Stadium Updates (All Clubs)

[sbgawa]

Would be wrong to be in any way critical of the Council considering what they are doing right now but i agree when the dust settles in say 2 years time a proposal for safe standing corners either side of the South stand to block the wind and increase capacity would be a great final addition and standing areas by their nature tend to increase capacity disproportionately than seats.

[EatYerGreens]

Yeah probably for the new stadium in Letterkenny!

Forza Letterkenny Harps ! :cool:

[EatYerGreens]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-31004924.html

There’s a couple of artist impressions in article above. Looks a bit steeper and looks like it will run into the back wall so it’s accessible similar to the way the West stand is.

I was only moaning about the lack of bike stands the other day so glad to see they’re going to be included in the development too.

Great work by SDCC. The only downside is it's a shame that all 4 stands at the ground will look noticeably different. But that's a small price to pay for what will be the league's best and most complete stadium.

[Glen Of Aherlow]

Great work by SDCC. The only downside is it's a shame that all 4 stands at the ground will look noticeably different. But that's a small price to pay for what will be the league's best and most complete stadium.

Every other club in the league could live with that kind of downside

[Mr A]

I hate stadia that are too boring and regular TBH

[Nesta99]

Great work by SDCC. The only downside is it's a shame that all 4 stands at the ground will look noticeably different. But that's a small price to pay for what will be the league's best and most complete stadium.

Theres a wee bit of that still in the EPL, Vicerage Rd, Anfield and Old Trafford arent all nice and neat. Some people might be interested in this slightly dated article, I know Sky money made a huge difference to implementing the Taylor Report but still a bit mad to see the transformation on a huge scale across the 2 English top tiers in what was a pretty short period of time, with some clubs getting an original ground transformed and then to new superstadia since. https://talksport.com/football/257833/what-every-top-flight-clubs-stadium-looked-when-premier-league-kicked-25-years-ago-and-how/

[joey B]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TonyPadila1/status/1537193683916886016

Interesting thread on stadiums in Slovakia,we’re miles behind….

[EatYerGreens]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TonyPadila1/status/1537193683916886016

Interesting thread on stadiums in Slovakia,we’re miles behind….

Slovakia is just a bit bigger than ROI population wise (5.4m v 4.9m), and a lot smaller than the island of Ireland's population (7m). Crazy how many good stadiums they have over there, and how many rubbish ones there are here on both sides of the border.

That last stadiusm on the list - Presove ? - will be a thing of absolute beauty if it gets built. The floodlights are amazing on their own.

[joey B]

Slovakia is just a bit bigger than ROI population wise (5.4m v 4.9m), and a lot smaller than the island of Ireland's population (7m). Crazy how many good stadiums they have over there, and how many rubbish ones there are here on both sides of the border.

That last stadiusm on the list - Presove ? - will be a thing of absolute beauty if it gets built. The floodlights are amazing on their own.


Yeah the difference is pretty crazy,I’d say if you took out Slovan Bratislava’s attendances we’d compare pretty favourably in that regard aswell…

[EatYerGreens]

Yeah the difference is pretty crazy,I’d say if you took out Slovan Bratislava’s attendances we’d compare pretty favourably in that regard aswell…

Here's their average attendances at all top tier clubs in 2021-22 : Attendances Slovakia average (european-football-statistics.co.uk) (http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/avesvk.htm#:~:text=The%20attendances%20are%20pre-COVID-19.%20During%20COVID-19%20the%20league,total%20attendance%20of%2035.125 %2C%20an%20average%20of%201.171.)

2 clubs with great attendances by LOI standards, 6 with very average ones, and 4 with fairly rubbish crowds. Overall league average of only 2,500.

Definitely a league that we should aim to be bettering on and off the pitch over the next decade

[Nesta99]

Slovakia is just a bit bigger than ROI population wise (5.4m v 4.9m), and a lot smaller than the island of Ireland's population (7m). Crazy how many good stadiums they have over there, and how many rubbish ones there are here on both sides of the border.

That last stadiusm on the list - Presove ? - will be a thing of absolute beauty if it gets built. The floodlights are amazing on their own.


They'd suit New Oriel nicely!

[CorribsideSteve]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TonyPadila1/status/1537193683916886016

Interesting thread on stadiums in Slovakia,we’re miles behind….
Beautiful stadiums there. It'd make you sick though. Is there another UEFA nation that has so utterly and blatantly disregarded it's own league and infrastructure to the extent that the FAI has?

[nr637]

This may have been added before but just came across this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkiD-oUXDQ.
Looks like Tallaght is the only work that is happening!

[Straightstory]

Yes - again, fair play to Rovers. Everything else is complete fantasy unfortunately.

[D24Saint]

This may have been added before but just came across this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkiD-oUXDQ.
Looks like Tallaght is the only work that is happening!

Nearly more annoying watching videos like that. Its amazing what's possible. All of them projects would have improved their areas with better facilities.

[2 Year Contract]

Yes - again, fair play to Rovers.

For the council building a new stand in their own stadium?

[placid casual]

For Shamrock Rovers showing ambition and drive to embedd themselves in tallaght to such an extent that SDCC see it as a win win to develop tallaght stadium as a venue.

[sbgawa]

For the council building a new stand in their own stadium?


