Cork City denied a licence; club to be wound up; FORAS to enter First Division

[danthesaint]

will we have to wait till tuesday week for fixtures?

[CSFShels]

Doubt it, it'll have to be done as Cork/Bray.

[Doomofman]

Can't believe that by 2 weeks before the start of the season we wont even know what teams will be in the league...

[SkStu]

Right, can't defend them anymore

Feel fre to unleash whatever fury you like on the "ndependent" licensing committee

*thanks*

[tippex]

and we wonder why the barstoolers are constantly saying "I'm not going to watch that ****e" when the administrators of our sport deal with things like this...

[Roo69]

Is it really worth all the hassle though if you know there's no way you can survive?. No team likes to be humiliated so there'd be a temptation to try and find some extra cash somewhere. How much could you realisitically expect to make from extra away fans over the season? 30-40k maybe?. It's a tough call as you say.

Dropping to the first division will mean a drop of €70k on our gates, believe me if we are given the chance of Premier football we will be playing in the Premier.

Rovers, Bohs and Pats are Bray's very big money earners, playing them only increases Bray's home crowd no matter how bad we are doing and these clubs always bring fantastic away support to the Carlisle.

I've it from a club official that if offered we will be playing in the Premier.

Plenty of players still out there available who we could bring into the club in time with plenty of experience. Our squad is very young but very capable, add 3/4/5 experienced players and we will compete with any club, we wont win the League obviously but we'll give the likes of Galway, UCD, Drogheda etc a run for their money

[Doomofman]

So the soap opera continues

[harry crumb]

Looks to me like a happy ending to a terrible day for us City supporters.

I take it that the week delay means that a Premier License will be granted to the new owners.

Soon enough we will be able to talk about actual football for a change.

[BonnieShels]

I don't know what to say.

Done. Absolutely done.

[dcfc1928]

Looks to me like a happy ending to a terrible day for us City supporters.

I take it that the week delay means that a Premier License will be granted to the new owners.

Soon enough we will be able to talk about actual football for a change.

Do you think you deserve a place in the Premier Division?

[harry crumb]

Well if we come to agreement with our creditors, then, yes.

[CSFShels]

Well if we come to agreement with our creditors, then, yes.
Even though its after the licencing deadline? And a special 1 has been drafted up just for yous? You're having a laugh.

[higgins]

Well if we come to agreement with our creditors, then, yes.

well that would contradict what they have done to other clubs in the past??

I don't care which way they do it but atleast have one set of rules for everyone, no?

[weecountyman]

That link isn't working, I can't find the facebook page either. And I've never seen these stories anywhere else apart from when you post them.

You've obviously not been following the saga or trying hard enough RoryH!!! See below! Just stuck these in to show I haven't been dreaming or nightmaring or whatever. Strange to think I thought Roddy was cool when I was a kid in Oriel, still, it was probably the aromatic scents from the brewery :-)


It is in another thread, but Roddy according to today's star wnats to bring Glen Crowe and Liam Kearney to City .

http://www.independent.com.mt/news.asp?newsitemid=99144


I really thought things couldn't get any worse in this soap opera, but then Coughlan goes an appoints this shameless chancer!!:( I echo the sentiments of fbtn above about this mess.

Seems like Floriana have a good case for compo too and are determined to hold out for it!

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/1223/corkcity.html

Floriana are on facebook on 3 different pages, afaik, one is locked to invitees only (the club release to supporters via that, the other two are open. A few other posters on here would know at least one, more than a few Shamrock Rovers supporters are on it.

[The Lilywhites]

Well if we come to agreement with our creditors, then, yes.

Unbelievable.

[harry crumb]

Even though its after the licencing deadline? And a special 1 has been drafted up just for yous? You're having a laugh.

These are special circumstances no?

[CSFShels]

These are special circumstances no?
What is special about these circumstances? You've messed around for the last 12 months, paying no1, messing everyone around, now your idiot ex-owner has realised yous arent getting a licence with him owning the club, so now hes selling up, he couldn't do it in time for licencing, his tough luck. If your club had tried to run itself as a business in the previous 12 months, there wouldn't be such a mad rush today.

