View Full Version : Cork City denied a licence; club to be wound up; FORAS to enter First Division
longfordjames
18/08/2009, 11:02 PM
Cork City Football Club have announced that the much-anticipated friendly match against Celtic Football Club will take place on Wednesday, September 9th at Turner’s Cross.
The game will kick off at 7.45pm, and Peter Lawwell, Chief Executive Officer of Celtic Football Club, told CorkCityFC.ie that the Hoops are looking forward to their visit to Leeside: "We are very pleased to be visiting Cork, and we hope that the friendly match will assist Cork City in raising funds to secure the future of the club. Celtic Football Club has always had great support from Cork, and we sincerely hope that this match goes some way to aiding such a fantastic community asset continue their existence.”
"While a number of the squad will be on international duty and unable to take part in the match we will be sending as strong a squad as possible and will do all we can to make the match an occasion to remember."
Ticket details for the game will be announced shortly."
Hope a big crowd goes.I'm going th head anyway.We cannot lose a great club like CCFC and a Stadium like Turners Cross.Its a great opportunity to see futire Celtic Stars and help CCFC.
SMorgan
18/08/2009, 11:12 PM
I've got a good idea.
Why don't Cork let fans in to the match for free!!!
MariborKev
19/08/2009, 7:45 AM
We cannot lose and a Stadium like Turners Cross.
We're not talking about the lost city of Atlantis here......
tiktok
19/08/2009, 10:00 AM
We're not talking about the lost city of Atlantis here......
We may as well be, thousands of people who were in Turner's Cross on the night we won the League against Derry in 2005 haven't been able to find it since.
Hairy Bowsie
19/08/2009, 11:46 AM
Thats nothing on the same night we playing Deportivo in Lansdowne, roughly 22,000 thousand people went missing. There was talk of maybe they went back to Spain with the Deportivo team or of a mass alien abduction. It's just one of those mysterys.
Salmon Coloured
19/08/2009, 12:16 PM
We're not talking about the lost city of Atlantis here......
A lot of Cork people sound like their talking underwater.
passerrby
19/08/2009, 12:52 PM
We're not talking about the lost city of Atlantis here......
now there was a city worth saving
Has there ever been a mention of a points deduction for Cork over all this tax issue, court appearances and not paying full wages ?
I dont think it would be fair for them to be allowed compete in Europe if they finished 3rd or 4th after everything that has gone on.
John83
19/08/2009, 11:25 PM
Has there ever been a mention of a points deduction for Cork over all this tax issue, court appearances and not paying full wages ?
I dont think it would be fair for them to be allowed compete in Europe if they finished 3rd or 4th after everything that has gone on.
If everything's paid up at the end of the season, they'll be in the clear. To get a licence, they''ll need a tax clearance cert, and no wages owed.
Of course, they're subject to the 65% rule to, and who knows how they're doing there?
roinuj
19/08/2009, 11:43 PM
Thats nothing on the same night we playing Deportivo in Lansdowne, roughly 22,000 thousand people went missing. There was talk of maybe they went back to Spain with the Deportivo team or of a mass alien abduction. It's just one of those mysterys.
thats nothing, were still looking for the 49.000 who turned up in landsdown road to watch us play manchester united in 1968 :mad:
marinobohs
20/08/2009, 11:41 AM
Has there ever been a mention of a points deduction for Cork over all this tax issue, court appearances and not paying full wages ?
I dont think it would be fair for them to be allowed compete in Europe if they finished 3rd or 4th after everything that has gone on.
If they are in breach of any rules then I am sure the FAI will have to act. I am not sure they have broken any specific rules (just City supporters hearts) todate but as mentioned elsewhere they will be subject to licencing criteria and 65% rules which (if broken) could result in penalties applying.
thats nothing, were still looking for the 49.000 who turned up in landsdown road to watch us play manchester united in 1968 :mad:
Most of the 1 million people (approx) who were at Athlone v AC Milan went on
to become Shamrock Rovers supporting taxi drivers in Dublin!
:p
atfconline
21/08/2009, 12:21 PM
And they're just the ones who were behind the goal for that penalty!
A face
21/08/2009, 1:57 PM
Has there ever been a mention of a points deduction for Cork over all this tax issue, court appearances and not paying full wages ?
I dont think it would be fair for them to be allowed compete in Europe if they finished 3rd or 4th after everything that has gone on.
I think it would be fair
Umberside
21/08/2009, 2:00 PM
We never worked outside the rules so we should be given our place in Europe should we finish in those places.
MariborKev
21/08/2009, 2:11 PM
What part of not paying your taxes was legal exactly?
marinobohs
21/08/2009, 2:17 PM
What part of not paying your taxes was legal exactly?
