View Full Version : Stadium Updates (All Clubs)
ThePrisoner
04/02/2016, 2:17 PM
He is just trying to get as much money as he can.
Throw in the issue that he built the YDC partially on land without permission, so i doubt he will want to be going to court!
Agree with your first point. He has clearly said that he wants money. Whether he's legally entitled to anything, I don't know.
I don't know anything about the planning process other than it's complex and costly.
If I'm correct Dundalk are at home tomorrow 4 weeks. I don't know the deadline for the licence but the situation will have to be sorted before then. There may only be a 2 or 3 week window.
As I said, if he holds the lease and is honouring his end with the owner of OP then he is in a strong position.
Has anyone seen the lease and its conditions? Would there be any situation or circumstances whereby the lease could be terminated?
It’s probably worth considering that the exact same issue was in place for the last 3 years when DFC were awarded a PD licence. This being, the current owners were in effect sub leasing the ground from Matthews who held (and still holds the ownership of the lease), with the actual ownership of the ground being retained in trust by Des Casey family in a long term deal to the Football Club. This deal also prevents the ground from being used by anything else other than football.
Nothing has changed this year, and the 3 main parties are as you were, however the owner of the lease has put in an objection it would seem to the FAI in a clear move to demand a payment. The issue over the lease will still need to be resolved long term, as it is this very thing that is preventing the club applying for capital sports grants and FAI assistance for the much needed ground redevelopments.
I don’t see Matthews handing it over the lease for nothing, so a payment will probably need to be agreed at some point. As for the YDC, that’s a whole separate issue which he is trying to attach to the terms of the lease. I don’t think his objection will prevent Dundalk from playing in Oriel Park in 2016, however this obviously won’t just go away, and all parties need to get around a table and soon and sort it out for once and for all.
I think we can expect some sort of comment from DFC on this in the next few days.
Charlie Darwin
04/02/2016, 3:00 PM
Gerry Matthews might just be the hero this league has been waiting for.
One thing that has changed is that Dundalk's success and future Champion's League games means they are flush by LOI standards, so it makes sense for Matthews to make his move.
Although the same would have applied last year too, perhaps he's under more pressure now though.
As noted above there are always risks to private ownership models. But then the co-op was a disaster in Dundalk so even if they have to shell out now they'll feel well ahead.
ThePrisoner
04/02/2016, 3:21 PM
If GM holds the lease what's to stop him from locking the club out? Would not be the first landlord to do something like this.
As its money he's after, and he says it is, now is the best time to strike. Success on the field = money and the season starts in four weeks.
White Horse
04/02/2016, 3:24 PM
If GM holds the lease what's to stop him from locking the club out?
It wouldn't do his other businesses in the town any good. He would have a lot of former customers.
Charlie Darwin
04/02/2016, 3:27 PM
As long-term tenants Dundalk would have certain rights as well.
ThePrisoner
04/02/2016, 3:32 PM
It wouldn't do his other businesses in the town any good. He would have a lot of former customers.
Some people can be very difficult to deal with and don't care what other people think of them.
It wouldn't do his other businesses in the town any good. He would have a lot of former customers.
Anyone with a head for good business decisions does not end up owed a quarter of a million euro by an LOI club.
jinxy lilywhite
04/02/2016, 3:35 PM
If GM holds the lease what's to stop him from locking the club out? Would not be the first landlord to do something like this.
As its money he's after, and he says it is, now is the best time to strike. Success on the field = money and the season starts in four weeks.
The primary function of the lease is for football to be played in oriel park. Even as sublettors per se the rent is being payed by the club as nominal as it is.
I don't think dfc can be locked out. Also GM would be in contravention of the lease.
The IT article only gives his side of the story. I don't know if the club will make a statement but probably been advised not too.
To me it doesn't seem as simple as give me 100k or 250k and I will be off. I think there is more to this than meets the eye and Matthews is trying to hoodwink the public.
ThePrisoner
04/02/2016, 3:41 PM
As long-term tenants Dundalk would have certain rights as well.