[Nesta99]

Looks to me like a happy ending to a terrible day for us City supporters.

I take it that the week delay means that a Premier License will be granted to the new owners.

Soon enough we will be able to talk about actual football for a change.

Maybe, but leaves a bitter taste for others!
Current owner has managed to secure the funds from the sale of an asset, this will pay one creditor to allow the transfer of all other debts to prospective owners. So for all the messing, and total disregard for everything, Coghlan gets an out on his terms and may receive payment for his trouble. I would have liked to see a fairer outcome.
Add to this the contempt that the FAI and the ILC have shown for their own rules and processes, their lack of even handedness when dealing with clubs, extended deadline after deadline to accommodate a club that allegedly is being dragged before the CAS, what are the thinking? All this to prevent imo what would be a temporary change to the geographic spread of the premier division.
This almost blackmail sounding 'condition' for a premier license or the takeover bid will be pulled doesnt sit too easy either. There is plenty of mileage in this fiasco yet.
Happy ending? dunno bout that!

[harry crumb]

Special circumstances is that the club is subject to a takeover by a consortium including a fans Co-op.

[paudie]

The obvious decision was for the FAI to deny CCIFL a licence and give FORAS a Div 1 licence. They have fudged on the basis that the Revenue and other football creditors have a better chance of being paid this way. Basically the new consortium have forced the FAI's hand by saying they are only interested in a Prem Div licence.

At the very least if City get a Prem licence next we should have a substantial points deduction.

[SkStu]

Special circumstances is that the club is subject to a takeover by a consortium including a fans Co-op.

and so the revisionism starts... shameful that theres even one CCFC fan on here with the neck to even try to start justifying this f*cking sham.

[naoise kennedy]

bray granted premier licence...

[yiddo]

http://www.corkcityforasco-op.com

[Doomofman]

Is the team seriously gonna be called Cork City Foras Co-op?

[SkStu]

i thougth it was corkcityfiasco-op.com

[kid creole]

Im dumbfounded

[Scrufil]

Okay so next year if your club is having trouble with getting a licence you and 5 mates ring the club and offer to take it over for say €5. The club says to the licence committee we are 'in take-over talks' so the date has to be extended due to this 'special circumstance'. If one of your mates has to pay a parking fine around the same time all the better - say that this was incurred during your duty to the football club and until wages come into his account please can they delay the decision further.

This might sound like fantasy but it is the precedent just set out by the FAI.

[dong]

Okay so next year if your club is having trouble with getting a licence you and 5 mates ring the club and offer to take it over for say €5. The club says to the licence committee we are 'in take-over talks' so the date has to be extended due to this 'special circumstance'. If one of your mates has to pay a parking fine around the same time all the better - say that this was incurred during your duty to the football club and until wages come into his account please can they delay the decision further.

This might sound like fantasy but it is the precedent just set out by the FAI.

In a nutshell...
F ucking joke. This whole thing would make you sick.

[dong]

And FORAS have shown their true colours too. Full of pompous,condescending talk and hot air when really they are dirty little sluts, willing to hop into bed with any Tom, Dick or Harry.

[srfc1928]

So sick of this.
Ive been following the LOI for 25 years, but this is rock bottom stuff.
This really does prove that there is one set of rules for certain 'big' clubs and another set for the rest of us.
Its hard enough to watch match officials consistently give biased decisions towards these clubs or turn a blind eye when theyve done wrong on the pitch. But the administrators are worse.
These inconsistencies and bias on and off the pitch really does make you think why bother.
In my ignorance, this is the first time Ive realised the LOI has no future.

[weecountyman]

And FORAS have shown their true colours too. Full of pompous,condescending talk and hot air when really they are dirty little sluts, willing to hop into bed with any Tom, Dick or Harry.

Now that is a horrible image for me to hold onto before bedtime, oh no!

[dong]

Now that is a horrible image for me to hold onto before bedtime, oh no!

Maybe somebody can find that picture of the Cork fans in the pub that was doing the rounds a while back...

My point is though, they have no real knowledge of what this consortium is going to bring to the table. They have learned nothing and are willing to forget all that went before in order to secure PD football for Cork City.
The way this is going to be rushed through leaves little doubt in my mind that thay will be up sh!t creek again in no time.

