or home allocation in pretty much every game. Our away stand has sold out in 3 of 5 games too.

My point is, demand for Bohs tickets is far outweighing supply. I easily see us averaging 6k in the new stadium with Dublin Derbys and other andom big games selling out.

Most people agree that 8k is too small and DCC should be aiming for 10k. I believe there are some problems anticipated with 10k in terms of both funding and planning permission so I'm happy to take 8k to get the ball rolling.

[Philosophizer]

Most people agree that 8k is too small and DCC should be aiming for 10k. I believe there are some problems anticipated with 10k in terms of both funding and planning permission so I'm happy to take 8k to get the ball rolling.
Does the latest plan leave any possibility of expansion in the future to say 10K or 12K if necessary down the road?

[Shearer]

Council confirm discussion on the future of the Markets Field (https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-news/council-confirm-discussion-on-the-future-of-the-markets-field/)

[David BOHie]

Does the latest plan leave any possibility of expansion in the future to say 10K or 12K if necessary down the road?

I don't believe so

[EatYerGreens]

Its approaching 4 decades since it was the home of Irish football can they really use that anymore?

I don't see why not. At least until somewhere else can credibly claim the title. I don't think Lansdowne can, as would be strange to claim that the home of Irish football is a rugby stadium that the game only has an agreement to use for a fixed number of years.


Bohs averaged around 3.5k last season and whilst their average has been steadily increasing over last few years they have a long way to go to get anywhere near 10k. IMO 3.5k-4k in and 8k capacity looks and sounds better than same amount in a 10k stadium, if over half the stadium is going to be empty 90% of the time its wasted money . Grant or government funding that could be better spent elsewhere in LOI or in grassroots game

Irish football has plenty of scope for growth, and clear signs that it is slowly but surely starting to experience it. As pointed out by others, the crowds at Dalymount have been limited by capacity constraints. And then here's the uplift in numbers gained purely from a new stadium. So if Rovers can justify a 10,000 capacity stadium I see no reason why Bohs can't too. On current numbers I'd fully expect their average to definitely be above 5,000 in a new Dalymount. And by the time it's built that figure will probably be higher again.

BTW - if a club was averagng crowds of 10,000 (which you say Bohs are a long way from achieving), then a 10,000 capacity stadium would clearly too small for them. You don't build a house for the size of family you have now, but for the size you expect you'll need in future. I'd say a 10,000 stadium would be ideal for a club averaging around 7,500-8,000 crowds - as it would provide room for bigger gates when needed. I can honestly see Bohs growing to that kind of level over the next 10-15yrs, especially with the bounce of a new stadium and if they continue the work they're doing in the community and to create a strong brand for themselves. Not to mention the likely large population growth in North Dublin.

[Shinkicker]

Its approaching 4 decades since it was the home of Irish football can they really use that anymore?

Bohs averaged around 3.5k last season and whilst their average has been steadily increasing over last few years they have a long way to go to get anywhere near 10k. IMO 3.5k-4k in and 8k capacity looks and sounds better than same amount in a 10k stadium, if over half the stadium is going to be empty 90% of the time its wasted money . Grant or government funding that could be better spent elsewhere in LOI or in grassroots game
I think your average crowd number is a bit low, however you have to remember the size of the crowds at Dalymount are restricted by most of it being unusable. By all accounts the demand for tickets is always higher to what can be supplied. I would hate to think a new Dalymount holding 7.5k-8k would still leave people without tickets. Build a 10k seater stadium and IF only 8k turn up that's fine but we all know the club support is growing and the larger stadium will future proof the supply and demand for sometime. Imagine 5 or 6 years down the line jumping through hoops to get planning and finance to expand, it won't happen!