That's one for the legal boys and girls.
The current company that runs the club is separate from the company that GM used to run the company. So you're into the old argument of separate legal entities. Throw in the legal concept of 'transfer of undertaking', was there or was there not? Have a look at the agreement that was put in place to take over the club and put it into the new company. Then add in that in order for the owners of the new company to get a licence the creditors of the old company have to be sorted out. The club have had a least three owners in the last ten years so how was it rolled from one owner to another?
To say they have rights may well be true but they may also have obligations arising from those rights.
Will be interesting to see who blinks first.
Nesta99
04/02/2016, 3:55 PM
Anyone with a head for good business decisions does not end up owed a quarter of a million euro by an LOI club.
Well he did flog a piece of land for €60k that cost him €800k!
Charlie Darwin
04/02/2016, 4:18 PM
Club statement: http://www.dundalkfc.com/statement-2/
Nesta99
04/02/2016, 4:24 PM
That's one for the legal boys and girls.
The current company that runs the club is separate from the company that GM used to run the company. So you're into the old argument of separate legal entities. Throw in the legal concept of 'transfer of undertaking', was there or was there not? Have a look at the agreement that was put in place to take over the club and put it into the new company. Then add in that in order for the owners of the new company to get a licence the creditors of the old company have to be sorted out. The club have had a least three owners in the last ten years so how was it rolled from one owner to another?
To say they have rights may well be true but they may also have obligations arising from those rights.
Will be interesting to see who blinks first.
If 100k for the lease or the 250k with the YDC also was the cheapest and easiest way out for the club i'm sure it would be taken. If it isnt paid they must have been told by their legal team not to bother. Also if the YDC is thrown in for 250k then Dundalk FC become owners of 400k debt to Louth County Council on top. There was likely to be a method to the madness of building the YDC on the wrong spot infringing on Casey Trust land but may have backfired. GM was very clear during his tenure that the club should have bought the ground outright and made attempts to do so, with good reason the Caseys refused. Access to the YDC is an issue and could prevent future development of the Carrick end or even temporary seating for that matter. To consolidate the YDC and Oriel is what GM is really angling for, a few quid, no further issues with Des Casey, and also has him off the hook of the council debt but at 650k debt to the club. The council wont play ball on the levy for GM but that has to do with other stuff and maybe a bit that the planning office etc has no shortage of Dundalk fc supporters...
When GM bought Hiney Park and then the club there were a few people who questioned his true motives. Dundalk Town Council said at the time that they would not rezone any of the land in question for housing. I dont know how or why a builder would spend 800k on a few acres of a football field that was not going to be rezoned for development but there ye go - maybe there was a belief that strang arm tactics would win out there but instead a local secondary school got a bargain to add to the playing fields in the same area and someone else lost out on over 700k (the reserve on Hiney Park was 45k when put up for sale by GM/Bank).
Nesta99
04/02/2016, 4:55 PM
Club statement: http://www.dundalkfc.com/statement-2/
Why would anybody be bothered with Eastenders or the like when there is League of Ireland!
I'd love to see the uncensored version of the statement lol
passinginterest
05/02/2016, 9:34 AM
Dalymount plans unveiled. All sounds good until the bit about there being no funds to even proceed to the actual planning application stage. http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/dublin-city-council-unveil-plan-for-redeveloped-dalymount-1.2523069
“Obviously, it’s a project that could be done in phases,” says DCC assistant chief executive Brendan Kenny, “and that’s something we have looked at. We have done a feasibility plan and other work but we haven’t got the funding at this point in time. If that became available we could go straight to planning.”
Although it's mentioned that it's possible initial funding will be approved by Dept. of Arts, Sport and Tourism before the election.
eitoof
05/02/2016, 2:07 PM
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/21919.php#.Vp_RczYopYl
Rugby returning to Markets Field.
Going to be interesting to find out what the implications will be for Limerick FC. As it stands the club maintain the pitch. The costs involved, cutting the grass, lining the pitch etc... If Rugby will be played on the surface then who is responsible to getting it to standard for football.
