Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

[Mr A]

That was the plan, we planned to advertise widely on Facebook but despite months of process with them never got permission as they flagged it as gambling. Utterly infuriating interactions the whole way through.

It would be no bother if instead of a community football club we were a far right hate group looking to undermine democracy.

[DCSIL]

Ambition is about the future though, not the here and now. The Brandywell doesn't sell out. Has only done once in recent years for the League Cup, but that could easily have gone to a different venue on the coin toss.

Agree that in the future it could well be too small. But it'll be chasing this funding up against clubs that don't even have a home at all (e.g. Institute, Ards) ones with pretty crappy grounds (e.g. Carrick Rangers) and ones with parts of their ground condemned/closed to the public (e.g. Cliftonville). You'd think that an objective analysis would put cases like those ahead of a recently refurbished ground which currently does the job fine and is never at full capacity.

I watched Carrick Rangers play Glentoran on Friday Night, they're building a small terrace down the main stand side and looks like they've done some developments on the Bridge Side. The Terrace behind the goal is decent enough too. I wouldn't say its Crappy at all, there's worse in the IL.

[nigel-harps1954]

Would ye not use the money to finish the stadium instead of starting another project? I can just hear Harps fans in 14 years complaining that ye have been waiting 14 years for the training ground and 28 years for the stadium!

Aside from what Mr A says, the money being used to develop the training ground presumably wouldn't have the builders at the new stadium for more than a couple of hours..

[Bucket]

I just had a look at Google maps. Are ye moving into the place with the blue running track and small astros?
Whatever about stadiums, it's great to see clubs with big plans in place or in progress; Roadstone, Dundalks YDC, Bohs-SKB-DCU, Cork-FAI new training facility, Galway Utd's Mountain South plans. Anyone have updates on Cork or Galway's progress?

[oriel]

Dundalk seem to have an medium term arrangement with local junior club Quay Celtic (excellent grass pitch) for training for away games, while the grass pitch behind the carrick road goal has its 'seasonal challenges'. DFC used this for prep for most of the EL group games and they have been training most of this week there.

Always good to see junior clubs forge links with senior clubs, and I`m sure DFC will be only too happy to offer them the YDC for winter training / gym work etc.

[Nesta99]

Clubs having their own training base should be a minimum, going forward. Harps, for example, have been spending huge money each year on training facilities. Finally, this year, we're getting our own training ground, located next to the new stadium. A first step to moving across the other side of the river. Will be a huge saving to the club to get it up and running, with a lot of the initial cost offset by the new car draw being run by the club currently.

You can help support the club and buy some tickets..of course..

https://newyearnewcar.ie/

By finally this year you mean sometime in 2035:p Joking on LoI's altered warping of time on projects aside, thats a great move by Bohs/DCU. I agree that there are some positive moves on youth development/training facilities. While i'm sure many were in the pipline I think such facilities are are even more important post Brexit - a silver lining if there is one in a sea change from the FAI's general shortsighted policy of sending our players to the UK to be developed. It is interesting to read about young Cathal Heffernan going training in Italy, it will be an exciting experience for him - while we should always aim to develop our own players with the potential financial benefit to our own clubs, if they are to go abroad let it be to Italy, Spain et all and not lower ranked English or Scottish club (maybe some some of the bigger clubs too).

On the YDC at Oriel is a good facility for further development in is also a hindrance for any potential development of Oriel Park too with it so close to the pitch. Its a pity it is not further back so that even rotatig the pitch (again) would have been an option that would allow new builds while keeping the stand for behind a goal. If we were to splash the cash with a viw to ground development we need to be buying up parcels of land in the vicinity eg 'Joes Field' and Iarnrod Eireann land that they dont need since the closing to the Macardle Moore Brewery. Looking to get Hiney Park from Dundalk Grammar School should be a priority too. I'm sure some agreement with DGS for the use of their pitches in exchange for pitch maintenance for example.