People always overlook that Rovers started the development in terms of getting the land and starting the build.
Also the Rovers board got the money for the development of the east stand directly from the Government not SDCC.
If memory serves me right it was something to do with EU sports development funding.....i could be totally miss remembering on the source there but it definitely wasn't SDCC

SDCC deserve huge credit obviously for building it but the Rovers board were a massive part of the success and if they hadnt kicked it off and got the money for the East stand subsequently id say the idea of "finishing it" wouldn't have got much traction.

I wasn't personally any part of that process but the people who were shouldn't be forgotten..........and aren't by Rovers Supporters

[Philosophizer]

All valid points above - on both sides.
Also worth mentioning that sdcc have made Tallaght the home of the mens u21s and underage teams and the women's team too. The womens game in particular has become v popular recently. I'm sure that's helped their access to funding to further the stadium development.

[Nesta99]

All valid points above - on both sides.
Also worth mentioning that sdcc have made Tallaght the home of the mens u21s and underage teams and the women's team too. The womens game in particular has become v popular recently. I'm sure that's helped their access to funding to further the stadium development.

This is it, it was a very astute strategic decision by SDCC to take on this project. Magnificent foresight and somebody really knows what makes the Dept of Sport tick. It took an initial punt by SDCC to take over what had become derelict site and 'social' hangout for some of the most excluded people in society, get what was already built back to a state where it could be finished and incrementally add to the stadium. At this stage it is probably well on to paying for itself and SDCC probably have had fairly minimal direct financial outlay for the last 2 stands as funding for women's sport and multi sport facilities getting targeted funding from central govt. Having underage RoI and SRFC sides would have been a help. It was identified that there was nothing below 60-80k stadia that were up to scratch and a medium sized stadium was badly needed. GAA need modern medium ground in Dublin so Parnell Park will probably get a wedge of funding soon enough.

The original funding and start of building a stand at Tallaght was via a sports capital grant to Rovers, definitely nothing to do with SDCC except the planning process. Im not sure about EU money, I dont recall a particular fund that could be tapped in to at that time bar Peace 1 & 2 but ye never know. There were a lot of questions asked at that time about where grants were spent in relation to progress of the development. A difficult and worrying time for Rovers as a club in general, more than losing Milltown even, but hung on. Dodged a few bullets when trying to find a way to raise money to complete the stand with a few proposed business deals that were a bit meh (Ben Dunne being one iirc)! Alls well that ends well with how SDCC stepped in for the benefit of their community and werent bullied by GAA types and threats of judicial hearings. It was close enough to 20 years between planning, turning the first sod and opening the ground?


For Shamrock Rovers showing ambition and drive to embedd themselves in tallaght to such an extent that SDCC see it as a win win to develop tallaght stadium as a venue.

Thats how it panned out and embraced by SDCC but it was a decision that was rooted in pragmatism. The site was a serious problem, there were multiple revised plans suggested and maybe submitted to SDCC that would contravene the local development plan. I think one included retail and one of Dunnes gyms on one side, no seating, but the main stand completed. Eventually SDCC saw that they were the only people that could fix the mess. I'm sure that there were people from Rovers putting the merits to SDCC and the elected body to give it the go ahead and thats where there is real credit due - a hard sell when it could have been ordered to level the shell of the stand and revoke any landlease type agreements. (That could have been a stumbling block with some of the potential proposals - did SDCC originally provide the site for a nominal fee or long term lease that some developers then put their eye on to get it cheap by pretending that they had the ground and club at heart and not what they would gain?).

[Calcio Jack]

People always overlook that Rovers started the development in terms of getting the land and starting the build.
Also the Rovers board got the money for the development of the east stand directly from the Government not SDCC.
If memory serves me right it was something to do with EU sports development funding.....i could be totally miss remembering on the source there but it definitely wasn't SDCC

SDCC deserve huge credit obviously for building it but the Rovers board were a massive part of the success and if they hadnt kicked it off and got the money for the East stand subsequently id say the idea of "finishing it" wouldn't have got much traction.

I wasn't personally any part of that process but the people who were shouldn't be forgotten..........and aren't by Rovers Supporters

Most of those ‘involved’ at board level in the early days of Tallaght development deserve nothing but contempt for the manner in which they almost destroyed us…were you not there at the meeting with the last board before the Members took over ? When the MD claimed at at the meeting that he had a contract etc. agreed with the SDCC to complete the stadium and waived a letter à la Chamberlain at the crowd….. a member called him out and said read out the contents… he refused until finally the bluff was called as there was no contract….that meeting was the catalyst that lead to them ‘walking away’..We were lucky to then survive the examinership ; the great support from then Minister O’Donoghue to support and exclude the GAA ( despite him being a Kerryman !!) And the rest is history…. So please never ever heap any praise on those who tried to destroy us from within

[Buller]

Alls well that ends well with how SDCC stepped in for the benefit of their community and werent bullied by GAA types and threats of judicial hearings. It was close enough to 20 years between planning, turning the first sod and opening the ground?


Sorry to cherrypick this out of your post but the SDCC actually did cave to pressure from the GAA. Thomas Davis (GAA) threatened judicial review and to avoid that the SDCC planned to turn it into "Tallaght Municipal stadium", with a much reduced capacity due to the massive gah pitch. An East stand wouldn't have been possible in the plans submitted.
Sports Minister O'Donoghue saved the project by saying the money was earmarked for soccer infrastructure. My favourite quote from him was the "GAA wont get in there until hell freezes over".

So the GAA went judicial court route which delayed the project by 2 years. Sound bunch of lads. Obviously don't have too much faith in their sport if they have to resort to that; couldn't stomach a purpose built soccer stadium in south Dublin.