What part of not paying your taxes is covered by the FAI rules ? Many, many teams have not paid taxes and to the best of my knowledge not incurred FAI sanction. There is a difference between the law of the land and the FAI rulebook (Thank God) and I am not sure that Revenue do points deductions ;)
tiktok
11/09/2009, 8:24 AM
Indeed, may as well sticky this thread!
Jesus H. Christ.
Even I didn't think it'd be this quick!
What a circus CCFC, and this league in general, has become.
Rumours are that CCFC face another winding up order, this time from a 'former player'.
Sam_Heggy
11/09/2009, 8:36 AM
Mental stuff, I suppose banking on bigger gates is pretty silly in the first place. I mean, the good will is draining from the club by the second and it's all down to one man at the end of the day.
Only option is for foras to apply to A League now for next season. Sad situation.
marinobohs
11/09/2009, 9:50 AM
Mental stuff, I suppose banking on bigger gates is pretty silly in the first place. I mean, the good will is draining from the club by the second and it's all down to one man at the end of the day.
Only option is for foras to apply to A League now for next season. Sad situation.
As cork do not own the ground and have no assets apart from the players can they "do a rovers" IE walk away from what they owe, appoint a new board and maintain a place in the Prem ? I think the rules may have altered since but am not sure (something I share with FAI/League admin :))
CuanaD
11/09/2009, 9:53 AM
You cant make somebody redundant unless you can prove you dont need them or anyone else to do the job theyre doing anymore afaik. Ie. if cork city make a midfielder redundant to cut the wage bill and then replace him with a player on amateur terms than thats grounds for unfair dismissal as cork city did actually need a midfielder they were just trying to cut costs. They would have to pay off the midfielders contract in full to release him.Exactly - they can't be replaced for something like 18 months I think
marinobohs
11/09/2009, 10:02 AM
Exactly - they can't be replaced for something like 18 months I think
There is no time limit on it, the matter can be referred to the Employment Appeals Tribunal under the Redundancy Payments Act (as stated redundancy applies to the job not the worker). In the event that a club replaced a player with a cheaper option it could be declared a non redundancy situation by the EAT.
This is far from cut and dried however (SEE Irish ferries / SIPTU case) and each case is examed individually.
Sam_Heggy
11/09/2009, 10:02 AM
As cork do not own the ground and have no assets apart from the players can they "do a rovers" IE walk away from what they owe, appoint a new board and maintain a place in the Prem ? I think the rules may have altered since but am not sure (something I share with FAI/League admin :))
I would say at best they would be allowed to re-enter into the A league but as you say, does the FAI have a set rule on this or can it be altered to suit?
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 10:13 AM
Yeah, licencing (allegedly) makes it impossible to be wound up and keep your spot in the Premier.
John83
11/09/2009, 10:39 AM
The case is different from Shams, who pretty much resemble Coughlan's Cork. If the company's actually wound up, they're gone from the Premier, barring some spectacular new FAI fudging.
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 10:40 AM
The case is different from Shams
True. It's the same as Cork in the mid-90s (among other Munster examples)
Schumi
11/09/2009, 10:45 AM
The case is different from Shams.
I think he was referring to previous cases of Rovers winding up holding companies and continuing in the league under a new holding company. I'm not sure of the details but this was the general jist of what happened as far as I'm aware.
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 10:47 AM
Think MB was specifically talking about the examinership in 2005.
Schumi
11/09/2009, 10:50 AM
Think MB was specifically talking about the examinership in 2005.
They didn't keep a place in the premier that year though. They lost the play off to Home Farm.
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 11:03 AM
They didn't keep a place in the premier that year though. They lost the play off to Home Farm.
That had nothing to do with "winding up holding companies and continuing in the league under a new holding company", as you put it, though.
Schumi
11/09/2009, 11:30 AM
That had nothing to do with "winding up holding companies and continuing in the league under a new holding company", as you put it, though.
Huh? :confused: I'm saying that in 2005 they didn't
walk away from what they owe, appoint a new board and maintain a place in the Premso I assume that that refers to a previous case of walking away from what they owe.
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 11:38 AM
They did maintain their place in the Premier, though. They played the whole rest of the season, in fact. If Cork were to be wound up now, they could (in theory) play no further games in the Premier this season. However, in the mid-90s, Cork were wound up, started a new company the next day and kept their place in the Premier as a result. That's not allowed now.
marinobohs
11/09/2009, 11:44 AM
They didn't keep a place in the premier that year though. They lost the play off to Home Farm.
true, but they lost the prem place on the pitch (they were not reegated). cork are unlikely to be relegated on the pitch. my question was has the rules changed to prevent a club "doing a Rovers" i.e. winding down one holding company and starting afresh and retaining their place in the Prem (this is not a dig at Rovers by the way just quoting an example - so save the hate mail !).
