Cork City denied a licence; club to be wound up; FORAS to enter First Division

[OneRedArmy]

Unlike most people on here, I honestly don't profess to know what will happen.

To me its clear there is an incentive for the FAI to ensure there is a team in the League from Cork city (small c), in some way shape or form. Thats not in doubt.

That said, I'm not at all clear there is any incentive whatsoever for the INDEPENDENT licensing authority to fudge it. They have all professional reputations and are presumably getting paid a relatively small amount, therefore there is almost no upside and a huge potential downside (their reputation) to them not following the process.

[pineapple stu]

Unlike most people on here, I honestly don't profess to know what will happen.
Anyone who says they know what'll happen here is lying.

Even on the Cork forum, there's a post at 9am this morning saying the documents for the due diligence haven't arrived.

I do think though that you're overstating how independent the ILC are, and how little people outside the LoI care what happens. I can't imagine many people getting a new accountant because their current one, Mr P Smith, gave Cork a licence. I was also amused by how many times the word "Independent" appears in FAI press releases (think the acronym is rarely used because we have to know the Independent Licencing Committee is Independent)

If the window closes on Monday, Cork are screwed anyway with hardly any players signed (at least until the mid-season transfer window anyway). It seems possible that the best thing for FORAS to do is to withdraw from the takeover, accept a First Division licence from the FAI and spend the coming week trying to put together some sort of competitive team.

[Longfordian]

If they were following their own process they shouldn't be taking into account a takeover that may or may not happen in the future. It's been said many times by those involved in the process when seeking to justify their decisions that the Licence is almost a snapshot of how a club's affairs look on a particular date and they can only go on what's submitted.

[blackholesun]

But as a Foras member my over-riding duty is to the saving of my club. If the club gets a premier license the consortium takes over. If not Foras runs a club in the first. There may be further penalties and conditions but to be honest that's up to the FAI's licensing process.

The consortium seem to me to be chancing their arm here and playing the kinda games that TNB has been playing ... cant blaim them for chancing their arm but it is a bit cheeky!

In my opinion, I think the long term future of CCFC would best be served by a spell in the first division under the control of Foras where they can rebuild properly from scratch.

bhs

[Dodge]

Fair point ORA, but the licensing committee, are basically only there to rubber stamp the FAI's decision. The FAI informed clubs last week of their "likely" verdict, and AFAIK the licensing committee have not once gone against the FAI's "projection"

[derm]

The consortium seem to me to be chancing their arm here and playing the kinda games that TNB has been playing ... cant blaim them for chancing their arm but it is a bit cheeky!

In my opinion, I think the long term future of CCFC would best be served by a spell in the first division under the control of Foras where they can rebuild properly from scratch.

bhs

There's no point in taking over the debts if no license is to awarded, and it appears that the license application is failing on the financial side; so insisting on a premier license is more of a gun to Tom's head than the FAI imo, especially as a premier license is no guarantee of premier status.

As to what's best, the remaining time makes it difficult for either option. Team, sponsors, manager (?), coaches, training ground, pitch, etc etc will have to be found or renegotiated with, plus thousands of of other details that have yet to be thought of. In the premier there's a chance that the players that Shoddy has sniffing around may sign, they may not in the first. Given the amount to be done in such a short time I think it a real possibility that we could be fighting relegation in the first.

[tippex]

There's no point in taking over the debts if no license is to awarded, and it appears that the license application is failing on the financial side; so insisting on a premier license is more of a gun to Tom's head than the FAI imo, especially as a premier license is no guarantee of premier status.

As to what's best, the remaining time makes it difficult for either option. Team, sponsors, manager (?), coaches, training ground, pitch, etc etc will have to be found or renegotiated with, plus thousands of of other details that have yet to be thought of. In the premier there's a chance that the players that Shoddy has sniffing around may sign, they may not in the first. Given the amount to be done in such a short time I think it a real possibility that we could be fighting relegation in the first.

Derm your points above also apply to us.
ok maybe not on the manager/training ground end of things but certainly on the sponsors and players.

With our current squad we would be cannon fodder in the premier and we would need to sign about 6 decent players to be competitive in the premier. We cannot do this until we know what division we are playing in.
Also it is tough securing sponsors at the best of times but I'm sure there are sponsors who would be happy to be on board if we were in the premier but less so if we are in the first.