[kksaints]

Sorry to cherrypick this out of your post but the SDCC actually did cave to pressure from the GAA. Thomas Davis (GAA) threatened judicial review and to avoid that the SDCC planned to turn it into "Tallaght Municipal stadium", with a much reduced capacity due to the massive gah pitch. An East stand wouldn't have been possible in the plans submitted.
Sports Minister O'Donoghue saved the project by saying the money was earmarked for soccer infrastructure. My favourite quote from him was the "GAA wont get in there until hell freezes over".

So the GAA went judicial court route which delayed the project by 2 years. Sound bunch of lads. Obviously don't have too much faith in their sport if they have to resort to that; couldn't stomach a purpose built soccer stadium in south Dublin.

Didn't that turn out to be a disaster for Thomas Davis? They almost went bust if I remember correctly, only recovered a few years ago when they reached the Dublin final.

[Calcio Jack]

Sorry to cherrypick this out of your post but the SDCC actually did cave to pressure from the GAA. Thomas Davis (GAA) threatened judicial review and to avoid that the SDCC planned to turn it into "Tallaght Municipal stadium", with a much reduced capacity due to the massive gah pitch. An East stand wouldn't have been possible in the plans submitted.
Sports Minister O'Donoghue saved the project by saying the money was earmarked for soccer infrastructure. My favourite quote from him was the "GAA wont get in there until hell freezes over".

So the GAA went judicial court route which delayed the project by 2 years. Sound bunch of lads. Obviously don't have too much faith in their sport if they have to resort to that; couldn't stomach a purpose built soccer stadium in south Dublin.

It was the Thomas Davis club that sought and lost the Judicial Review- and incurred a few hundred thousand in legal costs as part of their infamous ‘last man standing’ challenge

[Nesta99]

Sorry to cherrypick this out of your post but the SDCC actually did cave to pressure from the GAA. Thomas Davis (GAA) threatened judicial review and to avoid that the SDCC planned to turn it into "Tallaght Municipal stadium", with a much reduced capacity due to the massive gah pitch. An East stand wouldn't have been possible in the plans submitted.
Sports Minister O'Donoghue saved the project by saying the money was earmarked for soccer infrastructure. My favourite quote from him was the "GAA wont get in there until hell freezes over".

So the GAA went judicial court route which delayed the project by 2 years. Sound bunch of lads. Obviously don't have too much faith in their sport if they have to resort to that; couldn't stomach a purpose built soccer stadium in south Dublin.

Good to hear those old details, twas quite a while back and didnt realise that it was direct ministerial intervention rather than SDCC fronting up to the judicial review (was it on the planning application submitted by SDCC to get on with work that wasnt suitable for GAA, or was a challenge to funding Buller if ye recall?). It actually adds to how impressive it was for SDCC to get involved and stick with it considering the protracted complications to get work moving.

[Burnsie]

bit of a reach to keep it on-topic, but what the hell was the story with the two Slovakian randomers who played for Rovers v Real Madrid in the inaugural match? Looks like they were both on trial from FC Kosice. Peter Gál-Andrezly and Pavol Jurčo were their names. Seems a bit mad that a couple of proper Rovers players would be denied a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to play against Ronaldo, Raul, Benzema, Higuain etc

[SPXcyan]

Hi guys.

Tis probably my first linking anything on here before, forgive me if I am posting such a thing in the wrong place.

This chap from England has been roaming across the island of Ireland for a couple of weeks now and he has been uploading some fantastic content on league of Ireland stadiums and history as well as the Northern Irish clubs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n95UOa_8hFU&ab_channel=FootyAdventures

I'd suggest giving him a trial to see what you think as he really delves deep into the clubs that he focuses on whilst also attending some games, including the Derry v Riga game.

[redarmyfaction]

Would the Thomas Davis have been horny handed sons of soil originally up in Dublin being civil servants and teachers and running pubs?

[Buller]

Good to hear those old details, twas quite a while back and didnt realise that it was direct ministerial intervention rather than SDCC fronting up to the judicial review (was it on the planning application submitted by SDCC to get on with work that wasnt suitable for GAA, or was a challenge to funding Buller if ye recall?). It actually adds to how impressive it was for SDCC to get involved and stick with it considering the protracted complications to get work moving.

Yeah I thought I'd almost erased it from my mind to be honest!! Thomas Davis sought court orders quashing the council's decision in 2006 to complete it as a soccer stadium when they took ownership of the site back from Rovers. The funding itself was from government for soccer/Rovers so they had no legal grounds there.

[sbgawa]

Most of those ‘involved’ at board level in the early days of Tallaght development deserve nothing but contempt for the manner in which they almost destroyed us…were you not there at the meeting with the last board before the Members took over ? When the MD claimed at at the meeting that he had a contract etc. agreed with the SDCC to complete the stadium and waived a letter à la Chamberlain at the crowd….. a member called him out and said read out the contents… he refused until finally the bluff was called as there was no contract….that meeting was the catalyst that lead to them ‘walking away’..We were lucky to then survive the examinership ; the great support from then Minister O’Donoghue to support and exclude the GAA ( despite him being a Kerryman !!) And the rest is history…. So please never ever heap any praise on those who tried to destroy us from within

Could have made my time lines clearer. I was talking about the members takeover board who delivered the stadium.. u are 100% right the old board were a disgrace. . We were blessed with the members board and thankfully a lot of them are still around

[Nesta99]

Yeah I thought I'd almost erased it from my mind to be honest!! Thomas Davis sought court orders quashing the council's decision in 2006 to complete it as a soccer stadium when they took ownership of the site back from Rovers. The funding itself was from government for soccer/Rovers so they had no legal grounds there.

