Robbie Keane

[Charlie Darwin]

he didnt tho he was a very good prem striker but never top class bracket that couldnt be argued. if he was he would still be with inter
Because Inter regularly hang on to strikers for longer than a decade?

[paul_oshea]

Skstu, im not so sure people outside of Ireland would say the same.

i had this argument with a few lads from work and they really didn't think he was. But some of that may be down to not actually knowing his records and stats. One when i mentioned he is only 3 away from bobby charlton was there are a lot more mickey mouse games around now, and how many has he scored in world cups? I used the latter as part of my argument, that that was the whole point he hasn't played in many, whereas his was its a lot harder to score in world cups, but keane had 4(3 + pen shoot out i like to count that as one!) in the only one he played in. The point about there being more friendlies and more non competitive games is a fair point though

[geysir]

I really miss your one liners, Paul.
One line is plenty, your argument can fit fine into the one line.

[Stuttgart88]

Bobby Charlton played for the world champions, Robbie Keane played for a poorly performing ROI side for the most part. Then again, Charlton was a midfielder! Robbie only played in one world cup, and in Japan, not England, and not when they decided to chamge the SF to Wembley from Everton(?) to suit the home team.

Robbie's been a flippin good player. You guys can all argue away over whether he was ever world class or not. Who cares?

He's left too many chances untaken for my liking but compensated by giving it all and being our best midfielder and attacker all at the same time. Robbie smashed our scoring record, a lot of the time playing ahead of the worst Irish midfield in my lifetime - maybe even Owls Fan's or Noely's. We hate losers in Ireland but Jaysus do we begrudge our winners too, unless they're horses.

[elroy]

What happens if RK bags a bucketload of games for WHam on the run in and WHam stay up?? Does the deal become permanent or is there scope for Spurs to take him back?

Considering how poor or at least average Defoe, Pav and Crouch have been this year, it is surprising that Robbie wasnt at least given a chance this season.

[paul_oshea]

I really miss your one liners, Paul.
One line is plenty, your argument can fit fine into the one line.

yes I over elaborate. But before some didn't seem to understand unless i completely explained/expanded on my point :)

From an Irish perspective, you can't beat robbie. He has missed some really gilt-edged chances and very important ones also, but overall there has been no comparison and it will be a long time before another one of his calibre.

[tetsujin1979]

next time, mention Charlton's record is bolstered with hat tricks against those giants of international football Luxembourg, Mexico, the US and Switzerland, also 6 goals against the North, 5 against Scotland and 5 against Wales
also, only 11 goals in World Cup/European Championship games, 5 of which came against Luxembourg
All here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Charlton#International_goals

[SkStu]

Skstu, im not so sure people outside of Ireland would say the same.

i had this argument with a few lads from work and they really didn't think he was. But some of that may be down to not actually knowing his records and stats. One when i mentioned he is only 3 away from bobby charlton was there are a lot more mickey mouse games around now, and how many has he scored in world cups? I used the latter as part of my argument, that that was the whole point he hasn't played in many, whereas his was its a lot harder to score in world cups, but keane had 4(3 + pen shoot out i like to count that as one!) in the only one he played in. The point about there being more friendlies and more non competitive games is a fair point though

to be honest i think Keanes stats speak for themselves - they dont require outside approval - and they all point to someone who is, by most definitions, world class.

[irishultra]

i wouldnt even call miroslav klose world class and look at his record in int. football. hes a good striker like and like keane is nothin more than that

[SkStu]

But he plays for Bayern! Theyre like a German Inter arent they! That seems to be your criteria - or is it just Inter Milan?

Klose is quite clearly world class by the way. Your definition is skewed.

[EastTerracer]

I don't always agree with Eamon Dunphy but in this case I wanted to upload his comments after the Andorra game in September because I agreed with every word he said in Robbie's defence.

eN1OdLFXTjY

[Charlie Darwin]

The irony of Dunphy talking about "a certain element in the media"!

[shakermaker1982]

If our 'other Keane' had said it there'd not have been a peep out of the papers about it or if they did it'd be put across as some sort of noble gesture. I'm with Tets on this one, I took it to mean to he'd stand aside without going into a strop. Bad turn of phrase alright but that's Robbie. He's always said he'd turn up as long as he's wanted, I think he was just reitterating it.

