Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

[Mr A]

The Finn Harps stadium situation is a mess and it is a scandal, no doubt. It's horrible to see a half built modern stand dilapidating before our eyes. I'd also fear that it could be a bit of a case of "careful what you wish for" too with the new ground. A new magnificent mega stand costing between €6-7m will likely be the only thing ever built at the ground. It seems unlikely that Harps will be able to independently raise the money to build the two terraces and the other stand to run the other side of the pitch. If Harps get grants of around €6-7m, there'll probably be no likelihood of receiving more grants. Plus the likelihood is the capacity and facilities of the one stand will suffice and it will feel very flat as a ground. Apologies if I literally have all of that information wrong, which is very possible as an outsider.


There would be no more Dept of Sport grants but we could work with Donegal CC etc to further develop the ground.

[Kiki Balboa]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOaSfxPXkAczvfh.jpg

We are a disaster at building in this country. I really hope Dalymount gets built, and other regional projects too. But I will believe it when I see it.

[Nesta99]

I was told today that Horse and Dog racing have had investment worth €1 BILLION since 2001 due to the way taxation on gambling is distributed. Increased tax level and if possible that the money generated by a sport goes to the sport rather than the crazy level of money dished out to HRI, would put a dent in deficiency of football facilities. Now theres an angle to put to politicians in Donegal and elsewhere that could actually make a difference!

[Mr A]

They built a lovely dog track in Lifford.. that is now shut because nobody much went. It would make you weep.

[Northsider]

I was told today that Horse and Dog racing have had investment worth €1 BILLION since 2001 due to the way taxation on gambling is distributed. Increased tax level and if possible that the money generated by a sport goes to the sport rather than the crazy level of money dished out to HRI, would put a dent in deficiency of football facilities. Now theres an angle to put to politicians in Donegal and elsewhere that could actually make a difference!

I wonder how much of that gambling was done on football? Surely we are entitled to a slice of the pie?

[Bucket]

30-40% of gambling in Ireland is football. In 2001 when Charlie McGreevy wrote this bill into law the betting landscape was completely different, it was mostly horse and dog racing so the betting tax went to those sports. Law needs to change now to reflect people's betting habits.
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/6572789/fai-access-millions-year-horse-greyhound-fund/

[Nesta99]

I wonder how much of that gambling was done on football? Surely we are entitled to a slice of the pie?

Same thing crossed my mind and being daft I assumed that firstly that tax intake all goes in to one big pot to pay the bills, not ringfenced. Or at least the figures must have been taxation on gambling transactions directly on horse racing gambling. I also want to know how the GAA havent had a meltdown as they usually have a finger on the pulse when it comes to potential funding!?!?

[Nesta99]

30-40% of gambling in Ireland is football. In 2001 when Charlie McGreevy wrote this bill into law the betting landscape was completely different, it was mostly horse and dog racing so the betting tax went to those sports. Law needs to change now to reflect people's betting habits.
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/6572789/fai-access-millions-year-horse-greyhound-fund/

That must be where the info came from then so, though if I had known that it was from The Sun i'd have questioned the accuracy of figures initially - even over 20 years thats a lot of money invested and I dont see a whole lot of evidence of it. Nice facility in Dundalk and other egional facilities but nothing out of the ordinary, iirc a revamp The Curragh was costed around 100mil so where's the rest of it ....

[Bucket]

It's in the article. It goes towards prize money, which filters down to individual owners and stables. It's an important revenue for agro business and means a lot to rural Ireland. We're the third largest exporters of thoroughbreds in the world and the biggest exporters of horses.
The tax revenue should be divided based on how much is gambled on each sport, e.g., 35% football, 30% horse racing, 5% GAA, 2% Rugby, etc.

[sidewayspasser]

The article also suggests that a lot of that prize money is won by people who aren't tax resident here. So does it really filter down to Irish owners and stables, or to owners and stables all over the world? There's certainly better uses of taxpayers money than dishing it out to foreign horse owners as prize money.

