Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

[sbgawa]

No direct bus from kilbogget to Tallaght 😁
.

Cabo fans don't use the bus service, they only run buses out there so the maids, gardeners and general helpers can get home

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Cabo missed a trick not pushing for a stadium to be included in the Cherrywood development, ideal location and good timing but seems to have passed them by.

[sbgawa]

They did push just got nowhere.
Council put lots of requirements on the developers 're schools public areas etc, even provision of full size astro which is already built but there are no access roads so local clubs can't use them.
I assume a new junior club will start up eventually when people start to move in.
....cherrywood fc ....

The council should build a 2000 seater stadium in kilbogget with a running track around it.
An astro pitch would accomadate seapoint RFC , Cabo, Cabo athletics club and some GAA crowd that play there as well.
If they provide comfortable padded heated seats with access to a bar (the rugger boys already have one....typically ! The locals will give it a try

[jbyrne]

They did push just got nowhere.
Council put lots of requirements on the developers 're schools public areas etc, even provision of full size astro which is already built but there are no access roads so local clubs can't use them.
I assume a new junior club will start up eventually when people start to move in.
....cherrywood fc ....

The council should build a 2000 seater stadium in kilbogget with a running track around it.
An astro pitch would accomadate seapoint RFC , Cabo, Cabo athletics club and some GAA crowd that play there as well.
If they provide comfortable padded heated seats with access to a bar (the rugger boys already have one....typically ! The locals will give it a try

that "some GAA crowd" were in last years all-Ireland ladies club final!
there are plans to develop the park but cant see a stadium being part of the plan. too much pressure on space for the existing requirements as it is.

[EatYerGreens]

No direct bus from kilbogget to Tallaght 
Think the idea was that Pats would move to Tallaght (as per FAI masterplan) Bohs/Shels at revamped Dalymount and Shams/Pats at Tallaght. Still the most likely long term outcome (even if Pats are playing hard to get).

That's a strategy that would see the league essentially end up with just 2 of those 4 teams surviving/competing in the long term.

LOI club struggle to get crowds as it is. Putting two of them together in the exact same place in Dublin means they'd be competing for the same local support as well.

It's just typical FAI to come up with something like this, as they don't give a sh!te about the league..

[sbgawa]

That's a strategy that would see the league essentially end up with just 2 of those 4 teams surviving/competing in the long term.

LOI club struggle to get crowds as it is. Putting two of them together in the exact same place in Dublin means they'd be competing for the same local support as well.

It's just typical FAI to come up with something like this, as they don't give a sh!te about the league..

100% correct , whichever of the two clubs was more successful would take any new "floating support" and Corporate sponsorship and bleed the other one dry.
Although maybe the FAI have a cunning plan for increasing average attendances Shelhiams V Shamrock Athletic ??

[marinobohs]

100% correct , whichever of the two clubs was more successful would take any new "floating support" and Corporate sponsorship and bleed the other one dry.
Although maybe the FAI have a cunning plan for increasing average attendances Shelhiams V Shamrock Athletic ??

Would be a loss alright to lose the two lesser clubs but Bohs and Pats would just have to carry on 😎

[sbgawa]

Would be a loss alright to lose the two lesser clubs but Bohs and Pats would just have to carry on 


Shelhimians and ShamCaboRock Atheltic carving up the euro places with Drogdalk town for years to come, you know it makes sense

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Shelhimians and ShamCaboRock Atheltic carving up the euro places with Drogdalk town for years to come, you know it makes sense

I prefer Shamteely Athletic personally. Rolls off the tongue nicely

[EatYerGreens]

I quite like the name Bohbourne.

And Shamtrick Rovletics

[sbgawa]

Shambos. (That's the bo in Cabo just in case there is any confusion :)

[Nesta99]

Didnt want to put this in the League Cup thread, it would probably be moved anyway, so in answer to Martinho -


What is the story with Louth Co Co in general with its attitude to soccer clubs in the region?.
Drogheda Utd have huge issues with their stadium for years too along with Dundalk.

That's something I can answer reasonably well though its heading for 12 years since working with the sports section of LCC so i'm open to additional details/correction! They are basically neutral. The budget in general is really tight - a couple of reasons are legacy debt, huge tracts of land that were bought c2007-8 for a lot more than actual value with a view to future housing development obviously not expecting a crash in the value and use of the land*; Compliance of business rates are poor, somewhere around 40% in arrears or not payed (a different debate that). The other reason is that the elected members have annually voted to keep taxes/rates etc at the lowest level. There is an annual standoff between the CEO & Directors of Service and the elected members and when the budget is rejected non essential services get cut and so on. One of the first things to go is the sporting budget.

