Cork City denied a licence; club to be wound up; FORAS to enter First Division [Archive] - Page 73

marinobohs

23/02/2010, 1:40 PM

So can we take it that Bray Wanderers are defo playing Premier football and Cork are in the 1st Division?

I think the rules allow a club (if still in existence) one week to appeal the decision of the Licencing committee, from date of decision. Any legal appeal could extend the issue further although I am not sure there is any legal basis for appeal ( I would presume it would require TC to show the Committee did not carry out thier role in accordance with procedure).

So in summary - hopefully Yes it is over but maybe not .......... (only 18 more pages needed to break the 200 !!!)

derm

23/02/2010, 1:42 PM

Except yourselves and Cork aren't really the same clubs as previously though, are ye?
Sure we can brush that under the carpet as well.
Everything is great. Well done to all involved on a job well done!:eek:

Exactly. Which is why Foras fought to the very end, because its mandate was to save the club from extinction. A new club, whilst easier, means the death of the old one, creditors unpaid and people losing their jobs (which would have been paid going forward). No doubt Foras Co-op will become CCFC again and assume the history like so many clubs before, but it's a bittersweet moment for most City fans.

Cork FORAS or what ever should start in the A Championship, as they are a new team, or in fact the MSL.

Exactly them and Derry.

Original application was for the A Championship. Got a First Division one. FAI obviously want us and Waterford to resume our love-in ;)

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0223/corkcity1.html

A bit pedantic of me I know, but the word unable is quite disingenuous there. Unwilling might be a batter word.

No , unable is fair enough. A premier licence and debts versus first or below licence and debts where an option to restart without debts exist. Not feasible really. Foras couldn't afford it alone and I doubt Grey would see the point of assuming the debts in that instance.

I pretty much agree with that, Foras dragged it out a bit too far in the last few days

As I said above, the reason Foras was set up was to ensure the survival of CCFC, not start up a new club. It had to drag it out until the takeover was no longer feasible.

Anyway, best of luck to Bray and Dundalk, hopefully we'll see ye soon (in the prem, obviously!)

TheBoss

23/02/2010, 1:42 PM

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0223/corkcity_court.html

tippex

23/02/2010, 1:42 PM

Well the deed has been done they have been wound up http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0223/corkcity_court.html

derm

23/02/2010, 1:46 PM

thank god its all over and welcome to Foras FC to Div1,really lookin forward to these Munster derbies.Div1 is shapen up to be pretty decent this year,certainly far more competitive than in previous seasons.

Some handy away destinations alright plus might make it to Galway or Derry too. Looking forward to it now :)

pineapple stu

23/02/2010, 1:47 PM

Cork City are now considering their position with a trip to the Supreme Court the only viable option available to the club's owners
Shoddy journalism as usual from RT�. Sure it was shown only a couple of weeks ago that TNB can't go to the courts withot exhausting internal appeals processes.

Longfordian

23/02/2010, 1:49 PM

Well the deed has been done they have been wound up http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0223/corkcity_court.html

Wouldn't put it past Tom to try his luck in the Supreme Court though I reckon he may have trouble getting lawyers to work for him without payment up front!.

Shoddy journalism as usual from RT�. Sure it was shown only a couple of weeks ago that TNB can't go to the courts withot exhausting internal appeals processes.

He'd be appealing the court order, not the Licensing decision. The only avenue of appeal is the Supreme Court

derm

23/02/2010, 1:50 PM

Shoddy journalism as usual from RT�. Sure it was shown only a couple of weeks ago that TNB can't go to the courts withot exhausting internal appeals processes.

What's your point there Stu? "Can't" and "courts" don't go together in Tom's dictionary...

centre mid

23/02/2010, 1:53 PM

Just listening to the radio interview on 96fm and Billy Barry seems unwilling to aportion any blame to Tom Coughlan which seems very strange, wants to blame everyone else.

kingcorner

23/02/2010, 1:56 PM

I think this isnt over yet, Tom will be going to the Supreme Court next!!

Shedendinvisibl

23/02/2010, 1:57 PM

I think the rules allow a club (if still in existence) one week to appeal the decision of the Licencing committee, from date of decision. Any legal appeal could extend the issue further although I am not sure there is any legal basis for appeal ( I would presume it would require TCto show the Committee did not carry out thier role in accordance with procedure).

So in summary - hopefully Yes it is over but maybe not .......... (only 18 more pages needed to break the 200 !!!)

