Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

[DCWA]

If there's an estimate of about 30-40% of betting in Ireland done on football, then 30-40% of the betting levy should go to football.

There are so many flaws in this trail of thought that I struggle for where to begin. This is dreamland stuff, and I mean Donald Trump stumping up 100 mil a year and us having the Trump League of Ireland dreamland kinda stuff.

Horse and Greyhound racing literally exist for gambling. That is why they will get some of the dividends from it. They would not exist at least in anything resembling their current form if it wasn’t for betting and likewise most betting firms we know of today would not exist if if wasn’t for racing.

Association football and bookmaking never had and never will have this type of shared existence, a bond build on a reliance of each other to survive.

Now I am not going to go much into the %s of betting done in Ireland by sport/event etc but needless to say the figures for betting on the Irish Domestic game are miniscule. There will be one man in China using obscure Macau based betting firms to bet more on one Irish game than this entire island would bet on a whole Friday evenings League of Ireland programme. We would have as much chance getting funding from Macau.

Finally, most betting firms (with the exception of a few, Powers/Hills/365) are itching to get further away from all forms of sports betting and drag the whole thing toward casino and games betting (or FOBT’s if in store)

This idea of getting money from betting for the League of Ireland is really pie in the sky stuff.

[John83]

Is it a sustainable set up though ? Shamrock Rovers are only one part of the business rationale for Tallaght Stadium. What other sporting fixtures, entertainment events, conferences etc would be attracted to a stadium in Ballybofey, for example, to make a substantial council investment there pay for itself every year ? Because that's what's driven the expansion of Tallaght - if not from day one, then at least beyond it consisting solely of a single stand.
What part of "identify as many potential situations like that as possible" screams Ballybofey to you?

[EatYerGreens]

What part of "identify as many potential situations like that as possible" screams Ballybofey to you?

Because Ballybofey would be the norm in this, not the exception.

How many places would genuinely be able to justify a council-run Tallaght-esque facility without it becoming a white elephant ? I'm really not sure even somewhere like Cork could. There are so many other places there to attract large events, conferences etc as it is. And on the very rare occasion that Real Madrid did want to fulfil a money-raising game in Cork, I'm sure the GAA could be persuaded to open their facilities again now that the hoodoo was broken by the Lia Miller saga. And even if they couldn't - you can't build a new publicly-owned multi-purpose venue on the hope that a Real Madrid might want to use it once a generation.

We can disagree about Cork if you like, but let's look at the rest of the league. Tallaght Stadium means that it's unlikely anywhere else in Greater Dublin south of the river could justify a similar facility. So that rules out UCD, Cabinteely, Pats and Bray. The redeveloped Dalymount will be the equivalent for north Dublin, covering Bohs and Shels. Beyond that there could be a weak argument made about places like Drogheda, Dundalk or Waterford, but I just don't think they have the populations to attract enough usage to make it viable. And absolutely zero chance for the likes of Longford, Harps, Sligo, Wexford, Cobh and Athlone. They just don't have the populations.

The one possible exception could be Galway. But again - it's a small city with other options also competing for the limited amount of events they could attract.

So where else realistically could we see a Tallaght-type situation where a council views a stadium with an LOI anchor tenant as a useful asset for it to attract lots of other events to the area without it being a drain on its own resources ? Even a smaller version of Tallaght still wouldn't help much IMO, as you'd still have a base level of running costs. I'm not convinced that a 25% smaller venue would knock 25% off of the annual operating costs, for example. And that would affect its commercial viability for other events too.

[John83]

Because Ballybofey would be the norm in this, not the exception.

How many places would genuinely be able to justify a council-run Tallaght-esque facility without it becoming a white elephant ? I'm really not sure even somewhere like Cork could. There are so many other places there to attract large events, conferences etc as it is.
I've attended an academic conference in Páirc Uí Chaoimh; very nice facility. I bet it cost a few quid to rent, too. Not everything has to be about Real Madrid.

You can argue about competition, but the fact is that the GAA have that facility and an LoI club does not. We're playing catch-up because the FAI is ****e at infrastructural investment and attracting government money.

[redobit]

Is it a sustainable set up though ? Shamrock Rovers are only one part of the business rationale for Tallaght Stadium. What other sporting fixtures, entertainment events, conferences etc would be attracted to a stadium in Ballybofey, for example, to make a substantial council investment there pay for itself every year ? Because that's what's driven the expansion of Tallaght - if not from day one, then at least beyond it consisting solely of a single stand.

