View Full Version : Cork City denied a licence; club to be wound up; FORAS to enter First Division
tonydaly
19/02/2010, 11:51 PM
Interesting for Foras.... do they need these guys?
Will it dilute or alter the original 100% fan owned set up, or was that actually the plan?
How do members feel about going in with these lads if they don't actually have to (?) or do they?
Michael O'Connell is owed c200k from the Celtic game by all accounts. (I'm open to correction here). Would including him in the coalition of the willing bring on a 200k debt to the new club?
Same answer to both above. FORAS is a trust and as such are governed by trust rules which state that each member will have only one vote no matter how much they give. They could if they wished sponsor the new club. So going by these rules their debts would die with the demise of Cork City as they could not be transferred to the trust .
Doomofman
19/02/2010, 11:56 PM
So its not really in O'Connell's interest to let the deal with TNB fall through
tonydaly
20/02/2010, 12:15 AM
Not in his interest as he can't transfer his debt to a club involving a trust like FORAS.
dcfcsteve
20/02/2010, 1:19 AM
in fairness they cant do both, they cant carry on negotiations with coughlan and concentrate on a new club
Yes they can, and I suspect that is precisely what they're doing - ostensibly at least.
me think its as some said earlier, could be just to get coughlan to budge
Agreed. So they are doing both at the same time.
i was gonna say it will be interesting to see, but frankly that will be a lie, its boring the tits off everyone at this stage
Doubly agreed. It's just soooooo feckin boring by now. If ever there was a need for assisted suicide and some balls on Leeside......
weecountyman
20/02/2010, 6:06 AM
FORAS got into bed with a "consortium" to keep Cork City alive and repay local businesses (ie restore honour and trust). The 1st Division was only plan b and the "consortium" was not interested in it - a couple of days ago were only taking over if they got a PD licence. Now it's all change and they're bluffing/stating they're going to back the fan licence in the 1st division. None of this makes sense. I said 2 days ago that this was a game of brinkmanship and FORAS are being used as the coverall. Nobody is going to come out of this with any shred of honour, no matter what the outcome - and the outcome could be that Tommy gets his PD licence and FORAS are stuck with a 1st Division licence. edit: I forgot that FORAS will only get a licence for the 1st if CCFC cease to exist and don't get a licence. So it cojuld be that the shell of a club limp on with Tom pulling the strings until the end of the season.
garyderry
20/02/2010, 11:26 AM
FORAS got into bed with a "consortium" to keep Cork City alive and repay local businesses (ie restore honour and trust). The 1st Division was only plan b and the "consortium" was not interested in it - a couple of days ago were only taking over if they got a PD licence. Now it's all change and they're bluffing/stating they're going to back the fan licence in the 1st division. None of this makes sense. I said 2 days ago that this was a game of brinkmanship and FORAS are being used as the coverall. Nobody is going to come out of this with any shred of honour, no matter what the outcome - and the outcome could be that Tommy gets his PD licence and FORAS are stuck with a 1st Division licence. edit: I forgot that FORAS will only get a licence for the 1st if CCFC cease to exist and don't get a licence. So it cojuld be that the shell of a club limp on with Tom pulling the strings until the end of the season.
Pull your head out of the sand and stop talking rubbish
The consortium said they wouldnt BUY cork city with a premier licence. Which makes total sense,
WTF would they buy a club with 1million of debt in the 1st division, when they can all back FORAS
debt free in the 1st division. It was all very clear from the start, option 1) buy cork and pay the debts in premier division. 2) Cork under Ton get dumped, FORAS licence accepted and cork in 1st division with no debt (this was always the last resort, but ALWAYS an option).
Dodge
20/02/2010, 12:00 PM
FORAS got into bed with a "consortium" to keep Cork City alive and repay local businesses (ie restore honour and trust). The 1st Division was only plan b and the "consortium" was not interested in it - a couple of days ago were only taking over if they got a PD licence. Now it's all change and they're bluffing/stating they're going to back the fan licence in the 1st division. None of this makes sense. I said 2 days ago that this was a game of brinkmanship and FORAS are being used as the coverall. Nobody is going to come out of this with any shred of honour, no matter what the outcome - and the outcome could be that Tommy gets his PD licence and FORAS are stuck with a 1st Division licence. edit: I forgot that FORAS will only get a licence for the 1st if CCFC cease to exist and don't get a licence. So it cojuld be that the shell of a club limp on with Tom pulling the strings until the end of the season.
Why the use of "consortium" when its claerly the correct word.
And there is more chance of you praising your beloved ROddy Collins tha there is of Cork getting a premier licence with TOmmy involved
weecountyman
20/02/2010, 6:00 PM
claerly the correct word
Yes, it clearly is! In the correct form it doesn't fulfil a consortium model with a trust involved. You should get off the Roddy kick, it's beyond boring now ;)
Pull your head out of the sand and stop talking rubbish
The consortium said they wouldnt BUY cork city with a premier licence. Which makes total sense,
WTF would they buy a club with 1million of debt in the 1st division, when they can all back FORAS
debt free in the 1st division. It was all very clear from the start, option 1) buy cork and pay the debts in premier division. 2) Cork under Ton get dumped, FORAS licence accepted and cork in 1st division with no debt (this was always the last resort, but ALWAYS an option).