While there are opportunities in the future for Dundalk/DkIT to consider also, similar to Bohs/DCU the old nugget of the new County Ground crops up again - across the road from DkIT, and ideally sited as a general regional sports campus with the stadium at its core (Ice Hockey rink, soccer dome and swimming pool already on site), 5min walk from the municipal sports centre with 3G pitches and an athletics track and velodrome proposed pending NGB support, a Boxing club, multi-surface game areas and tennis courts. With the amount of car parking space, decent hotel, access to RTE regional studios at DkIT, a sports science lab in the works (DkIT sports physiologists lecturers and students have done testing with the club) and established variations of sports science courses already there with scholarships, its such a waste of an opportunity and tax payer resources for it to be a single use facility. Its would have been in daily use by DkIT, LouthCoCo were on board with another plan so would have switched to this imo and it would have seen Dundalk have access to a ground in Dundalk for European games at least - Oriel could have served from LoI still to local junior land schoolboy leagues if wanting to keep some of the benefits of having yer own ground as there may not be bar facilities for example. (As an aside Louth GAA hurling, football, clubs and Dundalk RFC have all used for training Oriel in the past for nominal cost). Forgive the broken record on this but I find it hard that the broader scope and potential for what will be Louth's new ground was blocked by one local TD with a very very narrow agenda and how its allowed to happen - proactively obstructing other proposals that would have benefited som many more people. Louth barely break a couple of thousand at games including championship games never mind league Div 4 games and some county club finals have struggled to get over 1k with even plum finals with bigger clubs would be 3-4k in what will be an initial 14k capacity ground and with future expansion to 22k. Frustrating in its short sightedness. When Fitzpatrick was asked about Dundalk using the ground he 'promised' that as Louth GAA chairman he would ensure Dundalk FC would the use as needed - I dont know when he became a higher authority than GAA Congress and when that was said to him he scarpered and this when he was campaigning outside Oriel Park on a match night.....

(rant over;))

[Nesta99]

Dundalk seem to have an medium term arrangement with local junior club Quay Celtic (excellent grass pitch) for training for away games, while the grass pitch behind the carrick road goal has its 'seasonal challenges'. DFC used this for prep for most of the EL group games and they have been training most of this week there.

Always good to see junior clubs forge links with senior clubs, and I`m sure DFC will be only too happy to offer them the YDC for winter training / gym work etc.

I hadnt heard that and its no harm to be more visible in the town and a few € in to a local junior club. Its very open though at Quay Celtic so I hope there is no secret set piece work being down and spies dispatched:D. I thought Hiney Park had drainage work done a number of years back before Gerry Matthews had to sell it and its at a higher point of the Flurry Glen in general. Although with the flooding that happens on the Ardee Rd I suppose any amount of drainage could be overwhelmed at times. I dont recall the Grammar pitches too get too heavy or flooding and they'd be much lower.

(A quick question Oriel, did Dundalk FC draw another Dundalk club in the FAI Cup years ago do you recall or was it just a possibility with the Quay(?) qualifying one year, there were some very good local junior clubs 80s/90s).

[Dalymountrower]

Bank Rovers.

[nigel-harps1954]

I just had a look at Google maps. Are ye moving into the place with the blue running track and small astros?
Whatever about stadiums, it's great to see clubs with big plans in place or in progress; Roadstone, Dundalks YDC, Bohs-SKB-DCU, Cork-FAI new training facility, Galway Utd's Mountain South plans. Anyone have updates on Cork or Galway's progress?

That's the Finn Valley Centre. Home of Finn Valley AC. We do train there from time to time but it's not available readily and does cost to use. Would be ideal, but our own will be right behind the new stadium, down the same road.

[Nesta99]

Bank Rovers.

Thaks for that, didnt realise that it was so long ago as Id have guessed early to mid 90's at the earliest so feeling a bit old now lol. There may have been another junior club from the town that qualified for the cup as 1985 was about when I started following Dundalk and nagging my completely disinterested in sport parents to take me to gamesso I doubt I was that clued in to a possible cup derby then. (mention of Ashtown Villa still makes me wince!!) There's quite a few clubs like Bank Rovers that were traditionally good junior clubs in Dundalk that are now defunct.

[EalingGreen]

I watched Carrick Rangers play Glentoran on Friday Night, they're building a small terrace down the main stand side and looks like they've done some developments on the Bridge Side. The Terrace behind the goal is decent enough too. I wouldn't say its Crappy at all, there's worse in the IL.
Seems to be a bit more than terracing.