Im sorry but that's such BS. Loads of infrastructure is built in the country that isint 'sustainable' … roads and bridges for example. Or look at Iarnrod Eireann and Bus Eireann, they loose money but they are infrastructure that is required for the community and for a region to grow and to promote itself.
Said it before, look at the North West or even draw a line from Dublin to Galway - there is no motorways or any decent rail system above that line. Its forgotten country, always has been.
We pay our taxes too and have a right to good infrastrucre the same as everybody else. And look, nobody is looking for the Tallaght stadium in Ballybofey or the Luas in Sligo just something fit for purpose. How is a county or area supposed to grow their economy or society when they infrastructure is from the 1980s.

[Martinho II]

Is your whole ground in use? I thought there was a safety issue on one side?

There was but its sorted out now Bucket as we have started putting in seats in behind the goal again which was originally closed and poured in concrete where there was a health hazard before. The last few games of last season that work was complete!

[Bucket]

EatYerGreens I think people are suggesting raising the tax from 1% to 2%. So racing and dogs keep receiving the same amount with the rest used for infrastructure for other sports

[EatYerGreens]

EatYerGreens I think people are suggesting raising the tax from 1% to 2%. So racing and dogs keep receiving the same amount with the rest used for infrastructure for other sports

That may cover the capital costs of building a stadium. But that's not the thing that causes problems for local authorities. They can always borrow money for capital projects after all, but they can't for running costs (revenue projects). If a council-owned facility doesn't pay for itself then it has to be budgeted for year after year after year - in good times and in bad. And that leave sit open to political change, voter fatigue etc.

Gambling taxes are unlikely to be used to cover the annual running costs of individual stadia either, as that just encourages white elephants and puts the future of such facilities at the mercy of policy and tax vagaries.

There's no point someone giving you a lovely big house if you can't afford the upkeep of it and there aren't enough people interested in renting a room off you there.

[EatYerGreens]

Im sorry but that's such BS. Loads of infrastructure is built in the country that isint 'sustainable' … roads and bridges for example. Or look at Iarnrod Eireann and Bus Eireann, they loose money but they are infrastructure that is required for the community and for a region to grow and to promote itself.
Said it before, look at the North West or even draw a line from Dublin to Galway - there is no motorways or any decent rail system above that line. Its forgotten country, always has been.
We pay our taxes too and have a right to good infrastrucre the same as everybody else. And look, nobody is looking for the Tallaght stadium in Ballybofey or the Luas in Sligo just something fit for purpose. How is a county or area supposed to grow their economy or society when they infrastructure is from the 1980s.

You're not understanding the difference between capital costs (the money needed upfront to create something - which can legally be borrowed against) and running costs (the money needed each and every year to keep it going - which can't legally be borrowed against). Motorways are very expensive to install, but have a relatively low revenue cost impact. The issue with Bus Eireann and Ianrod Eireann are the revenue costs every year, as their income receipts don't cover the cost of running their networks. Regardless - the state picks up the shortfall as public transport is deemed a public necessity and a social good. And rightly so. Good luck making a similar argument to government for a League of Ireland stadium in Wexford, for example.

[Bucket]

That may cover the capital costs of building a stadium. But that's not the thing that causes problems for local authorities. They can always borrow money for capital projects after all, but they can't for running costs (revenue projects). If a council-owned facility doesn't pay for itself then it has to be budgeted for year after year after year - in good times and in bad. And that leave sit open to political change, voter fatigue etc.

Gambling taxes are unlikely to be used to cover the annual running costs of individual stadia either, as that just encourages white elephants and puts the future of such facilities at the mercy of policy and tax vagaries.

There's no point someone giving you a lovely big house if you can't afford the upkeep of it and there aren't enough people interested in renting a room off you there.

Sorry, but I must of stopped following the conversation adequately. I'm just saying the tax should be doubled, dogs and horses continue to get their current grants, the rest goes to sports infrastructure. Whether or not cocos are involved is of no interest to me.
No reason really why that money should go to a council to build something, for a LOI club to then lease, instead of going directly to a club to build themselves

[Nesta99]

Because Ballybofey would be the norm in this, not the exception.

How many places would genuinely be able to justify a council-run Tallaght-esque facility without it becoming a white elephant ? I'm really not sure even somewhere like Cork could. There are so many other places there to attract large events, conferences etc as it is. And on the very rare occasion that Real Madrid did want to fulfil a money-raising game in Cork, I'm sure the GAA could be persuaded to open their facilities again now that the hoodoo was broken by the Lia Miller saga. And even if they couldn't - you can't build a new publicly-owned multi-purpose venue on the hope that a Real Madrid might want to use it once a generation.