If the Winding Up Order holding company is issued then there is no legal constituent/body/company that can appeal the FAI's licence refusal except the court appointed liquidator. Given the scope of debts and the gross inability of the company to either be sold on as a going concern or to trade out of it's problems there is little chance of it being saved on paper. I hear that Justice Laffoy has issued the Order a while ago so it's all over now bar the shouting at the creditors meeting :D

Had FORAS brokered a deal before now there'd have been a fair chance of a CCFC Premier Division football team but they wanted their cake and then some with bad results. That said have the best result from it given the circumstances but if we are honest they could and should have done somewhat better than they did.

tippex

23/02/2010, 2:00 PM

I think this isnt over yet, Tom will be going to the Supreme Court next!!

Not in Toms head anyway.
There is no way in hell the supreme court will overturn the winding up order considering his history with the revenue.

Mr A

23/02/2010, 2:01 PM

May as well give this one last (hopefully) spin out:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4062/4310162012_73fc93271a_o.jpg

bennocelt

23/02/2010, 2:12 PM

So am i right in saying that the first fixture of the new season will be Derry City V Cork City Foras Co-op, wow thats a great tie

razor

23/02/2010, 2:27 PM

Had FORAS brokered a deal before now there'd have been a fair chance of a CCFC Premier Division football team but they wanted their cake and then some with bad results. What does this mean?
FORAS did everything in their powers to broker a deal, Tom delayed and delayed refusing to play ball and eventually at 3.55 decided to sign it over, far too late to meet licensing requirements.

Ash

23/02/2010, 2:29 PM

Original application was for the A Championship. Got a First Division one. FAI obviously want us and Waterford to resume our love-in ;)

I didnt think Licencing worked that way .... didnt think you could apply for a low one and get awarded a higher one ... if that makes sense?

D.24saint

23/02/2010, 2:36 PM

The foras people should look into the Fiorentina case back in 2002 ACF Fiorentina went bankrupt and they had to start in the lowest league as Florentia Viola then after a couple of seasons they managed to buy the name and shirt designs so they were back to normal.

Acornvilla

23/02/2010, 2:39 PM

derm

23/02/2010, 2:58 PM

I didnt think Licencing worked that way .... didnt think you could apply for a low one and get awarded a higher one ... if that makes sense?

The original application was for A championship but then Foras submitted a new application for the first. I don't know if it was because of Derry that they tried for a first div application, or if they were encouraged to by someone else.

The foras people should look into the Fiorentina case back in 2002 ACF Fiorentina went bankrupt and they had to start in the lowest league as Florentia Viola then after a couple of seasons they managed to buy the name and shirt designs so they were back to normal.

That's always been the plan. Will try to buy the name from liquidator and ask FAI for the history to be transferred. It's happened in this league before too. Still leaves a bad taste of fudge tho'

pineapple stu

23/02/2010, 2:59 PM

What's your point there Stu? "Can't" and "courts" don't go together in Tom's dictionary...
Nope, but RT� should know better than that.

He'd be appealing the court order, not the Licensing decision. The only avenue of appeal is the Supreme Court
Oh. That's stupid. And good too, cos it's not the FAI's decision, which means he can get on with wasting his time while we get drunk watching football.

derm

23/02/2010, 3:03 PM

Nope, but RT� should know better than that.

Agreed

Oh. That's stupid. And good too, cos it's not the FAI's decision, which means he can get on with wasting his time while we get drunk watching football.

Is that what fans do? I'd nearly forgotten!!

PartySaint

23/02/2010, 3:16 PM

Part D - Michael O'Connell http://www.ccfcforum.com/audios/96fm24022010partd.mp3

That has to be the best interview i've ever heard, According to Michael, Johan Cruyff was siting in the Nou Camp watching a Barcelona match and decided to text him asking when can they play Cork City:D:D

WoodquayBoy

23/02/2010, 3:23 PM

That has to be the best interview i've ever heard, According to Michael, Johan Cruyff was siting in the Nou Camp watching a Barcelona match and decided to text him asking when can they play Cork City:D:D

To be fair to Michael, it was only when Barca mde the game safe with a second goal. Ahem.

Dodge

23/02/2010, 3:27 PM

He hee, and this guy was the best alternative to TNB

Puts the mess in perspective to me

Good luck to the fans looking after the new club now

bluemovie

23/02/2010, 3:34 PM

Cork City Foras Co-op

Or Cork City Fo' Co-op for short.

White Horse

23/02/2010, 3:40 PM

Or Cork City Fo' Co-op for short.

It has a certain ring to it. :D

bluemovie

23/02/2010, 3:40 PM

Said in the Star on Saturday that Damien Richardson will be the new manager?

That'd be a coup for the co-op. I thought they'd have to get a local in as caretaker who'd do it out of goodwill. Maybe Dave Barry or Pat Morley. Rico would be a superb appointment.