[Neish]

I think your average crowd number is a bit low, however you have to remember the size of the crowds at Dalymount are restricted by most of it being unusable. By all accounts the demand for tickets is always higher to what can be supplied. I would hate to think a new Dalymount holding 7.5k-8k would still leave people without tickets. Build a 10k seater stadium and IF only 8k turn up that's fine but we all know the club support is growing and the larger stadium will future proof the supply and demand for sometime. Imagine 5 or 6 years down the line jumping through hoops to get planning and finance to expand, it won't happen!

My average went by their average crowds for the last few years and you're right about that the fact only 1 stand and 1 end being used in Dalymount severely restricts capacity, but when is the last time a LOI game came close to selling over 8k tickets. Maybe the Bohs Vs Shams games, games in europe or a friendly against a big UK/European side may do so, but as I said 90% of the time a 10k stadium will be lucky to be more than 35-40% full in the LOI

[bohsmug]

Seems like the biggest issue for any expansion/higher capacity is access and egress due to the size of the site. We have an awful long way to go before 8k isn't enough. Modern health and safety standards and the shrinking site due to the historic sale of the Phibsboro Shopping Centre End dictate that. If we ever get to the point of needing further expansion maybe something will be figured out but would seem unlikely to pass any kind of cost/benefit analysis (would you have to buy sections of land from residents gardens?). Think the club have pushed this to it's limit and we're probably getting more than we could reasonably expect.

[EalingGreen]

Its approaching 4 decades since [Dalymount] was the home of Irish football can they really use that anymore?


I don't see why not. At least until somewhere else can credibly claim the title.
Hmmm.

I imagine the good folk at Cliftonville FC might have something to say in that regard. Or, if you're speaking less literally/more figuratively, then Belfast surely holds the title, no?

Though Dalymount is certainly the home of football in Dublin, or Republic of Ireland if you prefer.

HTH

[Buller]

I saw somewhere that the new stands in Dalymount were limited to 9 meters height on purpose to remove the possibility of objections. The South Stand in Tallaght is 14 meters high with good viewing angles and was completed for €2m.
South Stand Tallaght Stadium (https://www.abmdesignandbuild.com/wp-content/uploads/FactSheet-Tallaght-Stadium-1.pdf)

Its mad that the new Dalymount will cost €40m for 2 debatably inferior stands. (I know one of them will have corporate glass so that increases the cost) DCC seemed intent on the rotating pitch option.

Would have loved to see a big 4000+ seater stand opposite the Jodi and new Des Kelly terrace . Jodi could have been for away fans.

[Shinkicker]

I saw somewhere that the new stands in Dalymount were limited to 9 meters height on purpose to remove the possibility of objections. The South Stand in Tallaght is 14 meters high with good viewing angles and was completed for €2m.
South Stand Tallaght Stadium (https://www.abmdesignandbuild.com/wp-content/uploads/FactSheet-Tallaght-Stadium-1.pdf)

Its mad that the new Dalymount will cost €40m for 2 debatably inferior stands. (I know one of them will have corporate glass so that increases the cost) DCC seemed intent on the rotating pitch option.

Would have loved to see a big 4000+ seater stand opposite the Jodi and new Des Kelly terrace . Jodi could have been for away fans.
It's crazy, the Connaught St terrace and the Jodi had to be more than 9mtrs high and those heights should still be permissible. Who was the SC end sold to?

[pineapple stu]

Though Dalymount is certainly the home of football in Dublin, or Republic of Ireland if you prefer.
That's a bit like saying famine cottages are the home of the Irish people.

Pretty much nobody under 40 will have ever seen Ireland play a game in Dalyer. Times move on. The home of Irish football is a rugby ground now.

[bohsmug]

I saw somewhere that the new stands in Dalymount were limited to 9 meters height on purpose to remove the possibility of objections. The South Stand in Tallaght is 14 meters high with good viewing angles and was completed for €2m.
South Stand Tallaght Stadium (https://www.abmdesignandbuild.com/wp-content/uploads/FactSheet-Tallaght-Stadium-1.pdf)

Its mad that the new Dalymount will cost €40m for 2 debatably inferior stands. (I know one of them will have corporate glass so that increases the cost) DCC seemed intent on the rotating pitch option.