Very mature, however the point is this. FORAS set out to keep the club going (in some form) and to bring honour to the situation, the businesspeople came in to get a return or money back - all good so far, and taking care of local businesses who've been stung was a large part of the brief (a quick look back over the recent Cork supporter posts backs this up and rightly so). If the PD licence isn't given then the level of trust from local businesses is going to be hit. It means that all the rhetoric and to and fro was for nothing because one man played a shell game, and his opponents were ostensibly let down by the football authorities. The main point is that there will be no winners in this charade.
Doomofman
20/02/2010, 6:04 PM
I know they're trying to do the honourable thing but whether businesses/creditors suffer or not Cork City still shouldn't get a PD licence...
tippex
20/02/2010, 6:23 PM
It's been worringly quiet today.
weecountyman
20/02/2010, 7:10 PM
I know they're trying to do the honourable thing but whether businesses/creditors suffer or not Cork City still shouldn't get a PD licence...
Doomofman, way back when I said that sentiment should be put aside and pure business ethics take over. The best way to build up confidence and trust is to move forward solidly and by making money they can bring money into the area. But as outsiders we have a very different view of it and ultimately the Cork fans will stand or fall by their decisions. I agree that they shouldn't get a PD licence, but there is no sort of consistency in any of this! Tom and co have gotten away with murder (of the club and goodwill) and the national media has caved in each time. I hope this same compliant media is as supportive of other clubs who have difficulties and certainly for a new club that may arise.
themaster56
21/02/2010, 2:03 PM
I said it at the start of the season and was vilified for it but its an absolute joke that Cork got to start this season as Premier Division club.
For that, yes you can fault the FAI.
agree with you
tippex
21/02/2010, 5:26 PM
agree with you
With it being so quiet the last 2 days what are the odds that it gets announced that the takeover hasnt gone ahead but cork get a prem license and foras are still out in the cold?
Doomofman
21/02/2010, 5:28 PM
With it being so quiet the last 2 days what are the odds that it gets announced that the takeover hasnt gone ahead but cork get a prem license and foras are still out in the cold?
I reckon it's more likely that the deal will have gone through and all the Quintas talk of deadlines and focusing on FORAS was all posturing... Cork will get a Premier licence with no point deduction....
With it being so quiet the last 2 days what are the odds that it gets announced that the takeover hasnt gone ahead but cork get a prem license and foras are still out in the cold?
Just wait until tomorrow ffs
Doomofman
21/02/2010, 5:40 PM
Just wait until tomorrow ffs
Yeah how dare we discuss things on a forum...
weecountyman
21/02/2010, 6:50 PM
No matter what I hope FORAS keep the flag flying. I remember enough slagging of Shamrock Rovers when they set up to try rescue the club, so fair is fair. The whole situation has been a rolling mess since before Christmas. Here's hoping there's a decent resolution in the morning. By the way, is it a trip back to the High Court tomorrow?
FORAS should have been granted the first division licence last Monday, but i'm fairly confidant they will be tomorrow . Tomorrow should be the end of CCIFL .
naoise kennedy
21/02/2010, 8:48 PM
FORAS should have been granted the first division licence last Monday, but i'm fairly confidant they will be tomorrow . Tomorrow should be the end of CCIFL .
does anybody know what time this decision is to be made at....
Magicme
21/02/2010, 9:03 PM
Heard somewhere that the committee are due to meet early evening (5ish I think) so decision should be after that sometime, possibly in time for 6pm news.
naoise kennedy
21/02/2010, 9:08 PM
Heard somewhere that the committee are due to meet early evening (5ish I think) so decision should be after that sometime, possibly in time for 6pm news.
thanks,, so bray have no chance of signing any attached players if they stay up..
weecountyman
21/02/2010, 9:10 PM
thanks,, so bray have no chance of signing any attached players if they stay up..
There is both provision and precedent for this. Bray can sign contracted players within 72 hours of confirmation of place. Plus they can trial and register players who are not under contract with other clubs.
naoise kennedy
21/02/2010, 9:15 PM
did not realise bray had 72 hours,, hopefully eddie was looking around,, but i did know that they could sign unattached players ,,, thanks
weecountyman
21/02/2010, 9:29 PM
did not realise bray had 72 hours,, hopefully eddie was looking around,, but i did know that they could sign unattached players ,,, thanks
It's written into UEFA law (I know of clubs using it in Europe) and I believe the FAI will also make sure there is all allowance given in the pursuit of fair play, not to mention some good publicity.
Doomofman
21/02/2010, 9:30 PM
It's written into UEFA law (I know of clubs using it in Europe) and I believe the FAI will also make sure there is all allowance given in the pursuit of fair play, not to mention some good publicity.