Macy

23/02/2010, 3:43 PM

Just listening to the radio interview on 96fm and Billy Barry seems unwilling to aportion any blame to Tom Coughlan which seems very strange, wants to blame everyone else.
I've been off work, so haven't really been following the thread ;) , but the spin in the media in general has been how this is a bad thing. The FAI's decision should be seen as a (an albeit belated) positive result. It would appear that TNB, and his connections have some pull, particularly in RTE. And it's mainly the same idiots that slag off the league for reckless spending that see this as bad!?!

razor

23/02/2010, 3:53 PM

That'd be a coup for the co-op. I thought they'd have to get a local in as caretaker who'd do it out of goodwill. Maybe Dave Barry or Pat Morley. Rico would be a superb appointment.I wouldn't take any notice of the Star although I'd safely rule out Judas Morley.
God help us.

Pablo Escobar

23/02/2010, 4:00 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHZ50tvdEIA

jebus

23/02/2010, 4:07 PM

For the love of God please don't call your club that

It will be up there with the likes of Botswanan Meat Commission, Airbus UK and Total Network Solutions in worst football names ever

centre mid

23/02/2010, 4:10 PM

pineapple stu

23/02/2010, 4:22 PM

For the love of God please don't call your club that

It will be up there with the likes of Botswanan Meat Commission, Airbus UK and Total Network Solutions in worst football names ever
I prefer Two Boat Rowdies, Miscellaneous and Retards myself.

(First and last are from somewhere in the Caribbean; middle one is Botswana again)

eamo1

23/02/2010, 4:45 PM

The big question now is can this thread make it to 200 pages?:-)

OneForTheFuture

23/02/2010, 4:52 PM

Just saw Roddy on TV3 News. With all the angry Ex-players. A players manager he called himself a she blamed the FAI!

Acornvilla

23/02/2010, 5:05 PM

I prefer Two Boat Rowdies, Miscellaneous and Retards myself.

(First and last are from somewhere in the Caribbean; middle one is Botswana again)

i guy in my class played for ''dandy town'' in the 80's he was captian and a bermudan international :) anyway he said they once lost to a team in the cup called ''lobster fc'' :)

Frank76

23/02/2010, 5:15 PM

Had to laugh at what Roddy saying that in England when a club was in trouble other clubs rallied round to help them out and not kick them when there down as what he claimed happened to Cork. Well just last week Portsmouth looked for an exemption to sell players outside the transfer window to help keep the club afloat but all the other clubs around them in the table said that there was no way they'd go along with that!!! Nice one Roddy!!!:rolleyes: If he thinks England is that great then feck off back to it!!!

Scrufil

23/02/2010, 5:45 PM

First thanks lads for pointing out that the ILC couldn't award a place to Bray yesterday but when will the FAI declare this and the place for Europe?

I wonder did a Cork man write one of those RTE reports as since when is Cork the 'country's second city'?

If you include all the link pages in this thread as part of the thread then we went by 200 pages a good while ago.

So is this the first time that every club that was 'relegated' on the field of play never got relegated?

If I get in before FORAS can I buy the Cork City FC name? It would be a nice scalp to have on the wall.:p

If Tom was blaming Sinn F�in then this is the best reason ever to vote for Sinn F�in! (But actually technically he was right as Sinn F�in means 'We Ourselves' which is what FORAS is.)

R�iteoir

23/02/2010, 5:47 PM

For the love of God please don't call your club that

It will be up there with the likes of Botswanan Meat Commission, Airbus UK and Total Network Solutions in worst football names ever

I've been looking into this area for a few days - and have found some good and not so good ones:

Hindustan Aeronautics (India)
BATE Borisov (BATE being an acronym for Borisov Works of Automobile and Tractor Electric Equipment)
Briton Ferry Llansawel (of the Welsh third division)
Llandudno Junction (Named after the train station of the same name I believe)
Skoda Xanthi (Greece)

My favourite one though is the football team from Cochabamba in Bolivia - called Club Jorge Wilsterman.

Jorge Wilsterman was Bolivia's first commercial pilot...

dahamsta

23/02/2010, 6:06 PM

I wonder did a Cork man write one of those RTE reports as since when is Cork the 'country's second city'?Technically (factually in fact) it is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cork_%28city%29). To a Corkman, of course it's the real capital.

the-blue-harp

23/02/2010, 6:20 PM

in my eyes, when a club go bust they go bust. cork city are gone, so how can a newly formed club get allowed to play in the division one of the national league without earning the right to do so.

they should have to work there way up from local football again, ala wimbledon in the uk.

incidentally how derry got a license after breaking league rules i'll never know. It's time the fai got serious. Keeping these clubs in the league is not helping it in any way, it just sends out the signal that breaking the rules will not be punished severely and thats not on in my eyes. Time clubs in the league of ireland copped the hell on too in fairness.