[Nesta99]

Well to encourage elite race meets on these shores prizemoney needs to be good and irrespective of who the owner is. But the thought of government finances subsidising the prizemoney for the flipping Aga Khan or Sheik whomever doesnt sit well at all, it seem a bit dubious tbh. Delaney will be kicking himself for not spotting this opportunity sooner to shore up his FAI sideliners. It's a potentially least worse case solution to assisting different sports now out of this pot of tax, considering the alternatives. Bump it a couple of % too. Im am baffled by having missed this over the years myself - just think how much further on in development that Irish sport would be if distribution had been adjusted even a decade ago.

[Burnsie]

They built a lovely dog track in Lifford.. that is now shut because nobody much went. It would make you weep.

I bet you could stick a nice football pitch in the middle of it

[Bucket]

https://www.daft.ie/commercial-property-for-sale/lifford-greyhound-stadium-ballyduff-road-lifford-co-donegal/2854747

[wonder88]

That's an excellent facility that could be developed for a soccer club. I suppose the location in comparison to Ballybofey is the big drawback with it.
A personal view, but I see a great danger for Shelbourne in leaving Tolka and moving to Dalymount.

[bohsmug]

A personal view, but I see a great danger for Shelbourne in leaving Tolka and moving to Dalymount.

Agreed. I'm not sure what other options they have at the moment but I can see why their fans seem to be mostly against it.

[Martinho II]

Charlie McCreevy when he approved that bill 20 years ago he was into the horse racing wasnt he? Its a scandal that problem with the betting funding with horseracing was only raised now and not back then.

[EatYerGreens]

I bet you could stick a nice football pitch in the middle of it

Ballybofey's small enough as it is, without looking at somewhere barely a third of the size.

If Harps move anywhere it should be to Letterkenny, as that's where the population is.

[nigel-harps1954]

Ballybofey's small enough as it is, without looking at somewhere barely a third of the size.

If Harps move anywhere it should be to Letterkenny, as that's where the population is.

No. I'd stop supporting Harps if they moved to Letterkenny. And I'm from Letterkenny.

[Bucket]

Why would you stop supporting them?

[nigel-harps1954]

Why would you stop supporting them?

Completely uprooting the club from the Finn Valley area, moving 20km down the road, and effectively discarding the history of the club just to be closer to a bigger population. No thanks.

[Nesta99]

MK Harps has a decent ring to it. Its a tough one and divisive. If DkIT's project which was funded and supported by Louth's 2 LoI clubs, IRFU, Dept of Sport, LCC and GAA were just turning their heads before one of the local GAA TDs scuppered things due to the multi-use aspect of the project - but it would have involved compromise for all bar the GAA in terms of location as it was earmarked to build a campus off the M1 at Dunleer. It was to be CAT4 with upscaling room, the sports science department of DkIT with a media facility to be run by students in that area, and a significant part of the proposal was the reopening of Dunleer railway station. The population is heavily commuter based and is big enough to warrant a stop for commuter services. Car parking for the stadium would double as park and ride for commuters too which is badly needed when you see all the cars parked at off-ramps on the M1 Taking out the sentiment it was a well thought out plan in general with significant benefits to community and multiple organisations and no strings attached like 10000 housing units BS as part of it. In practical terms a minor inconvenience of 10-15 minutes travel.

Butttttt as Nigel has said even a short move out of a traditional home, irrespective of a state of the art facility, its hard to know how, in particular Dundalk and Drogheda fans would have embraced the move. Over time it would have been accepted. But in every sense it ticked boxes bar that sense of it not being 'home'. How would other feel, Rovers have most experience of this, Shels its pending, Limerick there are the different clubs that have been in Limerick, Cork too which would have involved fans transferring their support to another club. I can understand in a large county or significant moves but in Louth, 10-15k of a move, as the example above 20km - is it really time to quit if a clubs moves. Even just out of a spiritual home within the same town. People in Dundalk wouldnt want to move out of Oriel but was same was being said when the club moved out of the Athletic Grounds to Oriel and is long forgotten?