The focus has been on improving things that currently exist and accessible to everyone in the county eg parks, playgrounds, walkways and so on. There is a lot of money being spent on developing and extending walkways eg the Carlingford-Omeath greenway which the plan is to extend the full length of the county coast. In a similar way hillwalking routes in the Cooley area are being made more accessible with 'road' improvements and car parking. You will see quite a few outdoor 'gym' points on walkways.
Any significant money spent is nearly always via SCGs for any municipal facilities like Dundalk Sports Centre, Lourdes Stadium in Drogheda (running track but only 4 lanes so always the bare minimum really). A new 4g football pitch and multi-surface playing area were installed over the last few years at the sports centre. As the centre is in Muirhevena Mór, an extensive social housing area with associated issues, they get additional funding for that area.

The recent County Ground plans were nearly scuppered by both the council and GAA as one wanted the land transferred in to sole ownership for nothing and the council wanted prime development land predominantly for housing and extension of the retail park - I suppose to generate funds via levies. I'm pretty sure the council owned the land in question so wouldnt have been willing to give it away for a non multi use facility. DkITs involvement I'm sure helped smooth things over in that regard.

*Drogheda's new ground amounts to really just giving a site to Drogheda United, land that was purchased that there is little need for and is costing too much to hold on to. LCC are not financially assisting Drogheda United directly. This will only benefit the Drogs if or when they sell United Park and dont have to pay for a new site. It's workable in this case as United Park is an area badly needed by the HSE/Council for expansion of the existing Hospital and social amenities in the vicinity. The County Ground issue also has this in mind as developing the existing county designated ground at O'Raghallaighs GFC would box in any potenial for development and they would need to use HSE car parks on matchnights for example. I wouldnt rule out LCC looking for payment if United Park was sold for a premium, or that they expect a sale to a government agency not to be costed at a premium for the land. Drogheda could sell to whom they liked but they'd have to be careful as it could be swings and roundabouts in what it could cost them out of the sale money.

The Director of Service if thats what they are still called over Dundalk Municipal District is a dyed in the wool Drogheda United fan, and the Director of Corporate Services at LCC is a big Dundalk FC fan and season ticket holder. The CEO's family would be GAA people but I dont think the CEO herself has any particular agenda for or against other sports.

LCC as much as possible would go easy with planning as long as there are no contraventions, indeed the YDC development was a bit too lax when details emerged of it being built partly on land the then club owner didnt own. Oriel Park will undoubtedly need exemptions on things like car parking if it is ever redeveloped. There is also a good possibility that what currently exists at Oriel, if changed extensively, will mean that more recent planning regulations come in to play eg traffic impact, accessability etc. Hiney Park, Joes Field, land owned by Iarnrod Eireann behind the town goal, Furry Glen even the Derryhale Hotel, if owned or had been kept in ownership of the club, such regulations could be overcome.

I'm sure its the same in all counties but my eyes were seriously opened on the excessive cost that things seemed to be when it was a council purchase or project, regardless of the tenders submitted. One of the smaller playgrounds in the county needed fencing installed due to repeat vandalism and the cost was nearly €100k - it would barely be an acre in terms of size. So LCC dont want to get caught up paying for municipal facilities that have significant ongoing costs. Again when looking at lawsuits and payouts against the councils facilities it was eyewatering!! The outdoor gym equipment and insurance never mind playgrounds run to €100k's.

It should be noted that LCC particularly in Dundalk have rightly used CPOs regularly on vacant housing (Ard Dealgan probably the highest profile example) to grow social housing stock. This seems to be their primary focus on any signiicant current spending.