[pineapple stu]

There's no point in taking over the debts if no license is to awarded
So why isn't the takeover pending the receipt of any licence? Why specify a Premier licence?

[centre mid]

Its my understanding that we have been planning all along and budgeting for first division football, the club was always going to get a premier licence but of course that doesnt qualify you to play in the premier divison. Its galling the situation that presents itself that the governing body cant make a deadline and stick to it and it make a mockery of not only the licencing process but of the league in general. The fai were applaueded for the way they handled the Derry contracts but have again lost a good chunk of credibility with these last few weeks have panned out. There has been little if any communication from them (presume that clubs were being kept up to date unoffically).

[dcfcsteve]

Why don't FORAS just bring the whole farce to an end now - withdraw their support from the existing CCFC on the grounds of the ongoing impasse, let it collapse, and then start afresh in the Firs Division with a democratic fan-owned club ?

Yes - it may mean creditors not getting honoured, but there's a strong possibility of that not happening anyway with the current never-ending brinkmanship saga, so what's the deifference ? Plus - the 'new' Cork City could do what the new DCFC did and voluntarily seek to honour some of the old club's financial commitments anyway.

As for European football - the club will be a shell if it gets that far, so is in danger of putting in a 1980's LOI performance anyway.

I know the usual heads will whinge about what happened about City, but at least what happened to our club happened quickly and everyone was able to move on. The Cork farce was already months old when our problems came out, and months later the zombie corpse is still staggering on headless whilst our situation is long sorted.

[yiddo]

Why don't FORAS just bring the whole farce to an end now - withdraw their support from the existing CCFC on the grounds of the ongoing impasse, let it collapse, and then start afresh in the Firs Division with a democratic fan-owned club ?

Yes - it may mean creditors not getting honoured, but there's a strong possibility of that not happening anyway with the current never-ending brinkmanship saga, so what's the deifference ? Plus - the 'new' Cork City could do what the new DCFC did and voluntarily seek to honour some of the old club's financial commitments anyway.

As for European football - the club will be a shell if it gets that far, so is in danger of putting in a 1980's LOI performance anyway.

I know the usual heads will whinge about what happened about City, but at least what happened to our club happened quickly and everyone was able to move on. The Cork farce was already months old when our problems came out, and months later the zombie corpse is still staggering on headless whilst our situation is long sorted.#

FORAS board of management can't withdraw without a mandate from the FORAS members. The mandate the b.o.m. was gven last Friday night to ener into a consortium wih O'Connel and Grey still stands.

[kid creole]

Seems like your spitting the dummy unless you get prem football , a guy over on btid kinda sums up th foras attitude when he said


Because it would make no sense whatsoever to buy a club that's not guaranteed a Premier Division licence, when we could take up our First Division licence, without the added debt.

[dcfcsteve]

#

FORAS board of management can't withdraw without a mandate from the FORAS members. The mandate the b.o.m. was gven last Friday night to ener into a consortium wih O'Connel and Grey still stands.

That throws up more questons than it answers though to be honest.

- What mandate from the members did the FORAS BoM have beforehand ? If none, why didn't they seek one earlier ? This has been going on for months.
- FORAS have had a league application in since approx November (?) so the possibility of setting-up a fan-run club has been live since then. Why hasn't it been progressed in the meantime from concept to reality ? It seems that FORAS have been hoping that everything would just work out with the current club, and the fan-run idea was only a doomsday scenario. Events have suggested it may have been better treated as a runner from the start.
- I'm sure the FORAS membership voted on whatever mandates were presented to them by the BoM. Therefore - whilst it's easy to say 'this is the membership mandate', I suspect it was a mandate that the BoM actively proposed/sought. If so - then it's their own mandate. If not - what were the circumstances behind that mandate ?

As I said, more questions than answers.

[dcfcsteve]

Seems like your spitting the dummy unless you get prem football , a guy over on btid kinda sums up th foras attitude when he said

So it's all a gamble to keep Premier Division football ? Regardless of the damage being caused to the existing club in the pursuit of that aim ?

Derry City found a lot of new goodwill emerged locally once the old Wellvan club was killed-off. It would probably have been the same with a swift euthanasia of the old Cork and a focus on a new fan-run one. But it's difficult to think of any good that has come out of the saga of last few months for Cork City to be honest, and it's probably just alienated some natural goodwill locally.

