Cork City denied a licence; club to be wound up; FORAS to enter First Division [Archive] - Page 13

CSFShels

04/08/2009, 11:11 PM

CCFC won't be ceasing to exist, to use your own words, we'll be 'downsizing', we'll just be doing it mid-season, unlike other clubs.
If you've to drop out of the league this season, you're ceasing to exist imo, I'm well aware there'll be a similar entity, possibly even with the same name though. But its alot different from Drogs just having to slash the wage bill, and Shels just getting relegated.

tiktok

04/08/2009, 11:12 PM

The great, wise and noble tiktok

I'm also a dab hand in the kitchen.

micls

04/08/2009, 11:14 PM

If you've to drop out of the league this season, you're ceasing to exist imo, I'm well aware there'll be a similar entity, possibly even with the same name though.

There's a lot more to a football club than a senior team. Our senior team not playing football for the rest of the season, is by no means the end of our club.

But its alot different from Drogs just having to slash the wage bill, and Shels just getting relegated.

Of course its different.

Its not much different from when this happened to us in 1995 though. The holding company was wound up. The only difference this time is the licensing laws.

A premier license does not a football club make, and lack of one won't kill us either.

CSFShels

04/08/2009, 11:16 PM

There's a lot more to a football club than a senior team. Our senior team not playing football for the rest of the season, is by no means the end of our club.

Of course its different.

Its not much different from when this happened to us in 1995 though. The holding company was wound up. The only difference this time is the licensing laws.

A premier license does not a football club make, and lack of one won't kill us either.
Fair enough I suppose, but I'm sure you still get my point on how different it is to the other situations, and how it might be much quicker to ring alarm bells.

John83

04/08/2009, 11:16 PM

I'm also a dab hand in the kitchen.
Some say he has an airport in Russia named after him, and that he's terrified of ducks.

micls

04/08/2009, 11:18 PM

and how it might be much quicker to ring alarm bells.

Honestly, I dont know that it will, but I hope it does

dcfcsteve

04/08/2009, 11:34 PM

Sorry but although it is only the A championship but Cobh are still a League club

It's Intermediate level at best - not senior.

GalwayRed

04/08/2009, 11:37 PM

It's Intermediate level at best - not senior.
It dosent matter what level the teams are at its recognised by the FAI as being part of the league.

dcfcsteve

04/08/2009, 11:38 PM

The A Championship is the third tier in the league of ireland. Thats not non-league. Cobh are still a league side.

It may be the third tier - but that doesn't make it league/senior.

Just like the Conference/Blue Square Premier is the 5th tier in England, but is still non-league.

If the A league was league-proper, then it wouldn't have U21 teams from senior clubs in there compulsorily. It would also just be be called the Second division, rather than A Championship.

Hairy Bowsie

05/08/2009, 12:04 AM

Shels just getting relegated.

Demoted. Not relegated

GalwayRed

05/08/2009, 12:14 AM

It may be the third tier - but that doesn't make it league/senior.

Just like the Conference/Blue Square Premier is the 5th tier in England, but is still non-league.

If the A league was league-proper, then it wouldn't have U21 teams from senior clubs in there compulsorily. It would also just be be called the Second division, rather than A Championship.
The point being made is Cork still have a league of ireland side in the county.
The A Championship is part of the league of ireland otherwise teams couldnt be promoted to the league of ireland first division they would have to be elected into it.
When the English national conference started out it was non-league because no team that won it originally would be promoted to the 4th tier of english football. I think thats where it picked up the non-league tag.
Thats changed now and teams in the blue square can be promoted to the 4th tier. Therefore I would consider that part of the English national league and the teams in it to be league sides. I dont know if the Blue Square could technically be considered non-league I think it just never lost that tag.

Longfordian

05/08/2009, 12:32 AM

There's a football pyramid in England whereby you get promoted all the way up so in effect you'd have to go down about nine or ten tiers before you'd get to non-league by that definition.

dcfcsteve

05/08/2009, 2:03 AM

There's a football pyramid in England whereby you get promoted all the way up so in effect you'd have to go down about nine or ten tiers before you'd get to non-league by that definition.

You'd have to go below county level for example. In which case the English league would have a few thousand clubs :eek:. Instead - they always talk about the 92 league clubs.

Non league is short-hand for 'senior', and the A League ain't senior fotball.

pineapple stu

05/08/2009, 8:49 AM

There's a football pyramid in England whereby you get promoted all the way up so in effect you'd have to go down about nine or ten tiers before you'd get to non-league by that definition.
Non-league is the Conference; going down as far as you note (level 11 or so) is leaving senior football and going into intermediate football.

prince20

05/08/2009, 8:54 AM

Any chance of getting back on topic????????