[HammerNThongs]

I cant believe there is one City fan thinking that this is just. I am ashamed.

For the record, dont agree with the bashing of the consortium or FORAS

[sheao]

I am starting to feel that with the new Cork City FORAS co-op site dat a FORAS run side in the 1st division is more likely than 1 in the premier under the consortium. It would be a complete joke on the FAI's part if we were awarded a premier division licence imo after the mess that are club is in .

[Longfordian]

Interesting post from political rebel on the Cork forum, which I hope he doesn't mind me quoting on here. Seems like Tom is definitely playing games.


Long frustrating day banging my head off a brick wall does not even start to describe the day I and other BoM members have put down....8 ******* hours sitting around tryin to get this deal done...

Brinkmanship is a word often used when describing TNB but today that term was brought to a whole new level...

TNB signs a share purchase agreement and I honestly think he was under the impression we would all get down on bended knee and start thanking him...Did he actually think we would sign it straight away without due diligence?...Does he think FORAS are some brain dead group of supporters who can be hoodwinked by his theatrics?...

There was no way we were signing that agreement unless we verified the list of creditors presented to us...8 hours waiting for a club representative to attend the meeting so we could start verifying the creditors list and no one turns up despite the person telling us he was on the way!...

Tommy played chicken today and thought we would blink first...I think it is safe to say he got his answer and can be under no illusion now that this deal is not going through unless CCIFL start co-operating and sit down and discuss the issues we need clarified...

Ball is in your court again Tom me old chum!...

[pól-dcfc]

Farcical

[El-Pietro]

What is special about these circumstances? Tom Coughlan has messed around for the last 12 months, paying no1, messing everyone around, now your idiot ex-owner has realised he will be left with nothing but a liquidated club, so now hes selling up, he couldn't do it in time for licencing, his tough luck. If your club had tried to run itself as a business in the previous 12 months, there wouldn't be such a mad rush today.
This is all tom coughlan, we have tried to do everything to get him to act quicker. He is finally giving in, though I'm sure there will be twists yet.

The new owners, Mr. Gray, Mr. O'Connell and FORAS never wanted it to come to this, FORAS especially have done everything in our power first of all to keep the club afloat and in recent times to get Tom Coughlan out.
We will now be in a position where no budgets can be agreed without our say so, this will not happen again. We're not even going to be any good this season! Its going to be a massive relegation struggle!


Maybe, but leaves a bitter taste for others!
Current owner has managed to secure the funds from the sale of an asset, this will pay one creditor to allow the transfer of all other debts to prospective owners. So for all the messing, and total disregard for everything, Coghlan gets an out on his terms and may receive payment for his trouble. I would have liked to see a fairer outcome.
Add to this the contempt that the FAI and the ILC have shown for their own rules and processes, their lack of even handedness when dealing with clubs, extended deadline after deadline to accommodate a club that allegedly is being dragged before the CAS, what are the thinking? All this to prevent imo what would be a temporary change to the geographic spread of the premier division.
This almost blackmail sounding 'condition' for a premier license or the takeover bid will be pulled doesnt sit too easy either. There is plenty of mileage in this fiasco yet.
Happy ending? dunno bout that!
Pay a bit more attention will you, the mad fecker is only getting �100. No more, no less.

[dong]

This is all tom coughlan, we have tried to do everything to get him to act quicker. He is finally giving in, though I'm sure there will be twists yet.

We're not even going to be any good this season! Its going to be a massive relegation struggle!

My heart bleeds for ye...
Other clubs have stuck to the rules and barely survived relegation. It's called living within your means.
What a crowd of idiots FORAS really are. If you lot had spent less time constructing web sites on which to spout your condescending rubbish and more time trying to figure out what Coughlan was doing, maybe he wouldn't have ran rings around you for so long.
Best of luck with the new consortium. I'm sure FORAS have it well researched.

[Fr Damo]

Fr Damo what has Athlone Town got to do with the muddle Cork are in? Why stop paying due to people who are in their own little 'Republic'?

