Cork City denied a licence; club to be wound up; FORAS to enter First Division

[Raheny Red]

The demise of Cork City is on a totally different scale to Dublin City. We have a history and a generation that has grown up with the club. Dublin City was still in its infancy.:(


25 years? So were Cork!

[tiktok]

so i asked did FORAS help during the examinership proscess, you said NO

You asked if it was as an official entity to represent the club's interest's. FORAS were not representing the club with the examiner and the High Court. FORAS were an independent, affected third party. So no was the correct answer.


so what did they say to couglan "best of luck tom, but just to let ya know we dont think your the right man for the job"

No, but no statement said he was the right man either, FORAS always made it clear that the choice was the examiners and FORAS would support and seek to work with whoever he chose.


you say theyve saved the clubs thousands, asking noting in return, there a Supporters Club, wouldnt be a very good SC if they asked for there money back,
FORAS isn't a supporters club, it's a legally registered industrial and providental society, a not-for-profit limited company with directors bound by Irish Company Law. I wasn't talking about getting money back.


thats fair enough that they sponsor the team and are printing programs, see i didnt know that, and you bit my head of explaining it, is that how your gonna convince fans to follow a new club if FORAS form one
I apologise for 'biting your head off', can you put it down to frustration with the situation we find ourselves in. You'd made a lot of comments in recent days about what foras is and isn't doing, most of it was inaccurate. If you'd started by asking 'what are Foras doing' rather than stating 'FORAS are doing nothing' you would have gottena friendlier answer.

I see first hand what people are putting into this and it's far from easy, especially when the bulk of it is outside of our control.


im happy and sad, because i know there were fans who did there best to help, but at the same time you cant expect the club to survive when its being run the way it is, and i feel sorry for the fans cause they have no control over it,

we were lucky enough to keep our club and its history intact, so im fairly happy down here, and if ye do form a new team next year ill look forward to playing ye,
That we can agree on.

[oriel]

So what is the update on this.

1pm on Wed, which gives CCFC, a full day and half to raise the money.

Is this looking likely ?

[Marco]

wow so your supporting an organisaition that has actually contributed NOTING to your club, you club that is now gone,

if they didnt help out during the examinership process (probably the biggest issue in CCFCs History), and they gave no support what to speak of to the club, exactly WTF do they do,

Why would FORAS hand over money that they can put to better use? If they gave this money to Coughlan that would be it for them, at least they are doing what Coughlan should have done himself when he took over and be a little carefull first and like a previous comment done what Drogheda had to do and scale things down. From what I see FORAS were clever not to hand over money they broke their backs to raise when it would be just whittled away and no end result. At least now if the club goes to the A league they will have funds to cover them unlike others.

[tippex]

The players are due to be paid today afaik.
Has anyone heard if they have been paid.

As I said before the best and only outcome for cork now is for them to be wound up on friday and foras then set-up a new club properly run.

Have Foras been in touch with the FAI about the possibility of doing this?
It is in every clubs best interest that Foras get a sustainable well run club together.

[BrayUnknowns]

Bonuse's of €1000 per goal and €500 a clean sheet under the guildance of arkraga.

Saw this myself, so if Doolin's comments are true then i reckon a lot of sympathy will be los for Cork's demise.

Shocking if true, what Irish club has that type of money to pay out on a weekly basis in bonus payments ?

[micls]

Have Foras been in touch with the FAI about the possibility of doing this?


FORAS have, and are continuing to, explore all the options.

We also have a good relationship with the FAI and are in fairly regular contact

[Schumi]

Saw this myself, so if Doolin's comments are true then i reckon a lot of sympathy will be los for Cork's demise.
I don't think many had sympathy for Coughlan and how the club was being run. People's sympathy is for the fans who have lost their club.

[derm]

FORAS isn't a supporters club, it's a legally registered industrial and providental society, a not-for-profit limited company with directors bound by Irish Company Law. I wasn't talking about getting money back.

And may I add that what their reason for being is to build up enough money and experience to enable the fans to one day own and run CCFC. A goal that Coughlan publicly stated he shared but he had very few dealings with Foras when he found out they
weren't going to give him money anytime he wanted it.


Why would FORAS hand over money that they can put to better use? If they gave this money to Coughlan that would be it for them, at least they are doing what Coughlan should have done himself when he took over and be a little carefull first and like a previous comment done what Drogheda had to do and scale things down. From what I see FORAS were clever not to hand over money they broke their backs to raise when it would be just whittled away and no end result. At least now if the club goes to the A league they will have funds to cover them unlike others.