[yiddo]

That throws up more questons than it answers though to be honest.

- What mandate from the members did the FORAS BoM have beforehand ? If none, why didn't they seek one earlier ? This has been going on for months.
- FORAS have had a league application in since approx November (?) so the possibility of setting-up a fan-run club has been live since then. Why hasn't it been progressed in the meantime from concept to reality ? It seems that FORAS have been hoping that everything would just work out with the current club, and the fan-run idea was only a doomsday scenario. Events have suggested it may have been better treated as a runner from the start.
- I'm sure the FORAS membership voted on whatever mandates were presented to them by the BoM. Therefore - whilst it's easy to say 'this is the membership mandate', I suspect it was a mandate that the BoM actively proposed/sought. If so - then it's their own mandate. If not - what were the circumstances behind that mandate ?

As I said, more questions than answers.

the offer to join the consortium only came on Tuesday last week. On Friday night we voted on several other motions relating to the setting up of a foras run div 1 club but that option has always been a fallback position if the current club failed to get a licence. As for the BOMs position on the consortium just like the rest of the members some are in favour and some are against. I know of at least 2 who like me voted against it and would have prefered to go down the totally run supporters club in division 1.

[tippex]

the offer to join the consortium only came on Tuesday last week. On Friday night we voted on several other motions relating to the setting up of a foras run div 1 club but that option has always been a fallback position if the current club failed to get a licence. As for the BOMs position on the consortium just like the rest of the members some are in favour and some are against. I know of at least 2 who like me voted against it and would have prefered to go down the totally run supporters club in division 1.

Yiddo just out of interest are you in a position to give details on the percentage that voted in favour?

[yiddo]

Yiddo just out of interest are you in a position to give details on the percentage that voted in favour?

was sitting at the back of the room and thought it was slightly over 2 to 1 in favour.

[HammerNThongs]

was sitting at the back of the room and thought it was slightly over 2 to 1 in favour.

I would have said about the same. Perhaps a little more.

[passerrby]

I may be missing something, but admidst all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, didn't Celdrog provide the closest to an "answer" as to why the Licensing Committee deferred their decision (a quote from the Licensing Manual that allowed for deferral where a particular issue was sub judice).

Clearly if natural justice, fairness and equality ruled, TNB would have tarred and feathered a long time ago, BUT it is standard practice, where something is sub judice, for an administrative process to defer decisioning until the legal process has run its course. You may not like it, but it is the way things work in most areas, not just sports. Administrative rules are subservient to the law and everyone has a right to due process, no matter how repulsive their actions are (i.e. Tom).

This thread is full of experts on the Licensing process many of whom I guarantee couldn't find the Licensing manual, never mind profess to know it. I've known people who've sat on the Independent Licensing Committee and they are that, independent professionals who have nothing to gain by fudging or taking a decision that favours one party or another.

Cor city have broken more rules and deadlines than a pakistan traindriver this delay is nothing more than a attempt to keep cork in premier football and to ensure some creditors get there mone back i would not impune the integraty of the licence committe but i dont belkieve anything in abbotstown is independant.
if this was any number of clubs other than the super six they would have been gone.

[micls]

- What mandate from the members did the FORAS BoM have beforehand ? If none, why didn't they seek one earlier ? This has been going on for months.

Previous mandates were to withdraw support for Coughlan and to apply for the first division licence
-
FORAS have had a league application in since approx November (?) so the possibility of setting-up a fan-run club has been live since then. Why hasn't it been progressed in the meantime from concept to reality ? It seems that FORAS have been hoping that everything would just work out with the current club, and the fan-run idea was only a doomsday scenario. Events have suggested it may have been better treated as a runner from the start.

It was made very clear from the start that the FORAS licence application was a fallback. That said, all the work needed to get a licence and to be ready if granted the licence all still had to be done.

Weve never claimed otherwise than to hope it worked out for the current entity, that was always our number one aim, as per our rules.

- I'm sure the FORAS membership voted on whatever mandates were presented to them by the BoM. Therefore - whilst it's easy to say 'this is the membership mandate', I suspect it was a mandate that the BoM actively proposed/sought. If so - then it's their own mandate. If not - what were the circumstances behind that mandate ?
Rubbish.

When a proposal is put to the BOM it is then put to members.