Would have loved to see a big 4000+ seater stand opposite the Jodi and new Des Kelly terrace . Jodi could have been for away fans.

It does seem a very high price alright but I'm a bit lost with the price of everything at the moment. I don't really know what the breakdown of that cost is (even roughly). Don't know if it includes demolition cost, does it include the money already spent on the process (probably?). Can't really debate about inferior stands yet because we still haven't seen that much detail really so there's not a lot of comparison to be made. It was mentioned that the height would be around the same as the Jodi Stand, maybe slightly higher.

Tallaght has tall all-seater stands and decent sized gaps in and around the corner flags, with a final capacity above 10k. Dalymount is currently envisioned to have a mix of terracing and seating with a final capacity of circa 8k and looks like they'll try to fill every gap with some kind of accommodation, even if very small. Dalymount is an urban development boxed in by schools, houses and shops. Tallaght is a greenfield, more suburban site. They're just very different developments really. I didn't hear any mention of safe standing type accommodation in either of the pitchside stands but they'd be better off trying to get something like that in, particularly if the culture of standing towards the corner blocks of the main stand remains. The terraces behind the goal are too small to create that kind of visual effect the corner in the Jodi has.

[passinginterest]

Who was the SC end sold to?

The first time or the second time? Fairly sure it was the owners of the shopping centre who ended up with it, but open to correction.

The proposed development looks good. 8,000 is reasonable I think. While there's great momentum behind the league at the moment, you'd probably get much better odds that it's a short term anomaly rather than a long term trend. If Bohs are filling 8,000 every week they'll probably have the funds then to either relocate or expand the development somehow. It would be a great problem to have.

[Shinkicker]

The first time or the second time? Fairly sure it was the owners of the shopping centre who ended up with it, but open to correction.

The proposed development looks good. 8,000 is reasonable I think. While there's great momentum behind the league at the moment, you'd probably get much better odds that it's a short term anomaly rather than a long term trend. If Bohs are filling 8,000 every week they'll probably have the funds then to either relocate or expand the development somehow. It would be a great problem to have.
If Bohs relocated the residents will be getting looked upon by the folk in the new apartments. Then they'd would want the ground to stay. I personally would love to see Bohs stay where they are.

[SkStu]

Just build it strong and allow history to repeat itself. Get a ladder for Rocketman.

Problem solved.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWs4SPUUMAAHe3N?format=jpg&name=medium

https://www.independent.ie/incoming/2f0c8/39181116.ece/AUTOCROP/h1060/186024.jpg

[EalingGreen]

That's a bit like saying famine cottages are the home of the Irish people.

Pretty much nobody under 40 will have ever seen Ireland play a game in Dalyer. Times move on. The home of Irish football is a rugby ground now.Eh?

The point I was making was that "Irish football" encompasses more than just the 26 counties.

Football in Ireland (island) started officially in 1880, in Belfast, making claims for anywhere in Dublin to be "The Home of Irish Football" quite simply wrong.

"IFA - Original & Best" :good:

[Martinho II]

Just build it strong and allow history to repeat itself. Get a ladder for Rocketman.

Problem solved.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWs4SPUUMAAHe3N?format=jpg&name=medium

https://www.independent.ie/incoming/2f0c8/39181116.ece/AUTOCROP/h1060/186024.jpg

Remember seeing that picture before. what year was that took?

[nigel-harps1954]

Remember seeing that picture before. what year was that took?

2017.

[Martinho II]

2017.

Think that picture is way older before H&S was in force!

[pineapple stu]

Eh?

The point I was making was that "Irish football" encompasses more than just the 26 counties.

Football in Ireland (island) started officially in 1880, in Belfast, making claims for anywhere in Dublin to be "The Home of Irish Football" quite simply wrong.