Is there not enough f***ing rugby pitches in Limerick already?:mad:
Lim till i die
05/02/2016, 4:13 PM
Is there not enough f***ing rugby pitches in Limerick already?:mad:
Well those poor misfortunes in Garryowen RFC will need a place to play soon while they lay an all weather in Dooradoyle and they are very lucky to have some very lovely friends in the LEDP.
Watch this space.
jbyrne
05/02/2016, 4:25 PM
Is there not enough f***ing rugby pitches in Limerick already?:mad:
didn't limerick fc use a rugby pitch while markets field was being built?
works both ways
nigel-harps1954
05/02/2016, 4:44 PM
didn't limerick fc use a rugby pitch while markets field was being built?
works both ways
Pretty sure they used Jackman Park...a football pitch.
They played on Thomond as well.
Nesta99
05/02/2016, 9:24 PM
Pretty sure they used Jackman Park...a football pitch.
Just how much is missed when in the 1st Division?
nigel-harps1954
05/02/2016, 11:45 PM
You're no craic at all.
Charlie Darwin
06/02/2016, 3:43 AM
Does anyone know which stadium is the most expensive so far?
Tallaght I assume, especially if you include all the money wasted by the previous Rovers board and the legal challenges.
SDCC put the final cost at €11.2 million, although this doesn't specify what they included: http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=939&pid=16099
SalvadorSanchez
06/02/2016, 7:49 AM
So Dalymount is being done in phases... code for "we'll see how it goes and we can back out half way through if we want" I worry about this plan. Massive 4,500 seater main stand and 10,000 capacity and phased construction. Too ambitious and too many caveats on other things happening.. I'll believe it when I see it... Good luck to Bohs, seems they're going to have job filling that ground or even half filling it... hope I'm wrong...
fionnsci
06/02/2016, 2:34 PM
A 4,500 main stand is a bit mad. Can't be good for atmosphere or image to have one half empty stand in use 90% of the time. Feels like a missed opportunity to get it right, notwithstanding the fact that it's certainly a very positive development on the whole.
Not sure how Shels are eventually gonna fit into this. It's hard enough to get communities to support one local team, let alone two. I've been thinking about Rovers' success in Tallaght, would there be any merit in Shels jumping ship to Swords? Huge population growth, space to develop, a metro (maybe) linking it to the city down the line. Hypothetical obviously given the money it would cost. Also, I'm sure the fans would have serious issues with their club being moved. Still though, I think it'd be good for LOI football in Dublin.
nigel-harps1954
06/02/2016, 3:42 PM
http://www.donegalsporthub.com/14766-2/
Capacity of Finn Park increased by 600 for the new season.
ForzaHoop
08/02/2016, 11:22 AM
Should be an interesting meeting tomorrow with Harps supporters over stadium development news etc
SalvadorSanchez
08/02/2016, 1:40 PM
A 4,500 main stand is a bit mad. Can't be good for atmosphere or image to have one half empty stand in use 90% of the time. Feels like a missed opportunity to get it right, notwithstanding the fact that it's certainly a very positive development on the whole.
Not sure how Shels are eventually gonna fit into this. It's hard enough to get communities to support one local team, let alone two. I've been thinking about Rovers' success in Tallaght, would there be any merit in Shels jumping ship to Swords? Huge population growth, space to develop, a metro (maybe) linking it to the city down the line. Hypothetical obviously given the money it would cost. Also, I'm sure the fans would have serious issues with their club being moved. Still though, I think it'd be good for LOI football in Dublin.