I have a copy of minutes of meetings from about about then somewhere, If I ever find them they'd probably be of interest to Rovers or a club historian. Open minutes would be public record but Im pretty sure closed minutes are attached - enough time passed not to be still classed as closed, names could be redacted in any case. I know I asked the question above, but trying to prompt the memory without mixing things up and I vaguely recall TD CLG arguing that if funding came from the public purse that they should be in the mix. That was countered with them being told that they were quite welcome to use Tallaght Stadium...for soccer, or small sided Gaelic Games if they wanted, but for rent.The reason Croke Park weren't very vocally standing behind their club side was due to it being suggested that they may not want to establish a precedent of insisting that publicly funded facilities must be available to all sports going forward and so maybe capital funding might be a tad harder to come by.

This was all happening when Rule 42 was up for discussion and Croke Park to host games in a Euro '08 bid (using Croker while Landsdowne was being rebuilt actually came after even though soccer and rugby internationals were before 2008 Euros if the bid had worked). There was no shortage of back corridor negotiations at the time and promised financial sweeteners - tis why im a bit surprised at Ministerial backing of the Tallaght plan as it could, and tbh I d have thought would have been part of the Croker dealings. I have a new found respect for O'Donaghue who Id have ranked previously along side Shane Ross for 'effectiveness'.

All history I know and I do jest occasionally at Rover being the lucky club but in the context of the whole examinership stuff, that the stadium plans were botched by the club, unusual finances, but steadied the ship and kept the anchor tenancy in Tallaght, considering the wranglings with the GAA, well it was lucky and that is with also acknowledging the members board's graft.

It's not as complex as Stranrolar, mainly as there isnt a suggestion (I think) of grant money being used creatively there, but there are some similarities and why i can be a bit like a dog with a bone on that project. (what a typo 'dong with a bone', that'd get one in trouble these days)

[Buller]

Oh very interesting. I'd be eager to get my eyes on that sometime if you do find it. Stuff definitely went on behind closed doors which I'm probably not aware of!
O'Donaghue's vision for LOI in Dublin was two 10,000 seater stadiums with ground shares either side of the Liffey - he was instrumental in SDCC changing course after being pressured into plan making it a much smaller venue with a gaelic pitch.
He himself definitely saw it as soccer specific infrastructure funds and that the GAA had received more than there fair share of government funding at the time.

[ontheotherhand]

The Rovers podcast did a very good two part special on the stadium saga from the perspective of the Rover's fans who were heavily involved in it all. It's a great listen. "Given a stadium" always makes me laugh. If a few other clubs put half as much money and effort into their own grounds we'd be hosting international tournaments at this point.....or at least have decent toilets in grounds.

[Nesta99]

There were a couple of rival LoI fans that went batting for Rovers in the Tallaght saga, the irony of there not even being an opportunity to do the same in the home county isnt missed. Rovers people worked tirelessly to entice SDCC, rebuild credibility and confidence in their damaged brand at that time, and convince SDCC that they wouldnt be made look foolish by any future examinership stuff - tough ask and it was achieved. But there was no way that SRFC could have gotten things done themselves, financially, politically or administratively, so thumbing the nose at other clubs for not doing better holds its own irony also OTH. 'Given a stadium' sounds dismissive I would agree. It would be more accurate to say provided with the opportunity to rent a municipal stadium as the primary tenant at minimal financial cost or risk and significantly less than what other clubs have or will have to fund. That's not a level playing field, though I would stop well short of calling it unfair. I do think at times some Rovers fans should be less tetchy when the 'Given a stadium' type jibes are rolled out, and just say 'yup, its great isnt it', which would rub it in for what are basically jealous rivals - like myself which I dont mind admitting as I would love even a new stand in Oriel never mind the provision of the top LoI facility.

[ontheotherhand]

There were a couple of rival LoI fans that went batting for Rovers in the Tallaght saga, the irony of there not even being an opportunity to do the same in the home county isnt missed. Rovers people worked tirelessly to entice SDCC, rebuild credibility and confidence in their damaged brand at that time, and convince SDCC that they would be made look foolish by any future examinership stuff - tough ask and it was achieved. But there was no way that SRFC could have gotten things done themselves, financially, politically or administratively, so thumbing the nose at other clubs for not doing better holds its own irony also OTH. 'Given a stadium' sounds dismissive I would agree. It would be more accurate to say provided with the opportunity to rent a municipal stadium as the primary tenant at minimal financial cost or risk and significantly less than what other clubs have or will have to fund. That's not a level playing field, though I would stop well short of calling it unfair. I do think at times some Rovers fans should be less tetchy when the 'Given a stadium' type jibes are rolled out, and just say 'yup, its great isnt it', which would rub it in for what are basically jealous rivals - like myself which I dont mind admitting as I would love even a new stand in Oriel never mind the provision of the top LoI facility.

Minimal financial cost or risk? Say that to the Rovers fans who took out loans at huge financial cost and risk to themselves to keep things rolling. I was too young to contribute much but I'm still waiting for my name on a brick in the stadium! But you're referring more to the current arrangement of course. I'm not so sure it's at minimal risk financial or otherwise. The rent can be increased as SDCC see fit and with the new expansion I'd imagine it will be. They have other tenants now as well and there's a lot of football being played there.. We pay to be there after investing (collective we) so much into it. It's not about being tetchy, I think most fans in the league (maybe not on here) don't actually know the history of it. Even Rovers fans don't know all the ins and outs. You have info I don't.