[Kiki Balboa]

MK Harps has a decent ring to it. Its a tough one and divisive. If DkIT's project which was funded and supported by Louth's 2 LoI clubs, IRFU, Dept of Sport, LCC and GAA were just turning their heads before one of the local GAA TDs scuppered things due to the multi-use aspect of the project - but it would have involved compromise for all bar the GAA in terms of location as it was earmarked to build a campus off the M1 at Dunleer. It was to be CAT4 with upscaling room, the sports science department of DkIT with a media facility to be run by students in that area, and a significant part of the proposal was the reopening of Dunleer railway station. The population is heavily commuter based and is big enough to warrant a stop for commuter services. Car parking for the stadium would double as park and ride for commuters too which is badly needed when you see all the cars parked at off-ramps on the M1 Taking out the sentiment it was a well thought out plan in general with significant benefits to community and multiple organisations and no strings attached like 10000 housing units BS as part of it. In practical terms a minor inconvenience of 10-15 minutes travel.

Butttttt as Nigel has said even a short move out of a traditional home, irrespective of a state of the art facility, its hard to know how, in particular Dundalk and Drogheda fans would have embraced the move. Over time it would have been accepted. But in every sense it ticked boxes bar that sense of it not being 'home'. How would other feel, Rovers have most experience of this, Shels its pending, Limerick there are the different clubs that have been in Limerick, Cork too which would have involved fans transferring their support to another club. I can understand in a large county or significant moves but in Louth, 10-15k of a move, as the example above 20km - is it really time to quit if a clubs moves. Even just out of a spiritual home within the same town. People in Dundalk wouldnt want to move out of Oriel but was same was being said when the club moved out of the Athletic Grounds to Oriel and is long forgotten?

Ah come off it now. Am I reading this wrong? Are you actually suggesting that Dundalk should move out of the town? To Dunleer? To groundshare with Drogheda...... In Dunleer .... That really has to be one of the most bizarre proposals I have read on any LOI site.

[John83]

I always enjoy reading how lifelong fans of a club are going to throw in the towel if they have to drive 10 km on a motorway (so, around 6 minutes) to a new ground. It takes longer to walk from Belfield Park to the Bowl - granted, not a change I welcomed, but not one I remotely considered the end of my attachment to the club.

[Yossarian]

Ah come off it now. Am I reading this wrong? Are you actually suggesting that Dundalk should move out of the town? To Dunleer? To groundshare with Drogheda...... In Dunleer .... That really has to be one of the most bizarre proposals I have read on any LOI site.

I agree 100%. Whatever about moving to a new ground within the town, moving to Dunleer would be the death knell for both Dundalk and Drogheda.

[Kiki Balboa]

I always enjoy reading how lifelong fans of a club are going to throw in the towel if they have to drive 10 km on a motorway (so, around 6 minutes) to a new ground. It takes longer to walk from Belfield Park to the Bowl - granted, not a change I welcomed, but not one I remotely considered the end of my attachment to the club.

Dalymount is only 45min drive from Drogheda, why dont Drogheda United and Bohs groundshare?

[pineapple stu]

Moving county to groundshare with another club 45 minutes away isn't remotely the same thing as moving 20 minutes away to the next town over in fairness.

[boynemunich]

I always enjoy reading how lifelong fans of a club are going to throw in the towel if they have to drive 10 km on a motorway (so, around 6 minutes) to a new ground. It takes longer to walk from Belfield Park to the Bowl - granted, not a change I welcomed, but not one I remotely considered the end of my attachment to the club.

What if said lifelong fan doesn't own a car ? Moving the likes of Dundalk or Drogheda out of their respective towns is a guaranteed club killer. Hard enough to get people in the gates when the grounds our in the town with surrounding pubs etc. It would completely ruin the match day experience regardless of the quality of stadium.