CARRICK RANGERS FC RECEIVE GREEN LIGHT FOR TWO NEW STANDS

Planning permission has been approved for two new stands at Carrick Rangers Football Club.

"The existing west stand at Taylor’s Avenue will be demolished to make way for a replacement which will be able to accommodate up to 568 fans.
There will also be provision for new changing rooms, toilets and first floor viewing lounge and educational and training rooms, turnstiles and security/media tower.
There will also be a new 635-seater east stand and repositioning of floodlights and fencing."


As for funding:

"Earlier this week, the Department for Communities (DfC) was urged to progress the distribution of funding earmarked for investment in football grounds in Northern Ireland which would contribute to finance for development of the new facilities at Carrick Rangers.

Mid and East Antrim Borough Council in association with Carrick Rangers, Larne FC and Ballymena United is bidding for £17m funding.

In 2015, the Northern Ireland Executive allocated £36m for a stadia funding programme for local football. Following the return of power-sharing at Stormont in January this year, the Executive stated its intention to complete the programme.

The three clubs recently submitted their responses to a DfC evidence-gathering survey on regional stadia facilities in Northern Ireland which aimed to identify strategic priorities for the development of soccer and on Tuesday a meeting took place with DfC officials to press for funding."
(Report of 11 September 2020: https://www.carrickfergustimes.co.uk/sport/football/irish-league-football/carrick-rangers-fc-receive-green-light-two-new-stands-2968440 )


Even for the three clubs combined, I'd say they haven't a hope of getting £17m, but maybe they mean a portion of the £17m left over after Glentoran get their (promised) £10m for The Oval and DCFC get something similar for The Brandywell, as previously rumoured? (My speculation)

[Charlie Darwin]

It would be no bother if instead of a community football club we were a far right hate group looking to undermine democracy.
Leave Termonbarry Alberts out of this.

[EatYerGreens]

Even for the three clubs combined, I'd say they haven't a hope of getting £17m, but maybe they mean a portion of the £17m left over after Glentoran get their (promised) £10m for The Oval and DCFC get something similar for The Brandywell, as previously rumoured? (My speculation)

You're hanging an awful lot of hope on an unofficial and unwritten agreement/carve up that was allegedly made between two senior politicians who are no longer involved in politics (and one of whom is dead). There is nothing to hold Stormont to what they did or didn't agree in what now feels like ancient history. The Oval's case will no doubt have to stand or fall on its own merits viz-a-viz all the other applications. With only £36m (?) to go round, giving just one club almost a third of that could prove problematic.

[littlebray]

... did Dundalk FC draw another Dundalk club in the FAI Cup years ago (?)


Bank Rovers.

What year was that, DR? All I can find is 1922/3 Qualifying, but it wasn't Dundalk FC then (and my data is still incomplete!):
FAIC 1922/3 1st QR
Dundalk United v Dundalk GNR (25 Nov)
2nd QR
Dundalk Town 0-8 Dundalk GNR (09 Dec)
3rd QR
Drogheda United lost to Dundalk GNR (16 Dec)
4th Qualifying Round (30 Dec):
Dundalk GNR 0-1 Bray Unknowns Q
[Carroll]

[Dalymountrower]

Was in the early/ mid 80's, as far as I can remember.

[Dalymountrower]

Was in the early/ mid 80's, as far as I can remember.

My faulty memory , Bank Rovers played Cork City away n the FAI cup in 1985.They got shafted by Cork on the gate receipts, quelle surprise.Thought they had a home fixture v Dundalk, but am clearly losing it!

[Nesta99]

Yeah, must have been more hoped that it would be Dundalk v Bank Rovers drawn which had memory morphed over time and it was actually Cork that Bank got, I was 6 or 7 at the time so thats my excuse. I still think thats too long ago so was there another Dundalk based Junior/Inter side that were in the cup draw? Id love to hear more on the gate receipts incident!!

[Dalymountrower]

Yeah, must have been more hoped that it would be Dundalk v Bank Rovers drawn which had memory morphed over time and it was actually Cork that Bank got, I was 6 or 7 at the time so thats my excuse. I still think thats too long ago so was there another Dundalk based Junior/Inter side that were in the cup draw? Id love to hear more on the gate receipts incident!!
Usual stuff, non -league team bring 1500 down to game and get a % of that rather than the actual crowd.A lot of shenanigans around divvying up FAI gate money at the time ( still ?) with the FAI and home clubs usually shafting the unwary.