What is holding Dundalk back from fixing up Oriel at this point? Not enough financial, political or administrative capital? I'm more than a bit ignorant on the situation there to be fair.

And yes, a few other LoI clubs/fans were helpful along the way and that was appreciated. It was horrible to go through, particularly when Thomas Davis and the GAA leaned in.

[Nesta99]

Minimal financial cost or risk? Say that to the Rovers fans who took out loans at huge financial cost and risk to themselves to keep things rolling. I was too young to contribute much but I'm still waiting for my name on a brick in the stadium! But you're referring more to the current arrangement of course. I'm not so sure it's at minimal risk financial or otherwise. The rent can be increased as SDCC see fit and with the new expansion I'd imagine it will be. They have other tenants now as well and there's a lot of football being played there.. We pay to be there after investing (collective we) so much into it. It's not about being tetchy, I think most fans in the league (maybe not on here) don't actually know the history of it. Even Rovers fans don't know all the ins and outs. You have info I don't.

What is holding Dundalk back from fixing up Oriel at this point? Not enough financial, political or administrative capital? I'm more than a bit ignorant on the situation there to be fair.

And yes, a few other LoI clubs/fans were helpful along the way and that was appreciated. It was horrible to go through, particularly when Thomas Davis and the GAA leaned in.

Maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but taking out loans to keep a club in business is not the same as doing the same to commit millions of Euro to build a ground. Just In case, I dont to intend to sound as if im dismissing sacrifices made by fans, but Rovers pay rent to use a ground built by another organisation and hence didnt have the level of financial risk that they would have had if doing it themselves. Again I dont want to associate the board that bocht the club with the board that saved it but there is a whole load of examples where LoI clubs have not been able to deliver ground developments and many were pushed to the brink of extinction trying to do so, Rovers is the biggest example. Rent can increase of course but its manageable and runs for set cycles, more sustainable than servicing debt where a jump in interest rates can not be anticipated too far in advance. There are also other club membership schemes where people pony up but dont have facilities of note to use, ED Park is Galway FA and Turners Cross is Munster FA. I doubt there is a LoI fan that hasnt faced the prospect of their club going out of existence and dig deep to try and prevent it, and yes it is horrible. Both our clubs are lucky to have been able step back from the brink with some epic efforts by fans.

Oriel Park....where do you start?! Wasted money under Peak6 has diminished the financial ability, political, well LouthCoCo are of little help currently and Peter Fitzpatrick TD is an active obstructionist. I havent seen any grant applications of note so administratively stretched possibly and a whole lot of more pressing fixes needed to fill gaps left by Bob and co. Like Shane Keegan as the pro licence coach ended up doing the leagues licence application after experienced people were squeezed out. Short or medium term work would require meeting a lot of criteria as part of the planning process on areas that are exempted due to the age of the place - best example is the lack of proper parking. An application would require a traffic impact survey eg and there isnt currently an obvious affordable fix. As it is people park on footpaths etc which would be grounds to reject permission to make any structural changes. Now this could be sorted with a proper development as part of a wider plan (YDC has parking underneath eg). But for quick fixes like covering the away section with a shed like structure could open a costly can of worms. Ideally the club would acquire the field that is behind the town goal, and land from the defunct Iarnrod Eireann site and lines from the rear of the YDC back to the Ardee Rd. Anything close to what is needed would suck up €10mil of club money with some grants added and still not be a great stadium, unless our local authority decide to build a municipal facility that we could use...

[ontheotherhand]

The 400 club was originally set up as a stadium development fund to continue work after the initial 2.44m in sponsorship and sports capital grants was invested so fans were committing money to finish the work even if that money probably ended up paying player wages etc but I take your point. I did come back to yours after highlighting again the sacrifices of Rovers fans through the period which I think is fair to do in the context of this discussion. Nothing was given and people sacrificed a lot to keep the club and the project on track. There were enough twists and turns that I've just blanked a lot of it out though to be fair. We survived. Last Man Standing and all that.

Good to know the details on Oriel. Hadn't realized you had such political obstacles there. What's the story with Fitzpatrick? A GAA man or just an arsehole or both? What about the smaller fixes like getting fencing that actually fits the space? Seeing straight fences and hoarding lined down steps on tv is a bad look. Always feels like a week of work could have the place looking a lot better, with or without a new roof etc.

[Nesta99]

Fitzer is a GAA first and only man, if it wasnt for that streak of animosity to games not GAA he's no the worst and does try for constituents, certainly not Lazy. His GAA club is a den of arrogance whih is funny as they have been an intermediate club for the guts of 20 years now, had to rub off a bit. He was canvassing outside Oriel on match night last General Election and I asked him about his lobbying for Louths new county ground in Dundalk and in doing so pushing back on plans for other sports facilities. His answer was that as county chairman that Dundalk FC would never be denied using the county ground if needed for European games. It was then that i politely told him he was full of it as he had no authority to make such a decision as it would need to go to Central Council, he spluttered more than he usually did for a bit.