[Yossarian]

I always enjoy reading how lifelong fans of a club are going to throw in the towel if they have to drive 10 km on a motorway (so, around 6 minutes) to a new ground. It takes longer to walk from Belfield Park to the Bowl - granted, not a change I welcomed, but not one I remotely considered the end of my attachment to the club.

If UCD relocated to the DCU campus would you feel the same?

[boynemunich]

What if said lifelong fan doesn't own a car ? Moving the likes of Dundalk or Drogheda out of their respective towns is a guaranteed club killer. Hard enough to get people in the gates when the grounds our in the town with surrounding pubs etc. It would completely ruin the match day experience regardless of the quality of stadium.

On this funnily enough, Drogheda could move to Trabzon in Turkey and we would get a lot more at matches than we do in Drogheda.

[John83]

Dalymount is only 45min drive from Drogheda, why dont Drogheda United and Bohs groundshare?

If UCD relocated to the DCU campus would you feel the same?
Why don't we just move it to Cork? Anyone want to compare like with like? The move I was reacting to is like moving from Belfield to Rathfarnham in terms of travel time, which wouldn't matter a jot to me.


What if said lifelong fan doesn't own a car ? Moving the likes of Dundalk or Drogheda out of their respective towns is a guaranteed club killer. Hard enough to get people in the gates when the grounds our in the town with surrounding pubs etc. It would completely ruin the match day experience regardless of the quality of stadium.
Ah, so you're not so much a fan of the club as of getting ****-faced in the vicinity of a stadium. No friends? Or are they all alcoholics too? I pity clubs in this country, when the only ambition is to attract a small fraction of the people within walking distance of the ground.

[Longfordian]

Moving a few miles in Dublin is a different situation. There's nowhere near the same cultural ties to a particular part of the city as there is with a country town. If Longford Town moved to..shudder...Granard or Edgeworthstown it wouldn't be the same club with the same history and tradition within the town of Longford.

[John83]

Then you're always going to be small beans.

[bohsmug]

Ah, so you're not so much a fan of the club as of getting ****-faced in the vicinity of a stadium. No friends? Or are they all alcoholics too? I pity clubs in this country, when the only ambition is to attract a small fraction of the people within walking distance of the ground.

Some level of hysteria going on here :-D

[Longfordian]

In the grand scheme of things we always will be small beans, yes. Look at the population of Longford county. We're only still in the LOI due to various benefactors. But we'll have a crack at it while we're here.

[Yossarian]

Why don't we just move it to Cork? Anyone want to compare like with like? The move I was reacting to is like moving from Belfield to Rathfarnham in terms of travel time, which wouldn't matter a jot to me

Well moving from UCD to Rathfarnham is distance of about 3km in a city with far more transport options than most parts of the country, whereas Dundalk to Dunleer is about 20km, which would be the equivalent of UCD moving to Greystones, would that matter a jot to you?

[Nesta99]

Ah come off it now. Am I reading this wrong? Are you actually suggesting that Dundalk should move out of the town? To Dunleer? To groundshare with Drogheda...... In Dunleer .... That really has to be one of the most bizarre proposals I have read on any LOI site.

Yes and no! I've posed a question on a proposal that wasnt far off becoming reality and had respective clubs' support. It all makes sense in terms of the plan in principle - BUUUUUTTT it doesnt take in to consideration the attachment that fans have to a home or the relevance of having a club at the core of its community. Is sentiment enough of a reason to not support a move to an expected level of spectator facility? Im genuinely interested in opinions. Cat 5 stadium, state of the art, 15 minutes from current base and not going to cost the 10s of millions of Euro to the clubs. So playing Arsenal and the like at (close to) 'home'.