We can disagree about Cork if you like, but let's look at the rest of the league. Tallaght Stadium means that it's unlikely anywhere else in Greater Dublin south of the river could justify a similar facility. So that rules out UCD, Cabinteely, Pats and Bray. The redeveloped Dalymount will be the equivalent for north Dublin, covering Bohs and Shels. Beyond that there could be a weak argument made about places like Drogheda, Dundalk or Waterford, but I just don't think they have the populations to attract enough usage to make it viable. And absolutely zero chance for the likes of Longford, Harps, Sligo, Wexford, Cobh and Athlone. They just don't have the populations.

The one possible exception could be Galway. But again - it's a small city with other options also competing for the limited amount of events they could attract.

So where else realistically could we see a Tallaght-type situation where a council views a stadium with an LOI anchor tenant as a useful asset for it to attract lots of other events to the area without it being a drain on its own resources ? Even a smaller version of Tallaght still wouldn't help much IMO, as you'd still have a base level of running costs. I'm not convinced that a 25% smaller venue would knock 25% off of the annual operating costs, for example. And that would affect its commercial viability for other events too.

Isnt the Brandywell council owned? is it a burden on the council? certainly redevelopment was publicly funded. I dont see too much being said in replicating Tallaght or scaled down versions but there is a role for councils to play in some circumstances. Tallaght was an intervention by SDCC on a failed project that was subsequently made to work for them. There are international models that could be considered too. I do think an opportunity was missed by LCC to create a self-sustaining facility with broad community benefits, shared capital and running costs etc. But with a bespoke design suitable to local needs.

[Bucket]

There was but its sorted out now Bucket as we have started putting in seats in behind the goal again which was originally closed and poured in concrete where there was a health hazard before. The last few games of last season that work was complete!

The Flan Siro looked well this evening on the excellent YouTube stream for the friendly against Utd. Looks like there's construction work going on behind the goal opposite the carpark end. The pitch was very bobbly though

[Charlie Darwin]

Association football and bookmaking never had and never will have this type of shared existence, a bond build on a reliance of each other to survive.

Now I am not going to go much into the %s of betting done in Ireland by sport/event etc but needless to say the figures for betting on the Irish Domestic game are miniscule. There will be one man in China using obscure Macau based betting firms to bet more on one Irish game than this entire island would bet on a whole Friday evenings League of Ireland programme. We would have as much chance getting funding from Macau.

Finally, most betting firms (with the exception of a few, Powers/Hills/365) are itching to get further away from all forms of sports betting and drag the whole thing toward casino and games betting (or FOBT’s if in store)

This idea of getting money from betting for the League of Ireland is really pie in the sky stuff.
First of all, I don't see the relevance of LOI betting on whether football should get a cut of the gambling tax. Horse and dog racing get 100% of the tax from football bets as it is, and you could argue that horse racing is even further away from the Premier League than the League of Ireland.

Second, betting firms aren't itching to get away from sports betting. It's their cash cow. They're looking to diversify so they don't lose customers when, for instance, sport isn't happening.

[bohsmug]

The Flan Siro looked well this evening on the excellent YouTube stream for the friendly against Utd. Looks like there's construction work going on behind the goal opposite the carpark end. The pitch was very bobbly though

Looks like they're building a little house down there :D

Anyone any idea what it's for? A club office or media facilities maybe?

[EatYerGreens]

Isnt the Brandywell council owned? is it a burden on the council? certainly redevelopment was publicly funded. I dont see too much being said in replicating Tallaght or scaled down versions but there is a role for councils to play in some circumstances. Tallaght was an intervention by SDCC on a failed project that was subsequently made to work for them. There are international models that could be considered too. I do think an opportunity was missed by LCC to create a self-sustaining facility with broad community benefits, shared capital and running costs etc. But with a bespoke design suitable to local needs.

There's no genuine comparison between the Brandywell and Tallaght Stadium in this regard. Tallaght was a bespoke stadium designed and built from scratch to house Rovers as an anchor tenant, and with the hope of attracting other events into the area as well (which it has had some success in doing). The Brandywell has been a stadium for much longer that Derry City has existed, and hosted all sorts of things in that time. It was a burden for the council up until it was partly refurbished recently, which is why half the stadium sat unused there for 5-10 years, and the only side that was opened had big wooden props all along the back of it to stop a boundary wall falling down. So it has been a burden to the council in the very recent past, who didn't have the funds or will to get it into a decent shape.