I dont know what the story with that barrier closing off the rear of the Lilywhite Lounge and the away terrace or who did it but it is shoddy and sometimes the small things can make a big difference. We did get a lick of paint here and there. With the fiasco of last season, Im happy to let the new owners get their feet under the table before too much moaning as things are happening across the club. I think we are nearing some serious conversations on Oriel ie the next close season or so, but that wouldnt necessarily indicate a movement on planning. Jus that there is an opportunity to try and be in the mix as a training camp base for joint tournament bids. Tbh if there is any sort of significant money spent even tens of thousands it would likely be a waste as things woulld be demolished down the line for development.

[nigel-harps1954]

A fairly long read, but lays out the full Finn Harps stadium project as it sits, and where it moves forward. Statement from Donegal County Council today on funding allocation. It finally looks like we're ready to rock again.

Have edited it down slightly, but it's a pretty comprehensive read, and should answer some questions that's been asked on here previously. If mods require it to be chopped further, please feel free to suggest as such, or to remove.


Today Donegal County Council allocated €500’000 matching the FAI and Harps own funding in relation to completion of Donegal Community Stadium at Stranorlar, County Donegal following engagement with Finn Harps FC, Football Association of Ireland and Dept Sport etc.

The report recommends that Donegal Co. Council make a conditional offer to Finn Harps FC to provide € 500,000.00 towards the completion of the Donegal Community Stadium subject to a number of conditions as set out in the report. Members are asked to consider the report and the recommendation and to approve the recommendation as set out.

The Elected Members of the Council are well aware of the proposed development of the Donegal Community Stadium at Stranorlar, which is primarily being advanced by Finn Harps FC to facilitate their participation in the FAI Senior League and FAI Senior Cup competitions. This matter has come before Council on a number of occasions through motions submitted by a number of Members, with Members requesting the Executive in the Council to work with and support Finn Harps FC in their aim to complete the Stadium, which would allow them to play their home games at the venue at the earliest possible date.

Background: Donegal Co. Council has over the past number of years provided its' support to Finn Harps FC as they seek to progress the development and completion of the Donegal Community Stadium in Stranorlar. It is noted and very much welcomed that financial funding in the sum of € 3.991 M has been provisionally allocated by the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport & Media under the Large Scale Sports Infrastructure Fund (LSSIF) to this end. The application to LSSIF was submitted by the FAI as the National Governing Body for Soccer in Ireland in conjunction with Finn Harps FC, with Donegal Co. Council providing a 'Letter of Support' to the application. The 'Letter of Support' from the Council outlined the following; It is noted that the Donegal County Development Plan 2018 - 2024 identifies Ballybofey & Stranorlar as a 'Strategic Town' with the objective of developing a 'Centre of Excellence for Sport & Recreation' in the Twin Towns. Donegal Co. Council engaged in a public consultation process to develop a Masterplan for a Centre of Excellence for Sport at Stranorlar and that the Donegal Community Stadium was selected as a central element of same. In addition, this objective was restated and again emphasised in the Local Area Plan for Ballybofey & Stranorlar (2018 – 2024) formally adopted by Donegal Co. Council in July 2018. It is the Council’s view that the development of the Donegal Community Stadium is a centre piece in achieving the overall aims and objectives of the Local Area Plan in this location.

Furthermore and in the context of the support provided by the Council, it is noted that the site upon which the Stadium is being built is owned by Donegal County Council, and the Council has granted a lease in favour of Finn Harps for a 30 year term. It is important to also note that the Council has invested local funding directly into the project to date. The land purchase costs for the Sports Master Plan area were € 1,081,482, which includes the lands leased to Finn Harps FC to accommodate the Donegal Community Stadium. The development of road access infrastructure, boundary treatment and other ancillary development works to facilitate the development of the facilities at this location are of the order of €250,000. This brings the total local investment to date to € 1,331,482. {piece on local sporting area of excellence edited}..while the new stadium will give a significant boost to the public in the North West on match nights, the Council is also very aware of the work that Finn Harps are carrying out in the community, collaborating with clubs, schools and other organisations in the County, in order to increase participation in sport, and promote social inclusion. Significant progress has been made in this regard particularly via their Schools Programme and Academy in recent years. The completion of the Stadium and the broader Masterplan is key to putting modern facilities in place that will enable all these programmes to be developed further.

Current Position: Members are very much aware of the current state of development in relation to the Stadium. Work has been stalled for a considerable period of time with the overall site falling into a state of disrepair. There is a strong desire in the local community, and throughout the county that the project is brought to conclusion. Senior Management within Council, as directed and requested by Elected Members, have engaged with Finn Harps FC, the FAI and the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport & Media (DTCAGSM) to ascertain what options exist to provide for the completion of the stadium. A number of meetings have been held and it is very apparent that all parties wish to see the project delivered. That said, the major issue to be resolved is the funding gap between what has been committed by DTCAGCSM (€ 3.991 M) and the sum required to deliver the completed stadium to allow Finn Harps FC to play their home games at the venue. Finn Harps FC has carried out a major review of the proposed stadium and has also concluded a ‘value engineering’ exercise to exclude and reduce elements of the overall project, which are not absolutely necessary at this time, so as to refine the overall project costs to the greatest degree possible.
The Development Committee in Finn Harps FC has also reviewed the construction format to be used, and following significant investigation has now opted for a modular stadium build and has recently gone to the marketplace on this basis. This construction method is one that is used widely in the UK, and site visits were carried out to examine same. Planning Permission for the development has been extended under Plan Ref: 22/50661 to October 2024. As a consequence of this approach, revised financial projections for the completion of the stadium have been provided, based on current tender prices, as follows;