I think the rules may have changed since but am not sure of the position.
Schumi
11/09/2009, 11:45 AM
They did maintain their place in the Premier, though. They played the whole rest of the season, in fact.
Ah, of course, the examinership wasn't at the end of the season. I'd forgotten that.
I'm aware of the rule change on winding up holding companies and I assume they can't go into examinership twice. This seems to about a much smaller amount than the revenue one though so they'll probably get the money from somewhere and something else will blow up later.
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 11:49 AM
You'll remember they were docked all the points (8) that they had at the time, setting a precedent for docking Longford six points two years later.
Rumour on the Cork forum is that the "mystery loaner" - allegedly a married couple going under the name Frank And Irene - will allow the gate receipts from the Celtic friendly to pay this month's wages and the Farrelly bill, meaning Cork would be in debt to Frank And Irene to the tune of roughly the whole loan amount. And all this would come out of future prize money, and there's still two months of the season to go.
Only a rumour, obviously. But it's believable.
thischarmingman
11/09/2009, 11:51 AM
the "mystery loaner" - allegedly a married couple going under the name Frank And Irene - will allow the gate receipts from the Celtic friendly to pay this month's wages and the Farrelly bill, meaning Cork would be in debt to Frank And Irene to the tune of roughly the whole loan amount. And all this would come out of future prize money, and there's still two months of the season to go.
Only a rumour, obviously. But it's believable.
I'd imagine that would be filed under "Sound Business Plan" in more than a few boardrooms in Ireland.
Schumi
11/09/2009, 11:52 AM
Are the FAI not taking the Celtic money?
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 11:52 AM
Read over my post and watch me wink when I say Frank And Irene...
Schumi
11/09/2009, 11:55 AM
Read over my post and watch me wink when I say Frank And Irene...
:o I should read more closely.
It probably makes sense to these mystery people as they're more likely to get their money back if the club keeps going.
Sam_Heggy
11/09/2009, 11:57 AM
Are the FAI not taking the Celtic money?
Key is in the capital A in Frank And Irene.
It will be interesting to hear Cobh fans' take on it all.
tiktok
11/09/2009, 12:28 PM
Read over my post and watch me wink when I say Frank And Irene...
I can't believe that it needed explanation :D
Schumi
11/09/2009, 12:39 PM
I can't believe that it needed explanation :D
Me neither. :o
passerrby
11/09/2009, 1:12 PM
Im lead to believe that frank is building a new house so his family would not be happy with him lending out money to there poor relations down the road .
on a more personnel note ive heard irene is playing away from home
As a Cobh fan its fairly pityfull watching City down the years run themselves into mess after mess,the city has potential for a big club but need assets and thats their sticky point and it dont look like changing any time soon.If this latest story is true its sad on the players and staff at Cobh who got no such help and rightly so.
marinobohs
11/09/2009, 2:33 PM
You'll remember they were docked all the points (8) that they had at the time, setting a precedent for docking Longford six points two years later.
Rumour on the Cork forum is that the "mystery loaner" - allegedly a married couple going under the name Frank And Irene - will allow the gate receipts from the Celtic friendly to pay this month's wages and the Farrelly bill, meaning Cork would be in debt to Frank And Irene to the tune of roughly the whole loan amount. And all this would come out of future prize money, and there's still two months of the season to go.
Only a rumour, obviously. But it's believable.
If this were true would they not run into trouble under european rules for directly funding a club ? Not that I could see FIFA even glancing in the direction of the LOI.
if this latest plan is based on prize money Cork will soon have to win the Champions League (with a team of part time farmers from Midleton :D)
A N Mouse
11/09/2009, 4:35 PM
Im lead to believe that frank is building a new house so his family would not be happy with him lending out money to there poor relations down the road .
on a more personnel note ive heard irene is playing away from home
I heard Frank was getting a load of money from Mary, his bit on the side, who recently started at the BOI.
Magicme
11/09/2009, 4:37 PM
That would be some slap in the face.
tippex
11/09/2009, 6:48 PM
if it was true that frank and irene bailed out cork in this way would this not go totally aganst the rules etc and the participation agreement.
Also would there not be issues with other clubs and possible court action etc?
I'm making assumptions here as I have not seen the licensing documents nor the participation agreements (although I wonder if Frank And Irene have seen these either)
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