I know no other way to protest. I will return my season ticket with a letter that can be passed on to abbotstown, or binned. It's up to ATFC what they do with it. At the moment is is not sport becuase not every team has the equal chance when there is human interference. It's called cheating in other codes.

In it's current guise this league is all but finished imo and needs a radical change. FYI, I'm all for a 16 team top division and reginal non league divisions like they have in england, Blue sq north, blue sq south etc etc.

[razor]

I must apologise to fans of all other clubs. The "Independent" licensing committee bottled it.
I'm so sick of it all at this stage, give Tom the money to pay the taxman but deny him a licence and let him rot in hell.

I'm worried if Tom gets the Long money that the taxman won't see it.
I'm not a violent man but I'm also worried that if I meet Coughlan face to face that I won't be able to control myself.

[WoodquayBoy]

From a United point of view, this sickens me as other posters have said. We tried to stay within the rules, had to sell half our squad (the likes of Gary Deegan and Regi Nooitmeer) midseason in 2008 to get costs down and come under the 65% cap, and then this kind of thing happens with the FAI, Licensing Committee and Cork City? Joke, utter joke, I mean, why do we bother . . . .

[tiktok]

There was sufficient money in a bank account yesterday morning [controlled by the Solicitor's representing FORAS, Gray and O'Connell] to pay the revenue bill at 11.00am and satisfy all outstanding footballing debts ahead of lunchtime if Coughlan had engaged with the negotiations and played ball. He chose to ignore all that and stick his brass neck out, no one chose to chop.

Coughlan and his solicitors got an offer at 6pm Friday, meetings were requested throughout the weekend by the consortium solicitors and no-one from Coughlan's side made themselves available until yesterday morning. The revenue could have gotten a winding up order yesterday, a licence could [and let's face it, should] have been denied later in the day. None of that had to be the situation, more brinkmanship by Coughlan, dragging it out to the death and leaving a mess of crap all around him. The timing is a bitch, but I do believe that the people on the licencing committee did look, as the statement said, on limiting the chances of the creditors getting burned by a football club, but they equally need to look at the others who are burned and will be burned by the action.

Bray are victims here and it could affect them into next season as, if they decide they may need a stronger squad for a Premier Division challenge, the decision to bump them up would only come next Monday, as the registration deadline for players closes. That could well affect the through the season.

I know what fans of other clubs are saying and I can't/won't disagree or defend.
If the positions held by Bray and Cork City FC were reversed, I'd be absolutely furious.
All I'm feeling this morning though is completely numb.

[razor]

if Coughlan had engaged with the negotiations and played ball. He chose to ignore all that and stick his brass neck outI feared this may happen, everything wasn't going to run smoothly but for these lowlifes not to even engage FORAS is despicable.
PR said it the other night that the only way we can buy the club is if Tom is willing to sell and i'm not sure he is.

Seems like he is so desperate to get a few bob for himself that he's willing to risk it going under rather than see it saved now.

[OneRedArmy]

I may be missing something, but admidst all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, didn't Celdrog provide the closest to an "answer" as to why the Licensing Committee deferred their decision (a quote from the Licensing Manual that allowed for deferral where a particular issue was sub judice).

Clearly if natural justice, fairness and equality ruled, TNB would have tarred and feathered a long time ago, BUT it is standard practice, where something is sub judice, for an administrative process to defer decisioning until the legal process has run its course. You may not like it, but it is the way things work in most areas, not just sports. Administrative rules are subservient to the law and everyone has a right to due process, no matter how repulsive their actions are (i.e. Tom).

This thread is full of experts on the Licensing process many of whom I guarantee couldn't find the Licensing manual, never mind profess to know it. I've known people who've sat on the Independent Licensing Committee and they are that, independent professionals who have nothing to gain by fudging or taking a decision that favours one party or another.

[Longfordian]

They broke plenty of rules that weren't sub judice such as the 65% rule "automatic relegation" according to Padraig Smith. There's also no getting around the fact that they've overdue payments to employees. Again a Licence breaker. There's more than enough there to punish them without taking the tax bill into consideration including their disregard for all deadlines.