"IFA - Original & Best" :good:
Well, ok; that's fair. Though given the country is called Ireland, it's hardly incorrect to use the adjective "Irish".

And Dalymount still isn't the home of anyone other than Bohs these days.

[SkStu]

Remember seeing that picture before. what year was that took?

first pic is 1973 - second pic is an Irish game in 1985 (Italy).

if you cant see the first pic (I can but it wasnt the usual .jpg format) - the tweet is here:

1255161853333757952

[Calcio Jack]

first pic is 1973 - second pic is an Irish game in 1985 (Italy).

if you cant see the first pic (I can but it wasnt the usual .jpg format) - the tweet is here:

1255161853333757952

The photo (1973) is from famous the 3-0 ( Brady’s debut) win over the USSR- and yes I’m one of the over 40s that was there…. As time goes by I’m starting to feel like the Woody Allen character Zelig

[wonder88]

Halloween night, watching the highlights with Jimmy Magee on commentary, some performance a 3 nil against the Soviet Union. How far we have gone backwards in senior International soccer since.

[EalingGreen]

Well, ok; that's fair. Though given the country is called Ireland, it's hardly incorrect to use the adjective "Irish".
Maybe, but how would you react is eg teams from NI routinely referred to themselves simply as "Irish"?

Remember that southern international teams (for want of a better term) do not represent the state which chooses to call itself "Ireland". Rather they represent the FAI, under which it is required by FIFA to call its representative teams "Republic of Ireland".

By the same token, teams representing the IFA are called "Northern Ireland" (though technically I believe the IFA could still use the name "Ireland" in matches which are not also open to FAI teams - World Cup, Euro's etc - effectively friendlies, also the British Championship as was).

And why do I make this point? Aside from a general concern for accuracy*, it is because I resent the implication in their use of "Ireland" over "Republic of Ireland" that FAI teams are somehow the "real" Ireland, with NI being relegated to some sort of idiosyncratic appendage.

And maybe it's also because when I first went to internationals in Belfast (l971 onwards), we fans routinely sung and chanted for "Ireland", while FAI teams were routinely referred to as "Eire", in both parts of Ireland and beyond. While the fact of the IFA subsequently choosing to call its teams "Northern Ireland" from the 1980's onwards was a courtesy and respect to its neighbours which is not currently being reciprocated.

Above all, we in NI have at least as proud a place in the story of Irish football, and a hell of a sight older one, as our neighbours, such that if anywhere should be entitled to call itself the "Home of Irish Football", that place should undoubtedly be in Belfast/NI and nowhere else.

Rant over.

* - Some might call it pedantry :)

[bohsmug]

Dalymount Park was part of that version of Ireland too. Opened in 1901 and extremely proud to have won the IFA Cup, the Belfast teams were generally stronger and a tough nut to crack. Getting into dodgy territory if you insist the stadium can't refer to being Irish, whatever about being the "home" of it.

I'm not saying large parts of your reply aren't without credit and aren't interesting to read but I shouldn't be able to object to anybody from this Island referring to themselves as also being Irish if they wish, no matter what their politics are. I don't think many would have an issue with that and if they did they'd have to have a long look at themselves. Some might have an issue with somebody referring to themselves as both British and Irish, I can't deny that, but they'd be intolerant (or probably just ignorant) too, and they'd be wrong imo. That's an identity that exists and that doesn't get acknowledged enough down here. What has this got to do with future stadium developments anyway?

[John83]

Maybe, but how would you react is eg teams from NI routinely referred to themselves simply as "Irish"?
This is one of the most ignorant takes I've ever read. How do you think Irish people feel about northerners appropriating the adjective describing our ethnicity that would be entirely uncomplicated if their ancestors hadn't been planted on the island on lands seized by force creating centuries of ethnic tensions that lead to partition of the island, a civil rights crisis, and decades of simmering civil war? But, hey, they've been using that term for their football team for decades now: it's all settled, lads.