Robbie bashing is all the rage these days it seems, been like that since he went to Liverpool, make of that what you will....

I mean the regular haters on here. However the other Keane has plenty of enemies in the Irish media as well IMO (usually the pro Big Mick brigade).

[Stuttgart88]

I mean the regular haters on here. However the other Keane has plenty of enemies in the Irish media as well IMO (usually the pro Big Mick brigade).Will you be voting pro- or anti De Valera in the forthcoming election?

[DeLorean]

next time, mention Charlton's record is bolstered with hat tricks against those giants of international football Luxembourg, Mexico, the US and Switzerland, also 6 goals against the North, 5 against Scotland and 5 against Wales

I know you're only defending Keane's tally accumulated in friendlies and against minnows, but I don't really see much of an issue with the countries you've listed there. With the exception of Luxembourg, I don't think you could really consider any of them footballing minnows, granted Switzerland & the US would have been weaker in those days. The most impressive part of Keane's tally is that he'll probably manage to do what no English, or even British, striker has done and beat Charlton's 49. Fair enough, most English forwards would have more competition for their place, but when you consider the calibre of the likes of Shearer, Lineker, Sheringham, etc. it could be a remarkable achievement. An injury free Michael Owen would probably have smashed the record in fairness and Wayne Rooney could possibly still do it, doubtful though.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I mean the regular haters on here. However the other Keane has plenty of enemies in the Irish media as well IMO (usually the pro Big Mick brigade).

So other then that gob****e Cathal Dervan who do you mean?

[shakermaker1982]

So other then that gob****e Cathal Dervan who do you mean?

Dunphy haha! He's definitely got more enemies than Robbie.....

Scoring loads of goals for your national side doesn't necessarily make you world class in my book. Jon Dahl Tomasson, Jan Koller, Podolski (very good player but he's not top drawer), Pauleta of Portugal. The list goes on.

[DeLorean]

Scoring them for club and country, against the best teams and when they're most badly need does though I think. I remember a couple of seasons ago Keane scored against all of the big four at the time, Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea. He has got late and/or important equalisers against top teams when we've most needed them i.e. Germany, Spain, Italy and France. He's scored in two world cup playoff matches, one of which turned out to be the winner. Whether he is seen as world class beyond these shores or not is highly debatable, but everybody in this country should certainly see him that way.

[shakermaker1982]

World class for me is Eto, Torres, Drogba, David Villa, Tevez & Messi. Players who do it at the highest level (domestic, Europe and international) but are also consistent. Wayne Rooney is not world class (yet) IMO. People might view it differently. It's like when Andy Gray said England had 8 WORLD CLASS players at the 2006 World Cup. I couldn't stop laughing but hey maybe Andy was right!

[OwlsFan]

All semantics. Who cares if he's "world class" (whatever that means). He's ours and he scores and is 29th in the list of record international goal scorers. Never heard of the Iranian on top of the list mind you. Rubbing shoulders with David Villa and Schevchenko.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_international_association_football_goal_scorer s_by_country

[Drumcondra 69er]

Dunphy haha! He's definitely got more enemies than Robbie.....

Scoring loads of goals for your national side doesn't necessarily make you world class in my book. Jon Dahl Tomasson, Jan Koller, Podolski (very good player but he's not top drawer), Pauleta of Portugal. The list goes on.

Dunphy??? :) Give it a rest, he quite rightly criticised his management abilities but this is the man who once said to Bill O'Herlihy with a straight face on RTE that 'Roy Keane is right about EVERYTHING!'.

What do you define as World Class by the way and how many world class players has there ever been by your definition? How many World Class players are allowed at any one time?

[Serb]

Andy Gray said England had 8 WORLD CLASS players

Maybe he meant player in the "ladies man" sense. In that case, they had at least two world class players in John Terry and Wayne Rooney.