The deal was presented to members in a completely unbiased way and explained by someone with a legal background.
Then a member of the BOM spoke for the deal and another member of the BOM spoke against.
The floor was open to discussion and that continued for hours.

In the end it was voted on and some of the BOM voted for, some against and some abstained, like all the other members.

[disgruntled]

Last Friday was a very strange evening, I had a look of amazement when our chairman announced that the meeting may take 3 or 4 hours but it just flew by. There was a lot of emotion on show and credit must be given to the FORAS BOM, they have put in tremendous amount of work.

I am coming in late on this thread but what you have said is exactly how I feel about it as well. As a member of FORAS I will always support the majority view even though my own view may differ.


The very fact you just said that you still do not know the actual debt is crazy,who exactly decided the club was worth 500k-as it stands you have few players worth talking about,still no ground and do not know what division you will be in.People cant be that attached to a club with a small history I mean its only 25 years old.Cork City FC or FC Cork City who gives a sh*t

A lot of people in Cork actually care a lot about history & if yo were a member of FORAS you would know a lot more. Don't believe everything someone tells you.


If I was in the FAI and was told something like that I'd just let them rot in the first division...

But you're not in the FAI fortunately for us.

[Réiteoir]

Maybe somebody can find that picture of the Cork fans in the pub that was doing the rounds a while back...

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2703/corkr.jpg

There we are

[White Horse]

Dundalk FC appear to be the first club to break silence on the Cork City licence scandal.

"It is entirely laudable that the FAI are considerate of creditors, but this is a step too far. It is pretty obvious that Cork City do not hold the required tax clearance certificate at the close-off date, and that the rules and regulations are being applied unevenly. We have no wish for any club to be denied a rightful place in the league, and have empathy for Bray Wanderers and their supporters in the current uncertainty. In relation to the Europa League, we expect to be nominated as the League of Ireland's third representative and we will be making our feelings known in no uncertain terms to the FAI.
The additional ambiguity about our initial series of fixtures is an inconvenience for the club and it's supporters, although Europa League nomination and the application of fair play are the fundamental issues. We expect the FAI and the Independent Club Licensing Committee to do the right thing when eventually the decisions are finally announced."

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/2883/

[Longfordian]

Fair play to them. Delaney won't be happy, he doesn't usually like clubs sticking their heads up above the parapet in these matters.

[Roo69]

Fair play to Dundalk FC. At least one club has the balls to come out and speak the truth.

I wonder will others follow suit?

[tippex]

Dundalk FC appear to be the first club to break silence on the Cork City licence scandal.

"It is entirely laudable that the FAI are considerate of creditors, but this is a step too far. It is pretty obvious that Cork City do not hold the required tax clearance certificate at the close-off date, and that the rules and regulations are being applied unevenly. We have no wish for any club to be denied a rightful place in the league, and have empathy for Bray Wanderers and their supporters in the current uncertainty. In relation to the Europa League, we expect to be nominated as the League of Ireland's third representative and we will be making our feelings known in no uncertain terms to the FAI.
The additional ambiguity about our initial series of fixtures is an inconvenience for the club and it's supporters, although Europa League nomination and the application of fair play are the fundamental issues. We expect the FAI and the Independent Club Licensing Committee to do the right thing when eventually the decisions are finally announced."

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/2883/
Thats quite a ballsy statement from Dundalk and as a LOI fan (not just a Bray fan) I applaud you.

[John83]

In a reverse of the traditional gladatorial call: we salute you Dundalk, who are about to die.

[disgruntled]

What is special about these circumstances? You've messed around for the last 12 months, paying no1, messing everyone around, now your idiot ex-owner has realised yous arent getting a licence with him owning the club, so now hes selling up, he couldn't do it in time for licencing, his tough luck. If your club had tried to run itself as a business in the previous 12 months, there wouldn't be such a mad rush today.

You obviously don't know Coughlan ? Come & live here for a while & you'll soon understand. The most hated man in Cork soccer & elsewhere.