[pineapple stu]

Remember that southern international teams (for want of a better term) do not represent the state which chooses to call itself "Ireland". Rather they represent the FAI, under which it is required by FIFA to call its representative teams "Republic of Ireland".

And why do I make this point? Aside from a general concern for accuracy*, it is because I resent the implication in their use of "Ireland" over "Republic of Ireland" that FAI teams are somehow the "real" Ireland, with NI being relegated to some sort of idiosyncratic appendage.

And maybe it's also because when I first went to internationals in Belfast (l971 onwards), we fans routinely sung and chanted for "Ireland", while FAI teams were routinely referred to as "Eire",
Actually the FAI does represent the country called Ireland. FIFA don't make countries. They just settle disputes. There's no such country as the Republic of Ireland (which is just a descriptor term, like the Kingdom of Belgium)

So yes, the FAI does represent the country called Ireland - even so far as being told by FIFA it had jurisdiction over the 26 counties - and the IFA is the rump. Not liking it doesn't make it false or inaccurate.

Views from 1970s Northern Ireland are generally best left in the 70s tbh. The North was routinely referred to in 60s Irish media as "The Six Counties FA". But we've moved on

Windsor is part of the almost uniquely complicated history of Irish football. But it's not the home of Irish football, and nor is Dalyer. And nor is the Belgrade stadium the home of Croatian football any more

[2 Year Contract]

Actually the FAI does represent the country called Ireland. FIFA don't make countries. They just settle disputes. There's no such country as the Republic of Ireland (which is just a descriptor term, like the Kingdom of Belgium)

Spot on there Stu


Article 4 of the Constitution of Ireland declares that the name of the state is Ireland; Section 2 of the Republic of Ireland act 1948 declares that Republic of Ireland is "the description of the State".

The whole “home of Irish football” thing about Dalymount is a throwaway nickname that (mainly) Bohs fans seem to want to keep alive when, as mentioned, it hasn’t been a reality for decades. “The home of (insert any country) football” is the place where their national Cup Final is hosted and also in most cases where their national team play.

For what it’s worth Oriel Park I believe has signage on the front entrance to their main stand that says “The Home of Football” which if anything is just hilarious. Moral of the story is it’s probably best not to get too precious over fans painting their clubs’ home in a positive light and probably just have a laugh at it

[sbgawa]

Spot on there Stu



The whole “home of Irish football” thing about Dalymount is a throwaway nickname that (mainly) Bohs fans seem to want to keep alive when, as mentioned, it hasn’t been a reality for decades. “The home of (insert any country) football” is the place where their international team play and where their Cup Final is hosted.

For what it’s worth Oriel Park I believe has signage on the front entrance to their main stand that says “The Home of Football” which if anything is just hilarious. Moral of the story is it’s probably best not to get too precious over fans painting their clubs’ home in a positive light and probably just have a laugh at it

I've always considered the Dalymount "home of irish football" to be a joke on Bohs that they dont appear to get, bit like the comments in the Press about Rovers being "cup specialists" pre our win in 2019 for the first time in 30 years.

That being said i was at matches in Dalymount but even then i always felt like it summed up footballs place in IReland that we had to play in a dive.
Thankfully times have changed

[Buller]

I've always wondered about that actually, what were they smoking up in Dundalk when they slapped "Home of Irish Football" up on Oriel Park!!

[EalingGreen]

Dalymount Park was part of that version of Ireland too. Opened in 1901 and extremely proud to have won the IFA Cup, the Belfast teams were generally stronger and a tough nut to crack. Of course DP has a history, and a proud one too. But my simple point is that referring to somewhere as "The home of..." implies that that is where it all started.
And the simple, undeniable fact is that Football in Ireland all started in Belfast, over 2 decades before eg Dalymount even existed.


Getting into dodgy territory if you insist the stadium can't refer to being Irish, whatever about being the "home" of it.It isn't the "Irish" I'm objecting to - how could I? - rather it's the "home" bit, whether spiritual or physical.