Is there such a thing in the LOI?
tiktok
21/02/2010, 10:08 PM
It's written into UEFA law (I know of clubs using it in Europe) .
Link?
sligoman
21/02/2010, 10:59 PM
What time is the circus show/court case on at tomorrow?
Doomofman
21/02/2010, 11:47 PM
What time is the circus show/court case on at tomorrow?
Someone on here reckoned around 5... Think last week it was around 3...
weecountyman
22/02/2010, 4:10 AM
Link?
I can't find it on the UEFA site in the history but it was used for sure with FK Austria Karnten (who took up a licence in 2007, due to tax and registration compliance were unable to sign anyone until the window was closing and thus availed of a rule to allow them sign outside the window). The same allowance is made for clubs in general if there are extentuating circumstances - weather, illness etc. Andre Arshavin being a case in point.
edit: in searching for the exact FK Austria story (pardon my German has gone back the last couple of years) but under FIFA provisions on transfers there is an allowance given to the governing national body - article 6 - and in the mentioned case FK Austria were given a set period. Arshavin's transfer was given 48hours, the main reason was given as snow and translation of documents.
I can't find it on the UEFA site in the history but it was used for sure with FK Austria Karnten (who took up a licence in 2007, due to tax and registration compliance were unable to sign anyone until the window was closing and thus availed of a rule to allow them sign outside the window). The same allowance is made for clubs in general if there are extentuating circumstances - weather, illness etc. Andre Arshavin being a case in point.
Link to that news story then... (and not the weather one, which most certainly does not allow 72 hours...)
tiktok
22/02/2010, 8:27 AM
What time is the circus show/court case on at tomorrow?
11am, Court 3, Justice Laffoy presiding.
11am, Court 3, Justice Laffoy presiding.I presume as Tom has paid the tax money that this will be struck out?
tiktok
22/02/2010, 8:49 AM
I presume as Tom has paid the tax money that this will be struck out?
"There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip."
Presume nothing where Tom is concerned, he has a rare ability to add complexity to even the simplest process.
Presume nothing where Tom is concerned, he has a rare ability to add complexity to even the simplest process.fingers crossed :D
tonydaly
22/02/2010, 9:07 AM
"There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip."
Presume nothing where Tom is concerned, he has a rare ability to add complexity to even the simplest process.
You can be sure if anyone can f*** something up Coughlan can.
12 mins to the hearing... yikes
Adjourned for an hour.. I guess the predictions that it was not going to be straightforward have come through.
Longfordian
22/02/2010, 10:32 AM
Could be that another creditor has come forward to join the petition and put pressure on him?.
Yep, from ccfc forum:
2 objections to the application being struck out...
time is running out fast...
refjohn
22/02/2010, 10:42 AM
Yep, from ccfc forum:
This could make it very very easy for FAI - any wonder why they seem to have scheduled the licensing meeting for the evening.
The thought just occurred to me that since at least one of the lads in the consortium with FORAS are creditors too, they could actually object in order to increase the pressure on Coughlan.
It would seem that despite being paid the revenue are still very unhappy.... I guess having to get winding up orders every time to get money is getting up their noses.
Dodge
22/02/2010, 10:54 AM
Prsumably there's a cost to issuing a request for winding up orders (and costs associated with nmot getting payments regularly)
tippex
22/02/2010, 10:57 AM
It would seem that despite being paid the revenue are still very unhappy.... I guess having to get winding up orders every time to get money is getting up their noses.
Id imagine that the revenue would be of the opinion that they will be back here in 3 months time looking for their money owed so would be better off winding them up and letting foras start from scratch.
I wouldnt be surprised if the 2 lads in the consortium also objected as if they get wound up then foras get the license in the first. However if they dont get wound up there is still a good possibilty that TNB would get a license and everyone loses.
Longfordian
22/02/2010, 10:59 AM
Could be pressure being put on him by the consortium indirectly, if he does the deal the objections may be withdrawn.
tiktok
22/02/2010, 11:10 AM
The primary and noteworthy objection has not come from a member of the consortium.
tippex
22/02/2010, 11:12 AM
The primary and noteworthy objection has not come from a member of the consortium.
Mr. ex-manager? knowing it would be better having Bray in the premier than Cork for his own current clubs chances of staying up?
James
22/02/2010, 11:21 AM
one of the No Bobs has hardly objected to the revenue being paid ahead of him / her non as a "creditor"
surely thats not possible is it
Leeside Swagger
22/02/2010, 11:23 AM
Its been put back to the second call, we wont know until after lunch. Theres something about the money that was paid to the revenue was owed to someone else. Its a bit vague i know, will post more if i hear it.
O'Keeffe is claiming that the Long money should have gone to him, not the Revenue, on foot of a loan given to TNB by him, thats why the Revenue are so upset apparently!
Jeepers.. TNB sure can screw things up!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.