Financial Projections: Complete stadium steel structure (including covered stands and seats) € 2,872,000.00 Finish Stadium Foundations € 568,000.00 Floodlights € 190,000.00 Laying Pitch € 230,000.00 Facilities main stand (Dressing rooms etc.) € 1,700,000.00 TOTAL € 5,560,000.00 As a consequence of the provisional allocation by DTCAGCSM of € 4 M approx., the funding gap to be met is of the order of € 1.5 M approx. From the various meetings that have taken place with all the relevant parties, the proposals emerging to meet this funding deficit are as follows; Football Association of Ireland (FAI) € 500,000.00 Finn Harps Football Club € 500,000.00 Donegal County Council € 500,000.00 TOTAL € 1,500,000.00

To date, Finn Harps FC has received a conditional Letter of Offer from the FAI (June 2022) to commit the sum of € 500,000.00 to the project, subject to a number of conditions being met. The Finn Harps Committee has indicated to the Council at a recent meeting that the conditions are not overly onerous and that they will have no issues complying with same. For their part, Finn Harps FC has confirmed that they have commenced a major fundraising initiative to raise their share of the funding required and have expressed their confidence that they will be in a position to meet their obligations in this regard.

Recommendation to Council:

In light of the above, it is recommended that Donegal Co. Council make a conditional offer to Finn Harps FC to provide € 500,000.00 towards the completion of the Donegal Community Stadium on the following basis;
1. The funding support is to be capped at € 500,000.00 and is specifically related to the completion of the Donegal Community Stadium and to enable the drawdown of the € 3,991,000.00 from DTCAGCSM and not to be used for any other purpose
2. The funding will be paid over a three year period as follows; 2022 € 250,000.00 2023 € 150,000.00 2024 € 100,000.00
3. The funding will be subject to a Heads of Agreement document between the parties, with the financial contribution payable in any year subject to the delivery of agreed milestones.
4. Finn Harps FC to retain responsibility for all aspects of the delivery of the project, including the planning, design and construction phases and will be responsible for engaging the required professional services in this regard. Finn Harps FC also to retain responsibility for the maintenance and operation of the new Stadium when complete.

[Nesta99]

Thanks Nigel, interesting read and generally tends toward there being light at the end of the tunnel. A few things of note, how fecking big is the site as €1.1m for DonegalCoCo to acquire the site is a lot (agri land averages at 10k per acre, 29 acres of industrial zoned land in Kildare €125k per acre. Regional differences apply and housing zoned land is costly and sport and rec zoned usually not a whole chunk more than agri or unzoned land. if someone has some up to date figures it'd good to see but they could have picked a cheaper site!!). The site must already be reasonably well serviced as €250k sounds on the low side - for context an unserviced site proposal for Drogheda United a decade or so ago, was priced at about €2m and that would have been if LouthCoCo paid for and did the work rather than a private company, bit cheeky of DUFC to both look for council funding and also have the council pay for and do essential work, permission was denied if anyone was wondering).

I never like to see terms like provisional when grants are being allocated. Without at the very least having a letter of confirmation of funding if certain set and attainable criteria are met, provisional funding can be kicked down the road and scupper the best laid plans. Not suggesting this will happen but there's a kinda reluctant tone with lots of ifs with these allocations in the past. If confirmation comes via an elected rep rather than the relevant govt department then the red flags definitely fly.

Thank fook someone at last is not obsessed with poured concrete structures, there'll be a few contractors grumbling over this as there is significant wriggle room to up or down quotes on the old poured concrete method. Modular units just make sense, cheaper, quicker, less environmental impact as Im sure every Bohs fan will know. Jesting aside, usually carbon neutral, is one of the buzz terms to go with sport and rec, multi use, community, centre of excellece, area development plans etc. Not major, just surprised that it was dropped in to the report 1 or 100 times. I do like the use of 'masterplan', gives it an air of mystery;)

Maybe just phrasing but projected costs say 'complete stadium structure, covered stands and seats €3m' then 'finish foundations 600k' cant do one without the other unless its to do with whats already started? There is a funding gap, there always is, but do Harps have to show that they have theirs sorted before commencement or can things go ahead as Harps raise their obligation. I think Clann Credo is under used by clubs/councils and Dept of Sport should point groups in that direction rather than fundraise in hope of meeting targets in possibly a difficult timeframe. This could secure the outlay needed to get going and the fundraising used to repay money incrementally as it comes in rather than having to wait until the full target is reached. More a general point and maybe things have changed from days of old, but govt funding for any project should never go to those overseeing the project, it should be paid out to the construction company directly as targets are met and the final tranche when the completion report is done and snags sorted. Anyone who has built a house never mind a multimillion € facility would know all about getting banks to release the final part of a mortgage. The council have certainly stated their stance on their 500k. Surprising that they have totally delegated the delivery to Harps, would have been no harm in a planner or engineer sitting in on things.

Finally that there is no mention of previous funding allocated and work done was quickly glossed over - There's a story in that somewhere. The major part of the funding application was made by the FAI on behalf of Finn Harps, might be time for Dundalk FC to start stamping their feet and get in on this recent precedence!!! Can we assume that the FAI can cover their 500k, Rovers make sure you carefully count yer European prizemoney....

I really hope this is the final leg in Harps getting their new home done and dusted, if I say good luck with it t could sound flippant, but no its time for things to align and get it finished and I will look forward to Dundalk playing away to Harps though it'd be a first as irrespective of league position its rarely an easy night.