I'm not saying large parts of your reply aren't without credit and aren't interesting to read but I shouldn't be able to object to anybody from this Island referring to themselves as also being Irish if they wish, no matter what their politics are. I don't think many would have an issue with that and if they did they'd have to have a long look at themselves. Some might have an issue with somebody referring to themselves as both British and Irish, I can't deny that, but they'd be intolerant (or probably just ignorant) too, and they'd be wrong imo. That's an identity that exists and that doesn't get acknowledged enough down here.Thank you.


What has this got to do with future stadium developments anyway?There is sometimes the view expressed that the new Dalymount might or should be bigger/better etc, on the basis that it is the "Home of Irish Football."

And while that shouldn't matter a great deal in the grand scheme of things, as someone who is interested in the whole history of the game, it irks me - probably more than it should :)

[Straightstory]

The Ireland 3 USSR 0 game was 1974 (not '73).
I was at that game, and there was no question at the time that Dalymount was the 'home' of Irish football. I have to say, I still think that's true, though I can obviously see that if you don't remember that era (almost fifty years ago) then you might feel different about it. 'Original', home might be more appropriate. Up until the mid 70s. every international and every Cup Final was played there. (Let's leave Northern Ireland out of this; I see we've already had one predictably sectarian response along nakedly tribal lines).

[EalingGreen]

This is one of the most ignorant takes I've ever read. How do you think Irish people feel about northerners appropriating the adjective describing our ethnicity that would be entirely uncomplicated if their ancestors hadn't been planted on the island on lands seized by force creating centuries of ethnic tensions that lead to partition of the island, a civil rights crisis, and decades of simmering civil war? But, hey, they've been using that term for their football team for decades now: it's all settled, lads.Shouldn't you be posting on (ahem) a Gaelic football forum?

Anyhow, being "Irish" is absolutely nothing to do with "Ethnicity", as I'm sure eg Leo Varadkar, Paul McGrath or Phil Lynott would agree.

And I'm Irish because I was brought up in Ireland, as were all my parents, grandparents and great grandparents (and who knows how many generations further back?), from places as far apart as Antrim, Fermanagh, Leitrim and Tipperary.

Anyhow Mr. Biden, Air Force One is waiting on the tarmac and you're needed elsewhere.... :rolleyes:

[EalingGreen]

Actually the FAI does represent the country called Ireland. FIFA don't make countries. They just settle disputes. There's no such country as the Republic of Ireland (which is just a descriptor term, like the Kingdom of Belgium)

So yes, the FAI does represent the country called Ireland - even so far as being told by FIFA it had jurisdiction over the 26 counties - and the IFA is the rump. Not liking it doesn't make it false or inaccurate.Of course FIFA don't "make" countries - that is my whole point! For if it did, places like Faroes, Kosovo, Gibraltar, Macau, England(!) etc wouldn't have international football teams.

Instead, as the Federation of International Football Associations, it recognises and represents Football Associations and their representative teams in international competition. Which is why there are two international football teams in Ireland, one representing the IFA and required to be called "Northern Ireland", and the other representing the FAI and required to be called "Republic of Ireland".

And if anyone wants to know where this all happened first, it was in Belfast, in 1880, with the IFA - making Belfast the indisputable "home" (birthplace) of football in Ireland.


Views from 1970s Northern Ireland are generally best left in the 70s tbh. The North was routinely referred to in 60s Irish media as "The Six Counties FA". But we've moved onWhat do you mean by "60's Irish media"? The Irish Independent or Cork Examiner? The Daily Mirror, perhaps?

Do media like eg The Belfast Telegraph, or the Belfast Newsletter (coincidentally the oldest continuously published newspaper in the world) not count as "Irish" too? For I certainly don't ever recall them ever referring to "The Six Counties FA", a term which is so ignorant as to be laughable.