The Betting Man

05/08/2009, 9:10 AM

What time are Cork backing court at?

eamo1

05/08/2009, 9:37 AM

Thye have until close of business today to get the rest of the money.Court case tomorrow morning.
Its here http://www.rte.ie/aertel/222-01.html

prince20

05/08/2009, 9:40 AM

What time are Cork backing court at?

From the way i have read this to now money must be lodged by 5 pm and the court will be sitting tomorrow to decide whether the club stays in Business or is wound up.

The Betting Man

05/08/2009, 10:03 AM

Cheers lads

GuisaSaigon

05/08/2009, 10:08 AM

What's the story? Do Cork have the money? All this "we're saved" talk is going to look fairly ridiculous otherwise.

Martinho II

05/08/2009, 10:13 AM

according to one of the papers today the prospects arent lookin good at all for cork city... the wages werent paid this week at all.. players are six weeks behind on payments.. I am not feelin confident about cork city tbh..:(:o

Mr A

05/08/2009, 10:20 AM

Aren't the players paid monthly so it's only really 2 weeks behind?

Also, I think the players agreed to a deferral of a week.

Certainly though even if CCFC keep going tomorrow it's very hard to see how they can hold it together for the rest of the year.

seand

05/08/2009, 10:30 AM

I don't really understand this Celtic friendly business. OK, the FAI said they'd run it and give the money straight to Revenue... but Revenue want their money, all of it, today. Are the FAI or Cork borrowing on the security of the Celtic friendly to get cash for today? Or are they just planning on giving Revenue whatever they've made from ticket sales so far?

If they do somehow get through today then there's the small matter of trying to pay players' back pay and wages for the rest of the season, with the Celtic money and FAI prize/TV money already gone to Revenue.

Another complication for City, I believe, is the fact (??) that no other league club can sign any of their players as we're now out of the transfer window.

Dodge

05/08/2009, 10:32 AM

AFAIK, they borrowed on the strength of the friendly

Oh and I think the players will have 2 weeks to find a club. Not 100% on this we definitely signed Paisley a couple of years ago outside the window after Longford didn't pay him

thischarmingman

05/08/2009, 10:49 AM

Another complication for City, I believe, is the fact (??) that no other league club can sign any of their players as we're now out of the transfer window.

They can sign free agents afaik, which the Cork players are now.

eamo1

05/08/2009, 10:54 AM

Yep,all Cork players are now considered free agents.How many players have they lost in the last few weeks.Behan,Healy,Kelly,who else???

prince20

05/08/2009, 10:55 AM

They can sign free agents afaik, which the Cork players are now.

They will only become free agents now if Cork go out of business. At the moment all players at the club cannot go anywhere as the transfer window closed on July 31st. the players that left done so prior to the close of the transfer window

sligoman

05/08/2009, 10:57 AM

They will only become free agents if Cork go out of business. At the moment all players at the club cannot go anywhereThey haven't been paid, they can leave now if they want.

thischarmingman

05/08/2009, 10:58 AM

They will only become free agents if Cork go out of business. At the moment all players at the club cannot go anywhere

The owner of Cork City FC Tom Coughlan has confirmed that the club's entire squad are now free agents and can leave at any time if they wish.

It follows discussions today between PFAI representatives, players and Coughlan.

The players have also agreed to defer payment of their wages, due today, until next Wednesday in order to help City's efforts to settle their substantial debts with the Revenue Commissioners.

The club is set to be wound up unless a last-minute solution can be found to the company's tax problems before Friday.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/coughlan-confirms-cork-players-are-free-agents-420608.html

prince20

05/08/2009, 11:00 AM

They haven't been paid, they can leave now if they want.

Dont think so as they agreed to defer their wages.

sligoman

05/08/2009, 11:00 AM

Dont think so as they agreed to defer their wages.They're still free agents.

jinxy lilywhite

05/08/2009, 11:21 AM

Free Agents: How can they be free agents if they are attached to Cork.

Does this not mean that If another club came in for them then CCFC would not ask for a price but mutually terminate their contract. If so then CCFC players can only go over to another jurisdiction whose transfer window is open and they can not sign for another loi side until a time when CCFC ceases to exist because then they will not be attached to CCFC because our transfer window is now closed.