Now it's been partly refurbished Brandywell is entirely used for football and greyhound racing, and hosts a lot of junior/intermediate football in the city. It can't and won't be used in anything like the way Tallaght stadium is or will be for events. And that's not what the council in Derry intended it to be used for either. Plus Brandywell is less than a third of the size of where Tallaght will be after the 4th stand is built. Derry City also rent it for a very low sum that doesn't reflect anything like a commercial rent btw.

So the only valid comparison between the facilities is they're both council owned and contain a football team. Beyond that they were intended and designed for different levels of usage/ambition, and are very different sizes.

[Bucket]

Hopefully a bar for away fans

[Nesta99]

There's no genuine comparison between the Brandywell and Tallaght Stadium in this regard. Tallaght was a bespoke stadium designed and built from scratch to house Rovers as an anchor tenant, and with the hope of attracting other events into the area as well (which it has had some success in doing). The Brandywell has been a stadium for much longer that Derry City has existed, and hosted all sorts of things in that time. It was a burden for the council up until it was partly refurbished recently, which is why half the stadium sat unused there for 5-10 years, and the only side that was opened had big wooden props all along the back of it to stop a boundary wall falling down. So it has been a burden to the council in the very recent past, who didn't have the funds or will to get it into a decent shape.

Now it's been partly refurbished Brandywell is entirely used for football and greyhound racing, and hosts a lot of junior/intermediate football in the city. It can't and won't be used in anything like the way Tallaght stadium is or will be for events. And that's not what the council in Derry intended it to be used for either. Plus Brandywell is less than a third of the size of where Tallaght will be after the 4th stand is built. Derry City also rent it for a very low sum that doesn't reflect anything like a commercial rent btw.

So the only valid comparison between the facilities is they're both council owned and contain a football team. Beyond that they were intended and designed for different levels of usage/ambition, and are very different sizes.

So horses for courses!

[EalingGreen]

Isnt the Brandywell council owned? is it a burden on the council? certainly redevelopment was publicly funded.
The Council took over rersponsibility for the stadium around the foundation of the club in 1929 - it had previously been owned/run by the Honourable The Irish Society (a City of London Corporation who, amongst other things, had previously built the Guildhall).

Afaik the stadium was included in a large sale of assets to the Council by the Society, with the latter making a stipulation that it may only be used for recreational purposes (hence the football and greyhounds etc)

As regards the 2016/17 redevelopment, this was jointly funded by the Council and Stormont to the tune of around £10m. I don't know what the split was, but I suspect the majority was due to come from Stormont.

This is because in 2015,with the National Stadium rebuild at Windsor under way, Stormont announced a Sub-Regional Stadium programme to spend a further £36m on upgrading smaller football stadia in NI.

The biggest chunk of this, £10m, was to go to Glentoran, to develop a mid-sized stadium, with around the same to Derry City - basically money-sharing to reflect power-sharing, it being entirely coincidental that the two stadia are/were in the constituencies of Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness ;)

Anyhow, Stormont buggered around (technical term) in putting these plans into action, before its suspension put a complete halt to this and myriad other projects - it still hasn't been started, never mind completed, nearly six years later. :(

I suspect the Council may have stumped up the funding for the Brandywell, in anticipation of getting some or all reimbursed some day from Stormont, but that's only my guess - I'm entirely open to correction.

More here, though no mention of Derry, possibly because they've already gone ahead?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51194824

Anyhow, on a wider note, if Stormont ever did get its act together and spend this money on IL clubs etc, perhaps that might prompt/shame the Irish government into doing something similar for the LOI? (Speculation)

[DCWA]

Only one phase of the Brandywell redevelopment has been completed, we were promised by Martin McGuinness and the Executive that funding to complete the work was guaranteed (see https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-38158441 )

That has went without further mention in recent years and I firmly suspect the Brandywell will now remain untouched for years, in all likelihood until it again falls into a state of disrepair.

The half stand we have should not be as such. That original intent (or so we were all told) was for that to be completed.

[Charlie Darwin]

Anyhow, on a wider note, if Stormont ever did get its act together and spend this money on IL clubs etc, perhaps that might prompt/shame the Irish government into doing something similar for the LOI? (Speculation)
Are you suggesting the Irish government is capable of feeling shame?

[punkrocket]

What was supposed to happen in phase 2 of The Brandywell redevelopment? I can't find any plans anywhere.

[EatYerGreens]

What was supposed to happen in phase 2 of The Brandywell redevelopment? I can't find any plans anywhere.

That big new stand on one side of the ground is so small because they only built the middle section of it. It's supposed to have the same size again added on each side to complete it, with corporate boxes etc at the top. And proper toilets underneath, as all they have there at the moment are temporary ones inside container units.