[WoodquayBoy]

Never thought I'd say this but . . . well done Dundalk FC.
As for the concerns of Bray and Cork fans regarding signing players and the transfer deadline, correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm not), but the deadline is in relation to signing players on the books of another club. Out of work players can still be signed after this date, which seems to be a hell of a lot of players. Granted, I would imagine the better players will have been signed by Feb 22, but it doesn't mean club's can't strenghten their squads with non contracted players

[razor]

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2703/corkr.jpg

There we areYiddo should have copyrighted that one. :D

[derm]

Derm your points above also apply to us.
ok maybe not on the manager/training ground end of things but certainly on the sponsors and players.

With our current squad we would be cannon fodder in the premier and we would need to sign about 6 decent players to be competitive in the premier. We cannot do this until we know what division we are playing in.
Also it is tough securing sponsors at the best of times but I'm sure there are sponsors who would be happy to be on board if we were in the premier but less so if we are in the first.

Totally accept that. Either way you can't prepare properly for next season. Totally crap situation and I'm not making any excuses.


So why isn't the takeover pending the receipt of any licence? Why specify a Premier licence?

Sorry - O'Connell and Gray definitely want a team in the premier, end of. My point was that if the financial side is the only thing wrong with the application and the consortium agree to pay it, it puts pressure on Tom (the sports fan who invested 1m of his own money) to just get the feck out. FAI can award premier licence and still relegate the club.


Why don't FORAS just bring the whole farce to an end now - withdraw their support from the existing CCFC on the grounds of the ongoing impasse, let it collapse, and then start afresh in the Firs Division with a democratic fan-owned club ?

Yes - it may mean creditors not getting honoured, but there's a strong possibility of that not happening anyway with the current never-ending brinkmanship saga, so what's the deifference ? Plus - the 'new' Cork City could do what the new DCFC did and voluntarily seek to honour some of the old club's financial commitments anyway.

As for European football - the club will be a shell if it gets that far, so is in danger of putting in a 1980's LOI performance anyway.

I know the usual heads will whinge about what happened about City, but at least what happened to our club happened quickly and everyone was able to move on. The Cork farce was already months old when our problems came out, and months later the zombie corpse is still staggering on headless whilst our situation is long sorted.

Exactly. What happened to Derry did happen quickly. If only we were so lucky! To pull out now would be spun as Foras killing the club. The local newspaper has printed numerous pro-Coughlan stories and made some editorial decisions that were damaging to Foras and protests against his regime. I'm of no doubt how this would be spun.

Secondly, the aim of Foras is to ensure the survival of the club. It's in the mandate and most members wanted to exhaust this avenue before starting up a new club, without the name or history of its supporters.

[SkStu]

fair play to Dundalk for the release. They have a legitimate expectation to a euro place and they are just doing what they need to do to protect that. Its to be admired. I hope it puts pressure on Delaney to put pressure on the Independent Licensing Committee to DO THE RIGHT THING!

[yiddo]

Yiddo should have copyrighted that one. :D


indeed I should have :D

[pineapple stu]

Shock as Dundalk demand to be given Cork's European spot. Still, fair dues to them.

[Roo69]

Shock as Dundalk demand to be given Cork's European spot. Still, fair dues to them.

Biut it rightfully there spot now

[eamo1]

Hanging up my scarf and not renewing my season ticket.As someone said its bad enough when officals on the pitch make poor decisions that go for the bigger club,you can put those down to "mistakes".However when the administrators of the league favour the bigger clubs too then how is that fair?????????????I wouldnt mind but Galway Utd starting to put together a handy squad,knowing my luck they will do really well this season.I just cant justify though forking out money to support a league where fairness and equality are clearly and blatantly not being shown by those controlling it.

[Mr_Parker]

In a reverse of the traditional gladatorial call: we salute you Dundalk, who are about to die.


Yep, going by the FAI track record on such matters you would be right. 5,000 euros the norm?

[derm]

Shock as Dundalk demand to be given Cork's European spot. Still, fair dues to them.

+1. Whatever happens Dundalk will probably do the league more good in Europe than ourselves. When are the European licences announced?

[Mr_Parker]

I was also amused by how many times the word "Independent" appears in FAI press releases

It enables buck passing at the appropriate moments.

[pineapple stu]

However when the administrators of the league favour the bigger clubs too then how is that fair?????????????
In fairness, I think Galway of all clubs can't complain about the FAI showing favouritism.

[Mr A]

Shock as Dundalk demand to be given Cork's European spot. Still, fair dues to them.

That's the way it's always been in this league- you have to fight your own corner because nobody else will.