Bohs are averaging about 1,900 per game... hitting maybe 3,000 for big games... if they apply for planning for 10,000 and there's objections then the excessive scale could be one excuse to scupper this project...(see Casement Park.. Granted it's NI but the same principles apply in planning... i.e. the principle of Need vs Want) http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/14143/2015-league-of-ireland-attendances---the-story-so-far/
I don't see why 6,000 or 7,000 wouldn't be enough and still have enough capacity for European games / derby games / friendlies etc.. I can't see why we 5000 seats plus terracing for 2,000 wouldn't be enough for any LOI club... (Terracing can be converted for all seater games if necessary... not that stupid expensive rail seating)
I really like the idea of redeveloping this grand old ground and I think it deserves to be redeveloped and Bohs given a proper home for 50-60 years..but if you read what's out in the media all they're committing to is a pitch and a single big stand and everything else is on the long finger it seems.... correct me if I'm wrong but don't Bohs already have an adequate pitch and a big stand already? If DCC and the FAI are serious about this then they should progress this as a single project with all stands being built at the same time.. I think this whole "Phased" approach is a bit dodgy..
If you put Shels in the arrangement as well... how's it going to be for atmosphere is there's less than 1,000 people in a 10,000 all seater? Better leave Shels in Tolka and give them €2-3 million to fix the place up.. and knock some of the worst parts..
If I was a Bohs fan I'd be quite worried by all the uncertainty in this idea...
White Horse
08/02/2016, 2:07 PM
correct me if I'm wrong but don't Bohs already have an adequate pitch and a big stand already?
That is a very good point.
Bohs are averaging about 1,900 per game... hitting maybe 3,000 for big games... if they apply for planning for 10,000
They aren't applying. Dublin City Council are applying to, well, Dublin City Council.
I don't see why 6,000 or 7,000 wouldn't be enough and still have enough capacity for European games / derby games / friendlies etc.. I can't see why we 5000 seats plus terracing for 2,000 wouldn't be enough for any LOI club...
It's not really about what a LOI club wants. It's about what DCC wants. And yes they are different
DCC want to develop a stadium that they can use for multiple events, not just football. So they're never going to cater for Bohs wants and needs.
(and Bohs will be fairly happy to see it develop at a slow pace as long as they're playing there and have enough room for themselves to grow )
nigel-harps1954
10/02/2016, 12:10 PM
Work underway at Finn Park to meet licensing requirements for Premier Division.
Floodlights need an upgrade, dressing rooms and showers being upgraded, a new medical room and control room going in and seating is to get derogation due to work recommencing on new stadium in a few weeks.
Brilliant news but when I hear things like 'Floodlights need an upgrade, dressing rooms and showers being upgraded, a new medical room and control room going in' I always think 'Shouldn't that all have been done ages ago' and 'Will there be enough time'!!
Looking forward to going there to see Harps v Pat's
nigel-harps1954
10/02/2016, 2:21 PM
Brilliant news but when I hear things like 'Floodlights need an upgrade, dressing rooms and showers being upgraded, a new medical room and control room going in' I always think 'Shouldn't that all have been done ages ago' and 'Will there be enough time'!!
Looking forward to going there to see Harps v Pat's
Some of it has been in progress for the last while and will easily be ready in time. Things like floodlights is one of those things that you wouldn't expect to be told needing upgraded when we're building a new stadium.
All of this was okay in the First Division.
Olander
10/02/2016, 2:33 PM
Some of it has been in progress for the last while and will easily be ready in time. Things like floodlights is one of those things that you wouldn't expect to be told needing upgraded when we're building a new stadium.
All of this was okay in the First Division.
TBH, there are a few clubs in the Premier Division who should be told to upgrade their floodlights also. Us included. The floodlights in Terryland are very poor.
ForzaHoop
10/02/2016, 2:37 PM
Any news on progress with new Harps stadium over the bridge or did they skip over this at the meeting
nigel-harps1954
10/02/2016, 2:45 PM
Any news on progress with new Harps stadium over the bridge or did they skip over this at the meeting
Not a huge amount on it. There's constant meetings between the FAI, government and Stadium Committee to discuss what's going on. Club confident funds will be released soon though and builder is ready to start once funds are released. Hope to be started in the next few weeks again.
Longfordian
10/02/2016, 6:27 PM
TBH, there are a few clubs in the Premier Division who should be told to upgrade their floodlights also. Us included. The floodlights in Terryland are very poor.
The club are aware that ours need upgrading but they can't afford to do it without grant aid.