[punkrocket]

Mid and East Antrim BC are the supercouncil formed from the merger of Larne Carrickfergus and Ballymena Borough Councils a few years back.
I wish that Causeway Coast and Glens were as proactive, Coleraine and the 2 Uniteds; Limavady and Ballymoney could do with a bit of work on their grounds.

[littlebray]

My faulty memory , Bank Rovers played Cork City away n the FAI cup in 1985.They got shafted by Cork on the gate receipts, quelle surprise.Thought they had a home fixture v Dundalk, but am clearly losing it!

Bank were a strong FAIIC team in the 1980s and played in what is usually called the Cup "proper" in three seasons, their opponents being Waterford (1983/4 at OP, lost 0-5), Cork City (1984/5 away, lost 2-0), Bohemians (1986/7 at OP, lost 1-2).

(Time to stop this one, way off topic!)

[EalingGreen]

Mid and East Antrim BC are the supercouncil formed from the merger of Larne Carrickfergus and Ballymena Borough Councils a few years back.
I wish that Causeway Coast and Glens were as proactive, Coleraine and the 2 Uniteds; Limavady and Ballymoney could do with a bit of work on their grounds.
Afaik Coleraine had been thinking of moving to a new ground in the town a while back (existing ground has development value?), but have since decided to stay and redevelop the Showgrounds.

They made an announcement his time last year, in anticipation of Stormont re-opening and the Sub-Regional funding being made available (though the various parties at Stormont seem to have been scratching their arse instead of sorting it):

https://colerainefc.com/redevelopment-project/

Some more details from 2019 here, though obviously all put on hold due to Covid etc:
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/sport/football/northern-ireland/coleraine-reveal-ambitious-plans-redevelop-showgrounds-home-922688

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/images-o.jpimedia.uk/imagefetch/http://www.newsletter.co.uk/webimage/Prestige.Item.1.118481016!image/image.jpg?crop=982:736,smart&width=990

[punkrocket]

Yes, I'd heard about that. The idea floating around a few years ago was to build a stadium at the council owned Rugby Avenue pitches which isn't too far away from the Showgrounds and just across the road from the rugby club. The Showgrounds are owned by the North Derry Agricultural Society but Coleraine have been on site for ever. I don't know how much support the council would give to a facility not owned by them although MEA don't own Inver Park in Larne or Taylors Avenue in Carrick either. Rugby Avenue would have been a lot more accessible than the Showgrounds in terms of parking etc. although if anyone ever gets the train to matches The Showgrounds is about 5 minutes walk as long as you don't have to wait too long for the barrier to go up.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

My faulty memory , Bank Rovers played Cork City away n the FAI cup in 1985.They got shafted by Cork on the gate receipts, quelle surprise.Thought they had a home fixture v Dundalk, but am clearly losing it!

Nice to hear of someone screwing the bank for once rather then the other way around

[oriel]

Bank were a strong FAIIC team in the 1980s and played in what is usually called the Cup "proper" in three seasons, their opponents being Waterford (1983/4 at OP, lost 0-5), Cork City (1984/5 away, lost 2-0), Bohemians (1986/7 at OP, lost 1-2).

(Time to stop this one, way off topic!)

For anyone interested, Bank Rovers were run by the two characters who do Dundalk FM now, John Murphy and Gussie Hearty, both played for DFC, John was league winning captain in 1963, featuring the legend Jimmy Hasty, what all of this has to do with Stadium Updates, I have no idea !!!!!

[oriel]

I hadnt heard that and its no harm to be more visible in the town and a few € in to a local junior club. Its very open though at Quay Celtic so I hope there is no secret set piece work being down and spies dispatched:D. I thought Hiney Park had drainage work done a number of years back before Gerry Matthews had to sell it and its at a higher point of the Flurry Glen in general. Although with the flooding that happens on the Ardee Rd I suppose any amount of drainage could be overwhelmed at times. I dont recall the Grammar pitches too get too heavy or flooding and they'd be much lower.