If Peak 6 decided to move out of Oriel to a greenfield site outside the town but within easy access and serviced by public transport etc, spent 20mil on the job, Dundalk fans would quit? Likewise for Drogheda (or any fans in such a situation). Whether I personally would have agreed or disagreed with such a plan is not important. I have the upmost respect for how SRFC fans faced these issues, annual moves, and settled outside their spiritual home and area - pragmatic probably as a least worst solution but a move to Tallaght hasnt killed the club or its history!

[Kiki Balboa]

Yes and no! I've posed a question on a proposal that wasnt far off becoming reality and had respective clubs' support. It all makes sense in terms of the plan in principle - BUUUUUTTT it doesnt take in to consideration the attachment that fans have to a home or the relevance of having a club at the core of its community. Is sentiment enough of a reason to not support a move to an expected level of spectator facility? Im genuinely interested in opinions. Cat 5 stadium, state of the art, 15 minutes from current base and not going to cost the 10s of millions of Euro to the clubs. So playing Arsenal and the like at (close to) 'home'.

If Peak 6 decided to move out of Oriel to a greenfield site outside the town but within easy access and serviced by public transport etc, spent 20mil on the job, Dundalk fans would quit? Likewise for Drogheda (or any fans in such a situation). Whether I personally would have agreed or disagreed with such a plan is not important. I have the upmost respect for how SRFC fans faced these issues, annual moves, and settled outside their spiritual home and area - pragmatic probably as a least worst solution but a move to Tallaght hasnt killed the club or its history!

But there is a difference with a stadium on the outskirts of the town (just like Droghedas proposed stadium), and relocating the club to another town.

(Just as an FYI to those on the outside, Louth is as divided county as it gets between north and south. So much so, that it being the smallest county, has two separate schoolboy leagues)

[Nesta99]

What if said lifelong fan doesn't own a car ? Moving the likes of Dundalk or Drogheda out of their respective towns is a guaranteed club killer. Hard enough to get people in the gates when the grounds our in the town with surrounding pubs etc. It would completely ruin the match day experience regardless of the quality of stadium.

What if a lifelong fan no longer has the mobility to safely attend games in a restricted access stadium? The various plans for Drogheda all involved a move, certainly away from any surrounding pubs, if anything getting to these proposed places would have been easier access to significant sections of Drogheda's fan base - no half hour waiting in traffic from north or south through the town to get to an already congested vicinity of United Park. No mucky shoes from having to cross the pitch to leave. Its hardly as if people have been flocking to games in United Park in their thousands causing some 'if it aint broke dont fix it' thinking.

Devils advocate!

[sbgawa]

Rovers fans accepted Tallaght and have made the best of it but it was a generation after the exodus from Miltown and that move led to a fan boycott and many never came back.
25 years wondering around homeless meant Tallaght when it came was always going to be accepted as what was the alternative ...keep on moving around.
With property prices in south county dublin it was never going to be an option to relocate back into the area.
Again in hindsight with the young growing population in Tallaght the long run is probably better for rovers in tallaght but the club also so nearly went out of existance so moving is fraught in every way......

[boynemunich]

Ah, so you're not so much a fan of the club as of getting ****-faced in the vicinity of a stadium. No friends? Or are they all alcoholics too? I pity clubs in this country, when the only ambition is to attract a small fraction of the people within walking distance of the ground.

Haha jeheez, was just pointing out a positive of having a stadium in a urban area. God forbid any other businesses benefit from the club. You must be a big GAA fan ?

Anyways for anyone suggesting Drogheda and/or Dundalk should up sticks to Dunleer or any other club should do the equivalent there's a certain club in Milton Keynes I think yous would take a liking to.

[EatYerGreens]

What have I started ?! :eek:

[Nesta99]

What have I started ?! :eek:

Well I threw the oil on the fire - discussion and reasoned opinion Id have hoped!