It would look great once completed, but the LOI has a habit of stadium plans never getting to their final stage. It's also rumoured that the foundations for the 2 wings on either side of the existing stand weren't put in when the rest was built - which if true would suggest either short-sightedness, ridiculous penny-pinching, or a lack of faith that the rest would ever get done.

[EalingGreen]

Only one phase of the Brandywell redevelopment has been completed, we were promised by Martin McGuinness and the Executive that funding to complete the work was guaranteed (see https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-38158441 )

That has went without further mention in recent years and I firmly suspect the Brandywell will now remain untouched for years, in all likelihood until it again falls into a state of disrepair.

The half stand we have should not be as such. That original intent (or so we were all told) was for that to be completed.
Thanks for that DCWA.

I would actually be more optimistic that this Sub-Regional funding will emerge reasonably soon (that's "reasonable" in Stormont terms, btw ;)), since afaik the money was ring-fenced.

The suspension of Stormont obviously didn't help and 5 years after the funding was first announced, they can't really just dust off the old plans and work to them as if nothing had happened in the meantime.

But they do appear to be looking seriously at it again, so maybe the Brandywell will get the next tranche sooner than you fear?

And without looking to score political points, the fact that Nichola Mallon (SDLP) is Infrastructure Minister may help, since she/her party might be expected to hope to gain credit in Derry by spending money there.

[EalingGreen]

Are you suggesting the Irish government is capable of feeling shame?
Fair do's, you got me there, Chief! :cool:

[EalingGreen]

That big new stand on one side of the ground is so small because they only built the middle section of it. It's supposed to have the same size again added on each side to complete it, with corporate boxes etc at the top. And proper toilets underneath, as all they have there at the moment are temporary ones inside container units.

It would look great once completed, but the LOI has a habit of stadium plans never getting to their final stage.
Except that it's not really dependant upon the LOI.

The money is there at Stormont - it's just a case of getting the folks on the hill to release it.


It's also rumoured that the foundations for the 2 wings on either side of the existing stand weren't put in when the rest was built - which if true would suggest either short-sightedness, ridiculous penny-pinching, or a lack of faith that the rest would ever get done.
Them Derry wans dealing in rumours?

No way, that's impossible! :cool:

[EatYerGreens]

Except that it's not really dependant upon the LOI.

The money is there at Stormont - it's just a case of getting the folks on the hill to release it.

I know it's not dependent upon the LOI. No stadium funding is, as it has no money :D. It's just that there is a habit of stadium projects not being completed in the LOI (regardless of why).

Derry's problem will be that Irish League club Institute are also looking for a new stadium in the city and have been homeless for a few years now. Plus as anyone who's been up there can attest, the Brandywell works fine as it is now for Derry City's needs. So if money is tight and/or there are a lot of mouths that need to be fed from it, I would question the Brandywell's chances personally. It may need a political decision to get it over the line - but isn't that what got the whole northern stadium funding into delays and trouble a few years back?

[bohsmug]

Hopefully there is a lot of movement on stadiums up north. Enough that it annoys clubs down here into serious lobbying. Interesting that Larne, Ballymena and Carrick Rangers joined forces and formed a lobbying group.

[oriel]

Simple reason for this with NI clubs getting bigger grants, even though GAA is the biggest sport in NI, for their obvious split community there, the 'soccer' crowd get decent grants to keep the other side happy.

[EalingGreen]

I know it's not dependent upon the LOI. No stadium funding is, as it has no money :D. It's just that there is a habit of stadium projects not being completed in the LOI (regardless of why).

You say "regardless of why", yet you correctly identify the "why" yourself - neither the FAI, LOI nor individual clubs can persuade the Irish govt or local councils to make proper funding available.

Yet DCFC have already proved they can be the exception to the rule by getting funding (from the Council?) for Phase 1 of the redevelopment of the B'well.

Meanwhile, overall funding for NI regional stadia is already there, and Ministers like to be seen to be giving out money, since it makes them popular with the voters. Now I can accept that Stormont's record in getting properly organised on this front is p iss-poor, but the IFA (and others) now appear to be lobbying hard, and since it's not new money they're seeking, they must have a good case.

For example, the IFA got in early in claiming Covid money from Stormont; it was announced the other day that the IFA itself would get £1.7m, whilst 77 clubs and leagues within NI would share a further £4.8m.