There wont ever be a Tallaght like municipal facility in Louth unless it becomes a central directive. But LCC wont unnecessarily obstruct sports facility develoments. They would assist projects from preplanning, grant applications, even agree to service sites. They wont drop planning levies eg and set that precedence - that was tried by a number of GAA clubs (and probably with the YDC). There is a difference with SDCC and LCC in terms of Tallaght being a central focus of the SDCC area. For LCC build a municipal ground in Dundalk and one will be expected in Drogheda and even a scaled down version in Ardee also. The county is too small to duplicate big projects but big enough not to be able to centralise such projects for Dundalk and Drogheda's use, when the Drogheda stadium plans were announced there was some gnashing of teeth in Dundalk also. There is a reason why redrawing the county boundary to move Drogheda fully in to Meath was a semi serious proposal not so long ago. It's only about 5 years ago that counsellors of Drogheda Corporation voted on a proposal that Scotch Hall Shopping Centre be purchased to open 'Drogheda Institute of Technology,' DkIT is a 20 minute drive to the north and DCU among others is about 20 mins south, that doesnt matter though as what one town has the other wants and tbh its more an issue in Drogheda. There are already GAA clubs in south Louth that propose a boycott of the new County Ground in Dundalk. So LCC tend to stay clear of large non essential projects as it becomes a political football in the county to the detriment of the county tbh.

[Nesta99]

Cant edit above post but LCC recieved €400k for the land that the County Ground is being built on so there was no freebie for the GAA which is consistant with how they operate.

[Shearer]

That Louth GAA ground has a stand the length of the field with no seats.
If you're going to do something do it right, you wouldn't get that in the Conference.

[Nesta99]

That's Louth GAA summed up - not even non league! Buutt there isnt the need for much more than 4000 seats and the terraced side is being built with a view to installing seats in the future. It could be in the future developed to 20k capacity mainly covered seating. The GAA seem to like leaving parts of grounds open to the elements...

[dundalkfc10]

That Louth GAA ground has a stand the length of the field with no seats.
If you're going to do something do it right, you wouldn't get that in the Conference.

Its a terrace (covered) holding near 10,000 people. WTF is their to complain about that?

I hope if Oriels ever done up, ita not an all seater stadium. Terraces like Dortmund, Celtic Park in the corner at one end ia the way to go. Spurs new ground has been set up to remove the seats behind the goals if/once safe stading is allowed in Prem League

[Nesta99]

Its a terrace (covered) holding near 10,000 people. WTF is their to complain about that?

I hope if Oriels ever done up, ita not an all seater stadium. Terraces like Dortmund, Celtic Park in the corner at one end ia the way to go. Spurs new ground has been set up to remove the seats behind the goals if/once safe stading is allowed in Prem League

Not much but why seem so touchy about it?

[Guitd]

Any chance someone up in Finn park cud get someone to give the cross bars a wipe there f****** filthy looks so unprofessional on tv highlights

[EAFC_rdfl]

Is it both ends or just one in particular?

[redobit]

Any chance someone up in Finn park cud get someone to give the cross bars a wipe there f****** filthy looks so unprofessional on tv highlights

In fairness a bit of dirt on the crossbar is the least of the problems that Finn Park has.

[nigel-harps1954]

Any chance someone up in Finn park cud get someone to give the cross bars a wipe there f****** filthy looks so unprofessional on tv highlights

Haha.

Hahaha!

[Nesta99]

Do many people listen to the RTE LoI podcast? This week there was chat about league facilities and some valid observations but there was really a sense of a lack of awareness of the reality of LoI by the pundits!

In the above long post I mentioned the annual issue with taxation and the setting of budgets at LCC. The annual issue has reared it's head again although I'm suprised that that amount raised would only have been €1.44m. It indicates what a massive outlay Tallaght Stadium was for SDCC and why other Local Authorities wont or cant commit to similar projects if there is less than €1.5m in (additional) discretionary spending ability.
https://www.talkofthetown.ie/local-property-tax-rate-in-louth-to-remain-unchanged-yet-again-in-2020/

[El-Pietro]

Do many people listen to the RTE LoI podcast? This week there was chat about league facilities and some valid observations but there was really a sense of a lack of awareness of the reality of LoI by the pundits!

In the above long post I mentioned the annual issue with taxation and the setting of budgets at LCC. The annual issue has reared it's head again although I'm suprised that that amount raised would only have been €1.44m. It indicates what a massive outlay Tallaght Stadium was for SDCC and why other Local Authorities wont or cant commit to similar projects if there is less than €1.5m in (additional) discretionary spending ability.
https://www.talkofthetown.ie/local-property-tax-rate-in-louth-to-remain-unchanged-yet-again-in-2020/

I used to when it was an LOI podcast, I unsubscribed two episodes in this year when it was mostly talk about Liverpool.