(A quick question Oriel, did Dundalk FC draw another Dundalk club in the FAI Cup years ago do you recall or was it just a possibility with the Quay(?) qualifying one year, there were some very good local junior clubs 80s/90s).

Sorry missed this, yes it was Def Bank Rovers who played Cork mid 80's. On the grass pitch DFC use for away game training, def seems to be only in good shape say April - Oct. Usually its fine as the LOI season normally ends late Oct, obv not last year, then EL group games thrown in, just in time for the grass pitch to start its seasonal issues !

[Nesta99]

Bank were a strong FAIIC team in the 1980s and played in what is usually called the Cup "proper" in three seasons, their opponents being Waterford (1983/4 at OP, lost 0-5), Cork City (1984/5 away, lost 2-0), Bohemians (1986/7 at OP, lost 1-2).

(Time to stop this one, way off topic!)

86/87 and game in Oriel fits better with the memory, so thanks for that and yup apologies for pulling things off topic!

[Nesta99]

Unlikely to actually happen which will be a real shame considering the club is currently relatively flush, but Dundalk Grammar School are looking to sell all their land bank beside and to the back of Oriel Park. If there is any ambition to properly do something with Oriel this is a one off chance before it becomes landlocked by housing.

https://www.louthcoco.ie/en/publications/development-plans/draft-louth-county-development-plan-2021-2027/212-submission-web.pdf

[sbgawa]

Cant see wild Bill paying residential development land prices for training pitches/ car parking.
If it does happen and it was anyway decent would you consider playing there and use Oriel for training.
20 Friday nights a year might be something that could be worked out with the School.

[Bucket]

Are the plans for the 5k capacity athletics ground available to see anywhere?

[Nesta99]

If only running tracks were 600m instead of 400, and it wouldnt be such a narrow type pitch. There have yet to be any architects rendition of what the school is planning, whether it would be suitable for LoI, i doubt it. It's likely to be bleacher type seating ala US High Schools. It is to be a self funded development so why the school will want to maximise their land asset with rezoning but if there was contribution from elsewhere the top end value of the land wouldnt be the be all and end all. Even if it was rezoned and DFC were willing to dip the toes in well it would be an asset for the club as Hiney Park was and it helped save the club in the past. Its in an ideal world that the club would show interest but even in the normal world of Bill, buying such land adds to the value of the club and can be sold again if their long term plans dont pan out. What would be a pain is if (by some miracle on current form) we spent the next 3 years in European groups, got a wad of money but the ship has sailed in terms of improving Oriel properly. How much would a greenfield site cost to develop in the long run compared to shorter term hedging bets by acquiring land with a view to building a stand behind the Carrick end, never mind not having to rent training pitches or looking for places to accommodate underage, womens teams etc. There is more that makes sense to taking this opportunity than against, even if it meant borrowing initially. But the estimated cost is about half of this years EL earnings. There are issues with the Oriel footprint crossing potentially Casey Trust land and land that would be owned directly by DFC but that isnt an insurmountable obstacle.

I would certainly be happy to use the schools facility if it was suitable. It would have all the benefits of location that Oriel has which is seen as very important. I happen to have grown up in the street to the immediate north of this new project and was at the school too so home from home for me. It is probably more likely that Oriel will basically stay the same, continue in use for domestic games, and Dublin venues rented for Europe. Path of least (financial) resistance. But with WC bids, regional development designation, border area with new Peace Plus project inc Brexit impact focus, Dundalk FC, over the medium term could and should make Oriel an important modern amenity hub. The Furry Glen where this land is being sold is already widely used by runners and could be enhanced as a recreational space. I would even suggest that part of it could be developed for housing to offset significant cost. If there is a bidding war on this patch of dirt then yeah it could push it out of the 'no brainer' area.

[Longfordian]

Harps allocated almost €4m by the government for their new stadium. Along with the Champions League money that should be a great boost. Fair play.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/667fb-provisional-allocation-of-3991m-for-finn-harps-stadium/

[sbgawa]

This is fantastic. Over the moon.
Just what football in donegal needs. This could be huge for harps beyond just the stadium itself

[Longfordian]

I'm no FF supporter but Jack Chambers seems to be willing to fund LOI football to a greater extent than many of his predecessors.