[HammerNThongs]

My heart bleeds for ye...
Other clubs have stuck to the rules and barely survived relegation. It's called living within your means.
What a crowd of idiots FORAS really are. If you lot had spent less time constructing web sites on which to spout your condescending rubbish and more time trying to figure out what Coughlan was doing, maybe he wouldn't have ran rings around you for so long.
Best of luck with the new consortium. I'm sure FORAS have it well researched.

We had a fair idea what Coughlan was doing. I think you will find it's the FAI that let us down. We all had a feeling that Coughlan would dick around on the last day, but we had some bit of faith after all the ****e that the FAI have splurted at us that they could come down on Coughlan and come down hard and also that the licensing committee uninfluenced by the FAI. Here is where the blame lies. Coughlan for committing the crimes, the FAI for being too pathetic to police him. FORAS and the consortium spent all yesterday being lied to about accounts and books that we have been trying to get off of TNB for over 12 months.

[Roo69]

Bray are victims here and it could affect them into next season as, if they decide they may need a stronger squad for a Premier Division challenge, the decision to bump them up would only come next Monday, as the registration deadline for players closes. That could well affect the through the season.

I had stated in a previous post that there was still plenty of time to sign players up if we were offered a place in the Premier but I didn’t realise the transfer window shuts on Monday… Now I’m beyond angry knowing this.

If we are offered a place in the Premier Division, the FAI have but no other option to extend the transfer deadline for us. At present we do not have a budget to bring in new players but playing in the Premier will give us a lot of extra revenue to play around with and be able to bring in more experienced players. Only finding out on Monday that we are playing in the Premier Division is just not good enough and then finding out the window is closed and that we can't sign any players because of their own stupidity. Nothing shocks me anymore when talking about the FAI.

[osarusan]

I may be missing something, but admidst all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, didn't Celdrog provide the closest to an "answer" as to why the Licensing Committee deferred their decision.
Would you think that the suggestion that the decision has been deferred as a way to ensure Revenue gets paid is way out?

I think most people on here think that the Licensing committee deferring their decision means that Cork will eventually get a PD licence.

I honestly don't think they will myself. After the deferral I expect their application for a PD licence to be rejected, even if that means any proposed takeover falls through and Cork effectively fold. FORAS will get their licence and football in Cork will live on.

[Dodge]

Clearly if natural justice, fairness and equality ruled, TNB would have tarred and feathered a long time ago, BUT it is standard practice, where something is sub judice, for an administrative process to defer decisioning until the legal process has run its course. You may not like it, but it is the way things work in most areas, not just sports. Administrative rules are subservient to the law and everyone has a right to due process, no matter how repulsive their actions are (i.e. Tom)

If that was the reason for the decision on licence being deferred, they'd have clearly stated that.

Instead the press release spoke about the takeover.

[derm]

I may be missing something, but admidst all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, didn't Celdrog provide the closest to an "answer" as to why the Licensing Committee deferred their decision (a quote from the Licensing Manual that allowed for deferral where a particular issue was sub judice).

Clearly if natural justice, fairness and equality ruled, TNB would have tarred and feathered a long time ago, BUT it is standard practice, where something is sub judice, for an administrative process to defer decisioning until the legal process has run its course. You may not like it, but it is the way things work in most areas, not just sports. Administrative rules are subservient to the law and everyone has a right to due process, no matter how repulsive their actions are (i.e. Tom).

This thread is full of experts on the Licensing process many of whom I guarantee couldn't find the Licensing manual, never mind profess to know it. I've known people who've sat on the Independent Licensing Committee and they are that, independent professionals who have nothing to gain by fudging or taking a decision that favours one party or another.

Great post. I haven't read the licensing manual but I'd expect that there are many such loopholes and get outs in it. Should the consortium succeed then I'm fully sure the new Cork City will be punished but it will be less than what most LoI fans will want. For the record, I agree that a premier license should not be awarded, but I'm pretty sure that it can be fudged perfectly legitimately within the rules. And while I don't doubt the independence of the licensing committee I'm sure that advice from the FAI would be considered.

But as a Foras member my over-riding duty is to the saving of my club. If the club gets a premier license the consortium takes over. If not Foras runs a club in the first. There may be further penalties and conditions but to be honest that's up to the FAI's licensing process.