[hoopy]

https://www.derrycityfc.net/2019/09/statement-from-board-of-directors-damage/?fbclid=IwAR00FriWia_NGVZFNi7KLhBWb77ab-Pwz-jAf6WB5MvWEHnZ2lMp-tqRKQ4

[sbgawa]

I assumed reading it that it was away fans on the basis that why would home fans trash their own stadium ??.
Sounds a bit mad

[hoopy]

I assumed reading it that it was away fans on the basis that why would home fans trash their own stadium ??.
Sounds a bit mad

I posted as I assume the only reason nobody else did was because it wasn't Rovers fans being accused.

[Ezeikial]

I posted as I assume the only reason nobody else did was because it wasn't Rovers fans being accused.

The persecution complex is alive and well.

[Nesta99]

The persecution complex is alive and well.

That was my first though exactly when reading Hoopy's 2nd comment. My own initial reaction before reading the statement was 'I hope to fook it wasnt the section Dundalk fans were in', certainly not a post to prove it wasnt Dundalk fans responsible or would have assumed Rovers were somehow responsible due to lack of comment!

I am glad that I just dont understand why such cretins would behave in such a manner in general never mind to their own home facilities! I hope that the decent fans of Derry that were in that section and witnessed anything will report the idiots culpable. It is just not something that you'd expect at all in the Brandywell!

[fionnsci]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/article38557030.ece

What's the latest on Dalymount anyway?

[Nesta99]

I'm not so sure I totally agree with SK on this. Tallaght with a 4th stand will be what 12k capacity (could the corners also be used to increase capacity further if there is ever a need? albeit it would likely be pricey for the relative additional capacity?). To have a range of capacities is useful from an international team perspective especially across the different ages and womans teams. There is nothing wrong with showing and having ambition and maybe the Dalymount project should be around 8-10k. What should be done is for the development to be planned in such a way that option for future increased capacity is factored in without need for demolishing anything again. Just need Pats to build a 20k stadium and all bases are covered...or build a ground for a provincial town, half way between Dublin and Belfast would be handy in case there is ever a future need with an island league and international team...

[EatYerGreens]

I'm not so sure I totally agree with SK on this. Tallaght with a 4th stand will be what 12k capacity (could the corners also be used to increase capacity further if there is ever a need? albeit it would likely be pricey for the relative additional capacity?). To have a range of capacities is useful from an international team perspective especially across the different ages and womans teams. There is nothing wrong with showing and having ambition and maybe the Dalymount project should be around 8-10k. What should be done is for the development to be planned in such a way that option for future increased capacity is factored in without need for demolishing anything again. Just need Pats to build a 20k stadium and all bases are covered...or build a ground for a provincial town, half way between Dublin and Belfast would be handy in case there is ever a future need with an island league and international team...

I think the fourth stand will take Tallaght up to 10,000.

The design of Dalymount looks like it won't make it easy to expand in the future. From memory, its main stands will have sloping roofs - which isn't ideal for bolting onto above.

A 6,000 capacity for Dalymount feels too low, and a bit short-sighted. Especially if the league finally gets a bit of promotion and/or an AIL starts. It could become too small very quickly.

[Nesta99]

I think the fourth stand will take Tallaght up to 10,000.

The design of Dalymount looks like it won't make it easy to expand in the future. From memory, its main stands will have sloping roofs - which isn't ideal for bolting onto above.

A 6,000 capacity for Dalymount feels too low, and a bit short-sighted. Especially if the league finally gets a bit of promotion and/or an AIL starts. It could become too small very quickly.

Sure it could be sold again and then build a bigger ground in somewhere like Swords, Fingal CoCo might get interested again with looking how Tallaght has done for SDCC...Sporting Bohemian FC, Shels can keep Dalymount. I jest of course but this is LoI!!

[bohsmug]

I'm probably in the minority in that I think 6k is ok. A couple of sell outs a year isn't a bad thing. As in 1 or 2 sellouts a year, not 10 like this year. Under 4,000 is definitely too small. If (a big if) Bohs ever were to qualify for European group stages I'd have thought a new 6k facility would have a good chance of getting an exemption. Like Tallaght did for Dundalk and Rovers Europa League campaigns. That said, I can see the argument for an 8k stadium. Considering segregation of fans knocks a couple of hundred off capacity. 10k would be too big and could impact crowds negatively. I think good, appropriately sized stadiums should be the aim of all clubs.