And there is more to come later in the month (though other sports will likely get the lion's share of the next tranche):
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/irish-league/how-much-each-football-club-will-receive-from-sports-sustainability-fund-as-crusaders-top-the-bill-40165460.html



Derry's problem will be that Irish League club Institute are also looking for a new stadium in the city and have been homeless for a few years now. Plus as anyone who's been up there can attest, the Brandywell works fine as it is now for Derry City's needs. So if money is tight and/or there are a lot of mouths that need to be fed from it, I would question the Brandywell's chances personally. It may need a political decision to get it over the line - but isn't that what got the whole northern stadium funding into delays and trouble a few years back?
Stute's case is separate from DCFC's, and will be treated accordingly.

Meanwhile, the fact that they're sharing the B'well will, if anything, make it more likely that stadium funding will be released, not less.

And in this particular case, the SDLP's Mallon will want to give SF "a poke in the eye" by getting money to Derry, just the same as she gave the go-ahead the other day to the redevelopment of Casement Park, right in the heart of SF's West Belfast heartland.

If nothing else, if/when the Glens get their £10m released - and they're hinting about big plans lately - there will be no excuse for not giving DCFC their money.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56244512

[EalingGreen]

Simple reason for this with NI clubs getting bigger grants, even though GAA is the biggest sport in NI, for their obvious split community there, the 'soccer' crowd get decent grants to keep the other side happy.
It's a whole lot more nuamced than that, I can tell you.

For one thing, the British Government pumped hundreds of millions into upgrading stadia in GB after Hillsborough (all-seater etc), yet neglected to do the same in NI, even despite enforcing much stricter H&S rules.

Eventually they were persuaded that local sports facilities in NI were barely 3rd World, so redirected some proper money our way. Their initial hope was a shared stadium at The Maze, costing over £100m, but when it finally dawned on them that the figures simply didn't add up re future use and sustainability etc, they changed tack.

Consequently they gave £20m to Ulster Rugby to rebuild Ravenhill, £35m to the IFA to rebuild Windsor, with £62m due to the GAA for Casement.

Leaving aside the Casement debacle, there was also £36m earmarked for smaller ("sub-regional") football stadia, with c.£20m of it to be split between Glentoran and DCFC, and the rest divvied up amongst smaller projects.

(Think I have those figures correct)

Anyhow, I'd be confident that it is still a case of "when" rather than "whether".

[bohsmug]

I wonder how much it is envisaged that Larne's main stand would cost? My understanding is the church end stand will be done regardless of public funding but that this main stand is reliant on some form of grant.

https://www.jpeplanning.com/app/uploads/2020/10/Proposed-Plans-Elevations.pdf

[EalingGreen]

Hopefully there is a lot of movement on stadiums up north. Enough that it annoys clubs down here into serious lobbying. Interesting that Larne, Ballymena and Carrick Rangers joined forces and formed a lobbying group.

Insofar as football has any "vote-buying power" in NI (not much, in truth), then I'd say East Antrim might be more receptive than most.

They're helped by the fact that the local council already owns Ballymena's ground (and keep it pretty tidy, tbf), and also that Larne's new benefactor has pumped a lot of money into making Inver Park a good wee ground, along with big plans for the team (eg f-t football), while he is also looking to build a new hotel in the town:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/larne-fcs-purplebricks-tycoon-bruce-to-open-hotel-in-co-antrim-town-39279596.html

[boynemunich]

Drogheda have missed out on government funding for the Northern Port access route which was to be the trigger for 1000's of homes to be built and the new Drogheda stadium, something our chairman was talking about in a recent podcast. It's a real kick in the teeth for the town as government have turned a blind eye to Drogheda once again and another obstacle in the way for the stadium being built.

[EalingGreen]

I wonder how much it is envisaged that Larne's main stand would cost? My understanding is the church end stand will be done regardless of public funding but that this main stand is reliant on some form of grant.

https://www.jpeplanning.com/app/uploads/2020/10/Proposed-Plans-Elevations.pdf

Interesting stuff, bm. :good:

I'd say Larne's benefactor, Kenny Bruce, is very well clued-up on such things, what with his having made his own money in the property business. Meaning that as well as putting a lot of that money into Inver, he's likely confident of finding the rest of the money from somewhere.

Larne certainly did ok in getting a good share of the Covid money handed out the other day: £453k out of £4.8m handed out to 77 different clubs and leagues within NI:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/irish-league/how-much-each-football-club-will-receive-from-sports-sustainability-fund-as-crusaders-top-the-bill-40165460.html

[EalingGreen]

Re Larne, I've just found some more info (on the club website, funnily enough!)