[Bucket]

April Fools!

[nigel-harps1954]

Still not entirely sure I'll believe it until I see a digger on site again..

[mcgonigle]

Still not entirely sure I'll believe it until I see a digger on site again..

Can you not just use the same one that's used to maintain the Finn Park pitch? 😉

[nigel-harps1954]

Can you not just use the same one that's used to maintain the Finn Park pitch? 

Apologies for not being able to maintain a surface as high quality as that of the concrete in Oriel Park.

[mcgonigle]

Apologies for not being able to maintain a surface as high quality as that of the concrete in Oriel Park.

Suits your lot just fine

[joey B]

Welcome news for us, cautious about getting too excited with it just yet until to we see work on site but hopefully it's the real deal!

[sbgawa]

Harps should look at raising the pitch like at old trafford (not a fan btw) with a drop off all around to help with drainage.
Any idea how long it wil take to get underway

[Real ale Madrid]

Harps allocated almost €4m by the government for their new stadium. Along with the Champions League money that should be a great boost. Fair play.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/667fb-provisional-allocation-of-3991m-for-finn-harps-stadium/

Do harps not have to come up with a matching number themselves to trigger release of this money?

[Bucket]

No not a matching figure but the "balance of the construction costs". You would imagine that they could complete the existing stand, fit it out internally, erect floodlights and lay the pitch, put in a carpark and landscaping. I'd doubt that would cost much more than €4m

[pineapple stu]

That's great news. If work started tomorrow (hypothetically), how long would it take until the ground could open? You're presumably still talking a year or so?

[Mr A]

Longer than that- the new pitch would take at least 18 months to bed in

[sbgawa]

Good to hear you talking Grass anyway

[Nesta99]

Great news (finally) for Harps. How are things with the balance of funding to draw down the €3.9mil, it used to be 20% but that could have changed. Be grand to move in in 2022 as League Champions!

*should aim for a hybrid pitch that has the benefits of grass but not needing constant maintenance.

[EatYerGreens]

No not a matching figure but the "balance of the construction costs". You would imagine that they could complete the existing stand, fit it out internally, erect floodlights and lay the pitch, put in a carpark and landscaping. I'd doubt that would cost much more than €4m

You'd be surprised how little you get out of construction money these days. Especially if it has to be publicly accounted for.

It's such a relatively small sum of money that you wonder why it took so long for it to be allocated.

What's the route to providing any extra money that's required ?

[redobit]

No not a matching figure but the "balance of the construction costs". You would imagine that they could complete the existing stand, fit it out internally, erect floodlights and lay the pitch, put in a carpark and landscaping. I'd doubt that would cost much more than €4m

You wont get much for 4 million these days. 4 floodlights alone be about half a million. About the same for a hybrid pitch. 6 million be a closer estimate for Harps id say.

[Nesta99]

Say 900k for the pitch and floodlights, Completing the stand and 2 small terrace ends at 2mil and the remaining for ground works, basic under stand facilities, could be eked out. The grant would be pretty much allocated so there'd be an idea of how far it'll go though any delays messes up costing. There doesnt have to be extensive and costly car parking eg functional gravel areas would do imo. Newer construction methods thats precast rather than poured concrete has cut costs for ground development though only with additional stands for this with a main san started There could be conditions where money is actually granted as the project meets certain points rather than the whole lump of money given up front even with the clubs own contribution? The important bit is that the money is now allocated and its up to club/builder to get cracking to get it drawn down. From what has been said previously here Harps have a schedule well in place. A concrete plastic pitch would only take weeks to install rather than wait 18months for grass even if building is done and ready to go - it could happen yet and plans have been revised before.

I know there were issues with Finn Park being in trust etc but the new development is no longer dependent the old ground generating money so if the sale of Finn Park could top up grant money it couldnt be that far off there being enough in the coffers to complete the more recent set of plans!? If its in any way an option.

[redarmyfaction]

I am not to sure about this piece , but I don't see it linked anywhere, so here it is. Quote about the Showgrounds 'The ground has three stands; all of which are quite dilapidated and seemingly outdated.'

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0401/1207484-grounds-for-redevelopment-modernising-loi-stadiums/