10k or above is too big IMO. In the 10k Dalymount proposal, the two main stands hold 4,500. I can see that feeling and looking empty far too often. The 8k proposal had main stands at 3,500 and the 6k at 2,500.

[fionnsci]

Surely there's a way to build an 8k stadium without the OTT main stand sizes - which I agree would be very empty too often. Two main stands of 3k, two behind the goals of 1k would be perfect. UEFA Category 4 should be the priority, unforgivable to build a stadium in the city from scratch that can't be used for European group stage games.

[David BOHie]

Think it's to do with lack of space behind the goals with the new pitch orientation

[bohsmug]

Yeah in all iterations of the plan there have only been 500 seats behind each goal. So it must be an impossibility to fit more in with the new orientation.

I know the club have mentioned that they'd like safe standing areas included. I wonder where that would be. Ideally (this goes for all clubs/grounds) you want to have the bulk of your fanbase facing the camera.

BTW if anybody's interested there's loads of small to medium sized stadiums being built in Hungary at the moment. Probably a scandalous amount of money being spent. But some of them are very interesting.

[nr637]

If Shams were able to sell out Tallaght's 8,000 on a regular basis for the Bohs games then there might be a case for Dalymount planners to consider a bigger capacity or if there was going to be regular U21 International & other sports at the venue!

I think the progress behind the scene at Bohs with their improved attendances is encouraging, but would a new 10,000 Dalymount really get anymore through the turnstiles!

[bohsmug]

If Shams were able to sell out Tallaght's 8,000 on a regular basis for the Bohs games then there might be a case for Dalymount planners to consider a bigger capacity or if there was going to be regular U21 International & other sports at the venue!

I think the progress behind the scene at Bohs with their improved attendances is encouraging, but would a new 10,000 Dalymount really get anymore through the turnstiles!

No, I just see it feeling empty most of the time. That would affect the match day experience and make it feel like there must be somewhere better to be. I know Dalymount currently has empty, condemned stands. But a big bright shiny empty stand is a different thing and harder to fade into the background.

My inklings is that 10,000 is too big for Tallaght too and that closer to 8,000 should have been spread out over the four stands. But a Rovers fan may feel otherwise and there is a case to be made for it. It's becoming a bit of a 2nd home for the FAI, Tallaght feels like a good fit for U-21 and women's internationals. I don't really see the justification for a 2nd 10,000 seater soccer stadium in Dublin unfortunately.

[SkStu]

I am pretty sure the biggest part of the reason for not going to 8k was because of the additional cost the project would incur as a result of it being a Cat 4 UEFA stadium. These requirements would have required additional space inside and outside the stadium that just isnt available (e.g. 150 VIP parking spots, 100 VIP seats - see link below) and/or additional land/euros that just wasn't on. I am very disappointed that we will be limited to a 6k stadium but it is the price to pay for wanting to stay in Phibsboro. And we have to remember how lucky we are to even be having these types of conversations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_stadium_categories

[nr637]

There was supposed to be an 8,000 sell out last night at Tallaght for the Ireland Women's game, but it looked empty even though it was announced over 5,300+ were there! Just imagine a 10,000 seater, it would have felt more eerie!

[bohsmug]

Well in theory you could still build an 8k stadium, without upgrading it to Cat 4. But then that would probably draw a lot of criticism.

I wonder what level it has to be at to stand a good chance of being granted an exemption should the need arise. Like Tallaght has previously. Or if Tallaght is Cat 4 and relatively nearby would you just be told to play there.

[Nesta99]

If any more needs to be said on the piecemeal bare minimum nature of Louth CoCo's mathods on sporting infrastructure well here is an example - a grass track (that one day may be an artificial track) that wouldnt be up to even regional never mind national or international standards. This now nicely balances the refurb (or another half effort) at the Lourdes Stadium in Drogheda that couldnt host anything bar local events either.
https://www.talkofthetown.ie/work-on-new-dundalk-municipal-athletics-track-to-get-underway-later-this-month/