[tetsujin1979]

All semantics. Who cares if he's "world class" (whatever that means). He's ours and he scores and is 29th in the list of record international goal scorers. Never heard of the Iranian on top of the list mind you. Rubbing shoulders with David Villa and Schevchenko.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_international_association_football_goal_scorer s_by_country
He played against us for Iran in the play off for the 2002 World Cup, was probably their highest profile player at the time because he was playing in Germany

[cornflakes]

Maybe he meant player in the "ladies man" sense. In that case, they had at least two world class players in John Terry and Wayne Rooney.

Rooney isn't world class at that either, he had to feckin pay for a ride

[Kingdom]

I've searched back two pages, and the best can be said is that it's drivel. My complaint was that a rusty Robbie, the wrong side of thirty going a season without football would not be good for Ireland. He was off kilter against Slovakia (not taking into account the penalty). That could have been an off-day or the start of a greater malaise. He got a move, a good move for him, and a good move for Ireland, and he's scored already. That should keep him in good stead for the remainder of the campaign.

What does my head in here in the past while, is that debating the pro's and cons of a players situation and how it relates to the National team, opinions seems to be going to extremes and regular discussion breaks down.
It's very simple for me. Robbie Keane, playing regularily at club level, is an automatic pick for the National team, due to in part his great record with us (and it is a great record) but also because he won't lose any of his best facets as he gets older. He was never lightening fast, always tricky. And he always does well with a big barging centre forward*.

But, and it's a massive but, if he isn't playing regularily, and he hasn't been the past while, then his place comes under threat in the team,as it should (as every other position and player should), as it is a vital position. The threat intensifies when a player such as Shane Long starts to become more prominent and starts scoring freely. That is natural and that is right. I can understand pointing to Robbie's stats when he is playing regular football as an indicator as to why he's an auto pick, but to point to his stats when he isn't playing and hasn't been playing football for 9 months is about as relevant as pointing out Aldo's stats for Ireland.
Hopefully Robbie's move will put this debate to bed for now.

*Kevin Doyle has played that role tremendously well for us, and does not get half the credit he deserves for it. People point to his lack of goalscoring but that is very unfair. Doyler has scored good goals for us, and in his aerial ability is a commodity that we as a team are lacking in. Until Walters or Best start showing that they have what it takes to displace him on a regular basis then he's a sticky for me. A very undervalued player in my opinion

[Serb]

He played against us for Iran in the play off for the 2002 World Cup, was probably their highest profile player at the time because he was playing in Germany

Players playing in the Asian Confederation have skewed goal scoring stats because they play against such hopeless teams. Daei scored 4 goals in a 19-0 win over Guam, twice in a 17-0 win over the Maldives, 4 in an 8-0 win over Nepal and 5 in a 7-0 win over Sri Lanka. It looks like Iran regularly won by 6 goals or more during his time as a player.

Ireland on the other hand don't score very many goals at all. We've only won by more than one goal once in Trappatoni's tenure, and even our last two meetings against "Europe's worst team" San Marino only yielded 7 goals for and one against. Finland and Hungary both managed 8 goals in one game against them in the past couple of months.

That makes Keane's achievement all the more impressive in my book.

[Wolfie]

F*ck the stats. If you're not playing first team football for an extended period of time, your starting place on the national team is legitamately open to a challenge.

I've a lot of respect for Robbies achievements with Ireland but noone is bigger than the team.

[geysir]

So Wolfie, in your opinion, Robbie thinks he is bigger than the team?

Jesus is beyond weeping at this stage with the amount of utter drivel being uttered.

[dr_peepee]

Robbie Keane... Over rated and under rated in equal measure... We'll pine for him when he's gone but!!!

[osarusan]

So Wolfie, in your opinion, Robbie thinks he is bigger than the team?

There's no way you could objectively have concluded that was his point.

[shakermaker1982]

There's no way you could objectively have concluded that was his point.

Just about to post the exact same thing.

[KK77]

Did he support West Ham as a young fella anyone know? PMSL

[Stuttgart88]

I've a lot of respect for Robbies achievements with Ireland but noone is bigger than the team.That suggests to me that Wolfie thinks Robbie thinks he's bigger than the team.

I've a lot of respect for Geysir's achievements in Iceland but I hate perverts.

[DeLorean]

It suggests to me that management shouldn't pick Keane based on his reputation, but on his current situation. Nothing to do with how Keane feels himself.