Town Legend
10/02/2016, 7:11 PM
Only half the bulbs are working in the scoreboard corner. It was very dark in that corner for the game against Limerick.
Longfordian
10/02/2016, 7:21 PM
Yeah there's a constant issue with bulbs blowing. They're expensive to buy and you have to hire a cherry picker in order to put them in. The entire system is just outdated at this stage.
TBH, there are a few clubs in the Premier Division who should be told to upgrade their floodlights also. Us included. The floodlights in Terryland are very poor.
floodlights at EDP were changed and upgraded in 2010/11 from 500 lux to 800lux which is what is needed for live TV
outspoken
10/02/2016, 11:18 PM
The club are aware that ours need upgrading but they can't afford to do it without grant aid.
Well no better time to start ringing up every politician in Longford/Westmeath and asking for a favour. We never seen to get any grants, are they being applied for at all or are we just being totally ignored is what you'd have to wonder.
Longfordian
11/02/2016, 7:25 AM
There have been applications (I'm not sure for what or how much we looked for) and we've been "promised" funding a few times but it hasn't materialised as yet. Maybe as things start to improve economically we might have more chance but Longford as a county isn't important politically.
outspoken
11/02/2016, 8:20 AM
There have been applications (I'm not sure for what or how much we looked for) and we've been "promised" funding a few times but it hasn't materialised as yet. Maybe as things start to improve economically we might have more chance but Longford as a county isn't important politically.
Well nows the time to start jumping on the campaign bandwagon with so many of them claiming they want to 'fight for Longford'
Pats received a grant about a year ago for floodlight upgrades but they're bogged down in internal Department of Sport stuff. Takes a while for the announced money to be released
I've heard about GAA clubs who got grants and club officers took out a mortgage to get the work done quicker. Several years they are still paying the mortgage as the grant is still tied up in red tape. Some of the stuff that goes on is outrageous. One awkward official can bog everything down completely.
Nesta99
11/02/2016, 9:35 AM
True it can take an age but the most common delay in grants being drawn down is the 20% of the grant that the grantee must raise. I doubt the sort of money for floodlighting upgrades is too prohibitive but is is a right pain when the grant is in the hundreds ok thousands.
On Harps new ground in Stranroler. I was looking for a post here but gave up. It explained some of the stuff with the builder and the funding of the new ground through the land swap of Finn Park. It was said that the funding was in place but there was issues with the builder. Additional grants are being sought to finish the new place which mut be recieved before the builder comences on the site!? So would imply funding isnt in place. Now if the builder erred in agreeing to a new ground for Finn Park while the land was at a premium but a property bubble subsequently bursts, isnt it his tough luck and should still honour the deal made at the time. Why the year on year delays unless said builder is a bit fooked financially themself. Think it was Nigel that explained it before??
fionnsci
11/02/2016, 9:44 AM
Pats received a grant about a year ago for floodlight upgrades but they're bogged down in internal Department of Sport stuff. Takes a while for the announced money to be released
Any chance the floodrights are to be replaced with ones less intrusive to the view? Four in the corner would be a huge change. Or more strategically placed ones if there have to be 8.
nigel-harps1954
11/02/2016, 9:46 AM
The problem with the builder was that they were in limbo. They were committed to other projects at the same time as the new stadium. A bit of a tug-of-war if you like. But when there's nothing there to work with, you can't work.
The grant money is all allocated. Drawing it down is another problem though. There's nothing in there about new grant applications or additional grants being sought.
Finn Park is part of the deal, but the builder doesn't get Finn Park until the new stadium is finished.
Nesta99
11/02/2016, 10:18 AM
Ok! But for how many years is there a builder over subscribed. Often they will pay what is needed to draw down the grants so that they can get the money to pay themselves and get going. If all the grant money is there then it is a lucrative build, and when finished Finn Park gets thrown in on top. Seems a bit odd with priorities off a bit. How much is the total project 5-6million. Grants expire too if not drawn down. One of the reason of Dundalks sale of Hiney Park was to raise the money to draw down the grant that was due to expire.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.