[sbgawa]

Harps and ollie have punched above their weight for a good few years , this stadium could be what it takes to make them a more solid mid table side with occasional moments of triumph. It is still my favourite away day and please God this actually happens. I haven't seen a scale model so that is a good sign

[Charlie Darwin]

.The reason Croke Park weren't very vocally standing behind their club side was due to it being suggested that they may not want to establish a precedent of insisting that publicly funded facilities must be available to all sports going forward and so maybe capital funding might be a tad harder to come by.
The reason Croke Park weren't vocally standing behind TD is because it was all being driven by Dublin GAA against TD's will. They made TD take the case because they wanted to shield themselves from not only losing out on future handouts but responsibility for the legal bill.

[Nesta99]

TD were fine with things until they realised that their legal bluster wasnt going to stick and may have wanted out. I now know thanks to Buller that it wasnt SDCC that dug the heels in but the Minister for Sport, which Im sure was a severe shock to the GAA. TD may well have been thrown under the bus by Dublin GAA but Croke Park were in damage limitation mode so who pushed who first is hard to know. Where Croke Park and the Dublin County Board start and finish was never particularly defined with all the back scratching at the best of times - Dublin GAA was a cash cow even back then. If TD now claim they were forced by Dublin GAA, unwilling to get involved, then they are being a bit revisionist. If they had succeeded Id be confident that they would claim credit and that they stood in the front line. I limited my interaction with GAA as much as was possible as they were just a headache, but I cant see how a county board could force a club in to a judicial review and expose them financially if a club refused, the other clubs would back the refusal and a county board is made up of club people after all. As metioned, there was a lot of back corridor agreements made, not recorded accurately as would be proper and if such decisions happened in formal meetings. That way of doing business was changing but I think Mr Delaney may have ensured change sticks when a PAC will come after ye. One thing is for sure and thats that few if any know everything from that saga, and more than once the towel was almost thrown in by civic agencies involved and just have the bulldozers roll in. Ive had to revise some of my own thoughts on the subject with the Minister for Sport not siding as you'd expect. Its real nerd stuff but I did enjoy all this kind of stuff and still take an interest even if a long way from any involvement so apologies for cluttering threads on the topic.

[Glen Of Aherlow]

Any word on Pat's plans for Richmond ?

[D24Saint]

Any word on Pat's plans for Richmond ?

We were supposed to be in on the City Development plan that’s being worked on by the corpo. I had a brief look through the pdf they have online and didn’t see Richmond mention in the Inchicore section. Unless that’s not the final draft that will be voted on by councillors. We need something to happen with Richmond to give it a facelift.

[Glen Of Aherlow]

We were supposed to be in on the City Development plan that’s being worked on by the corpo. I had a brief look through the pdf they have online and didn’t see Richmond mention in the Inchicore section. Unless that’s not the final draft that will be voted on by councillors. We need something to happen with Richmond to give it a facelift.

Yeah the European game the other night really showed that , brilliant atmosphere but a shame to see two sides of the ground empty for such a big match.

[Philosophizer]

Yeah the European game the other night really showed that , brilliant atmosphere but a shame to see two sides of the ground empty for such a big match.
In a way I love that about Richmond, that it has one whole side and one end of the ground terraced, and the other side's have seating. And you're basically on top of the pitch! Still one of my favourite grounds to watch a game.

[A N Mouse]

Thanks Nigel, interesting read and generally tends toward there being light at the end of the tunnel. A few things of note, how fecking big is the site as €1.1m for DonegalCoCo to acquire the site is a lot (agri land averages at 10k per acre, 29 acres of industrial zoned land in Kildare €125k per acre. Regional differences apply and housing zoned land is costly and sport and rec zoned usually not a whole chunk more than agri or unzoned land. if someone has some up to date figures it'd good to see but they could have picked a cheaper site!!). The site must already be reasonably well serviced as €250k sounds on the low side - for context an unserviced site proposal for Drogheda United a decade or so ago, was priced at about €2m and that would have been if LouthCoCo paid for and did the work rather than a private company, bit cheeky of DUFC to both look for council funding and also have the council pay for and do essential work, permission was denied if anyone was wondering).

Take you mean this bit
The land purchase costs for the Sports Master Plan area were € 1,081,482, which includes the lands leased to Finn Harps FC to accommodate the Donegal Community Stadium.
Which I read as total cost for ALL land purchases related to Sports Master Plan in the county, so not just Stranorlar.

[Nesta99]

Take you mean this bit
Which I read as total cost for ALL land purchases related to Sports Master Plan in the county, so not just Stranorlar.

Ah, that would make sense then. Fair play to DonegalCoCo if they are spending that sort of money acquiring land for sport and rec across the county, especially at a time when land banks that have been used for sport are being reallocated to housing. Does Donegal have a shortage of playing pitches in general, as other areas do?

[nigel-harps1954]

There's loads of sporting facilities in Donegal. Between GAA, junior and intermediate football there's a massive amount.

Thing is, there's no real central spot for sport. All dotted around the county. Finn Valley centre and Finn Harps development is only part of what's planned to be a massive sporting centre. They have a huge amount of area to develop there. Will be several football pitches, both grass and artificial, running tracks and full athletics facilities, swimming pool, rugby pitches, GAA facilities, and a heap of other bits and pieces within a stone's throw of each other once it's all developed and will be on a par with anything in the country of it's kind, from the bits and pieces I've saw of it at least.

There's a massive regeneration plan for the twin towns area to coincide.