To my knowledge Coughlan did not and has not even contacted Foras about getting money to pay the tax debt. Instead he tried to launched his own initiative by selling shares to allow fans to own the club, no doubt with him as largest shareholder.

I agree though, we should be fighting relegation not fighting for our existence.

[derm]

Saw this myself, so if Doolin's comments are true then i reckon a lot of sympathy will be los for Cork's demise.

Shocking if true, what Irish club has that type of money to pay out on a weekly basis in bonus payments ?

That was under the previous regime, Arkaga. Though no one really knows what system Coughlan has going.


I don't think many had sympathy for Coughlan and how the club was being run. People's sympathy is for the fans who have lost their club.

Having this hang over you not once but twice in as many seasons really rams home the difference between club and owners. The club is the players, fans, employees, volunteers and even businesses that rely on the club. Most of the criticisms are true, Arkaga and Coughlan ran the club in a totally reckless way and it's not fair on clubs who run themselves properly. But the biggest losers are those who have the least say in how the club is run.

[micls]

According to our forum, the players were told they are free agents as they werent paid today.

[The Betting Man]

According to our forum, the players were told they are free agents as they werent paid today.

It just gets worse for Cork City fans

[The Betting Man]

So what is the update on this.

1pm on Wed, which gives CCFC, a full day and half to raise the money.

Is this looking likely ?

There is more chance of Raheny Red being nice to Cork fans then there is off Cork City getting the money they owe

[tippex]

According to our forum, the players were told they are free agents as they werent paid today.

That's really ****e tbh. I'm not surprised if it's true. Feel really sorry for everyone down there.

[Mr A]

Better for them to be free agents now when they will at least have a chance to find another club.

[Mr A]

Hartlepool and Ipswich must be feeling pretty stupid about handing over fees right now!

[don ramo]

so is there game going ahead friday or not, will the players chance getting injured, now that there free agents,

[don ramo]

You asked if it was as an official entity to represent the club's interest's. FORAS were not representing the club with the examiner and the High Court. FORAS were an independent, affected third party. So no was the correct answer.



No, but no statement said he was the right man either, FORAS always made it clear that the choice was the examiners and FORAS would support and seek to work with whoever he chose.


FORAS isn't a supporters club, it's a legally registered industrial and providental society, a not-for-profit limited company with directors bound by Irish Company Law. I wasn't talking about getting money back.


I apologise for 'biting your head off', can you put it down to frustration with the situation we find ourselves in. You'd made a lot of comments in recent days about what foras is and isn't doing, most of it was inaccurate. If you'd started by asking 'what are Foras doing' rather than stating 'FORAS are doing nothing' you would have gottena friendlier answer.

I see first hand what people are putting into this and it's far from easy, especially when the bulk of it is outside of our control.


That we can agree on.

fair enough, thanks for clearing that up,

[corkharps]

Will Tom Coughlan now be banned from being a director of any company for x years?:confused:

[The Betting Man]

Will Tom Coughlan now be banned from being a director of any company for x years?:confused:

Think its a 5 year ban he gets

[Ezeikial]

According to our forum, the players were told they are free agents as they werent paid today.

What impact does "free agent" status have as regards the transfer window. Can other LoI clubs sign free agents after the transfer window closes?

I suspect that there is very little opportunity for most of these players anyway, with other LoI clubs before the close season. Sligo, Drogheda and Dundalk have been active in signing players in the window, and presumable are fully committed. Shamrock Rovers may have some capacity, Bohs have a transfer embrago and it is difficult to see any of the remainder of Derry, Galway, St Pats or Bray, having any signifcant means to sign new players.

[micls]

What impact does "free agent" status have as regards the transfer window. Can other LoI clubs sign free agents after the transfer window closes?
Yes, once they are free agents before the transfer window closes.

[passerrby]

maybe a silly question but could TC not give any monies he may have to Foras before the friday deadline that could be used in the future or is all the spoken for.

[Dodge]

maybe a silly question but could TC not give any monies he may have to Foras before the friday deadline that could be used in the future or is all the spoken for.


He had bank drafts ready at the court. Presumably revenue will hit him hard for these anyway

[don ramo]

What impact does "free agent" status have as regards the transfer window. Can other LoI clubs sign free agents after the transfer window closes?
id say therell be a problem with the players that signed for cork during the winter, as they cant play for a third club in the footballin year, could cause a few problems,

[razor]

He had bank drafts ready at the court. Presumably revenue will hit him hard for these anywaySomebody saw Coughlans legal team with some drafts after the court last Monday so presumably the revenue didn't take them then.