Seems work on the new Church End stand started in December, so the funding must already be in place, as you say:
"The construction of the new 600-seat stand, is a project which has been supported by Mid and East Antrim Borough Council, with the process to remove the old terracing having already got underway.
Once complete, the new complex will give the provision of 600 seats, including space for wheelchair users. The stand will also include toilet facilities, food servery, drugs and treatment rooms. It will also allow the club to satisfy the requirements of both domestic and UEFA licensing.

The work [on the Church End stand], being carried out by Whiteside Contracting Limited, represents Phase 7 of the redevelopment of Inver Park, which began two and half years ago... ... the construction team have set the target of having the work complete by Spring 2021.

The previous phases, which have all been completed at the stadium, are:

Replacement synthetic pitch
Erection of new state-of-the-art floodlighting
Improvement works to existing Landmark stand and terrace
Construction of McKay Stand
Construction of Camera Gantry
Refurbishment of Players Changing Rooms"

https://www.larnefc.com/construction-work-on-church-end-gets-underway/

As for a new Main Stand, it doesn't say exactly how/when, but they do say:
"Phase 8 will be the replacement of the current Landmark Main Stand, with the planning application having been lodged at the beginning of this week."

Progressive wee club.

P.S. Found some pics of the ground, incl. this one which shows what the new Church End Stand will be replacing:

https://footballgroundguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/inver-park-larne-looking-towards-the-church-end-1579108707.jpg

More here: https://footballgroundguide.com/leagues/northern-ireland-premier-league-clubs/inver-park-larne.html

[Nesta99]

Not directly about stadia but an interesting insight nonetheless. Yesterday funding was announced for urban regeneration in areas of the North-East, the vast majority of that money was allocated to projects in Monaghan and Cavan Towns and Dundalk. The sh1t storm it has kicked up in Drogheda is something to behold - not the Monaghan or Cavan projects but the Dundalk ones. Tbh I was quite surprised by the rabid reaction to funding for a Dundalk project on LMFM phone ins and whatever will appear in print media this week. Im finding it a bit on the amusing side tbh and Drogheda proposals weren't completely left out!

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/85a2b-revitalising-the-north-east-obrien-announces-351-million-for-regeneration-projects/

If there was as much effort put in to funding applications by counsellors than looking up the M1 to see what 'em ones are getting Drogheda would have its own airport by now!! Just imagine it was for a stand at Oriel Park...

[EatYerGreens]

Stute's case is separate from DCFC's, and will be treated accordingly.

With so many clubs looking for money from the same pot and given the green-orange nature of doling money out up there, I'd be surprised if Derry got funding for 2 separate stadiums.


Meanwhile, the fact that they're sharing the B'well will, if anything, make it more likely that stadium funding will be released, not less.

That doesn't figure if, as you say, the two cases are separate. And also if Stute are applying for fundng specifically so they have somewhere else to no longer need to play at the Brandywell (non sequitur).


And in this particular case, the SDLP's Mallon will want to give SF "a poke in the eye" by getting money to Derry, just the same as she gave the go-ahead the other day to the redevelopment of Casement Park, right in the heart of SF's West Belfast heartland.

Nichola Malloon is the Transport Minister, so will have nothing to do with the stadium money. It'll be entirely down to the Sports Minister - who's Sinn Féin.

I hope Derry get the funding, as it would be an excellent stadium with that side done fully. I just don't have a lot of faith in the way things are done in NI. Especially when you'll have a lot of clubs and people claiming that Derry should get nothing as they 'don't even play in the North'.

[Bucket]

Surely the next phase of the Brandywell should be behind the goals?

[EatYerGreens]

Surely the next phase of the Brandywell should be behind the goals?

Makes sense to finish the other two-thirds of the big stand along the side of the pitch. Better views, proper toilets, corporate boxes, presumably a shop/food stall or two. None of those things would be going in a much smaller space behind the goals.

Though you'd hope they'd do behind the goals at some stage. The curved ends of the old stand won't help much on that though. Will need either partly rebuilding, or some weird ugly design top cope with keeping them (e..g pushing a new stand behind the goals further back so as not to be further forward than the curved ends).

[Bucket]

Ya wouldn't need the seats in the curved stand to go all the way to the end, just as far as the corner flag. The end could be re-purposed as something,like a TV studio

[EalingGreen]

With so many clubs looking for money from the same pot and given the green-orange nature of doling money out up there, I'd be surprised if Derry got funding for 2 separate stadiums.

The money was ring-fenced in 2015, long before Stute were flooded out, with a reported £10m to go to DCFC (to match the £10m going to the Glens).