Genuinely not stirring above! But it seems a bit damned if ye do damned if ye dont for clubs who want to have grounds worthy of the league. Is it a 'want a new ground but totally on my terms' so unreasonable expectations? What, if there is one, an alternative to redeveloping Oriel Park? I cant think of a suits all patch of land in the town. Where the County Ground is going would have been ideal imo but well away from the core of the town and that matchday tradition/

[bohsmug]

Honestly just think some modest but well appointed improvements would do for pretty much every ground. You need reasonable toilets and a covered stand for everybody. It looks as though the money that was promised for ground improvements up north is going to be released to clubs and ground improvements will become more evident up there. Maybe that will put pressure down here for something similar. Once construction behind the Church End in Larne is completed, both Crusaders and Larne will have small cantilever roofed stands behind each of their goals seating around 600 people each. To my eyes, they'd improve every ground we have here, with the exception of Tallaght and Turners Cross (well Longford would just need a roof behind each end).

LOI grounds would be perfect with one good main stand containing the necessary facilities, two small covered stands behind the goals and a fairly underdeveloped area on the camera side (think Camac in Inchicore) with a good gantry so it's all very presentable. That side only likely to be used for those one off big days like cup semis or whatever. Absolute pipe dream to think we'll get to that level but it seems like a more realistic pipe dream than the various big plans we've seen over the years. I have a Pats programme from about 2000 I think, they had plans for a two tier stand behind the goal. Bohs have had loads of plans, think I have some mad ones from a match programme in the 90's somewhere. The weirdest thing of all is that the Tallaght pipe dream of a 10k stadium is actually happening, albeit via the scenic route.

[John83]

Well moving from UCD to Rathfarnham is distance of about 3km in a city with far more transport options than most parts of the country, whereas Dundalk to Dunleer is about 20km, which would be the equivalent of UCD moving to Greystones, would that matter a jot to you?
Dundalk to Dunleer on google maps is a 14 minute trip. The Belfield Bowl to Greystones is 30, and that's not allowing for rush hour traffic which is rather worse on the latter route. Apples and oranges. Also, no, it would not bother me: I regularly go there.


Haha jeheez, was just pointing out a positive of having a stadium in a urban area. God forbid any other businesses benefit from the club. You must be a big GAA fan ?
Yeah, that's all you were doing. :rofl: And no.


Anyways for anyone suggesting Drogheda and/or Dundalk should up sticks to Dunleer or any other club should do the equivalent there's a certain club in Milton Keynes I think yous would take a liking to.
MK Dons are 97 minutes travel from the Old Den. I have to laugh at the complete lack of perspective here. I've been asked to compare 30, 45, and 97 minute journeys to ... drum roll ... 14 minutes. You know, the length of time most people are willing to travel to walk to the bus stop.

[Bucket]

The Old Den was Millwall not Wimbledon

[Nesta99]

As Plough Lane has kinda been referred to, it has just 'opened', less than 20 years from a new supporter owned club to playing in the same division as MK Dons and managing to build a new ground a stones throw from the original is impressive stuff.

[bohsmug]

Would make sense if, as a cohort, the importance of location was amplified among League of Ireland fans. Given that we're very much in the minority of football fans in the country who have chosen one of the worst leagues in Europe to support based on it being our own local league. In saying that, match-going fans rarely seem to want their grounds to move. Think Bohs moving out to a greenfield site near the airport could have been a death knell. Even though I was in favour of it at the time.

[bohsmug]

As Plough Lane has kinda been referred to, it has just 'opened', less than 20 years from a new supporter owned club to playing in the same division as MK Dons and managing to build a new ground a stones throw from the original is impressive stuff.

It looks an absolutely wonderful ground. I'm definitely going to go over and have a look whenever it's allowed. Copa90 have a good 30 minute documentary about plough lane on youtube and Wimbledon have loads of great videos of the new ground.

[pineapple stu]

In saying that, match-going fans rarely seem to want their grounds to move.
It's the same the world over alright. Yet when it comes down to it, provided the move isn't MK Dons daft, most fans to move across with the ground. What's the alternative?

[bohsmug]

I think you're just supposed to keep going and bang on about the old ground until you die.