I agree with what they've said, but should the view be taken that they are attempting to influence the licensing process involving another club they could be in a certain amount of trouble.

[disgruntled]

My heart bleeds for ye...
Other clubs have stuck to the rules and barely survived relegation. It's called living within your means.
What a crowd of idiots FORAS really are. If you lot had spent less time constructing web sites on which to spout your condescending rubbish and more time trying to figure out what Coughlan was doing, maybe he wouldn't have ran rings around you for so long.
Best of luck with the new consortium. I'm sure FORAS have it well researched.

Perhaps you should get to know FORAS before you start off with the "idiots" bit. Maybe if you lived down here you would have a better understanding of what happened. While I agree with everything you said about living within means etc,there is no call for abuse.

[OneRedArmy]

Hanging up my scarf and not renewing my season ticket.As someone said its bad enough when officals on the pitch make poor decisions that go for the bigger club,you can put those down to "mistakes".However when the administrators of the league favour the bigger clubs too then how is that fair?????????????I wouldnt mind but Galway Utd starting to put together a handy squad,knowing my luck they will do really well this season.I just cant justify though forking out money to support a league where fairness and equality are clearly and blatantly not being shown by those controlling it.Keep us informed of how your boycott goes.

[pineapple stu]

That's the way it's always been in this league- you have to fight your own corner because nobody else will.
Agree with that obviously. I think that's kind of how things worked pre-FAI takeover too (someone else correct me if I'm wrong). Basically, if one club effed around like that, the other clubs would very quickly bring them back into line, because it was they who were being screwed over. A form of MAD (very appropriate for this league!). Now, no-one with any power really cares, so the league can go off into this kind of mess and there's no-one really keeping clubs in check.

[danthesaint]

Hanging up my scarf and not renewing my season ticket.As someone said its bad enough when officals on the pitch make poor decisions that go for the bigger club,you can put those down to "mistakes".However when the administrators of the league favour the bigger clubs too then how is that fair?????????????I wouldnt mind but Galway Utd starting to put together a handy squad,knowing my luck they will do really well this season.I just cant justify though forking out money to support a league where fairness and equality are clearly and blatantly not being shown by those controlling it.

why would you take it out on your own club......... why dont you just take it out on FAI or Club, by not attending matches (internationally or against the corkies??

[disgruntled]

There was sufficient money in a bank account yesterday morning [controlled by the Solicitor's representing FORAS, Gray and O'Connell] to pay the revenue bill at 11.00am and satisfy all outstanding footballing debts ahead of lunchtime if Coughlan had engaged with the negotiations and played ball. He chose to ignore all that and stick his brass neck out, no one chose to chop.

Agree with everything you say. I'm sure there are many who feel the same. Is it any wonder why people won't follow League of Ireland soccer.This league just goes lower & lower.

[Dodge]

I think that's kind of how things worked pre-FAI takeover too (someone else correct me if I'm wrong). Basically, if one club effed around like that, the other clubs would very quickly bring them back into line, because it was they who were being screwed over.
it was more a case of don't ask, don't tell

[WoodquayBoy]

In fairness, I think Galway of all clubs can't complain about the FAI showing favouritism.
Just curious as to your reasoned explanation for this thought of yours? The 'promotion' to the Premier Divison back in 2007? United topped the table ahead of Waterford (with Dundalk coming next) in the criteria, I really doubt the FAI heads sat down and worked out a template that would suit United ahead of everyone else. If you know different, kindly enlighten us (and no, I don't want to get back into this again).
As for eamo1, don't be daft, if I recall correctly you threatened a similar boycott last year. If you don't want to support your local team, you go ahead and join the vast majority moaning from afar, but the League of Ireland family is small enough without this kind of reaction from one of its own

[disgruntled]

I may be missing something, but admidst all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, didn't Celdrog provide the closest to an "answer" as to why the Licensing Committee deferred their decision (a quote from the Licensing Manual that allowed for deferral where a particular issue was sub judice).

I think a lot of the replies have to do with the level of frustration that fans in general are feeling & I can understand it. I do not condone any of the abuse used on here. The Licensing manual is a very long document & well worth the read if one has the time & yes it does cover the eventualities that have occurred here.But try & tell that to fans of some clubs who feel hard done by at a time like this.

[micls]

Fair statement from Dundalk and a ballsy move.