That doesn't figure if, as you say, the two cases are separate. And also if Stute are applying for fundng specifically so they have somewhere else to no longer need to play at the Brandywell (non sequitur).

My point was that so long as Stute are playing in the Brandywell, that only makes the case for funding more urgent.

As for the bigger picture, when the Sub-Regional money was first promised, Stute were never in the running, at least not for fundingh for a new ground.

Meaning any funding for a new ground will have to come from somewhere else - it's not affected by the S-R money, nor does it affect it.



Nichola Malloon is the Transport Minister, so will have nothing to do with the stadium money. It'll be entirely down to the Sports Minister - who's Sinn Féin.

Sorry, my mistake - I had thought this was now within her remit, after reading this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54522088

Either way, SDLP or SF, both will be eager to shove money Derry's way.



I hope Derry get the funding, as it would be an excellent stadium with that side done fully. I just don't have a lot of faith in the way things are done in NI. Especially when you'll have a lot of clubs and people claiming that Derry should get nothing as they 'don't even play in the North'.
It's fcuk-all to do with "a lot of clubs and people". The Stormont Executive has the money, and they will disburse it.

And with the way things work within the Executive, there is no way one lot (eg East Belfast) is going to get a big wedge of money without the other lot (Derry) getting the same.

As for "they don't even play in the North etc", the fact is, they pay rent/rates/VAT/taxes there, so there is no valid (or even legal?) reason for depriving them of money which has been promised.

In any case, I have a feeling that technically at least, they may still be members of the IFA, just as eg Cardiff City are members of the FAW? DCFC Women certainly play in the NIWL.

So it is not lack of funds, politics or discrimination which is preventing DCFC from getting their due, it is just the usual incompetence and lethargy at Stormont.

[bohsmug]

Think the boundary for the greyhound track in The Brandywell is probably too close to one end for anything to go in there. It is a curious build, with the curved stand now that the track has gone. It's a nice ground though. The view used to be a problem for away fans but I find it grand now.

[DCWA]

I don’t agree that the Brandywell as it stands is fit for Derry’s needs, call me ambitious but the capacity is capped at less than 4000. That is a low ceiling.

[bohsmug]

I don’t agree that the Brandywell as it stands is fit for Derry’s needs, call me ambitious but the capacity is capped at less than 4000. That is a low ceiling.

If the new stand was extended on the wings would you consider it alright then? Guessing that would put it at about 5,500.

[EatYerGreens]

I don’t agree that the Brandywell as it stands is fit for Derry’s needs, call me ambitious but the capacity is capped at less than 4000. That is a low ceiling.

Ambition is about the future though, not the here and now. The Brandywell doesn't sell out. Has only done once in recent years for the League Cup, but that could easily have gone to a different venue on the coin toss.

Agree that in the future it could well be too small. But it'll be chasing this funding up against clubs that don't even have a home at all (e.g. Institute, Ards) ones with pretty crappy grounds (e.g. Carrick Rangers) and ones with parts of their ground condemned/closed to the public (e.g. Cliftonville). You'd think that an objective analysis would put cases like those ahead of a recently refurbished ground which currently does the job fine and is never at full capacity.

[Dalymountrower]

Bohs and DCU have announced an 18 year partnership to locate Bohs training facilities on DCU campus. Work already completed on fitting out dressing rooms and joint application in with DCU for a capital grant for a third all weather pitch.
Looks like the Matt Doherty dividend and fees for Danny Grant, Warren O`Hora and some player we off loaded to a South County Dublin side, being put to good use.

[nigel-harps1954]

Clubs having their own training base should be a minimum, going forward. Harps, for example, have been spending huge money each year on training facilities. Finally, this year, we're getting our own training ground, located next to the new stadium. A first step to moving across the other side of the river. Will be a huge saving to the club to get it up and running, with a lot of the initial cost offset by the new car draw being run by the club currently.

You can help support the club and buy some tickets..of course..

https://newyearnewcar.ie/

[Bucket]

Would ye not use the money to finish the stadium instead of starting another project? I can just hear Harps fans in 14 years complaining that ye have been waiting 14 years for the training ground and 28 years for the stadium!

[Mr A]

Building a stadium and fitting out a training pitch we have a lease on are two very different scales of funding.

[DCWA]

https://newyearnewcar.ie/

This is a fantastic URL to have going forward each year something that has endless room for growth, for €20 a ticket could really be pushed across the country. People with no interest in football can be drawn in.

That being said the draw not being to April takes wee bit off it, but great potential to build it into a New Years Eve/Day event people could be bought tickets as xmas gift in a card.