Fact is, you cannot simply write Northern Ireland out of its place in the history of Ireland, no matter how inconvenient or irritating its existence is, especially when it comes to matters football.

Meanwhile, if people want to discuss political matters like what the State whose capital city is in Dublin chooses to call itself, then count me out - I'm only here for the football.

[pineapple stu]

Of course FIFA don't "make" countries - that is my whole point! For if it did, places like Faroes, Kosovo, Gibraltar, Macau, England(!) etc wouldn't have international football teams.

Instead, as the Federation of International Football Associations, it recognises and represents Football Associations and their representative teams in international competition. Which is why there are two international football teams in Ireland, one representing the IFA and required to be called "Northern Ireland", and the other representing the FAI and required to be called "Republic of Ireland".
Yes, the FAI team is required to be called the "Republic of Ireland", but it can't represent the Republic of Ireland as there's no such country. It's a term used nowhere else but in football to the best of my knowledge. The FAI absolutely does represent the country called "Ireland", and we know this because FIFA explicitly admitted the FAI on the basis that it only organised football in the 26 counties. The IFA does not, any more, represent the country called Ireland, despite what its fans may think about a competition that hasn't been run in nearly 40 years. It represents the country called Northern Ireland (which, like England, is a country - it's just happens to be, strangely, a country within a country) and has a mandate to organise football only within the six counties.

The state whose capital city is in Dublin is called Ireland. That's literally a statement of fact enshrined in the Constitution. I'm not sure (and indeed don't really care) what discussion there is to be had there.

I'm clearly not writing Northern Ireland out of its place in the history of Ireland - I am, however, stating that neither Belfast nor Windsor Park nor Dalymount Park are the home of Irish football.

[EalingGreen]

Yes, the FAI team is required to be called the "Republic of Ireland", but it can't represent the Republic of Ireland as there's no such country. It's a term used nowhere else but in football to the best of my knowledge. The FAI absolutely does represent the country called "Ireland", and we know this because FIFA explicitly admitted the FAI on the basis that it only organised football in the 26 counties. The IFA does not, any more, represent the country called Ireland, despite what its fans may think about a competition that hasn't been run in nearly 40 years. It represents the country called Northern Ireland (which, like England, is a country - it's just happens to be, strangely, a country within a country) and has a mandate to organise football only within the six counties.
Once again, that's my whole point! The team does not represent the State, however it calls itself, rather it represents the Football Association of Ireland.

Otherwise, how do you account for the fact that the UN has 193 independent Member States, while FIFA has 211 Member Associations?

No matter how much you dislike or deny it, the FAI and "Ireland" (if you insist) are simply not coterminous.


The state whose capital city is in Dublin is called Ireland. That's literally a statement of fact enshrined in the Constitution. I'm not sure (and indeed don't really care) what discussion there is to be had there.
No, the state whose capital city is Dublin calls itself Ireland and if that's what you prefer, go ahead.

I could call myself King of Ireland, though it wouldn't make me so. But however you argue the political case, when it comes to football, the international team which plays its games in Dublin is called "Republic of Ireland" - it's all in here: www.fifa.com


I'm clearly not writing Northern Ireland out of its place in the history of Ireland - I am, however, stating that neither Belfast nor Windsor Park nor Dalymount Park are the home of Irish football.

[nigel-harps1954]

Funny, there's 380 pages on the stadium updates thread, and we're fittingly back talking about 1880, the formation of football in Ireland, and the breakaway of the FAI from the IFA, which coincidentally was the last time anything was actually built for football here..

[Calcio Jack]

Yes, the FAI team is required to be called the "Republic of Ireland", but it can't represent the Republic of Ireland as there's no such country. It's a term used nowhere else but in football to the best of my knowledge. The FAI absolutely does represent the country called "Ireland", and we know this because FIFA explicitly admitted the FAI on the basis that it only organised football in the 26 counties. The IFA does not, any more, represent the country called Ireland, despite what its fans may think about a competition that hasn't been run in nearly 40 years. It represents the country called Northern Ireland (which, like England, is a country - it's just happens to be, strangely, a country within a country) and has a mandate to organise football only within the six counties.