Real ale Madrid

23/02/2010, 6:29 PM

the-blue-harp

23/02/2010, 6:43 PM

There is no promotion from the Senior leagues in this country. Senior soccer is an elective process by and large - as long as certain standards are met CCFC have every right to be there. And looking forward to a trip to Finn Park.

well there is something wrong with the system then. It doesnt make much sense to me how a club which folds can then be replaced by another club and take over where the old club left off, debt free. Seems unfair to the rest of us who try and manage our debts honestly.

Look forward to seeing you all in finn park regardless, good bunch of fans, who deserve better. But should learn from the lessons now and cut their cloth accordingly from now on...

Division one is gonna be a hell of a lot better this year though!!;)

The Lep

23/02/2010, 6:51 PM

I've been looking into this area for a few days - and have found some good and not so good ones:

Hindustan Aeronautics (India)
BATE Borisov (BATE being an acronym for Borisov Works of Automobile and Tractor Electric Equipment)
Briton Ferry Llansawel (of the Welsh third division)
Llandudno Junction (Named after the train station of the same name I believe)

Skoda Xanthi (Greece)

My favourite one though is the football team from Cochabamba in Bolivia - called Club Jorge Wilsterman.

Jorge Wilsterman was Bolivia's first commercial pilot...

Llandudno Junction is a town not just a train station so im sure the footy team has taken the town name and not just the train station ;)
You could have had Lex X1 ,NEWI CEFN Druids named after their sponsors,

Soccer Mom

23/02/2010, 6:51 PM

It's time the fai got serious. Keeping these clubs in the league is not helping it in any way, it just sends out the signal that breaking the rules will not be punished severely and thats not on in my eyes. Time clubs in the league of ireland copped the hell on too in fairness.

I'm inclined to agree - but the League is in a state of flux at the moment and certain expediencies are called for at the moment to keep important football centres such as Cork and Derry in the mix. Both clubs have suffered considerably and I think crushing them would have been counterproductive for the League overall.

higgins

23/02/2010, 6:54 PM

You are supposed to go from A Championship -> First Division -> Premier Division
It just so happened that only 20 clubs received eiter a Premier or First divsion licence.
Allowing the new Derry and Cork take the First division spots when they just so happened to get a First Division licence at the first time of asking, despite one of them missing the original deadline.

Two companies who have never before owned a football club let alone take part in senior football.

Of course it all just happened by chance that only 20 clubs got a licence making way for them two to be bumped up past the A Championship.

oriel

23/02/2010, 8:00 PM

First thanks lads for pointing out that the ILC couldn't award a place to Bray yesterday but when will the FAI declare this and the place for Europe?

The euro spot has got to go to Dundalk for the club that finished next highest.

Ps With Cork demotted, relegated, whatever, this leaves only Bohs and Pats as the two teams who have never played in Div 1, and both went to close, well Pats were never really in danger in my book, but they did need the security of that last win and I think Bohs were in a play off in 1999.

bennocelt

23/02/2010, 8:07 PM

Hopefully no-one from the Cork forum mind me posting this link to the audio from this morning.

Award winning stuff.

http://www.ccfcforum.com/audios/96fm24022010parta.mp3

Part B - Jonathan O'Brien http://www.ccfcforum.com/audios/96fm24022010partb.mp3

Part C - Jim McCarthy, Peter Grey, Tom Coughlan & Jonathan O'Brien http://www.ccfcforum.com/audios/96fm24022010partc.mp3

Part D - Michael O'Connell http://www.ccfcforum.com/audios/96fm24022010partd.mp3

Had to bump this as its kind of the whole thread in 4 radio parts, thanks CandyStripe this is awesome stuff
Coughlan has pretty much a break down on the last one, jeez
The Foras guy - O Brien comes across very well, same with the English fella
"Tom Coughlan is a lunatic and just lost his marbles"

charliesboots

23/02/2010, 8:15 PM

Or the club is wound up and FORAS purchase the trading name and lease for Turner's Cross from the liquidator.

Because of the restrictions on the lease there won't be many potential buyers.

I'd imagine they could then apply for membership of the league play in the A League next season if needs be.

I was nearly right, albeit a few months on - Foras should look into buying the name Cork City Football Club from the court appointed liquidator and forget about this Foras Co-Op nonsense