If we are wound up on Friday is there any onus on Coughlan to hand over what money he has?

can he walk away or will the liquidator get them?

[Mr A]

id say therell be a problem with the players that signed for cork during the winter, as they cant play for a third club in the footballin year, could cause a few problems,

The FIFA year runs July-July so they're fine.

[don ramo]

The FIFA year runs July-July so they're fine.

works out great for them so,

does anyone know if the game friday will go ahead

[Mr A]

Not a hope I think, CCFC will be wound up earlier in the day.

[sonofstan]

Would Bray consider playing the match as a friendly, so fans could have some kind of 'moment'?

[don ramo]

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/2266/

apparently its going ahead, being used to shows other clubs what kind of players are available,

and the players have defered there wages for a week, and that gives couglan and extra E120,000 to offer the revenue,
so, if he gives it to the revenue hows he gonna pay the players:confused:

[don ramo]

also isnt it a bit dodgy for both teams, especially if someone gets injured, bray have a the rest of the season to worry about, and the city players need new clubs, who gonna sign an injured player,

i really hope they have a friendly one,

[John83]

maybe a silly question but could TC not give any monies he may have to Foras before the friday deadline that could be used in the future or is all the spoken for.
His company is about to be wound up. If he transferred money out of it now, I would be surprised if he didn't go to jail for it.

[marinobohs]

Sad attitude.

The vasy majority of Cork City supporters are decent sporting fans.

Don't understand how any right minded LOI supporter could take satisfation in the loss of an important club like Cork City.

The demise of Cork City is on a totally different scale to Dublin City. We have a history and a generation that has grown up with the club. Dublin City was still in its infancy.:(

James has posted a great post on the City seciton http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=121601

honestly, how anyone can be happy about this situation beggars belief.
Following the demise of Cobh this now leaves the 2nd biggest city (and biggest county) in Ireland without a LOI team. An awful day for Irish football and especially for Cork fans. Hope they can regroup in some form in the future:(

[passerrby]

would bray be oblidged to play a game in this instance

[shep]

would bray be oblidged to play a game in this instance

Yeah,because what if a player got suspended(i know injured was already mentioned)

Ah hopefully by some miracle they will be around come Friday,a big points deduction and let them see out the season even with a team of youths...if for nothing else at least there would be revenue from gate reciepts for FORAS

[Joseph McSweene]

would bray be oblidged to play a game in this instance

Don't think they'd have to play it, but they possibly would. Might be interested in a few defenders from us considering the state of their defending in some games this season!:eek::o

[EalingGreen]

Following the demise of Cobh this now leaves the 2nd biggest city (and biggest county) in Ireland without a LOI team.
Certainly no LOI team, but Cork is not Ireland's 2nd biggest city. According to the 2006 Irish Census, the population figures are:

Cork City = 119,418
Metropolitan Cork = 274,000
County Cork = 481,295

By contrast, the latest population figures from NI are:
Belfast City = 267,374
Greater (or "Metropolitan") Belfast = 645,536.

By way of comparison, Belfast has four teams in the Irish Premier League (Glens, Linfield, Crues and Cliftonville), plus another (Donegal Celtic) in the Championship.




Hope they can regroup in some form in the future:(
Seeing as Belfast has too many teams, and Cork now has none, I'd be quite happy to let you have one of our spares for free.
"Cork True Blues" or maybe "Linfield Rebels" anyone? ;)


http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popofeachprovcountycity2006.htm
http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/factsandfigures/demographics.asp

[passinginterest]

Just to show that it's not only the League of Ireland that sees clubs go into liquidation: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/livingston/8174920.stm

Actually a few similarities, in that a new owner takes over, claims to have invested lots of personal money and continues to refuse to admit that all is lost.

[White Horse]

Certainly no LOI team, but Cork is not Ireland's 2nd biggest city. According to the 2006 Irish Census, the population figures are:

Cork City = 119,418
Metropolitan Cork = 274,000
County Cork = 481,295

By contrast, the latest population figures from NI are:
Belfast City = 267,374
Greater (or "Metropolitan") Belfast = 645,536.


I'd say he was referring to the country rather than the island.

[gufc2000]

What impact does "free agent" status have as regards the transfer window. Can other LoI clubs sign free agents after the transfer window closes?