The state whose capital city is in Dublin is called Ireland. That's literally a statement of fact enshrined in the Constitution. I'm not sure (and indeed don't really care) what discussion there is to be had there.

I'm clearly not writing Northern Ireland out of its place in the history of Ireland - I am, however, stating that neither Belfast nor Windsor Park nor Dalymount Park are the home of Irish football.

Way back the term Republic of Ireland was used on an extradition order for I think it was Dessie Ellis…. His barrister launched a successful challenge based on the description being used (ROI) rather than the correct legal name Ireland and was successful.

So in the ‘real world’ the title ROI is a useful way for distinguishing between Ireland and Northern Ireland …. So split hairs all you wish but for me and most others it will continue to be used as a term of clarity so it makes sense as I say in the ‘real world’

[brendy_éire]

'Ireland' to has two meanings, so isn't ideal. 'The North' and 'the South' work grand for people who need to differiate on a daily basis, like the ones in our office. Either way, 'home of Irish football' is meaningless. There isn't one, but it's a useful ploy for Bohs to try and get an extra few quid in funding.

Dragging this back on topic, no word on the options appraisal that the council are carrying out on the Brandywell pitch, but some interesting figures on it.
The plastic pitch is bringing in £80k per annum, the grass one brought in £11k.
The pitch is due its next FIFA cert inspection in July.
The pitch has a 10 year warranty, based on 50 hours usage per week. Usage is currently 35-40 hours. The pitch was scheduled for replacement after eight years though (2026). A grass pitch can be used six hours per week.
A full rebuild of the grass pitch would take 6-12 months to bed in, would cost £600-800k. Another plastic pitch would be over £1m, a hybrid pitch (Lansdowne and Windsor have these, maybe Croke as well?) would cost about the same.

Whatever option is picked, it'll involve moving out tenants. Institute may be getting relegated this season, so maybe makes it easier to move them to another ground in the town for a while? Derry would have the option of Maginn Park again, but there would be very little appetite for that, and you'd be cancelling about 2/3s of STs.

[John83]

Shouldn't you be posting on (ahem) a Gaelic football forum?
Is that supposed to be some sort of sectarian taunt? Those aren't welcome here.


Anyhow, being "Irish" is absolutely nothing to do with "Ethnicity", as I'm sure eg Leo Varadkar, Paul McGrath or Phil Lynott would agree.
It would seem you have no idea what ethnicity means. There are dictionaries online, if you have the wit to use one. Thinking that those three aren't ethnically Irish makes you a racist, by the way. At best.


And I'm Irish because I was brought up in Ireland, as were all my parents, grandparents and great grandparents (and who knows how many generations further back?), from places as far apart as Antrim, Fermanagh, Leitrim and Tipperary.
Good for you.


Anyhow Mr. Biden, Air Force One is waiting on the tarmac and you're needed elsewhere.... :rolleyes:
Purple monkey dishwasher to you too.

[EatYerGreens]

8,000 would also be a bit of a slap in the jaw for 'The Home of Irish Football'.

https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/meme-well-that-escalated-quickly.jpg

[pineapple stu]

The team does not represent the State
Yes it does - it was explicitly admitted to FIFA on the basis that it organised football in the 26 counties. That's the country we call Ireland.


No, the state whose capital city is Dublin calls itself Ireland and if that's what you prefer, go ahead. I could call myself King of Ireland, though it wouldn't make me so.
**** me, this is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever, ever seen. Are you saying that the State is wrong in the name it calls itself?! Despite it being literally in the Constitution? And despite Republic of Ireland being a term that has pretty much no legal standing other than as a descriptor term?

If that's so, then Ignore List gets activated and I'm out.