Buile Shuibhne

05/08/2009, 11:26 AM

Oh and I think the players will have 2 weeks to find a club. Not 100% on this we definitely signed Paisley a couple of years ago outside the window after Longford didn't pay him

In previous cases such as Paisley, players who hadn't been paid in 2 weeks - or more particularly 2 pay periods - were free to sign for other clubs (breach of contract making them free agents)

Because Cork players are paid by the month - they may have to miss 2 pay months before becoming free agents?

Tom No Bobs saying that the player are free agents - before the transfer window closed - and the actual release of players by him afterwards, may be a different matter?

micls

05/08/2009, 11:31 AM

What's the story? Do Cork have the money? All this "we're saved" talk is going to look fairly ridiculous otherwise.

Yeah cos thats what we're worried about right now, looking ridiculous :rolleyes:

seand

05/08/2009, 11:33 AM

Tom No Bobs saying that the player are free agents - before the transfer window closed - and the actual release of players by him afterwards, may be a different matter?

This is all part of the confusion... Coughlan saying the players are free agents and free to leave is all well and good, but can they join another club?

AFAIK, they borrowed on the strength of the friendly

Another thought! What lender in their right mind is going to extend credit to a company who are in immense danger of folding within a couple of days? Or are the FAI guaranteeing the loan... surely not?

Dodge

05/08/2009, 11:43 AM

Excellent point Buile Shuibhne. Somethign I hadn't thought about.

GuisaSaigon

05/08/2009, 12:07 PM

Yeah cos thats what we're worried about right now, looking ridiculous :rolleyes:

Sorry, probably a bit late to be worrying about that alright! :(

Whats the latest from Leeside? Any word about whether Coughlan has all the money or not?

micls

05/08/2009, 12:08 PM

Sorry, probably a bit late to be worrying about that alright! :(

Whats the latest from Leeside? Any word about whether Coughlan has all the money or not?

No news. Coughlan seems to have gone into hiding.

prince20

05/08/2009, 12:29 PM

In previous cases such as Paisley, players who hadn't been paid in 2 weeks - or more particularly 2 pay periods - were free to sign for other clubs (breach of contract making them free agents)

Because Cork players are paid by the month - they may have to miss 2 pay months before becoming free agents?

Tom No Bobs saying that the player are free agents - before the transfer window closed - and the actual release of players by him afterwards, may be a different matter?

That was the point i was making but Sligoman doesnt want to believe it:eek:

Ronnie

05/08/2009, 1:17 PM

Any news, just over two hours to go.

micls

05/08/2009, 1:21 PM

Any news, just over two hours to go.

Nope.

Schumi

05/08/2009, 2:05 PM

Another thought! What lender in their right mind is going to extend credit to a company who are in immense danger of folding within a couple of days? Or are the FAI guaranteeing the loan... surely not?I'd assume that they'll only borrow the money if it'll be enough to save them. If they come up short, even with that money, they won't borrow it. There's still a substantial risk to the crowd lending them the money even if they do survive tomorrow but they'll be charging a high interest rate to make it worth their while.

dcfcsteve

05/08/2009, 2:20 PM

Any lender lending the FAI money on a friendly that has yet to actually be arranged for a club on the verge of being pout of business would be mad !

Think about it. How would you estimate the crowd for a Celtic-Cork friendly ? You may start by thinking - 'ah sure it'd sell out no problem'. But any amount of due diligence would militate against that.

City's friendly against Celtic last year wasn't a sell-out, and neither was Harps (from memory) - both of which have smaller stadia than Cork. There is no indication as to whether the full first team and any Celtic stars (do they even have any these days...? :o) would come over.

So if I was a lender I'd work out a conservative estimate of the likely attendance, divide it in half, take out a liberal estimate of expenses and then offer to lend the rest at a high interest rate with a very short repayment period.

Net - it'd be a low loan with a high cost. But beggars can't be choosers.

Ezeikial

05/08/2009, 2:28 PM

?
Or are the FAI guaranteeing the loan... surely not?

Any lender lending the FAI money on a friendly that has yet to actually be arranged for a club on the verge of being pout of business would be mad !

It is difficult to image anyone lending, even at a astrominical interest rate, unless there was a cast-iron guarantee. Assuming TNB does not qualify, where would a satisfactory guarantor / security come form?

Longfordian

05/08/2009, 2:40 PM

The money's been paid according to people on the ccfc forum that are usually well informed. See ye all back here in two or three months time.

blue til i die

05/08/2009, 2:49 PM

Statement on CCFC website:

CORK CITY FC is pleased to confirm that, as per the commitment made in the High Court on Friday last, it has settled its outstanding tax liability with the revenue commissioners in full.

The club will issue a more detailed statement in due course.