I suspect that there is very little opportunity for most of these players anyway, with other LoI clubs before the close season. Sligo, Drogheda and Dundalk have been active in signing players in the window, and presumable are fully committed. Shamrock Rovers may have some capacity, Bohs have a transfer embrago and it is difficult to see any of the remainder of Derry, Galway, St Pats or Bray, having any signifcant means to sign new players.
If we can sell Jayo quickly, then we may be able to sign a replacement, but whether anyone from Cork wants to play part-time football in Galway is another days work. Seamus Conneely is wanted by Middlesbrough aswell so if both leave we are down to a squad of 16, so we would need 1 or 2 players

[EalingGreen]

I'd say he was referring to the country rather than the island.Fair enough.

Actually it was that although I've been to Cork, his post set me wondering about how big it is compared with Belfast.

And when I saw that Belfast is around twice as big, it then struck me as curious how Cork has struggled down the years to maintain even one senior club, whilst Belfast has so many*.

That's all really.

P.S. The offer to let the Cork take Linfield off our hands for free still stands! ;)

* - Late Edit: I forgot to mention Belfast Celtic, who were pretty massive in the day, plus Distillery used to be a decent-sized Belfast club, with a proud history, until they were effectively forced out of their Grosvenor Road ground in West Belfast by the Troubles/re-development, eventually re-locating to Lisburn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisburn_Distillery_F.C.

[Joseph McSweene]

If we can sell Jayo quickly, then we may be able to sign a replacement, but whether anyone from Cork wants to play part-time football in Galway is another days work. Seamus Conneely is wanted by Middlesbrough aswell so if both leave we are down to a squad of 16, so we would need 1 or 2 players

Billy Dennehy is from Kerry so he might be interested-especially with Kells Bells just having signed permenantly with ye. Don't know after that really-our front line was the weak part of our team, better to look at central midfield and defenders from our squad.

[White Horse]

And when I saw that Belfast is around twice as big, it then struck me as curious how Cork has struggled down the years to maintain even one senior club, whilst Belfast has so many.


GAA is very very strong, both hurling and gaelic football. Also the middle class types gravitate towards rugby.

It still is a bit of a mystery though. 5,000 fans isn't a lot in a city of that size.

As for Linfield, I'd swap them for Bohs.

[EalingGreen]

[Cork] GAA is very very strong, both hurling and gaelic football. Also the middle class types gravitate towards rugby.
Whereas GAA* in Belfast/Antrim has never been very strong and rugby, whilst reasonably popular, is still pretty much confined to the middle-class/Grammar school set, like Cork.

It's all a bit like Derry, tbh, which has always been a "football city", but nothing much for GAA, despite being predominantly Nationalist.

* - Hurling is strong in the Glens of Antrim, but that still only makes it a bit of a niche sport, tbh.


It still is a bit of a mystery though. 5,000 fans isn't a lot in a city of that size.
It all goes to reinforce for me the importance of history and tradition etc, as a factor in a club/city/region's success in sport. That is, you can't grow specific plants in the wrong soil.



As for Linfield, I'd swap them for Bohs.
We don't want a swap, we just want rid of them...;)

[Dunny]

Found this on the Cork forum. There was a FORAS meeting tonight.


Confirmed offer put in to purchase the club ,take over all debt -refused
Foras offer to take over the Club - refused

4 man consortium led by Danny Drew

[adamd164]

Beggars belief!

The club will now fold with him having rejected the bid from FORAS. He is a complete scumbag.

[sonofstan]

Found this on the Cork forum. There was a FORAS meeting tonight.

What's Danny Drew doing?!

[adamd164]

Drew was interested during examinership also and the club was not given to him. It was never going to be as the FAI don't want to deal with him.

The more relevant bit is that Coughlan turned down a recent FORAS bid. It shows up his "want to hand over the club to the fans" bull for what it is. He's out for himself and has always been. God knows what schemes he's got going, but guaranteed they're there. He is a shyster.

[sonofstan]

Let me see if this is right: Cork City Investments Ltd. will be wound up by order of Ms. Justice LaFoy on Friday morning if it - effectively Tom Coughlan - can't come up with 440k to pay the revenue. In that case, presumably a court appointed liquidator will move in and try and recover whatever assets it can in order to pay the company's creditors, with Revenue at the head of the list. At a guess, the company won't have anything like the requisite amount, and the revenue will go away with a small percentage of what is rightfully theirs (and therefore, ours).

Nevertheless, in the meantime, Coughlan is perfectly entitled to turn down an offer to take over the club, pay off the taxman and keep the thing going? Can the court order him to sell to a viable bidder? can the liquidator do the same?