[amaccann]

It's also worth suggesting that when you have a squad full of "untouchables" - ie, players who get picked no matter how poor their club form is (assuming they're even playing) - I can't see how that would improve morale. I'm sure they all get on as a squad, but I'd be surprised if the likes of Stokes, Long etc. don't feel a little frustrated that Keane gets the automatic nod, despite having an absolute torrid time at club level.

Yes, he's a loyal servant to Ireland (who isn't though in fairness?), he's our top scorer blah blah blah, but even Keane hasn't been quite able to rise above his club form while playing for Ireland. His rustiness has showed, and we shouldn't glorify some players above others.

[paul_oshea]

All semantics. Who cares if he's "world class" (whatever that means). He's ours and he scores and is 29th in the list of record international goal scorers. Never heard of the Iranian on top of the list mind you. Rubbing shoulders with David Villa and Schevchenko.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_international_association_football_goal_scorer s_by_country

according to that bobby charlton has 67?

berbatov and klose particularly record is very good as is villa. The thing is when you are in a top team you don't need to rely on one player, hence the goals are shared out. But robbie takes all our penos, and has been for years our only real source for a goal. I would say others like henry etc, would have plenty more had they been relied upon as heavily on as we do keane.

[paul_oshea]

I've searched back two pages, and the best can be said is that it's drivel. My complaint was that a rusty Robbie, the wrong side of thirty going a season without football would not be good for Ireland. He was off kilter against Slovakia (not taking into account the penalty). That could have been an off-day or the start of a greater malaise. He got a move, a good move for him, and a good move for Ireland, and he's scored already. That should keep him in good stead for the remainder of the campaign.

What does my head in here in the past while, is that debating the pro's and cons of a players situation and how it relates to the National team, opinions seems to be going to extremes and regular discussion breaks down.
It's very simple for me. Robbie Keane, playing regularily at club level, is an automatic pick for the National team, due to in part his great record with us (and it is a great record) but also because he won't lose any of his best facets as he gets older. He was never lightening fast, always tricky. And he always does well with a big barging centre forward*.

But, and it's a massive but, if he isn't playing regularily, and he hasn't been the past while, then his place comes under threat in the team,as it should (as every other position and player should), as it is a vital position. The threat intensifies when a player such as Shane Long starts to become more prominent and starts scoring freely. That is natural and that is right. I can understand pointing to Robbie's stats when he is playing regular football as an indicator as to why he's an auto pick, but to point to his stats when he isn't playing and hasn't been playing football for 9 months is about as relevant as pointing out Aldo's stats for Ireland.
Hopefully Robbie's move will put this debate to bed for now.

*Kevin Doyle has played that role tremendously well for us, and does not get half the credit he deserves for it. People point to his lack of goalscoring but that is very unfair. Doyler has scored good goals for us, and in his aerial ability is a commodity that we as a team are lacking in. Until Walters or Best start showing that they have what it takes to displace him on a regular basis then he's a sticky for me. A very undervalued player in my opinion

Kingdom, whatever about the other pages being drivel, you have just expanded on it. I think that was the jist of what most were saying...

[paul_oshea]

That suggests to me that Wolfie thinks Robbie thinks he's bigger than the team.

I've a lot of respect for Geysir's achievements in Iceland but I hate perverts.

So stutts, in your opinion, geysir is a pervert?

geysir will probably only get this one mind...

[tetsujin1979]

according to that bobby charlton has 67?
so fix it then
really bothers me when people complain about the accuracy of facts on a wiki page and then do nothing about it

[paul_oshea]

Who am i to correct wiki?besides I've work to be doing

[PatJR]

It's also worth suggesting that when you have a squad full of "untouchables" - ie, players who get picked no matter how poor their club form is (assuming they're even playing) - I can't see how that would improve morale. I'm sure they all get on as a squad, but I'd be surprised if the likes of Stokes, Long etc. don't feel a little frustrated that Keane gets the automatic nod, despite having an absolute torrid time at club level. .