Had a chat today about plans that were in the works for a Louth Stadium driven by the then head of DkIT. Apparently this project made it beyond a mere pipedream and had secured central government funding. It involved DkIT, Dundalk FC, Dundalk RFC, Drogheda United and possibly Boyne RFC and hopefully the GAA. While it would have been preferred to have it on campus it was recognised that this wasnt going to work for Drogheda based clubs so a site off the M1 circa Dunleer was identified. All NGBs and the Dept of Sport were on board and with ancilliary facilities for sports science, media, parking basically all that would have meant the good possibility of a Cat 3 and with additional time and funding a Cat 4 stadium. Buuuuttt Louth GAA refused to share any facility and with Peter Fitzpatrick (ex Louth GAA manager) and Seamus Kirk (driving force behind the pointless €2m+ Louth GAA 'centre of excellence) in the Dail they lobbied against the above project. Tbh I thought it was just a tester at the time, I certainly didnt realise that it had gotten funding and was as far as preplanning. Now maybe people will be glad that football isnt being played on a GAA pitch but also apparently this was to be factored in to design with seating that could roll out to football size and retracted for GAA....now with that same lobby a single use sports ground is being built in Dundalk. When Oriel and United Parks also eventually recieve SPGs over the years for improvements/new builds there will be duplication of the facilities that LSPs were set up to try and prevent with the single use facility of the County Ground! All the allocation of funding needs to be taken totally out of the hands of the Dept of Sport and have an independant body oversee allocation and throw out any lobby that wastes tax payers money. It would be interesting what damage this has also done in loss of revenue to the local economy by both LoI clubs having to host games in Dublin for starters. I'm attached to Oriel so it would have been a wrench but the principle of it is infuriating!!!!!

[NeverFeltBetter]

Linking this here because the area being discussed includes Jackman Park, and I have a feeling "Limerick United" will end up playing there if they get into the League of Ireland next year: https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0110/1105547-limerick-masterplan/

All long-term stuff of course, but there has been a good bit of work done in that area of late. The houses on the "away" side of Jackman were done up for example. Lots more to do though.

[nigel-harps1954]

http://www.donegalsporthub.com/finn-harps-stadium-plans-in-limbo-as-project-left-off-funding-list/

Finn Harps left in limbo once again..

This news has left me gutted.

[Martinho II]

http://www.donegalsporthub.com/finn-harps-stadium-plans-in-limbo-as-project-left-off-funding-list/

Finn Harps left in limbo once again..

This news has left me gutted.

That happened to us for over a decade and a half from early 80s with Mullogher Grounds works lying idle for a good couple of years as promised funds didnt go through as promised so identify your pain!

[Guitd]

http://www.donegalsporthub.com/finn-harps-stadium-plans-in-limbo-as-project-left-off-funding-list/

Finn Harps left in limbo once again..

This news has left me gutted.

Here in Galway €20 million foe Connacht rugby & €2.1 m to a local gaa club doesn’t make sense with harps project already started

[Nesta99]

http://www.donegalsporthub.com/finn-harps-stadium-plans-in-limbo-as-project-left-off-funding-list/

Finn Harps left in limbo once again..

This news has left me gutted.

It's very frustrating and a real gut punch for fans! There is just something out of kilter with this project. Circumstances changed economically from the plan's inception but subsequently its been hard to wrap the head around including the money allocated for redoing the proposal considering money already allocated and now this lack of follow through by the Dept of Sport. Where is the original developer at in all of this? If the application was all good some money would have been granted if not all. To be left off the list entirely? Unless there is to be an exceptional announcement for full funding outside of this SPG round but that would be communicated to the TD.

[SeanDMRooney]

It's very frustrating and a real gut punch for fans! There is just something out of kilter with this project. Circumstances changed economically from the plan's inception but subsequently its been hard to wrap the head around including the money allocated for redoing the proposal considering money already allocated and now this lack of follow through by the Dept of Sport. Where is the original developer at in all of this? If the application was all good some money would have been granted if not all. To be left off the list entirely? Unless there is to be an exceptional announcement for full funding outside of this SPG round but that would be communicated to the TD.


It never makes sense to me as a harps fan and there is never a justification provided by anyone involved in the project. The mooted plans last year were actually incredibly disappointing. Some day a history will be written of this and I say it’s a shame on everyone involved from the board to the secret stadium committee to funding everyone.

[nigel-harps1954]

It never makes sense to me as a harps fan and there is never a justification provided by anyone involved in the project. The mooted plans last year were actually incredibly disappointing. Some day a history will be written of this and I say it’s a shame on everyone involved from the board to the secret stadium committee to funding everyone.

Which plans were disappointing?

[SeanDMRooney]

Which plans were disappointing?

the ones that were for the single stand ? A replication of Athlone ?