Should Stokes & Long feel so hard done by? They have not proved themselves in the top tier in England, Robbie has, for years, and continues to. You don't toss aside a talent like Robbie Keane just because he's had a difficult time recently. The guy scored six goals in our last campaign and two already in the current one. I remember back around 2005 the popular consensus was that Stephen Elliot was the man and we didn't need Robbie anymore. The rush to administer the last rights on Keane's career is perplexing. Is he a world class, top tier striker....probably not, but he's still the best goal scorer we've got.

[OwlsFan]

Yes, he's a loyal servant to Ireland (who isn't though in fairness?), he's our top scorer blah blah blah, but even Keane hasn't been quite able to rise above his club form while playing for Ireland. His rustiness has showed, and we shouldn't glorify some players above others.

Who isn't a loyal servant? You are joking.

Keane is still the leading scorer with 2! When Robbie stops getting in to goal scoring positions, then it's time to drop him. He still has that unique talent of getting in to the right place at the right time. He hasn't been putting them away as much as before but hopefully with match practice that will come back.

As for those who say Doyle's position may be under threat, I doubt it as he wins so much in the air, he is made for Trap's tactics. The fight is between Long and Keane. I expect a lot of substituting to go on between these two unless we need a goal in which case Doyle will be called ashore.

[Duggie]

The fight is between Long and Keane.
there is no fight right now, keane is undroppable IMO. hes still our best player, hes still a brilliant player. FFS hes got 45 int goals, where would we have been all these years without him. Long is also good in the air and will score more. i think we should drop doyle for long right now.

[Kingdom]

Kingdom, whatever about the other pages being drivel, you have just expanded on it. I think that was the jist of what most were saying...

Sorry Pos, I'll try not to make that mistake again. I'll try but can't promise anything.

[Wolfie]

So Wolfie, in your opinion, Robbie thinks he is bigger than the team?

Jesus is beyond weeping at this stage with the amount of utter drivel being uttered.


That suggests to me that Wolfie thinks Robbie thinks he's bigger than the team.

I've a lot of respect for Geysir's achievements in Iceland but I hate perverts.

Not what I meant at all - now I know how Robbie feels!!

My point was that anyone who is not playing first team football on a continuous basis does not have a divine right to a starting place - therefore, noone is bigger than the team.

I wasn't personalising it to just Keane in that instance.

Feel free to apologise immediately.

Anyway, whatever perving Geysir has been upto in a Supermarket chain is a bit off topic, to be honest.

[amaccann]

[...]The rush to administer the last rights on Keane's career is perplexing. Is he a world class, top tier striker....probably not, but he's still the best goal scorer we've got.

I'm not in a rush to drop anyone, I'm just wondering aloud if some players might feel frustrated that they don't get their chance & that there's a clique of untouchables in the squad.
And as for proving yourself in the top tier - where does the likes of Paul Green or Paul McShane fit in?


Who isn't a loyal servant? You are joking.

No, I'm not. Yes there have been plenty of rent-a-paddies in the squad, but by and large "a loyal servant of Ireland" covers pretty much most of the squad down through the years & shouldn't be considered a unique quality.

[paul_oshea]

Not what I meant at all - now I know how Robbie feels!!

My point was that anyone who is not playing first team football on a continuous basis does not have a divine right to a starting place - therefore, noone is bigger than the team.

I wasn't personalising it to just Keane in that instance.

Feel free to apologise immediately.

Anyway, whatever perving Geysir has been upto in a Supermarket chain is a bit off topic, to be honest.

a vodoo doctor in a warm hot bath in a supermarket perving on women.

[PatJR]

And as for proving yourself in the top tier - ] where does the likes of Paul Green or Paul McShane fit in?

Right, I wouldn't have them in the starting lineup (or squad) either. At the same time they are not being included at the expense of a genuine top EPL player so it's not really a valid comparison.

[gastric]

A good article in the Indo today about Robbie. It 's reasonably well -written and not too sensational in what it says.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/robbies-record-speaks-for-itself-2527342.html

[paul_oshea]

I've always liked sweeneys articles.simple grounded west of Ireland man from gurteen.very fair article.I've said the Dublin thing tongue in cheek before but i think he has hit the nail on the head here.Irish people seem to empathise maybe a bit strong btw relate more to gaa country lads,throw in that they stayed at home and played at home there is more of relationship between player and ppl.a bit like the rugby.